Deadshot and Catman vs Vulture and Falcon

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XiiX

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#1  Edited By XiiX
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dondave

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Team 1

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juiceboks

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#3  Edited By juiceboks  Moderator

Floyd solos.

EDIT: Don't know much about New 52 Deadshot..so I can't speak for him.

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bigcimmerian

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Catman beats all 3.

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XiiX

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@bigcimmerian: What?

Catman would get a bullet between the eyes before he could lick himself(if Floyd were serious about it).

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bigcimmerian

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#6  Edited By bigcimmerian

@xiix said:

@bigcimmerian: What?

Catman would get a bullet between the eyes before he could lick himself(if Floyd were serious about it).

Catman slashes his throat before Floyd reacts.(if Tomcat was serious about it).

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nickthedevil

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Having read the entire secret six run, I'll be bias and say Floyd and Blake take it easily.

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XiiX

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#8  Edited By XiiX

@bigcimmerian:

Assuming there's any distance between them, meaning enough to point a gun, Floyd's faster on the draw than Catman would be closing the gap.

A large part of why he even misses as much as he has is due to CIS(generally not shooting to kill unless it's life threatening, he's getting paid to do it, or some psychological issue).

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HeraldofGanthet

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@xiix:

Congratulations on a completely original thread. I never would've thought of this one!;)

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Jacthripper

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Floyd solos

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jashro44

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#11  Edited By jashro44

Deadshot is not soloing vulture and falcon. Vultures costume (even classic) is bullet proof. He is fast enough to keep up with spider-man and even in his first showing ever he actually flew so fast that spdier-man didn't notice (in the infamous loopty-loop), he's nearly killed daredevil, etc.

Not saying team one wins but this is a lot closer than people are saying it is.

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XiiX

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#12  Edited By XiiX

@heraldofganthet: Ha, thanks man!

Believe it or not, Vulture is one of my favorite villains, so I'll probably be featuring him more in the future.

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HeraldofGanthet

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#13  Edited By HeraldofGanthet

@xiix:

Ha, thanks man!

Believe it or not, Vulture is one of my favorite villains, so I'll probably be featuring him more in the future.

You're a Vulture fan? I guess someone has to be!^-^ (LOL!)

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XiiX

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@heraldofganthet: Psh. Don't gimme that.

He fits perfectly into the green-theme of The Sinister-Six(seriously; you ever notice how Kraven is the only one who doesn't incorporate it into his look? Haha).

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HeraldofGanthet

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#15  Edited By HeraldofGanthet

@xiix:

Psh. Don't gimme that.

He fits perfectly into the green-theme of The Sinister-Six(seriously; you ever notice how Kraven is the only one who doesn't incorporate it into his look? Haha).

I'm just joshing ya. You probably know more about him than I do, hence your liking. That said, I never thought about the color-scheme aspect of the Sinister Six. Very astute observation, mon ami. Kraven. *smh* What a non conformist that guy is. He could wear a crocodile skin trenchcoat if he wanted to.

I KNOW he's got one hanging in a closet somewhere!;P

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bigcimmerian

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@xiix said:

@bigcimmerian:

Assuming there's any distance between them, meaning enough to point a gun, Floyd's faster on the draw than Catman would be closing the gap.

A large part of why he even misses as much as he has is due to CIS(generally not shooting to kill unless it's life threatening, he's getting paid to do it, or some psychological issue).

I wasn't serious 100%. I'm big fan of Catman, but in fight with no CIS, PIS or w/e I agree Deadshot beats him.

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XiiX

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bigcimmerian

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@jashro44: Deadshot is not soloing vulture. Vultures costume (even classic) is bullet proof.

He can just go for the face.

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VenomousTaco

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Deadshot solos.

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jashro44

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#21  Edited By jashro44

@jashro44: Deadshot is not soloing vulture. Vultures costume (even classic) is bullet proof.

He can just go for the face.

He's not going to be an easy target to tag. Again vulture is actually pretty fast.

VS The vulture gang. We see some tactics and also dodges some darts.
Round one against daredevil.
Round 2 against daredevil.
Dodges shots from hog goblin....
Dodges shots from hog goblin....

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SionistheBoss

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#22  Edited By SionistheBoss

@jashro44: the only feet there that made sense here was the dodging of darts and bombs, more so the bombs. even so these were very old feets. the daredevil strips, as well as being old dont show how he would beet catman since he uses deadlier techniques then daredevil. although these are good feets they dont really fit here

P.S Hog Goblin, lol

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jashro44

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@sionistheboss: why? Daredevil is a better fighter than carman and he is also faster and more agile which makes him better suited to deal with vulture IMO.

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nickthedevil

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#24  Edited By nickthedevil
@jashro44 said:

@sionistheboss: why? Daredevil is a better fighter than carman and he is also faster and more agile which makes him better suited to deal with vulture IMO.

You're right, if he doesn't, I'll concede that Catman isn't taking on Vulture and winning.

Floyd, however, can. Deadshot's dealt with faster, foremost being Owen Mercer.

Vulture gets a bullet to the face.

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nickthedevil

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@xiix said:

@heraldofganthet: Ha, thanks man!

Believe it or not, Vulture is one of my favorite villains, so I'll probably be featuring him more in the future.

LOL. There's one down.

Next of on my list of genuine fans to find is Reed Richards, Cheetah and the Blob.

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TimeLordScience

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Night4345

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Deadshot and Catman get pecked to death by pigeons.

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SionistheBoss

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jashro44

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#29  Edited By jashro44

@jashro44 said:

@sionistheboss: why? Daredevil is a better fighter than carman and he is also faster and more agile which makes him better suited to deal with vulture IMO.

You're right, if he doesn't, I'll concede that Catman isn't taking on Vulture and winning.

Floyd, however, can. Deadshot's dealt with faster, foremost being Owen Mercer.

Vulture gets a bullet to the face.

Well to be fair he didn't actually shoot owen mercer (he put his gun to Owens face). That and vulture has a different movement style than Own Mercer being a flyer, and vulture isn't in a cramped room either.

All though I did misspeak. When I said deadshot isn't soloing vulture I meant he isn't soloing both vulture and falcon. I don't think its impossible for deadshot to beat vulture.

@nickthedevil: agreed

@jashro44: never said catman was better, just said he had a different style, thats all.

Catmans fighting style is even worst for dealing with vulture. He isn't agile at all, which is what he needs to avoid vulture. Daredevil also has experience fighting the owl.

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nickthedevil

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#30  Edited By nickthedevil

@jashro44 said:

@nickthedevil said:
@jashro44 said:

@sionistheboss: why? Daredevil is a better fighter than carman and he is also faster and more agile which makes him better suited to deal with vulture IMO.

You're right, if he doesn't, I'll concede that Catman isn't taking on Vulture and winning.

Floyd, however, can. Deadshot's dealt with faster, foremost being Owen Mercer.

Vulture gets a bullet to the face.

Well to be fair he didn't actually shoot owen mercer (he put his gun to Owens face). That and vulture has a different movement style than Own Mercer being a flyer, and vulture isn't in a cramped room either.

All though I did misspeak. When I said deadshot isn't soloing vulture I meant he isn't soloing both vulture and falcon. I don't think its impossible for deadshot to beat vulture.

I'd still definitely debate against that. I do think Deadshot can solo.

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SionistheBoss

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@jashro44: ok then catman takes falcon and deadshot fires at vulture (even if he doesn't hit him with the first shot it wont take him more than five shots max to finish the job)

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jashro44

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@nickthedevil: I don't see how. Vulture has dodged shots from good marksmen in the form of hobgoblin, and falcon is likewise capable of blocking bullets with his wings. And Floyd needs to shoot vulture in the face which really isn't going to be that easy. He's also given Peter some problems in the past.

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CaptainGuts

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I'm backing team two here. A great argument has been made for vulture but Sam is a threat to both opponents as well. His suit doesn't augment him to vultures physical levels but he certainly flys faster than catman can react he's also very skilled in h2h (probably not as good as catman but flight bridges the gap) he also has the control of birds thing which can seriously mess up deadshots aim. I'm saying team 2 for a 7/10 majority

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nickthedevil

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@jashro44 said:

@nickthedevil: I don't see how. Vulture has dodged shots from good marksmen in the form of hobgoblin, and falcon is likewise capable of blocking bullets with his wings. And Floyd needs to shoot vulture in the face which really isn't going to be that easy. He's also given Peter some problems in the past.

Hobgoblin is no where near Floyd's tier as far as being a marksman goes.

Although you might have pointed out that Mercer was running and vulture would be flying, it still gives him the credit for kiting Owen into the spot he wanted him to be, all while still being point blank. Peter still isn't the marksman that deadshot is, neither does Floyd, like Peter so many times, have to play into the Vulture's hands. The sky is Vulture's game, and in the sky, he has speriority, but Deadshot should still be abel to get both kills despite air superiority.

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HeraldofGanthet

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@nickthedevil:

Next of on my list of genuine fans to find is Reed Richards, Cheetah and the Blob.

Well, you might be in luck. @pokeysteve may be one of the foremost experts on Cheetah here on the 'Vine.

Good luck on the Blob, though!;)

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jashro44

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@jashro44 said:

@nickthedevil: I don't see how. Vulture has dodged shots from good marksmen in the form of hobgoblin, and falcon is likewise capable of blocking bullets with his wings. And Floyd needs to shoot vulture in the face which really isn't going to be that easy. He's also given Peter some problems in the past.

Hobgoblin is no where near Floyd's tier as far as being a marksman goes.

Although you might have pointed out that Mercer was running and vulture would be flying, it still gives him the credit for kiting Owen into the spot he wanted him to be, all while still being point blank. Peter still isn't the marksman that deadshot is, neither does Floyd, like Peter so many times, have to play into the Vulture's hands. The sky is Vulture's game, and in the sky, he has speriority, but Deadshot should still be abel to get both kills despite air superiority.

He is however a skilled marksman, being able to tag spider-man on occasion.

I'm not sure why being at point makes the feat more impressive. Own wasn't fighting back, and if anything this would make it even easier for deadshot. As for your comment about spider-man and deadshots accuracy Peter has done things like tag speedsters (slyde and speed demon come to mind), tag shadowland daredevil (daredevil with an amp basically), he left wolverine hanging, he's tagged deadpool, and he's also tagged daredevil in the past. He may not have the raw skill Floyd has but I would argue his spider-sense (which helps him with his accuracy, its been stated on panel) makes him better at anticipating enemies than Floyd is.

And again there is falcon. He has been able to block machine gunfire from nuke before with his wings, who may not be as accurate as deadshot, but even so. In addition to that Falcon can call some birds and deadshot would have to shoot at pigeons, hawks, eagles, and various other birds as well, and if he didn't and just let his armor soak hits from the bird (yes I am aware deadshot can tank bullets) the birds will be in his way blocking his vision. And before you bring up deadshots ability to shoot blind, I would like to point out he likely does that using his hearing, hundreds of birds flapping in his ear will make it difficult to tell where vulture and falcon are.

@jashro44: ok then catman takes falcon and deadshot fires at vulture (even if he doesn't hit him with the first shot it wont take him more than five shots max to finish the job)

Possibly. I'm still confused where to rank catmans raw skill. He probably wins hand to hand but not sure if Falcon needs to go hand to hand, since he has his birds...I remember during geoff johns avengers falcon called a bunch of hawks to attack the red skull. I think red skull is a better fighter than catman....I believe catman may have some diamond tipped catarangs but I haven't see any accuracy feats with them...

All they kind of have to do is survive long enough for the birds to show up....

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nickthedevil

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@jashro44 said:

@nickthedevil said:

@jashro44 said:

@nickthedevil: I don't see how. Vulture has dodged shots from good marksmen in the form of hobgoblin, and falcon is likewise capable of blocking bullets with his wings. And Floyd needs to shoot vulture in the face which really isn't going to be that easy. He's also given Peter some problems in the past.

Hobgoblin is no where near Floyd's tier as far as being a marksman goes.

Although you might have pointed out that Mercer was running and vulture would be flying, it still gives him the credit for kiting Owen into the spot he wanted him to be, all while still being point blank. Peter still isn't the marksman that deadshot is, neither does Floyd, like Peter so many times, have to play into the Vulture's hands. The sky is Vulture's game, and in the sky, he has speriority, but Deadshot should still be abel to get both kills despite air superiority.

He is however a skilled marksman, being able to tag spider-man on occasion.

I'm not sure why being at point makes the feat more impressive. Own wasn't fighting back, and if anything this would make it even easier for deadshot. As for your comment about spider-man and deadshots accuracy Peter has done things like tag speedsters (slyde and speed demon come to mind), tag shadowland daredevil (daredevil with an amp basically), he left wolverine hanging, he's tagged deadpool, and he's also tagged daredevil in the past. He may not have the raw skill Floyd has but I would argue his spider-sense (which helps him with his accuracy, its been stated on panel) makes him better at anticipating enemies than Floyd is.

And again there is falcon. He has been able to block machine gunfire from nuke before with his wings, who may not be as accurate as deadshot, but even so. In addition to that Falcon can call some birds and deadshot would have to shoot at pigeons, hawks, eagles, and various other birds as well, and if he didn't and just let his armor soak hits from the bird (yes I am aware deadshot can tank bullets) the birds will be in his way blocking his vision. And before you bring up deadshots ability to shoot blind, I would like to point out he likely does that using his hearing, hundreds of birds flapping in his ear will make it difficult to tell where vulture and falcon are.

So much to say, so little time...

1. Spider-man get's distracted. Alot. He is never at the best of his abilities either, but I will concede the goblins all have decent aim, Deadshot jsut has fine-er aim.

2. He caught Owen off-guard. Owen still tried to throw a punch but since Deadshot had him dead to rights, he didn't connect.

3.Owen is leagues above Slyde and Speed-Demon.

4. Floyd's never had difficulty with shields/Armor/ invulnerable meta humans before. Why would his wings make a differemce? Ricochets is usually how he goes about this problem.

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jashro44

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#38  Edited By jashro44

@nickthedevil:

  1. I agree with everything except maybe the part about spider-man never being at the best of his abilities.
  2. True he did try to throw a punch but this was basically after he had set up captain boomerang. And again there are a few difference between that scenario and the one here.
  3. Eh, Owen is above slyde but I'm not sure if his movements are above speed demons to be honest. I know he has some good reactions like tagging the jay garrick clone but all we can really gather from that is he can react faster than the outsider members (we don't really know if the Jay Garrick clone was as fast as the real deal)....From what I know of the outsiders speed demon can react faster than them to. Speed demon has feats like throwing hundreds of punches in a fraction of a second, and running so fast he creates tornados which send people like wolverine into the air and trapping him in the air, and pulling spider-man through town despite Peters strength. I am not sure if captain boomerang has the actual feats to say he is faster than speed demon. And even if he did IIRC his speed its only in short bursts as well which is something else to consider......That and the fact Peter did tagged speed demon in a more open environment.
  4. Ricochet off what? Vulture and Falcon are in the sky, unless there near a building (which they don't need to be near) that isn't going to work. There is also the issue of falcons birds....He once controlled 6 billion birds before...I'm not saying he will call that many birds into the fight but he can call hundreds maybe even thousands, he has swarmed the battle field with birds in character to...I'll post the scan of him controlling the 6 billion birds, I can post scans of him swarming the battle field but that doesn't seem necessary.....
No Caption Provided

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TDK_1997

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Deadshot solos.

I can't see that happening at all. This is way closer than people think it is.

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Pokeysteve

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@nickthedevil:

Next of on my list of genuine fans to find is Reed Richards, Cheetah and the Blob.

Well, you might be in luck. @pokeysteve may be one of the foremost experts on Cheetah here on the 'Vine.

Good luck on the Blob, though!;)

You flatter me. @ancient_0f_days and @agent41 have probably surpassed me at this point. They have their stuff all categorized and scans ready to go. I just use what I remember or look it up when I need to. Appreciate the shout out though :D

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HAMMER_OF_J2

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the h*ll is vulture gonna do it there was someone even slightly useful in his place like Ka-zar team 2 would have a chance of winning

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nickzambuto

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#43  Edited By nickzambuto

Jashro's kicking butts up in here, apparently Vulture is an OG. Someone please post that animation of Vulture beating up everyone in the Marvel Universe, I can't remember what the video is called.

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nickthedevil

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#44  Edited By nickthedevil

@jashro44:

1. He really isn't. With his spider-sense, he really shouldn't be tagged at all, you have to know that. When he wants to, he pulls out incredibly insane speed feats out of his ass, but get's tagged by. Rhino, the Goblins, Doc Ock. They are fast, yes, but one does not need to be speedster fast, as evident multiple times.

2. Of course there are differences. Owen was kited and still caught.

3. That Jay Garrick Clone was manhandling all of the outsiders, and was blitzing the hell out of them, even going as far as to whip up a tornado with a single hand to rid himself of Metamorpho. That's faster than just being more quick than the Outsiders. Doesn't matter if Owen has short bursts, speed is speed, and, evidently, it was enough for Floyd.

4. Ricochet off their own protective material? Deadshot #1, V2, he ricochets bullets into aforementioned uncovered joints by way of ricocheting off the edges that preceded them, IIRC. Even so, he has more than bullets. He has things RPG attachments and grenade launchers, you know this, right?

At best, the bird boys stalemate by flying too high to be shot. That's the only possible outcome I see that does not involve Floyd winning.

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Homer_X

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Team 1

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#46  Edited By Keenko

I think both Falcon or Vulture could comfortably beat Catman and then the both of them definitely take down Deadshot. Falcon has the skills, agility, strength and speed to hold his own against either opponents for sure.

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#47  Edited By Keenko

I'd honestly argue Falcon is the most skilled H2H fighter here.

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jashro44

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#48  Edited By jashro44

@nickthedevil said:

@jashro44:

1. He really isn't. With his spider-sense, he really shouldn't be tagged at all, you have to know that. When he wants to, he pulls out incredibly insane speed feats out of his ass, but get's tagged by. Rhino, the Goblins, Doc Ock. They are fast, yes, but one does not need to be speedster fast, as evident multiple times.

2. Of course there are differences. Owen was kited and still caught.

3. That Jay Garrick Clone was manhandling all of the outsiders

1. I don't see how one having trouble with the villains that were designed specifically for giving spider-man problems proves Peter isn't always fighting to the best of his abilities? Dock ock as you said is pretty fast and has always had top tier reflexes as far as street levellers. He's blocked and caught arrows, swatted bullets, deflected demon goblins blasts, and has also effortlessly deflected electros and demo goblins blasts at the same time while smoking a cigarette. In addition to having those reflexes he has a massive reach advantage on Peter in a melee fight (and considering Otto has shown the ability to block Peters webbing there fights always come to melee). Peter has actually stopmed Norman when he gets pissed off. Yes Norman has tagged him but he to has superhuman reflexes, but despite that Peter has flat out vanished in front of Norman. As I said though Peter has in the past stomped Norman when he doesn't hold back.Rhino isn't actually that slow when he isn't jobbing. Peter has actually commented on his speed before. When he's jobbing we get instances where an exhausted spider-man one shots him with an army of super villains. So even if you count rhino surprising Peter on the odd occasion thats kind of a 2 way street IMO. We have instances of rhino tagging spider-man, and we have instances of Peter stomping rhino.

Regardless even if I acknowledge the rhino showing, the point is Peter has other battles where he "fights to the best of his abilities". You think he can do better against shadowland daredevil than iron fist and shang chi combined by not fighting to the best of his abilities? You think he can hold his own against a morals off avengers academy without spider-sense while not fighting to the best of his abilities? You believe he can take the upper hand on iron fist in a fight despite iron fist having traps set in the location, and exploiting there friendship during the fight to get hits on spider-man? You think he can blitz chance, white rabbit, and pyro (can't remember his name right now) with pressure points while not fighting to the best of his abilities? You think he can stomp Ben Reily while not fighting to the best of his abilities?

I can keep this up for a while, and you can probably list some other people who have given spider-man trouble, but this is all besides the point. Hob goblin being able to tag some one like spider-man on the odd occasion is a good accuracy feat for hobgoblin. But this isn't about spider-man.

2. What do you mean by Owen was kited?

3. I know. Thats why I said all we can gather from that is that captain boomerang reacts faster than the outsiders....Yes he did tag the evil Jay Garrick clone but that doesn't make him as fast as the clone. That just means he is fast enough to tag him unlike the outsiders. I don't think we can really apply Jays feats to the clones, and all though man handling the outsiders is very impressive I'm not sure if it puts him above speed demon when looking at speed demons own feats of creating air vacuums which immobilize wolverine, overpowering spider-man with his speed when Peter has at least 10 ton strength, and throwing hundreds of punches in a fraction of a second. If there is a speed difference between Owen and speed demon again Owen can only use his speed in short bursts. So there is also that.

4. Yes I am aware of deadshots explosive rounds. Those will need to be dodged.

5. Are you referring to when he fought soviet suits with killer frost and crew? There were no ricochet shots there.

Yes deadshot can do a ricochet shot.

And what are you saying deadshots going to shoot vultures torso and have the bullet magically bounce in his face? He's never done anything like that, that I can recall. He has only ricocheted on like a 90 degree angle or so never on a 180 degree angle.... And you realize falcons wings are what he uses as a shield to block bullets? Thats like saying someone is behind a wall and deadshot uses the front of the wall to magically ricochet the shot. If your saying he bounces the shot off falcons wings and into vultures head they can easily just spread out. It doesn't exactly take perfect team work or master tacticians to attack from both angles.

And you yet to address the point about the birds coming and providing interference against deadshot. Ignoring the point doesn't make it go away....Falcon can get lots of hawks, eagles and owls if needed:

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Even if Deadshot isn't harmed its still going to interfere with his vision, and if he is getting pushed around by the birds than he's not going to be hitting anyone. So he can't exactly ignore them. This interference would allow the team to close the gap pretty easily.

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SionistheBoss

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@jashro44: dont know if they CAN survive that long. I mean five well aimed shots and vulture is most likely gone, then falcon has to fight off catman, who now has well aimed cover fire. Depending on how long it takes the birds to arrive, deadshot has time to take them both with slight help from catman.

P.S Is that Black Panther Red Skull is holding? If so then i truely under estimated the Skulls fighting skills.

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lesterlawton

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Team one. Deadshot has tagged much faster opponents & carries explosive rounds.