Deadliest Warrior #1: Captain America vs Batman

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Wolverine008

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#151  Edited By Wolverine008

@wolverine08 said:

@the_red_viper:

Meh, Sharon just overreacting. Steve has killed before talking on other occasions before. Like I said, he isn't a blood blooded killer who looks to kill first in a situation, but killing isn't a final option that you have to back him into a corner for him to execute.

I simply don't see Cap going for the kill against Batman, because a solid majority of the time he doesn't go for the kill.

Either way it isn't an "X-Factor", since Batman deals with opponents who are willing to kill all the time, and his no-killing rule never stopped him from seriously maiming and injuring others before. I don't see that being a factor in this fight. Let's leave it at that.

I don't see Cap trying to go for the kill either at first in a fight with Batman. He might try it if push came to shove though.

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Cjdavis103

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@the_red_viper:

I dis agree this fight is close enough where every little bit counts Bat man has to hold back to avoid killing Cap dose not if batman pushes him that psyclogical edge can be what determents this fight

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slimj87d

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@the_red_viper:

I dis agree this fight is close enough where every little bit counts Bat man has to hold back to avoid killing Cap dose not if batman pushes him that psyclogical edge can be what determents this fight

What do you mean Cap doesn't have to hold back? He can throw his shield straight through vehicles like trucks, tanks and helicopters. With that shield he could slice Bruce in half. I'm sure both parties will be holding back.

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Cjdavis103

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@slimj87d:

not if the fight gets desperate which it will if he dose decide to kill bat man the fight will be much easier on cap and he CAN decide to do that Batman dose not have that option

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tparks

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#155  Edited By tparks

ROUND 5: X-FACTORS had both CAPTAIN AMERICA and BATMAN rewarded an EDGE. On to the FINAL BATTLE!

(read round 5's description in the OP if you are confused why this isn't just a PUSH. Also refer to the OP for the final battle.)

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#156  Edited By TifaLockhart

I give this to Cap. He's a Spartan while Batman is a ninja. Batman can evade, but with the shield being a very effective defensive weapon, it's only a matter of time before it's used offensively.

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tparks

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I give this to Cap. He's a Spartan while Batman is a ninja. Batman can evade, but with the shield being a very effective defensive weapon, it's only a matter of time before it's used offensively.

That was an episode of Deadliest Warrior. Nice!

Loading Video...

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#158  Edited By patrat18

Batman.

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Cjdavis103

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#159  Edited By Cjdavis103

using the Op's rules Cap pulls off a very close victory

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ForeverEvil

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bats

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the_red_viper

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#161 the_red_viper  Moderator

@the_red_viper:

I dis agree this fight is close enough where every little bit counts Bat man has to hold back to avoid killing Cap dose not if batman pushes him that psyclogical edge can be what determents this fight

Not wanting to kill doesn't mean Bats will be holding back. Sure, he won't try to snap his neck or poke his eyes out or something, but nothing's stopping Batman from breaking limbs, breaking ribs, causing concussions, tazing... he's done those things for almost 75 years now.

@tparks said:
@tifalockhart said:

I give this to Cap. He's a Spartan while Batman is a ninja. Batman can evade, but with the shield being a very effective defensive weapon, it's only a matter of time before it's used offensively.

That was an episode of Deadliest Warrior. Nice!

Loading Video...

Wow... that episode was sh!t.

In general, almost all episodes from seasons 1 and 2 are pretty dumb.

Still very fun though.

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Cjdavis103

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@the_red_viper:

Yeah but Cap is willing to do that and cutting Bat in half with his sheild

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#163 the_red_viper  Moderator

@the_red_viper:

Yeah but Cap is willing to do that and cutting Bat in half with his sheild

Now you're just talking nonsense... Cap barely ever kills as it is, when did you EVER, and I mean EVER see him cut people in half with his shield?

The fact that Cap kills sometimes is by no means an advantage over Batman. No sir. Batman deals with people who want to kill him ALL THE TIME.

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@cjdavis103 said:

@the_red_viper:

Yeah but Cap is willing to do that and cutting Bat in half with his sheild

Now you're just talking nonsense... Cap barely ever kills as it is, when did you EVER, and I mean EVER see him cut people in half with his shield?

The fact that Cap kills sometimes is by no means an advantage over Batman. No sir. Batman deals with people who want to kill him ALL THE TIME.

Quoted in bold for truth.

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Cjdavis103

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@the_red_viper:

he decapated a vampire with his shield and if it can cut and he can throw it with enough force to stun the Hulk I guaranty you Batman is not going to tank that

I am not arguing that Batman beats them nonleatly because he is more skilled and usually has PIS on his side by that point( the authors cant have him kill off his villains ) But cap is just as skilled and has superhuman physicals this is going to be a close fight and Cap has that extra option of not holding Back.

and yes it is a factor because it is much easer to go for a kill then a KO

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the_red_viper

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#166  Edited By the_red_viper  Moderator

@cjdavis103: You're talking so much nonsense.

Splitting a vampire in half is one thing. When he does that to a human then we'll talk. And there's a reason Cap threw the shield hard enough to KO Hulk (which is PIS): he knew that Hulk wouldn't die. He knew nothing would happen to him. It's not an edge over Batman and it's not easier to kill than it is to seriously injure or maim. You're talking nonsense.

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Cjdavis103

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@the_red_viper:

which is easer shooting some one in the chest or in the kneecap?

which is easier beating someone while holding back or while going all out?

Vampires are tougher then the average human I don see how Humans> vampires in durability

it is an edge because Cap as a solder can take Batmas life Batman can't take caps

in this particular area Cap has an edge

your the one talking nonsense

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VMole

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#168  Edited By VMole

@the_red_viper: @cjdavis103: Never understate the effectiveness of killing intent when comparing each fighter's motivation in a match-up, it can mean the difference between life or death.

For this particular instance, this fight seems to be running under the idea that Steve isn't going to push the 'kill him' button right off the bat since he doesn't operate like that in his superhero line of work for the most part, but it still remains an option for him if the fight carries on, am I correct?

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the_red_viper

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#170 the_red_viper  Moderator

@the_red_viper:

which is easer shooting some one in the chest or in the kneecap?

which is easier beating someone while holding back or while going all out?

Vampires are tougher then the average human I don see how Humans> vampires in durability

it is an edge because Cap as a solder can take Batmas life Batman can't take caps

in this particular area Cap has an edge

your the one talking nonsense

1. Irrelevant because A) both of them have good enough accuracy so it wouldn't matter and B) both of them can dodge shots to any body part.

2. You can go all out and still not kill someone. Batman never holds back, he simply doesn't kill.

3. That wasn't what I meant and you know it. I mean vampires aren't human so Cap wouldn't think twice about killing them. You never see Cap splitting people in half not because it's physically harder but because he doesn't want to.

4. So? Literally ALL of Batman's enemies want to kill him. Why isn't he dead yet?

You almost never see Cap killing other humans. The fact that he does do it once in a long while doesn't give him an edge. He still has morals and he won't try to split Batman in half. I highly doubt he'll even try to kill him in any way as it is.

Batman has dealt with people who are trying to kill him for the last 75 years and he's still alive last time I checked. He never holds back, the fact that he doesn't kill doesn't mean he's pulling his punches. Breking ribs and causing concussions is just as easy as killing someone, some would even say easier.

This discussion is now over. OVER!!!!

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#171 the_red_viper  Moderator

@vmole said:

@the_red_viper: @cjdavis103: Never understate the effectiveness of killing intent when comparing each fighter's motivation in a match-up, it can mean the difference between life or death.

For this particular instance, this fight seems to be running under the idea that Steve isn't going to push the 'kill him' button right off the bat since he doesn't operate like that in his superhero line of work for the most part, but it still remains an option for him if the fight carries on, am I correct?

I don't see how killing intent is any better than maiming intent. Breaking someone's leg or causing a major concussion is just as much a victory as killing is.

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Cjdavis103

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@the_red_viper:

not in the case of someone like cap who can keep fighting after those kinds of wounds

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#173 the_red_viper  Moderator

@the_red_viper:

not in the case of someone like cap who can keep fighting after those kinds of wounds

Nobody can keep fighting with a broken leg. It's pretty much physically impossible.

Even if Cap CAN fight with a broken leg, Batman VS Cap is a throwdown as it is. Batman VS Cap with a broken leg is a victory for Batman.

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Cjdavis103

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@cjdavis103 said:

@the_red_viper:

which is easer shooting some one in the chest or in the kneecap?

which is easier beating someone while holding back or while going all out?

Vampires are tougher then the average human I don see how Humans> vampires in durability

it is an edge because Cap as a solder can take Batmas life Batman can't take caps

in this particular area Cap has an edge

your the one talking nonsense

1. Irrelevant because A) both of them have good enough accuracy so it wouldn't matter and B) both of them can dodge shots to any body part.

2. You can go all out and still not kill someone. Batman never holds back, he simply doesn't kill.

3. That wasn't what I meant and you know it. I mean vampires aren't human so Cap wouldn't think twice about killing them. You never see Cap splitting people in half not because it's physically harder but because he doesn't want to.

4. So? Literally ALL of Batman's enemies want to kill him. Why isn't he dead yet?

You almost never see Cap killing other humans. The fact that he does do it once in a long while doesn't give him an edge. He still has morals and he won't try to split Batman in half. I highly doubt he'll even try to kill him in any way as it is.

Batman has dealt with people who are trying to kill him for the last 75 years and he's still alive last time I checked. He never holds back, the fact that he doesn't kill doesn't mean he's pulling his punches. Breking ribs and causing concussions is just as easy as killing someone, some would even say easier.

This discussion is now over. OVER!!!!

1. being used as an example not a situation

2.Batmans allout is limited to KO moves Caps includes cutting batman in half

3. as mentioned earlier he wount use that right off the bat but if he gets despert he can use it

4, because he never fought Cap

Cap is a solder he has killed before and he can kill again

already said Cap can keep fighting with broken bones ( that happen to be much tougher then normal bones) he has to hold back you say he gose all out but he can't kill he refuse to use any of the most lethal applications for his gear limiting his options . Yes inflicting damage is easier but KOing some one like Cap who has great durability, pain tolerance, and sheer will power is a tough challenge especially when he is fighting back .

Now the discussion is Over

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Cjdavis103

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@the_red_viper:

unless Batman is much worse off like say a fractured skull

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the_red_viper

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#176 the_red_viper  Moderator
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#177  Edited By Cjdavis103
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@cjdavis103: I want to leave the actual battle left open for longer then the individual rounds so there can be a chance for a lot of people to make an argument.

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#179  Edited By VMole

@the_red_viper: It matters because the difference exists. It's far harder to restrain yourself to get in a disabling shot than it is to work at 100% and not worry about whether or not you killed or simply seriously injured your opponent, especially when your counterpart already has a physical edge over you, is closely matched with you in skill, and does not possess a similar mental block.

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Cjdavis103

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@vmole said:

@the_red_viper: It matters because the difference exists. It's far harder to restrain yourself to get in a disabling shot than it is to work at 100% and not worry about whether or not you killed or simply seriously injured your opponent, especially when your counterpart already has a physical edge over you, is closely matched with you in skill, and does not possess a similar mental block.

this

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#181 the_red_viper  Moderator

@vmole said:

@the_red_viper: It matters because the difference exists. It's far harder to restrain yourself to get in a disabling shot than it is to work at 100% and not worry about whether or not you killed or simply seriously injured your opponent, especially when your counterpart already has a physical edge over you, is closely matched with you in skill, and does not possess a similar mental block.

Bane? Ra's al-Ghul?

It's not "far harder". So Batman won't try to snap Cap's neck or windpipe. He'd try to break his leg or something, which is by the way FAR easier than actually making a kill shot.

Not to mention that Batman's equipment is designed to be non-lethal. Understand: Batman never holds back. The fact that he doesn't kill doesn't change that.

And again, Cap BARELY kills. He leaves his opponents alive like 99.99% of the time. Why would he try to kill Batman? It's not even in character for him. More likely he'll try to take him alive for questioning or something. Only if he realizes he has no other choice, he'll try to kill Batman.

The fact that Cap kills 0.01% of his foes doesn't give him an edge over Batman. Stop yammering.

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Iragexcudder

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Cap. His shield is the bystander here. It can negate basically all of Batmans attacks and his hitting power blows bats out of the water. Bats doesn't see as fast as Cap nor does he react fast enough. Putting the best against the best is tough, but like a fellow viner said abover, Cap is a Spartan and Batman is a Ninja.

Cap FTW, barely.

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@the_red_viper: Bane is a sadist and tortures Batman instead of just finishing the job and snapping his neck like a wishbone, and the only times that juice monkey has beaten Batman was when he was juiced up on Venom, he's only a competent fighter otherwise but definitely not anywhere near as skilled as Batman or Captain America. Ra's al-Ghul? Ra's al-Ghul who is comparatively featless unless he has just stepped right out of a Lazarus Pit. Ra's al-Ghul who has only shown any kind of competent martial ability as a swordsman, yet he can still be matched by Batman despite having centuries of experience and training to hone that art? Bring up scans, not informed abilities, of him dealing with and defeating characters that aren't second-stringers that don't involve a sword, heavy PIS, and through his own martial ability, otherwise your comparison can be trashed.

You are again ignoring the fact that Steve doesn't lack the capacity to kill another human unlike Batman, and whether you like it or not, it does provide an edge over your opponent in a fight, and if you bothered to read, I asked whether or not was going straight for the kill in this scenario or if it just remained an option that he could use if he chose to do so DESPITE the fact that he's only been shown in a few instances to come to that conclusion. It doesn't matter if he's done it a few times (which is bunk, he killed he hell out of Nazis during WW2), the fact remains that he has the capacity to do so and will do so again if he feels the need to, something Batman lacks.

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the_red_viper

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#184 the_red_viper  Moderator

@vmole said:

@the_red_viper: Bane is a sadist and tortures Batman instead of just finishing the job and snapping his neck like a wishbone, and the only times that juice monkey has beaten Batman was when he was juiced up on Venom, he's only a competent fighter otherwise but definitely not anywhere near as skilled as Batman or Captain America. Ra's al-Ghul? Ra's al-Ghul who is comparatively featless unless he has just stepped right out of a Lazarus Pit. Ra's al-Ghul who has only shown any kind of competent martial ability as a swordsman, yet he can still be matched by Batman despite having centuries of experience and training to hone that art? Bring up scans, not informed abilities, of him dealing with and defeating characters that aren't second-stringers that don't involve a sword, heavy PIS, and through his own martial ability, otherwise your comparison can be trashed.

You are again ignoring the fact that Steve doesn't lack the capacity to kill another human unlike Batman, and whether you like it or not, it does provide an edge over your opponent in a fight, and if you bothered to read, I asked whether or not was going straight for the kill in this scenario or if it just remained an option that he could use if he chose to do so DESPITE the fact that he's only been shown in a few instances to come to that conclusion. It doesn't matter if he's done it a few times (which is bunk, he killed he hell out of Nazis during WW2), the fact remains that he has the capacity to do so and will do so again if he feels the need to, something Batman lacks.

Killing soldiers from an opposing army, during a war, doesn't count. It's something else ENTIRELY. Cap barely ever kills anyone as a super-hero. Even Agent 13 said he was acting weird when he killed 2 random terrorists.

You havn't explained just WHY it gives Cap an edge. Nevermind the fact that he's NOT going to try and kill Batman, not if he's in character anyways.

I have explained many times over just why it doesn't give Cap an edge. You're just saying "Cap kills people once in a long while so it gives him an edge". Why? What edge does it give him? Breaking someone's ribs/limbs or causing concussive injury is by all accounts much easier than killing someone, especially when you're armed to the teeth with a huge arsenal of gadgets that are specially designed to be non-lethal.

About Ra's, he DID kick the crap out of Batman once with a shovel. I don't have the scans but I believe @citizenbane does.

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Cjdavis103

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@the_red_viper:

about Ra who was the strongest character that Ra has beat besides Batman

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#186 the_red_viper  Moderator

@the_red_viper:

about Ra who was the strongest character that Ra has beat besides Batman

Ra's*.

I dunno. I'm not an expert on him.

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#187  Edited By Cjdavis103

@the_red_viper:

That's is why I and Vmole are not sure how Ra fits as a feat for batman as we only have Batman vs Ra fights for Ra

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#188  Edited By the_red_viper  Moderator

@the_red_viper:

That's is why I and Vmole are not sure how Ra fits as a feat for batman as we only have Batman vs Ra fights for Ra

Ra's*. His name is Ra's. Ra's al-Ghul. Translates to "head of the monster" or "head of the demon".

And as I said, @citizenbane should know Ra's better than me.

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@the_red_viper: Killing soldiers from an opposing army, during a war, doesn't count.

Yes it does.

It shows that he has the capacity to kill and doesn't blink at that prospect. Steve doesn't typically kill in a modern setting because the circumstances are different, but that doesn't mean that it is beneath him to do so if absolutely necessary, and he has gone as far as to judge it necessary.

He doesn't love killing, he doesn't enjoy it when he's forced to, but he'll do it.

You havn't explained just WHY it gives Cap an edge. Nevermind the fact that he's NOT going to try and kill Batman, not if he's in character anyways.

I never said he's going to out and out kill Batman right at the start, I'm saying that he doesn't have the qualms of doing so should it come down to it and how someone with that mindset grants them the edge over someone who doesn't. When it comes to assessing a fighter's effectiveness in combat, killing intent factors heavily into that, lacking one does indeed hamper your potential. There's no PIS involved in this setup, sometimes a potentially killing blow is the only way out in a fight when other options don't present themselves or are exhausted.

I'm not saying Captain America will pull a Punisher on Batman, but with a topic title like 'Deadliest Warrior', I'd expect that a warrior's potential to deal out the 'deadly' should be a consideration that goes without saying, and that advantage definitely goes to Steve.

About Ra's, he DID kick the crap out of Batman once with a shovel.

The same fight where both fighters were exhausted from different circumstances, were fighting in a sandstorm, and were reduced to using improvised weapons? Batman was landing more hits on Ra's during the entire sequence, but Ra's managed to smack a stumbling and disoriented Batman with a shovel once upon standing back up then promptly stabbed him in the chest when he knocked him down.

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#191  Edited By nickzambuto

I'm still trying to figure out who this "Captain Ameriva" fellow is...

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#192 the_red_viper  Moderator

@vmole:

but that doesn't mean that it is beneath him to do so if absolutely necessary

Exactly my point. I don't see him deciding it's necessary to kill Batman. He killed the Nazis because he had no other choice, he couldn't take hundreds of soldiers as captives. It was a war.

Today, in modern times, as an Avenger and a superhero in general, he doesn't normally kill.

he doesn't have the qualms of doing so should it come down to it

I don't see it coming to it.

When it comes to assessing a fighter's effectiveness in combat, killing intent factors heavily into that, lacking one does indeed hamper your potential.

Why, though? I see no reason for that at all. Killing blows are harder to land (require more precision and more force) than non-lethal blows.

Breaking ribs, using concussive gadgets, etc is way easier than snapping someone's windpipe or neck. Requires less precision, less force, easier to get the chance to land a crippling blow than a killing blow. Especially with Batman's arsenal.

The same fight where both fighters were exhausted from different circumstances, were fighting in a sandstorm, and were reduced to using improvised weapons?

No idea. Like I said I'm no expert on Ra's.

Consider this: both fighters are not holding back. Steve aims for the throat while Batman aims for the ribs. Who's gonna have an easier time hitting his mark?

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@the_red_viper:

you can kill a peak human by applying about 66 pounds of force on their tracra that kind of force is something a normal person could do .

to break a normal persons ribs you have to apply over 150 pounds of force and then that's a small fracture for a completely broken bone you need more force then that.

and that's is not considering that batman while tough is still a normal human. and Cap is a super human

Batman has a much tougher fight ahead of him since he has to applay more force to an opponent who is almost as equally skilled while cap has to apply less force

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#194  Edited By the_red_viper  Moderator

@the_red_viper:

you can kill a peak human by applying about 66 pounds of force on their tracra that kind of force is something a normal person could do .

to break a normal persons ribs you have to apply over 150 pounds of force and then that's a small fracture for a completely broken bone you need more force then that.

and that's is not considering that batman while tough is still a normal human. and Cap is a super human

Batman has a much tougher fight ahead of him since he has to applay more force to an opponent who is almost as equally skilled while cap has to apply less force

Apply 66 pounds of force on his what now? You mean trachea (windpipe)?

Batman can break reinforced glass with 1 strike. He can break someone's ribs just as easily. And ribs are easier to hit than the windpipe.

Not to mention Batman can go for the limbs and he has a multitude of gadgets to do the job for him.

Not intending to kill does NOT set him back, no matter how you put it.

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#195  Edited By Cjdavis103

@the_red_viper:

1 Captain America is a super human solder his bones and muscles are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a normal humans like say a certain flying nocturnal mammal man

2. while avoiding someone who is faster and stronger then him and is wielding a weapon that can one shot bats?

3. Caps shield negates almost all of bats gadgets

4. yes it dose which is harder stabbing someone or disarming them while they re trying to kill you. killing requires much less skill and finesses and Cap matches batman in skill more or less

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#196 the_red_viper  Moderator

@the_red_viper:

1 Captain America is a super human solder his bones and muscles are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a normal humans like say a certain flying nocturnal mammal man

2. while avoiding someone who is faster and stronger then him and is wielding a weapon that can one shot bats?

3. Caps shield negates almost all of bats gadgets

4. yes it dose which is harder stabbing someone or disarming them while they re trying to kill you. killing requires much less skill and finesses and Cap matches batman in skill more or less

1. No, Cap's bones aren't more durable than a normal human's. He's stronger, faster and has more stamina, but he's not more durable.

2. Yes.

3. Almost.

4. Oh, I can give bad examples too! Let's see... which is harder, punching someone in the face or poking their forehead with a bendy straw until their skull cracks open, while they're trying to hit you?

Killing requires much MORE skill than crippling and Batman is > Cap in terms of skill as it is.

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@the_red_viper:

We are not going to convince each outer this is going around in circles

@tparks

I think you can call this one way or another

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#198  Edited By VMole

@the_red_viper:

Exactly my point. I don't see him deciding it's necessary to kill Batman. He killed the Nazis because he had no other choice, he couldn't take hundreds of soldiers as captives. It was a war.

Today, in modern times, as an Avenger and a superhero in general, he doesn't normally kill.

Steve has the choice, Bruce doesn't because he works in a limited capacity with his 'no kill' rule.

Steve can both maim and kill, Batman only has the option to maim, the extent to which is arguable because I can't recall many instances where he seriously maims an opponent (taking a limb, a few digits, popping an eye or two, etc.) when he has that option, especially since you bring up that Steve's instances of killing in the capacity as a superhero is fairly rare.

I don't see it coming to it.

The point is that Steve has that option, Bruce doesn't, it's still a consideration for the DeadliestWarrior. I'm certain that Steve would come out on top of the fight well before that before it comes down to that however.

Why, though? I see no reason for that at all. Killing blows are harder to land (require more precision and more force) than non-lethal blows.

Why? Because it takes far more restraint to use the appropriate force to just cause a knock out rather than risk serious damage to internal organs that could lead to death.

Breaking ribs, using concussive gadgets, etc is way easier than snapping someone's windpipe or neck. Requires less precision, less force, easier to get the chance to land a crippling blow than a killing blow. Especially with Batman's arsenal.

Haha no it isn't, a strike to the neck is a laughably easy way to kill a person, it takes a lot more effort to make sure you even use enough force to not cause any permanent damage to the person that would cause them to suffocate to death.

No idea. Like I said I'm no expert on Ra's.

Ra's is relatively featless and overrated as a physical threat unless for whatever reason he puts people in the position to swordfight with him, and is pretty much the only thing he's been shown to actually have an edge over most of his opponents with a few exceptions, yet he has still been matched or outdone by Batman in that art despite having centuries of experience over him.

I was making the point with my post that bringing up Ra's al-Ghul was a poor decision, he's a relatively featless fighter compared to many other examples.

Consider this: both fighters are not holding back. Steve aims for the throat while Batman aims for the ribs. Who's gonna have an easier time hitting his mark?

A throat shot is going to kill Bruce, a shot to the ribs will probably leave Steve momentarily unhappy but still alive.

You seriously underestimate how easy it is to kill with a throat strike, why do you think maneuvers involving the neck are restricted in most legitimate fighting circles?

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@the_red_viper:

he decapated a vampire with his shield and if it can cut and he can throw it with enough force to stun the Hulk I guaranty you Batman is not going to tank that

I am not arguing that Batman beats them nonleatly because he is more skilled and usually has PIS on his side by that point( the authors cant have him kill off his villains ) But cap is just as skilled and has superhuman physicals this is going to be a close fight and Cap has that extra option of not holding Back.

and yes it is a factor because it is much easer to go for a kill then a KO

He decapitaded Baron Blood in 1945 or 1950.....and he use all strength to put him against a wall and then crave his shield on his neck. Captain America only kills when doesn't have another option,not in character.

CaptainAmerica doesn't have strength to stun any version of the hulk,this is just writer nosense and PIS....you can mention that time during Heroic Age,but before being kncoked out Wasp or Antman attcked Hulk's brain. People always forgot context,especially with Batman...because is more easy to say that is PIS.

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#200 the_red_viper  Moderator

@vmole:

Steve has the choice, Bruce doesn't because he works in a limited capacity with his 'no kill' rule.

He has the choice but in-character he wouldn't do it.

I can't recall many instances where he seriously maims an opponent

I can recall him breaking some henchman's ribs in "Hush" as one example (actually his ribs were healing from another injury, Batman made sure they won't heal anytime soon).

The point is that Steve has that option, Bruce doesn't,

They're still in-character. That's the whole thing.

Why? Because it takes far more restraint to use the appropriate force to just cause a knock out rather than risk serious damage to internal organs that could lead to death.

I disagree. It's Batman we're talking about here, not Superman. He can throw a full-force punch in someone's face without killing him.

Haha no it isn't, a strike to the neck is a laughably easy way to kill a person

Yes, if that person isn't trying to avoid the strike and if you hit the windpipe.

it takes a lot more effort to make sure you even use enough force to not cause any permanent damage to the person that would cause them to suffocate to death.

What if I told you Batman doesn't have to target the throat?

A throat shot is going to kill Bruce

Assuming Bruce isn't trying to dodge and isn't fighting back.

a shot to the ribs will probably leave Steve momentarily unhappy but still alive.

Bruce hitting Cap's ribs is far more likely to happen that Cap hitting Bruce's neck. Smaller target, easier to miss. Considering Batman had the strength to shatter a reinforced glass window with one punch, I believe he could break Cap's rib as well. The lower ribs are far weaker than the higher ones or the claviculas. Not to mention that breaking someone's arm/leg in a counter manuever isn't exactly above Batman.

You seriously underestimate how easy it is to kill with a throat strike, why do you think maneuvers involving the neck are restricted in most legitimate fighting circles?

I know it's easy to kill someone with a well-aimed throat shot. But considering Batman won't stand and let Steve take his best shot I'll say it's not going to happen.

I'll leave the Ra's thing until someone who knows him better comes along to defend his honor.

I'll just some it up so we can end it here:

  • It's out of character for Cap to try and kill Batman, unless it's a VERY extreme case.
  • Batman has dealt with people who want to kill him for 75 years now.
  • The fact that Batman won't kill doesn't mean he's holding back.
  • Breaking a rib or a limb is just as easy as killing someone, usually even easier.
  • Batman is more skilled, Cap won't find it easy to one-shot him with a killing blow.
  • Batman is armed to the teeth with a huge arsenal of gadgets that are specifically designed to KO/incapitate his enemies.