#1 Edited by GrandSymbiote94 (11723 posts) - - Show Bio

Setup:

Deadshot is hired to assassinate the some random important person. When he gets to the rooftop to take the shot, his sniper rifle is shot out of his hand by Hawkeye who was assigned to protect the important person.

Location:

Hawkeye's the purple H, Deadshot is the red D, and Deadshot's target is the black X in the window.

Equipment:

Deadshot: 2 Cz 75's with 7 clips all together, and a P90 with 4 clips.

Hawkeye: Has his bow with 20 arrows, and a glock 17 with 10 clips.

Rules/win conditions.

Deadshot's pre and new 52 feats allowed.

Targets meeting lasts for 45 more minutes.

No Bfr.

Prep for Deadshot is 3 days but didn't know about Hawkeye being there.

The only knowledge they know about each other is that Hawkeye is an Avenger and Deadshot is a very dangerous assassin.

Deadshot can win if he kills the target before the meetings over, or kills Hawkeye.

Hawkeye wins if he can protect the target throughout the rest of the meeting, or subdue Deadshot.

Who wins?

Both pretty good huh? :D

#2 Posted by dondave (38885 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Hawkweye ftw

#3 Posted by GrandSymbiote94 (11723 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

Ultimate Hawkweye ftw

Care if I ask why? I thought people would give the edge to Deadshot.

#4 Posted by dondave (38885 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

Ultimate Hawkweye ftw

Care if I ask why? I thought people would give the edge to Deadshot.

He's like 616 Hawkeye on steriods

#5 Posted by GrandSymbiote94 (11723 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

He's like 616 Hawkeye on steriods

I know Ultimate HE > 616 HE, but how exactly does he beat Deadshot who has near perfect accuracy blindfolded?

#6 Edited by nickzambuto (14885 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Hawkeye is much better in terms of raw accuracy; nothing tops nailing Ghost Rider from a mile away with an RPG. I also think he has a better record against more agile/reflexive characters (such as Ultimate Black Widow, whereas Deadshot can never seem to tag Batman). The only area I think Deadshot has the edge is in draw speed.

Even if we assume both are equal marksman, Hawkeye has been trained extensively and should be a smarter, more skilled fighter. He also has the physical edge by a mile if that counts for anything.

Ultimate Hawkeye should win more times then not if you ask me. Deadshot has fought against Green Arrow, a similar bow using character but with inferior feats to Clint, and only ever managed to stalemate him IIRC.

#7 Posted by dondave (38885 posts) - - Show Bio

@grandsymbiote94: His accuracy is good enough that it allowed him to hit Ghost Rider when he was a mile away with an RPG, which wouldn't allow for the kind of accuracy he could achieve with a bow, he shouldn't have any trouble hitting Deadshot with his ordinary arrows. He can turn anything int a weapon, as you've already shown he can use his fingernails as projectiles but he has also used kitchen utensils, a pen and pieces of glass as projectiles.

#8 Posted by GrandSymbiote94 (11723 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@grandsymbiote94: His accuracy is good enough that it allowed him to hit Ghost Rider when he was a mile away with an RPG, which wouldn't allow for the kind of accuracy he could achieve with a bow, he shouldn't have any trouble hitting Deadshot with his ordinary arrows. He can turn anything int a weapon, as you've already shown he can use his fingernails as projectiles but he has also used kitchen utensils, a pen and pieces of glass as projectiles.

O__O That's really impressive. But I would still think it over a little bit on how I set up the battle. (I'm not trying to make too one sided btw) Hawkeye has to protect the target while holding off Deadshot who has under stress took out a target (even though he missed the kill shot, hit him regardless) while being attacked by Batman. Also Hawkeye has to subdue him or hold him off.... Oh wow it does sound like I tried to make a spite thread, lol. But anyway Deadshot has also used other utensils as weapons as shown in the scan above, to top it off he's also tactical, agile, and has a aim comparable to Hawkeye. All I am saying is he has good odds of winning.

#9 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

Is Ultimate Hawkeye a bullet timer? if not, i don't see him taking this one.

#10 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Hawkeye

Next we will look at Hawkeye. Ultimate Clint is the Ultimate Universe Bullseye and Hawkeye combine. He has a very loose set of morals, convicted murderer, and one of SHIELD's best Black Ops agents. His motto is "I never miss a shot." He really fits that description. He also has actual Super Human powers from SHIELD tampering.

Lets get this underway.

Super Sight and Twitch Factor

Clint has 2 unique powers, Super Sight and Twitch Factor.

These scans describe fully what his abilities are. It allows him to Obtain Incredible Accuracy.

This Combo extends to close combat.

1-2) Targets the Tooth with the Homing Tracker Device.

3) Takes down Omega Level Mutates with one move.

Extends to throwing weapons.

1) Pen through Interrogation Glass.

2) Kitchen Utensils.

3) Throwing Cards.

4) Glass.

Accuracy with inaccurate weapons.

Like this impossible mile shot distance at a target moving over 100 MPH. With a RPG!

Also it allowed HE to perform the infamous Fingernail of Death scene.

Killed a room of body armored foes with his Finger Nails!

It also applies to his skill.

As shown here with catching up to Cap, using his parachute, then guiding them both down safely.

Speed

This Twitch Factor also allows for rapid firing attacks with the bow.

1) 3 Shots near instant of each other.

2-3) Notice the 3-4 arrows right behind and inches from the next. Arrows from a compound bow can travel up 400 FPS! That is insanely fast to knock and loose that many arrows at a time.

Clint's speed is not always in the Twitch Factor. He simply moves real fast.

1-2) Out of 200+ SHIELD agents, HE was th only one with speed to get to the safest place with only 2 seconds to spare before this bomb blew, saving another agent too.

3-5) HE with guns to his head kills a room full of baddies.

6) Standard Bullet dodging from the Korean Military.

7-8) Black Widow is super human enhance with Speed, Agility, and all that jazz. She could not dodge any of HE's shots. She is not even injured in this hospitable, she was trying to lay low!

Skill

HE is also a very skilled Tactician.

He is Furies right hand man and leads all the Black Ops teams for Shield. As well co led the Ultimate Avengers.

Gear

HE uses his Bow, but also relies on Guns alot too. Other than Bullets he uses Trick Arrows.

1) Adamantium Tip Serum Arrow.

2-3) Explosive Arrow Heads.

4) Flash Bang Arrow.

5) Grapple Line Arrow.

6) The famous Nuke Arrow.

7) Bola and Taser Arrow.

8-9) Tranq Arrow.

Not to say HE normal Arrows are not clearly Superhuman piercing.

1) Arrow pierces Echantress Asgardian Durability, all Asgardians have shown incredible durability to slashing and piercing weapons.

2) Captain Britain suit wearing Liberation. Need I say more?

On top of this HE also has also used Tranq Bullets.

Tranq Bullets that are capable of KOing Ultimate Cap of all people.

Battles

Now we will look at Battles.

HE puts down Hulk.

HE One Shots Kraven.

HE takes out Toad and Rogue.

HE unarmed kills most of these Rogue SHIELD agents while shot up.

HE battles a Venom Clone Cyborg with mix results.

HE having fun shooting up Multiple Man.

HE's ultimate showing in skill vs non other than Ultimate Spider Man himself. HE wins.

HE survives a Ambushing Sabertooth.

HE's rematch with Sabes lol. Great Showing of Accuracy as Sabes is struggling on top of Angel.

HE throwing Giant Men of their game till SHIELD hits him and his ride with a Neural Blaster.

HE vs Italian Mob!

Another of HE's best showings. here Clint takes on 3 Omega Level Mutates. The red one alone ripped a Helicarrier in half Magneto Style. HE beats all 3 of them while starting of Unarmed!

HE waltzes thru Korean Army like nothing with his SHIELD team in tow!

Over and all Ultimate Hawkeye is by far one of the baddest characters in the Ultimate Verse.

#11 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I swear I made that FF7 Respect forum purely for the copy/paste convenience when using those characters...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#12 Posted by jashro44 (25325 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto:

I also think he has a better record against more agile/reflexive characters (such as Ultimate Black Widow, whereas Deadshot can never seem to tag Batman).

Deadshot has tagged batman before and he does pull his shots on batman. He also has tagged deathstroke (all though the bullet bounced off Slade because of deathstrokes promethium armor).

#13 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@cadencev2: I swear I made that FF7 Respect forum purely for the copy/paste convenience when using those characters...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Pretty much :) Hate uploading hours worth of scans again or searching my past threads for them.

#15 Edited by ThexX (1576 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Hawkeye wins.

#16 Posted by GrandSymbiote94 (11723 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

#17 Edited by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Ultimate Hawkeye. All the feats counted for, he should be able to hold Deadshot off. Hell, I don't see why he couldn't incapitate Deadshot.

#18 Posted by jashro44 (25325 posts) - - Show Bio

I think this is closer then most are saying. Deadshots objective is easier to achieve as all he has to do is shoot the target. Unless the target can dodge bullets then I don't know what ultimate hawkeye can do to stop the bullet from reaching him. Reflexes are pretty even IMO as deadshot tags speedsters and stalemates enhanced humans like deathstroke in quick draws, where as ultimate hawkeye has the whole twitch factor thing. Deadshots armor does give him some protection against bullets.

To be honest I think in this scenario deadshot wins. I think he can shoot the target. Could be hard if ultimate hawkeye keeps him pinned behind cover but I think its doable.

#19 Edited by nickzambuto (14885 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@nickzambuto:

I also think he has a better record against more agile/reflexive characters (such as Ultimate Black Widow, whereas Deadshot can never seem to tag Batman).

Deadshot has tagged batman before and he does pull his shots on batman. He also has tagged deathstroke (all though the bullet bounced off Slade because of deathstrokes promethium armor).

Out of their 15 thousand encounters over the years, Deadshot shot Batman like, twice. I know he's supposed to pull his shots, but that doesn't prove anything if he still doesn't have the feats. In his fight with Deathstroke, Slade was just sorta standing there, he was more focused on returning fire then dodging. He probably knew his armor would protect him.

Deadshot is certainly quicker than Hawkeye on the draw, but he doesn't have the skill or training to time and plan his shots like Clint Barton does. Deadshot's goal in this scenario is just to take out his target, but that'll be pretty difficult when he's pinned behind cover. His main priority should be to handle the guy firing explosive arrows at him; if Deadshot goes for his target instead, that should give Hawkeye his chance to kill him, so even though Deadshot completes his mission, I don't think we can count it as a win since he'll probably be dead.

#20 Posted by entropy_aegis (15434 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Um no just no,I dont know who wins but your assessment of Batman and Deadshot is inaccurate.Likewise I also see Cap blocking his projectiles in one of those scans so it's not like as if he's unmissable.

#21 Edited by nickzambuto (14885 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Um no just no,I dont know who wins but your assessment of Batman and Deadshot is inaccurate.Likewise I also see Cap blocking his projectiles in one of those scans so it's not like as if he's unmissable.

My assessment is perfectly accurate; Hawkeye has better feats than Deadshot so therefore he wins. The projectiles Hawkeye shot at Cap were dead on target, Cap was just fast enough to block them. That's not a strike against Hawkeye's marksmanship, he was held back by his weapon's speed and that's it. He's shown on numerous other occasions the skill to time and plan his shots to trap opponents who would normally move too fast to be shot, something Deadshot has not displayed.

#22 Edited by JadenYuki (49 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye wins he has awesome accuracy.

#23 Posted by jashro44 (25325 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto:

Out of their 15 thousand encounters over the years, Deadshot shot Batman like, twice

Deadshot has shot batman multiple times and they haven't had that many encounters as you are saying they have had.

I know he's supposed to pull his shots, but that doesn't prove anything if he still doesn't have the feats.

He does have the feats though....He has tagged speedsters, deathstroke, and he had a barrel of his gun to captain boomerangs face. He also shot mister miracles aerial disks (Mister miracle is also a speedster).

Just to give you an idea how impressive shooting miracle disk is here you go:

The guy catching the bullet is orion...The guy dancing around orion is mister miracle (they are both portrayed as speedsters even). He isn't even using his aerial disks.
Shooting miracles Ariel disks.

All though my main point of bringing up deadshot pulling his shots is that I don't think deadshots fights with batman should be considered showings against him. I don't think he could beat Bruce for a majority if he went for the kill but he would be give Wayne problems.

In his fight with Deathstroke, Slade was just sorta standing there, he was more focused on returning fire then dodging. He probably knew his armor would protect him.

Deathstorke was hurt and it isn't exactly Slades character to tank bullets. He always dodges them. Besides you brought up ultimate hawkeye tagging ultimate black widow and she was just getting out of a hospital bed....

Deadshot is certainly quicker than Hawkeye on the draw, but he doesn't have the skill or training to time and plan his shots like Clint Barton does.

He set captain boomerang up and to put his gun against boomerangs face. That shows some good anticipation.

Right where he wanted boomerang to go...

Deadshot's goal in this scenario is just to take out his target, but that'll be pretty difficult when he's pinned behind cover.

Deadshot has the ability to ricoshet bullets so he can to an extent work around the cover. If he does get pinned. Deadshot has some decent agility and you yourself have said that deadshot is quicker on the draw so this is assuming that Hawkeye isn't the guy to dive for cover first.

His main priority should be to handle the guy firing explosive arrows at him; if Deadshot goes for his target instead, that should give Hawkeye his chance to kill him, so even though Deadshot completes his mission, I don't think we can count it as a win since he'll probably be dead.

The OP seems to have labeled gear in the OP and I don't see mention of explosive arrows. I was assuming those were regular arrows. I don't think deadshot will die. If ultimate hawkeye had his standard gear I would agree he would win but I think this is a lot closer then most are saying.

#24 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Actually the OP poster is either Bias or un informed of Ultimate Hawkeye. Without his Trick Arrows, this is in favore of Deadshot for sure.

#25 Posted by jashro44 (25325 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Actually the OP poster is either Bias or un informed of Ultimate Hawkeye. Without his Trick Arrows, this is in favore of Deadshot for sure.

He has limited both there gear to make it more even I believe. Personally I think its more even without the trick arrows, that gives ultimate hawkeye a bit to much versatility for deadshot to deal with IMO. Seems like they both only have a few guns in this scenario.

#26 Posted by GrandSymbiote94 (11723 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Actually the OP poster is either Bias or un informed of Ultimate Hawkeye. Without his Trick Arrows, this is in favore of Deadshot for sure.

I actually thought Hawkeye would have too easy of an win if I give him trick arrows. :/

#27 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: @grandsymbiote94: Here the thing, and this is real life military teachings as well.

Killing a target > Protecting a Target.

It is far easier to set and kill a target than for someone to locate the assassin and protect the target.

#28 Edited by jwalser3 (5279 posts) - - Show Bio

Able to tag a speedster.

Blindfolded

I mean he's the reason why Batman isn't dead. And he is the DCverse best marksman.

He's been able to hit GR arrows mid air and able to take out the string in his bow. I don't see why this couldn't happen to Ultimate HE.

#29 Edited by GrandSymbiote94 (11723 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: @grandsymbiote94: Here the thing, and this is real life military teachings as well.

Killing a target > Protecting a Target.

It is far easier to set and kill a target than for someone to locate the assassin and protect the target.

But he doesn't have to locate him. I've set it up to where he got the drop on him.

#30 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@grandsymbiote94: Ah I see it in the mini story in the OP. Well in that case it is more even. Deadshot in no way can kill the target without being killed.

Also as much I love CZ 75s as handguns, Hawkeye with guns is very dangerous more so than he is with a bow.

#31 Edited by GrandSymbiote94 (11723 posts) - - Show Bio

@grandsymbiote94: Ah I see it in the mini story in the OP. Well in that case it is more even. Deadshot in no way can kill the target without being killed.

Also as much I love CZ 75s as handguns, Hawkeye with guns is very dangerous more so than he is with a bow.

Cool. :D

Me personally still thinks DS has a shot here. As shown in the scans above he is also very dangerous with pistols regularly and was able to shoot GA's arrows out of the air. Also while being attacked by Batman he was able to do this:

#32 Edited by nickzambuto (14885 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@nickzambuto:

Out of their 15 thousand encounters over the years, Deadshot shot Batman like, twice

Deadshot has shot batman multiple times and they haven't had that many encounters as you are saying they have had.

I know he's supposed to pull his shots, but that doesn't prove anything if he still doesn't have the feats.

He does have the feats though....He has tagged speedsters, deathstroke, and he had a barrel of his gun to captain boomerangs face. He also shot mister miracles aerial disks (Mister miracle is also a speedster).

Just to give you an idea how impressive shooting miracle disk is here you go:

The guy catching the bullet is orion...The guy dancing around orion is mister miracle (they are both portrayed as speedsters even). He isn't even using his aerial disks.
Shooting miracles Ariel disks.

All though my main point of bringing up deadshot pulling his shots is that I don't think deadshots fights with batman should be considered showings against him. I don't think he could beat Bruce for a majority if he went for the kill but he would be give Wayne problems.

In his fight with Deathstroke, Slade was just sorta standing there, he was more focused on returning fire then dodging. He probably knew his armor would protect him.

Deathstorke was hurt and it isn't exactly Slades character to tank bullets. He always dodges them. Besides you brought up ultimate hawkeye tagging ultimate black widow and she was just getting out of a hospital bed....

Deadshot is certainly quicker than Hawkeye on the draw, but he doesn't have the skill or training to time and plan his shots like Clint Barton does.

He set captain boomerang up and to put his gun against boomerangs face. That shows some good anticipation.

Right where he wanted boomerang to go...

Deadshot's goal in this scenario is just to take out his target, but that'll be pretty difficult when he's pinned behind cover.

Deadshot has the ability to ricoshet bullets so he can to an extent work around the cover. If he does get pinned. Deadshot has some decent agility and you yourself have said that deadshot is quicker on the draw so this is assuming that Hawkeye isn't the guy to dive for cover first.

His main priority should be to handle the guy firing explosive arrows at him; if Deadshot goes for his target instead, that should give Hawkeye his chance to kill him, so even though Deadshot completes his mission, I don't think we can count it as a win since he'll probably be dead.

The OP seems to have labeled gear in the OP and I don't see mention of explosive arrows. I was assuming those were regular arrows. I don't think deadshot will die. If ultimate hawkeye had his standard gear I would agree he would win but I think this is a lot closer then most are saying.

All those scans support my statement of Deadshot's speed being superior, but him lacking the tactical sense to make full use of that speed. Mister Miracle's disk is definitely super fast, but it's not like the thing had much maneuverability. It was just going in a straight line towards Floyd, he didn't need to think or aim that carefully to hit it, just shoot really fast. Not like it isn't an incredibly impressive showing, but in a shootout on mutual ground, with even marksman, skill and wit is what will determine the outcome. Hawkeye has been trained, he knows how to react when under fire, and he knows when it's best to either stay behind cover, or when it's the right time to pop out. That's how someone like Punisher alone can kill a room full of gangsters; they shoot blindly, without thought. He plans and thinks and surprises. The same applies here. If they were in a wild west quickdraw duel, Deadshot would certainly have the advantage, but in this scenario, Hawkeye wins.

When Floyd "fought" Captain Boomerang, there wasn't much strategy implemented. Deadshot just shot at him over and over and missed every time. Captain Boomerang eventually decided to try and punch Deadshot, and it was his speed that allowed him to get the gun up before Boomerang could reach. IMO Deadshot is one of the fastest guns in comics, and it's that trait which allows him to do things like shoot Miracle's disks out of the air and tag speedsters. But he has never shown the gun skill to time his shots and trap an opponent, who would normally be too fast to hit.

Off topic, but that's why I believe Punisher to be the greatest gun handler in possibly all of comics - no one else has displayed the combination of accuracy, reaction time, and tactical sense that he has. There are plenty of people faster than him, but they can't aim like he can. Likewise, plenty of characters have better aim than him, but they don't think like he does. And so on.

EDIT: I hadn't taken into account Deadshot's ability to ricochet though. That certainly changes things.

#33 Posted by entropy_aegis (15434 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Like I mentioned before,I have no idea who wins this one and this is due to my very limited(almost non existent knowledge on Ult Hawkeye).But I have plenty of knowledge on Batman and Deadshot and your assessment on them is completely WRONG,so at least have the decency to admit that you're wrong or ignorant like I have.The encounters between Post Crisis Deadshot and Batman have made it clear that Deadshot pulls his shots and he has beaten Batman twice.Batman has only 1 victory over him and in that fight Batman beat him to the draw,that's why he won(there was no actual fight). The remaining fights were inconclusive or were circumstantial (Batman tampering with Deadshots guns beforehand).

#34 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: BS. Ultimate Hawkeye never misses. He proves as much with Guns, RPGS, Arrows, Finger Nails.....

In regards to Punisher comment.

#35 Edited by nickzambuto (14885 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: BS. Ultimate Hawkeye never misses. He proves as much with Guns, RPGS, Arrows, Finger Nails.....

In regards to Punisher comment.

Yes, but he can't fire at Punisher if he's hidden behind cover or sneaking up from the shadows. It's these skills that make Punisher unbeatable in a gunfight.

#36 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: True, however if he shows his face in Clints sights, it is over. Punisher is best as a Master Prep Artist IMO.

#37 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (7024 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye has my vote.

#38 Posted by nickzambuto (14885 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: True, however if he shows his face in Clints sights, it is over. Punisher is best as a Master Prep Artist IMO.

I don't think Punisher can really be "the mastermind" type character. He's better on the field, thinking tactically on-set. Not plotting every move in advance before the fight even starts like Batman. If he fought Ultimate Hawkeye, he'd figure out after the first arrow is shot that he's outmatched. So instead of just shooting, he'll lay low, sneak around, lob a grenade or two for distraction, lure Clint into thinking he's got him pegged, then boom Punisher pops out of a trashcan and nails Hawkeye from behind.