#1 Posted by Needlebay (1935 posts) - - Show Bio

The science squad from DC's weekly comic, 52. Well, my version. Basically DC's greatest minds placed on one team. Each team here gets 5 days of prep.

1. Led by Lex Luthor

2. TO Morrow

3. The Chief

4. Ultra-Humanite

5. Ray Palmer

6. Vril Dox

7. Will Magnus

vs

1. Reed Richards

2. Tony Stark

3. Hank Pym

4. Amadeus Cho

5. Bruce Banner

6. Peter Parker

7. Dr. Doom

#2 Posted by soaringturkeys (414 posts) - - Show Bio

DC is outmanned here.

#3 Posted by GhostRider2 (3279 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel.

#4 Posted by Kyzuko (120 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel.

#5 Edited by Qpzmg (976 posts) - - Show Bio

Where is batman? marvel wins.

#6 Posted by beatboks1 (7074 posts) - - Show Bio

@Qpzmg said:

Where is batman? marvel wins.

why would you want to replace anyone listed with an inferior intellect??

Bruce is not in the league of those listed

1.

1. Luthor - has mastered many more fields of science than the ones Bruce has glanced on

2. TO Morrow - centuries ahead in tech on the best Bruce has

3. The Chief - brilliant world leading medical doctor last port of call for the hardest problems. world leader in robotics, cybernetics, genetics, and many other filds. in the last run of DP when the worlds foremost expert in anything couldn't come up with an answer they called Nikes ( NASA, geologists, oceanograhers etc)

4. Ultra-Humanite - as many scientific fiellds as Niles and he's defeated and outmanuevered Bat's several times in tactics

5. Ray Palmer - In 52 he built weapons that could and almost did destroy the multiverse. seriously Bruce is ni where near Palmer

6. Vril Dox - also brilliant in almost every scientific field. brilliant tactician and manipulator with a history of defeating beings more intelligent than him with his ability to play their psychy

7. Will Magnus - master of many fields of science and tactician

#7 Posted by DocFatalis (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

Richards+Doom+Stark looks like an unbeatable trio to me.

#8 Posted by beatboks1 (7074 posts) - - Show Bio

@DocFatalis said:

Richards+Doom+Stark looks like an unbeatable trio to me.

chief, Ultra , and Palmer would match or come close to matching the three. Dox has outmanauvered beings with the knowledge of worlds. this isn't a n essy win for anyone

#9 Posted by dondave (35901 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel ftw, but I agree with what @beatboks1: said

#10 Posted by heroesgold (608 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel.

#11 Posted by beatboks1 (7074 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

Marvel ftw, but I agree with what @beatboks1: said

yeah, Marvel's win here is more due to character interplay than the difference in intellect. Luthor, Caulder, Morrow, Ultra and Dox will all be fighting to wrest control from each other. It will be a power play between them and as such they won't work as well together. Even Magnus is egotistical enough to want to rule the roost, only team player on DC's team is Palmer.

#12 Posted by I_am_Warlock (289 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

chief, Ultra , and Palmer would match or come close to matching the three. Dox has outmanauvered beings with the knowledge of worlds. this isn't a n essy win for anyone

Could you put forward feats from Dc squad? I am well versed with Ultra and can to a reasonable extent understand why one would think Ultra to be Dr.Doom / Reed's equal , i personally dont. Dox from what i have read of LOSH, which is past 2005 really dont look anywhere close to that level so its perhaps the classic feat you are mentioning. Dr. Doom has fooled Mephisto in Hades not sure if that counts, stolen powers from Beyonder in his god-mode, humbled Odin and then Galactus before being WTFpwned by Reed in one of the biggest LOL moments.

I am not saying it should be a easy win for any team, i am just interested to hear what Dc team has done so i can make a reasonable judgement. Also i have absolutely no idea who The Chief or Will Magnus is, and would appreciate if you could put forward more emphasis on what they have achieved.

P.S. When you compare what Reed and Dr. Doom has achieved, the rest of Marvel squad dont even come close (and thats including Cho being a super-god during Hercules: Prince of Power story arc).

#13 Posted by Bo88gdan (4393 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel and you should Replace Parker with MODOK

#14 Posted by Needlebay (1935 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL! Beatboks is the only one here with actual knowledge. For the SAKE of this battle, let's say DC's Science Squad has to work together for the common good.

#15 Posted by Needlebay (1935 posts) - - Show Bio

@I_am_Warlock said:

@beatboks1 said:

chief, Ultra , and Palmer would match or come close to matching the three. Dox has outmanauvered beings with the knowledge of worlds. this isn't a n essy win for anyone

Could you put forward feats from Dc squad? I am well versed with Ultra and can to a reasonable extent understand why one would think Ultra to be Dr.Doom / Reed's equal , i personally dont. Dox from what i have read of LOSH, which is past 2005 really dont look anywhere close to that level so its perhaps the classic feat you are mentioning. Dr. Doom has fooled Mephisto in Hades not sure if that counts, stolen powers from Beyonder in his god-mode, humbled Odin and then Galactus before being WTFpwned by Reed in one of the biggest LOL moments.

I am not saying it should be a easy win for any team, i am just interested to hear what Dc team has done so i can make a reasonable judgement. Also i have absolutely no idea who The Chief or Will Magnus is, and would appreciate if you could put forward more emphasis on what they have achieved.

P.S. When you compare what Reed and Dr. Doom has achieved, the rest of Marvel squad dont even come close (and thats including Cho being a super-god during Hercules: Prince of Power story arc).

Here is a good roundup of super geniuses by a desaad. It's a good post, so I'll quote it.

n your first tier 'mortal' guys, you're going to have the cosmically smart. Here you'll have Brainiac 1, Brainiac 3 (Lyrl), Brainiac 5, Sardath, Alexander Luthor, and probably T.O. Morrow. You'd also have Superman 1 Million and Batman 1 Million, most likely, if you care to count them. Each of those has done something truly astounding.

Brainiac 3 just created a Solaris-Class stellar supercomputer, Pulsar Stargrave, by collapsing a pulsar. This makes it the most sophisticated super computer in the universe. He's a 12th level intelligence, which puts him on par with Brainiac 5. Now Brainiac 1 just, on the fly, created a device to contain/hold a rampaging Pulsar Stargrave (ie, contain Solaris). He's also demonstrated the ability to shrink cities down, his tech was co opted to create a planet out of nothing, and he easily destroyed a star/sun. Brainiac 5 has created a number of crazy devices, perhaps most impressive being the "Concentrator", which literally absorbs/utilizes/concentrates every joule of energy in the ENTIRE universe into whatever effect the user wants. It's...disturbing. He's got other feats as well, of force fields and coming up with cures for this and that, outsmarting vast artificial intelligences, etc.

Sardath has created the Zeta Beam, which allows instantaneous transportation across the universe. He also invented the Omega Beam, which allows the transfer of VAST amounts of matter into energy, so much so that it was threat to the universe -- had Starbreaker gotten his hands on it, he would have converted all matter in the universe to energy and absorbed it all. Even normal Zeta Beam tech can teleport planets, though, as demonstrated in a recent issue of REBELS.

Alexander Luthor really only just has the one feat, but it's kind of a doozy. He created a device to literally manipulate the multiverse, combining and separating universes at his whim. Insanity.

T.O. Morrow is probably the only normally earth guy who deserves a mention here. He apparently learned to 'unlock the hidden space between dimensions' when he was 14 (ie, dimensional creation), he's created time machines and vast super computers that alter reality via time manipulation. He also turns iPods into death rays and creates synthetic souls (Tomorrow Woman, Red Tornado).

Metron is almost a cut above, but since Alexander Luthor got mentioned, I'll give him a shout out. He's created Boom Tubes and the Worlogog and the Moebius Chair, he helped develop the Mother Box (with Himon), controls Hypertime, etc.


Next would come the really big science guys. I this grouping might be The Chief, Ray Palmer, Prof. Ivo, Will Magnus, Professor Nichols, and maybe Mr. Terrific.

The Chief has invented a time machine, replaced the JLA's abilities with tech approximations, brought Rita back from the dead with just a piece of her skull, created nanobots that could literally do anything, including create a being so powerful that he was throwing his victims through the fourth wall into 'our' reality. And it looks like he's going to discover away to alter his genes so that he becomes Kryptonian.

Ray Palmer cracked the Hourman virus when Superman 1 Million said that only a Solaris class stellar computer could do so, created a time machine, created boom tube like teleportation devices, co created a device that made the user's wish come true, figured out how to neutralize a universe destroying cosmic phenomenon that hadn't ever been discovered, has been described as having a mind like the world's largest harddrive, and created the greatest shrinking technology in comics (in terms of power, range and versatility).

Prof. Ivo created Amazo and Tomorrow Woman, two of the physical most potent androids in comics, especially Amazo. He created a serum that made him immortal, he's created countless powerful androids.

Will Magnus has created a device that creates portals between dimensions/universes, the responsometers of the Metal Men which basically means he created souls out of code, flying cars controled and powered by his thoughts, etc.

Professor Nichols created a time machine and a "Maybe Machine" that predicts the future based up suppositions/questions one asks it, a sort of "What if.."

I wouldn't have put Mr. Terrific on here but for the fact that lately Robinson has been giving him a bit of a push, as he was able to create a device that destroyed all the Black Lanterns in a tri state area -- the only tech feat I know of to have accomplished such a thing -- and he's currently working on a way to defeat the Starheart. He also figured out how to travel through time, and his T-spheres are crazy advanced.

Next level down might be the more 'normal' geniuses, and this one covers a wider range IMHO. At the top of this level, maybe even pushing up into the higher level, you've got Steel and Lex Luthor, and then more in the middle you've got Batman and Gizmo. Steel is the engineer of the group, retrofitting time machines (though not building them from scratch, which is a strike against) and building all kinds of crazy powerful suits and nanotech and what not.

Lex Luthor vacillates (Post-Crisis) between being a business man and being a genius. Many of his greatest 'works' have been attributed to his staff. Lately he's made a bit of a comeback as an evil genius, having combined time pool technology with kryptonian weaponry to change the sun to red and various things like that, but he's not a straight up scientist guy anymore, and I doubt he will be shown to be in the upcoming Action run with Paul Cornell. If you take Pre-Crisis into account you're talking about putting him up at the cosmic level as he's making time machines out of orange juice boxes and tin foil.

RIP is a specialist in time, and pretty much only makes time technology. He's good at what he does, but it's limited inherently, and doesn't deserve to be listed along with all the polymaths above.

Anarky is a tough one to gauge as he didn't have a huge number of appearances, but from what little saw -- the way he was able to calculate the coming of the great threat to reality and figure out a way to defeat it, creating a Boom Tube home-made, finding ways to alter the minds of everyone in Gotham...he's probably in "big science" level, albeit at the lower level.

Calc and Oracle are great hackers/computer people, but aren't polymaths on the level of any of the above. They are about equal, with an edge to Oracle.

Sivanna doesn't have very many appearances. I think writers generally think of him on the Big Science level, but from what he's actually done I'd put him at the very low end of that level or about on par with Lex Luthor. He's created dimensional travel, suspendium (frozen time particles), and weapons that have lifted entire cities and badly hurt kryptonian level foes.

And one thing to note -- Hiro, the asian Toyman, got revealed to be a robot all along during Johns' Action Comics run. He's just an artificial intelligence created by Schlott (who probably deserves a mention...he only really makes robots, but they are so sophisticated that no one on the planet can apparently tell that they are robots, including Superman and Batman).

#16 Posted by FiguredOut95 (379 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel

#17 Posted by Needlebay (1935 posts) - - Show Bio

Who are the matchups here? Please give reasons.

#18 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14594 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: yeah but Batman is like the honey badger, he doesn't give a sh!t.

#19 Posted by mk111 (3140 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with Marvel for now.

#20 Posted by Ddecourt (796 posts) - - Show Bio

You should've put Batman and Mr Terrific on the team. Marvel wins.

#21 Posted by XiiX (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

DC(because Beatboks is the only person that gave even somewhat compelling input).

#22 Posted by Needlebay (1935 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman is inferior to everyone on DC team. Terrific, maybe, but pretty much all of DC can match him feat for feat.

#23 Posted by Needlebay (1935 posts) - - Show Bio

@XiiX said:

DC(because Beatboks is the only person that gave even somewhat compelling input).

Exactly. If I don't see actual reasoning, then I'm going to assume most posters don't know the characters. They're not your popular characters, so it's understandable.

#24 Posted by DocFatalis (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay said:

@I_am_Warlock said:

@beatboks1 said:

chief, Ultra , and Palmer would match or come close to matching the three. Dox has outmanauvered beings with the knowledge of worlds. this isn't a n essy win for anyone

Could you put forward feats from Dc squad? I am well versed with Ultra and can to a reasonable extent understand why one would think Ultra to be Dr.Doom / Reed's equal , i personally dont. Dox from what i have read of LOSH, which is past 2005 really dont look anywhere close to that level so its perhaps the classic feat you are mentioning. Dr. Doom has fooled Mephisto in Hades not sure if that counts, stolen powers from Beyonder in his god-mode, humbled Odin and then Galactus before being WTFpwned by Reed in one of the biggest LOL moments.

I am not saying it should be a easy win for any team, i am just interested to hear what Dc team has done so i can make a reasonable judgement. Also i have absolutely no idea who The Chief or Will Magnus is, and would appreciate if you could put forward more emphasis on what they have achieved.

P.S. When you compare what Reed and Dr. Doom has achieved, the rest of Marvel squad dont even come close (and thats including Cho being a super-god during Hercules: Prince of Power story arc).

Here is a good roundup of super geniuses by a desaad. It's a good post, so I'll quote it.

n your first tier 'mortal' guys, you're going to have the cosmically smart. Here you'll have Brainiac 1, Brainiac 3 (Lyrl), Brainiac 5, Sardath, Alexander Luthor, and probably T.O. Morrow. You'd also have Superman 1 Million and Batman 1 Million, most likely, if you care to count them. Each of those has done something truly astounding.

Brainiac 3 just created a Solaris-Class stellar supercomputer, Pulsar Stargrave, by collapsing a pulsar. This makes it the most sophisticated super computer in the universe. He's a 12th level intelligence, which puts him on par with Brainiac 5. Now Brainiac 1 just, on the fly, created a device to contain/hold a rampaging Pulsar Stargrave (ie, contain Solaris). He's also demonstrated the ability to shrink cities down, his tech was co opted to create a planet out of nothing, and he easily destroyed a star/sun. Brainiac 5 has created a number of crazy devices, perhaps most impressive being the "Concentrator", which literally absorbs/utilizes/concentrates every joule of energy in the ENTIRE universe into whatever effect the user wants. It's...disturbing. He's got other feats as well, of force fields and coming up with cures for this and that, outsmarting vast artificial intelligences, etc.

Sardath has created the Zeta Beam, which allows instantaneous transportation across the universe. He also invented the Omega Beam, which allows the transfer of VAST amounts of matter into energy, so much so that it was threat to the universe -- had Starbreaker gotten his hands on it, he would have converted all matter in the universe to energy and absorbed it all. Even normal Zeta Beam tech can teleport planets, though, as demonstrated in a recent issue of REBELS.

Alexander Luthor really only just has the one feat, but it's kind of a doozy. He created a device to literally manipulate the multiverse, combining and separating universes at his whim. Insanity.

T.O. Morrow is probably the only normally earth guy who deserves a mention here. He apparently learned to 'unlock the hidden space between dimensions' when he was 14 (ie, dimensional creation), he's created time machines and vast super computers that alter reality via time manipulation. He also turns iPods into death rays and creates synthetic souls (Tomorrow Woman, Red Tornado).

Metron is almost a cut above, but since Alexander Luthor got mentioned, I'll give him a shout out. He's created Boom Tubes and the Worlogog and the Moebius Chair, he helped develop the Mother Box (with Himon), controls Hypertime, etc.


Next would come the really big science guys. I this grouping might be The Chief, Ray Palmer, Prof. Ivo, Will Magnus, Professor Nichols, and maybe Mr. Terrific.

The Chief has invented a time machine, replaced the JLA's abilities with tech approximations, brought Rita back from the dead with just a piece of her skull, created nanobots that could literally do anything, including create a being so powerful that he was throwing his victims through the fourth wall into 'our' reality. And it looks like he's going to discover away to alter his genes so that he becomes Kryptonian.

Ray Palmer cracked the Hourman virus when Superman 1 Million said that only a Solaris class stellar computer could do so, created a time machine, created boom tube like teleportation devices, co created a device that made the user's wish come true, figured out how to neutralize a universe destroying cosmic phenomenon that hadn't ever been discovered, has been described as having a mind like the world's largest harddrive, and created the greatest shrinking technology in comics (in terms of power, range and versatility).

Prof. Ivo created Amazo and Tomorrow Woman, two of the physical most potent androids in comics, especially Amazo. He created a serum that made him immortal, he's created countless powerful androids.

Will Magnus has created a device that creates portals between dimensions/universes, the responsometers of the Metal Men which basically means he created souls out of code, flying cars controled and powered by his thoughts, etc.

Professor Nichols created a time machine and a "Maybe Machine" that predicts the future based up suppositions/questions one asks it, a sort of "What if.."

I wouldn't have put Mr. Terrific on here but for the fact that lately Robinson has been giving him a bit of a push, as he was able to create a device that destroyed all the Black Lanterns in a tri state area -- the only tech feat I know of to have accomplished such a thing -- and he's currently working on a way to defeat the Starheart. He also figured out how to travel through time, and his T-spheres are crazy advanced.

Next level down might be the more 'normal' geniuses, and this one covers a wider range IMHO. At the top of this level, maybe even pushing up into the higher level, you've got Steel and Lex Luthor, and then more in the middle you've got Batman and Gizmo. Steel is the engineer of the group, retrofitting time machines (though not building them from scratch, which is a strike against) and building all kinds of crazy powerful suits and nanotech and what not.

Lex Luthor vacillates (Post-Crisis) between being a business man and being a genius. Many of his greatest 'works' have been attributed to his staff. Lately he's made a bit of a comeback as an evil genius, having combined time pool technology with kryptonian weaponry to change the sun to red and various things like that, but he's not a straight up scientist guy anymore, and I doubt he will be shown to be in the upcoming Action run with Paul Cornell. If you take Pre-Crisis into account you're talking about putting him up at the cosmic level as he's making time machines out of orange juice boxes and tin foil.

RIP is a specialist in time, and pretty much only makes time technology. He's good at what he does, but it's limited inherently, and doesn't deserve to be listed along with all the polymaths above.

Anarky is a tough one to gauge as he didn't have a huge number of appearances, but from what little saw -- the way he was able to calculate the coming of the great threat to reality and figure out a way to defeat it, creating a Boom Tube home-made, finding ways to alter the minds of everyone in Gotham...he's probably in "big science" level, albeit at the lower level.

Calc and Oracle are great hackers/computer people, but aren't polymaths on the level of any of the above. They are about equal, with an edge to Oracle.

Sivanna doesn't have very many appearances. I think writers generally think of him on the Big Science level, but from what he's actually done I'd put him at the very low end of that level or about on par with Lex Luthor. He's created dimensional travel, suspendium (frozen time particles), and weapons that have lifted entire cities and badly hurt kryptonian level foes.

And one thing to note -- Hiro, the asian Toyman, got revealed to be a robot all along during Johns' Action Comics run. He's just an artificial intelligence created by Schlott (who probably deserves a mention...he only really makes robots, but they are so sophisticated that no one on the planet can apparently tell that they are robots, including Superman and Batman).

From what I can read here, Richards alone has feats outmatching the DC contestants. The three most important probably being inventing and harnessing the unstable molecules, discovering a way to travel through dimensions, inventing a math system allowing him to foretell the future.

#25 Edited by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ddecourt said:

You should've put Batman and Mr Terrific on the team. Marvel wins.

what does Bat has to offer? considering every single one of them from team 1 out-classed Bruce in Science...

@Needlebay:

I'll go with marvel team(8/10) , mainly because of Reed+Doom+Stark...

although I think Marvel team should replaces Parker & Cho with MODOK & Mr Sinister...

#26 Posted by Pyrogram (36304 posts) - - Show Bio

marvel

#27 Posted by Needlebay (1935 posts) - - Show Bio

@DocFatalis said:

@Needlebay said:

@I_am_Warlock said:

@beatboks1 said:

chief, Ultra , and Palmer would match or come close to matching the three. Dox has outmanauvered beings with the knowledge of worlds. this isn't a n essy win for anyone

Could you put forward feats from Dc squad? I am well versed with Ultra and can to a reasonable extent understand why one would think Ultra to be Dr.Doom / Reed's equal , i personally dont. Dox from what i have read of LOSH, which is past 2005 really dont look anywhere close to that level so its perhaps the classic feat you are mentioning. Dr. Doom has fooled Mephisto in Hades not sure if that counts, stolen powers from Beyonder in his god-mode, humbled Odin and then Galactus before being WTFpwned by Reed in one of the biggest LOL moments.

I am not saying it should be a easy win for any team, i am just interested to hear what Dc team has done so i can make a reasonable judgement. Also i have absolutely no idea who The Chief or Will Magnus is, and would appreciate if you could put forward more emphasis on what they have achieved.

P.S. When you compare what Reed and Dr. Doom has achieved, the rest of Marvel squad dont even come close (and thats including Cho being a super-god during Hercules: Prince of Power story arc).

Here is a good roundup of super geniuses by a desaad. It's a good post, so I'll quote it.

n your first tier 'mortal' guys, you're going to have the cosmically smart. Here you'll have Brainiac 1, Brainiac 3 (Lyrl), Brainiac 5, Sardath, Alexander Luthor, and probably T.O. Morrow. You'd also have Superman 1 Million and Batman 1 Million, most likely, if you care to count them. Each of those has done something truly astounding.

Brainiac 3 just created a Solaris-Class stellar supercomputer, Pulsar Stargrave, by collapsing a pulsar. This makes it the most sophisticated super computer in the universe. He's a 12th level intelligence, which puts him on par with Brainiac 5. Now Brainiac 1 just, on the fly, created a device to contain/hold a rampaging Pulsar Stargrave (ie, contain Solaris). He's also demonstrated the ability to shrink cities down, his tech was co opted to create a planet out of nothing, and he easily destroyed a star/sun. Brainiac 5 has created a number of crazy devices, perhaps most impressive being the "Concentrator", which literally absorbs/utilizes/concentrates every joule of energy in the ENTIRE universe into whatever effect the user wants. It's...disturbing. He's got other feats as well, of force fields and coming up with cures for this and that, outsmarting vast artificial intelligences, etc.

Sardath has created the Zeta Beam, which allows instantaneous transportation across the universe. He also invented the Omega Beam, which allows the transfer of VAST amounts of matter into energy, so much so that it was threat to the universe -- had Starbreaker gotten his hands on it, he would have converted all matter in the universe to energy and absorbed it all. Even normal Zeta Beam tech can teleport planets, though, as demonstrated in a recent issue of REBELS.

Alexander Luthor really only just has the one feat, but it's kind of a doozy. He created a device to literally manipulate the multiverse, combining and separating universes at his whim. Insanity.

T.O. Morrow is probably the only normally earth guy who deserves a mention here. He apparently learned to 'unlock the hidden space between dimensions' when he was 14 (ie, dimensional creation), he's created time machines and vast super computers that alter reality via time manipulation. He also turns iPods into death rays and creates synthetic souls (Tomorrow Woman, Red Tornado).

Metron is almost a cut above, but since Alexander Luthor got mentioned, I'll give him a shout out. He's created Boom Tubes and the Worlogog and the Moebius Chair, he helped develop the Mother Box (with Himon), controls Hypertime, etc.


Next would come the really big science guys. I this grouping might be The Chief, Ray Palmer, Prof. Ivo, Will Magnus, Professor Nichols, and maybe Mr. Terrific.

The Chief has invented a time machine, replaced the JLA's abilities with tech approximations, brought Rita back from the dead with just a piece of her skull, created nanobots that could literally do anything, including create a being so powerful that he was throwing his victims through the fourth wall into 'our' reality. And it looks like he's going to discover away to alter his genes so that he becomes Kryptonian.

Ray Palmer cracked the Hourman virus when Superman 1 Million said that only a Solaris class stellar computer could do so, created a time machine, created boom tube like teleportation devices, co created a device that made the user's wish come true, figured out how to neutralize a universe destroying cosmic phenomenon that hadn't ever been discovered, has been described as having a mind like the world's largest harddrive, and created the greatest shrinking technology in comics (in terms of power, range and versatility).

Prof. Ivo created Amazo and Tomorrow Woman, two of the physical most potent androids in comics, especially Amazo. He created a serum that made him immortal, he's created countless powerful androids.

Will Magnus has created a device that creates portals between dimensions/universes, the responsometers of the Metal Men which basically means he created souls out of code, flying cars controled and powered by his thoughts, etc.

Professor Nichols created a time machine and a "Maybe Machine" that predicts the future based up suppositions/questions one asks it, a sort of "What if.."

I wouldn't have put Mr. Terrific on here but for the fact that lately Robinson has been giving him a bit of a push, as he was able to create a device that destroyed all the Black Lanterns in a tri state area -- the only tech feat I know of to have accomplished such a thing -- and he's currently working on a way to defeat the Starheart. He also figured out how to travel through time, and his T-spheres are crazy advanced.

Next level down might be the more 'normal' geniuses, and this one covers a wider range IMHO. At the top of this level, maybe even pushing up into the higher level, you've got Steel and Lex Luthor, and then more in the middle you've got Batman and Gizmo. Steel is the engineer of the group, retrofitting time machines (though not building them from scratch, which is a strike against) and building all kinds of crazy powerful suits and nanotech and what not.

Lex Luthor vacillates (Post-Crisis) between being a business man and being a genius. Many of his greatest 'works' have been attributed to his staff. Lately he's made a bit of a comeback as an evil genius, having combined time pool technology with kryptonian weaponry to change the sun to red and various things like that, but he's not a straight up scientist guy anymore, and I doubt he will be shown to be in the upcoming Action run with Paul Cornell. If you take Pre-Crisis into account you're talking about putting him up at the cosmic level as he's making time machines out of orange juice boxes and tin foil.

RIP is a specialist in time, and pretty much only makes time technology. He's good at what he does, but it's limited inherently, and doesn't deserve to be listed along with all the polymaths above.

Anarky is a tough one to gauge as he didn't have a huge number of appearances, but from what little saw -- the way he was able to calculate the coming of the great threat to reality and figure out a way to defeat it, creating a Boom Tube home-made, finding ways to alter the minds of everyone in Gotham...he's probably in "big science" level, albeit at the lower level.

Calc and Oracle are great hackers/computer people, but aren't polymaths on the level of any of the above. They are about equal, with an edge to Oracle.

Sivanna doesn't have very many appearances. I think writers generally think of him on the Big Science level, but from what he's actually done I'd put him at the very low end of that level or about on par with Lex Luthor. He's created dimensional travel, suspendium (frozen time particles), and weapons that have lifted entire cities and badly hurt kryptonian level foes.

And one thing to note -- Hiro, the asian Toyman, got revealed to be a robot all along during Johns' Action Comics run. He's just an artificial intelligence created by Schlott (who probably deserves a mention...he only really makes robots, but they are so sophisticated that no one on the planet can apparently tell that they are robots, including Superman and Batman).

From what I can read here, Richards alone has feats outmatching the DC contestants. The three most important probably being inventing and harnessing the unstable molecules, discovering a way to travel through dimensions, inventing a math system allowing him to foretell the future.

What feats are those?

#28 Edited by beatboks1 (7074 posts) - - Show Bio

@I_am_Warlock said:

@beatboks1 said:

chief, Ultra , and Palmer would match or come close to matching the three. Dox has outmanauvered beings with the knowledge of worlds. this isn't a n essy win for anyone

Could you put forward feats from Dc squad?

1. Lex Luthor

  • built armor that can go toe to toe with Superman
  • built a device that can harness the energy of spirit's ( magic) to harm Superman
  • able to adapt alien tech on the fly ( during Invasion) that he has just seen for the first time
  • gave hundreds of people super powers by altering their DNA
  • cloned his body to have a replacement when he was dying

Just to name a few

2. TO Morrow

  • Built a device that allowed him to see the through time and reverse engineer future technology
  • built the android Red Tornado ( with his powers)
  • Built other androids also with powers ( like tomorrow Woman who had TP/ TK)
  • built time machines
  • built other weaponry

3. The Chief - Leader and former of Doom Patrol

  • Built Robotman and transplanted the human brain of Cliff steel into it
  • treated negative man and cam up with the specially treated bandages that protected those around him from the readiation he gave off
  • Tactically matched at every turn a centuries old military Genius in General Immortus
  • Created an "immortality serum" that increases life span almost indefinitely
  • Creating a robot with sufficient medical knowledge to operate on himself when trapped
  • Manipulating and controlling the U.N and several political powers around the globe to unknowingly serve his plans
  • engineered the accidents that caused Cleff steel to be parralized so he would willingly become Robotman and the accident that would give Rita Farr her elastic powers. then manipulating both to serve his ends.

4. Ultra-Humanite

  • created robots that could fight superman
  • created death Ray's, teleporters, time machines, force filds and many other weapons capable of harming JSA and JLAers alike
  • perfected brain transplants in 1940
  • enpowered beings with super powers to be on the level of powerhouses ( Cyclotron, Deathbolt, Amazigman, Fairy Tales Fenton with the power of Thor)
  • empowered himself with mental powers to be able to fight Superman and Alan scot at the same time easily
  • genetically engineered the white ape body into which he transplanted his powerful brain to be able to physically match Superman, martian Manhunter and beat up Powergirl
  • take the reality warping powers of Johnny/Jakeem Thunder
  • infect the JSA with the stream of ruthfulness making them evil to fight their children knowing that whoever wins they would be destraught with grief ( after the effects wear off) and unable to fight him
  • Altered the cosmic balance in the multiverse so that all the heroes of Earth 2 ceased to have ever existed (manipulated the villains of E-1 to doing his dirty work by making them believe that it could have been their worlds heroes that went and only loosing because they undid their dirty work after he threw them back to their world.

5. Ray Palmer

  • created a device that could allow him to alter his molecular mass and size while trapped in a cave on the fly
  • Built the teleporters, force fields and other weaponry of the JLA Sataleite
  • Was shown in several "DC Big events" to be ahead of Luthor in his tech knowledge ( like in Invasion he was adapting alien tech to do more far quicker)
  • Built devices to traverse dimensions
  • built a device capable of multiversal destruction

6. Vril Dox - He's from L.E.G.I.O.N/ R.E.B.E.L.S not LoSH

  • Built devices that counter the powers of almost every super powered member of LEGION as a back up
  • genetically removed Lobo's ability to replicate
  • built an artificial intelligence that acted as a force field that could withstand the sun that can also tecnopathically control all tech
  • built a device that can drain the energy manipulation powers of Pulsar Stargrave ( Superman/ level and above)
  • genetically enhanced himself to be able to match Lobo in physical battle
  • outmaneuvered his smarter "father" Brainiac ( defeated his twice). y manipulating Brainiacs own motivations
  • Never trusting anyone always manipulates everyone (even his enemies) to do exactly what he want's them to do by setting events in motion that he knows their reactions will be the ones he wants to happen
  • tactically defeating empires and armadas on the fly, turning imminent losses in battle to victories

7. Will Magnus

  • created the metal men and the responsertron that gives them human characteristics
  • their base of operations and all the tech and weapons within
  • cloned his body for a replacement

@DocFatalis:

From what I can read here, Richards alone has feats outmatching the DC contestants. The three most important probably being inventing and harnessing the unstable molecules, discovering a way to travel through dimensions, inventing a math system allowing him to foretell the future.

The underlined feats have been done by Atom, Ultra, Morrow, Dox. Atom has created and controlled unsatble particles. Ultra, Morrow and Dox have all devloped future "viewers that see the exact future or alternates, Ultra, Atom, and Morrow have all developed ways of traveling through dimensions

#29 Posted by The Stegman (23744 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh, get Doom out of there, he's not fair.

#30 Posted by Needlebay (1935 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@I_am_Warlock said:

@beatboks1 said:

chief, Ultra , and Palmer would match or come close to matching the three. Dox has outmanauvered beings with the knowledge of worlds. this isn't a n essy win for anyone

Could you put forward feats from Dc squad?

1. Lex Luthor

  • built armor that can go toe to toe with Superman
  • built a device that can harness the energy of spirit's ( magic) to harm Superman
  • able to adapt alien tech on the fly ( during Invasion) that he has just seen for the first time
  • gave hundreds of people super powers by altering their DNA
  • cloned his body to have a replacement when he was dying

Just to name a few

2. TO Morrow

  • Built a device that allowed him to see the through time and reverse engineer future technology
  • built the android Red Tornado ( with his powers)
  • Built other androids also with powers ( like tomorrow Woman who had TP/ TK)
  • built time machines
  • built other weaponry

3. The Chief - Leader and former of Doom Patrol

  • Built Robotman and transplanted the human brain of Cliff steel into it
  • treated negative man and cam up with the specially treated bandages that protected those around him from the readiation he gave off
  • Tactically matched at every turn a centuries old military Genius in General Immortus
  • Created an "immortality serum" that increases life span almost indefinitely
  • Creating a robot with sufficient medical knowledge to operate on himself when trapped
  • Manipulating and controlling the U.N and several political powers around the globe to unknowingly serve his plans
  • engineered the accidents that caused Cleff steel to be parralized so he would willingly become Robotman and the accident that would give Rita Farr her elastic powers. then manipulating both to serve his ends.

4. Ultra-Humanite

  • created robots that could fight superman
  • created death Ray's, teleporters, time machines, force filds and many other weapons capable of harming JSA and JLAers alike
  • perfected brain transplants in 1940
  • enpowered beings with super powers to be on the level of powerhouses ( Cyclotron, Deathbolt, Amazigman, Fairy Tales Fenton with the power of Thor)
  • empowered himself with mental powers to be able to fight Superman and Alan scot at the same time easily
  • genetically engineered the white ape body into which he transplanted his powerful brain to be able to physically match Superman, martian Manhunter and beat up Powergirl
  • take the reality warping powers of Johnny/Jakeem Thunder
  • infect the JSA with the stream of ruthfulness making them evil to fight their children knowing that whoever wins they would be destraught with grief ( after the effects wear off) and unable to fight him
  • Altered the cosmic balance in the multiverse so that all the heroes of Earth 2 ceased to have ever existed (manipulated the villains of E-1 to doing his dirty work by making them believe that it could have been their worlds heroes that went and only loosing because they undid their dirty work after he threw them back to their world.

5. Ray Palmer

  • created a device that could allow him to alter his molecular mass and size while trapped in a cave on the fly
  • Built the teleporters, force fields and other weaponry of the JLA Sataleite
  • Was shown in several "DC Big events" to be ahead of Luthor in his tech knowledge ( like in Invasion he was adapting alien tech to do more far quicker)
  • Built devices to traverse dimensions
  • built a device capable of multiversal destruction

6. Vril Dox - He's from L.E.G.I.O.N/ R.E.B.E.L.S not LoSH

  • Built devices that counter the powers of almost every super powered member of LEGION as a back up
  • genetically removed Lobo's ability to replicate
  • built an artificial intelligence that acted as a force field that could withstand the sun that can also tecnopathically control all tech
  • built a device that can drain the energy manipulation powers of Pulsar Stargrave ( Superman/ level and above)
  • genetically enhanced himself to be able to match Lobo in physical battle
  • outmaneuvered his smarter "father" Brainiac ( defeated his twice). y manipulating Brainiacs own motivations
  • Never trusting anyone always manipulates everyone (even his enemies) to do exactly what he want's them to do by setting events in motion that he knows their reactions will be the ones he wants to happen
  • tactically defeating empires and armadas on the fly, turning imminent losses in battle to victories

7. Will Magnus

  • created the metal men and the responsertron that gives them human characteristics
  • their base of operations and all the tech and weapons within
  • cloned his body for a replacement

@DocFatalis:

From what I can read here, Richards alone has feats outmatching the DC contestants. The three most important probably being inventing and harnessing the unstable molecules, discovering a way to travel through dimensions, inventing a math system allowing him to foretell the future.

The underlined feats have been done by Atom, Ultra, Morrow, Dox. Atom has created and controlled unsatble particles. Ultra, Morrow and Dox have all devloped future "viewers that see the exact future or alternates, Ultra, Atom, and Morrow have all developed ways of traveling through dimensions

Very good list. Thanks for sharing.

#31 Posted by Needlebay (1935 posts) - - Show Bio

@Beatbok's What device are you referring to when Ray Palmer almost destroyed the MULTIVERSE? I don't remember that,

#32 Posted by beatboks1 (7074 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay said:

@Beatbok's What device are you referring to when Ray Palmer almost destroyed the MULTIVERSE? I don't remember that,

It was the earth 51 Palmer in 52, the real Ray paler stopped it from working and showed a complete ( or rather better ) understanding of how it worked.

#33 Posted by Needlebay (1935 posts) - - Show Bio

Was the device similar to Brainiac's 5 Concentrator? Was the device capable of destroying the multiverse on a whim?

Also, where do you place Alexander Luthor Jr. in DC's hierarchy? The one from Infinite Crisis?

#34 Posted by DocFatalis (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@I_am_Warlock said:

@beatboks1 said:

chief, Ultra , and Palmer would match or come close to matching the three. Dox has outmanauvered beings with the knowledge of worlds. this isn't a n essy win for anyone

Could you put forward feats from Dc squad?

1. Lex Luthor

  • built armor that can go toe to toe with Superman and then failed miserably.
  • built a device that can harness the energy of spirit's ( magic) to harm Superman and then failed miserably.
  • able to adapt alien tech on the fly ( during Invasion) that he has just seen for the first time
  • gave hundreds of people super powers by altering their DNA which was a scam and killed most of them.
  • cloned his body to have a replacement when he was dying. Plot device if I have seen one.

Just to name a few

2. TO Morrow

  • Built a device that allowed him to see the through time and reverse engineer future technology
  • built the android Red Tornado ( with his powers)
  • Built other androids also with powers ( like tomorrow Woman who had TP/ TK)
  • built time machines
  • built other weaponry

3. The Chief - Leader and former of Doom Patrol

  • Built Robotman and transplanted the human brain of Cliff steel into it
  • treated negative man and cam up with the specially treated bandages that protected those around him from the readiation he gave off
  • Tactically matched at every turn a centuries old military Genius in General Immortus
  • Created an "immortality serum" that increases life span almost indefinitely
  • Creating a robot with sufficient medical knowledge to operate on himself when trapped
  • Manipulating and controlling the U.N and several political powers around the globe to unknowingly serve his plans
  • engineered the accidents that caused Cleff steel to be parralized so he would willingly become Robotman and the accident that would give Rita Farr her elastic powers. then manipulating both to serve his ends.

4. Ultra-Humanite

  • created robots that could fight superman
  • created death Ray's, teleporters, time machines, force filds and many other weapons capable of harming JSA and JLAers alike
  • perfected brain transplants in 1940
  • enpowered beings with super powers to be on the level of powerhouses ( Cyclotron, Deathbolt, Amazigman, Fairy Tales Fenton with the power of Thor)
  • empowered himself with mental powers to be able to fight Superman and Alan scot at the same time easily
  • genetically engineered the white ape body into which he transplanted his powerful brain to be able to physically match Superman, martian Manhunter and beat up Powergirl
  • take the reality warping powers of Johnny/Jakeem Thunder
  • infect the JSA with the stream of ruthfulness making them evil to fight their children knowing that whoever wins they would be destraught with grief ( after the effects wear off) and unable to fight him
  • Altered the cosmic balance in the multiverse so that all the heroes of Earth 2 ceased to have ever existed (manipulated the villains of E-1 to doing his dirty work by making them believe that it could have been their worlds heroes that went and only loosing because they undid their dirty work after he threw them back to their world.

5. Ray Palmer

  • created a device that could allow him to alter his molecular mass and size while trapped in a cave on the fly
  • Built the teleporters, force fields and other weaponry of the JLA Sataleite
  • Was shown in several "DC Big events" to be ahead of Luthor in his tech knowledge ( like in Invasion he was adapting alien tech to do more far quicker)
  • Built devices to traverse dimensions
  • built a device capable of multiversal destruction

6. Vril Dox - He's from L.E.G.I.O.N/ R.E.B.E.L.S not LoSH

  • Built devices that counter the powers of almost every super powered member of LEGION as a back up
  • genetically removed Lobo's ability to replicate
  • built an artificial intelligence that acted as a force field that could withstand the sun that can also tecnopathically control all tech
  • built a device that can drain the energy manipulation powers of Pulsar Stargrave ( Superman/ level and above)
  • genetically enhanced himself to be able to match Lobo in physical battle
  • outmaneuvered his smarter "father" Brainiac ( defeated his twice). y manipulating Brainiacs own motivations
  • Never trusting anyone always manipulates everyone (even his enemies) to do exactly what he want's them to do by setting events in motion that he knows their reactions will be the ones he wants to happen
  • tactically defeating empires and armadas on the fly, turning imminent losses in battle to victories

7. Will Magnus

  • created the metal men and the responsertron that gives them human characteristics
  • their base of operations and all the tech and weapons within
  • cloned his body for a replacement

@DocFatalis:

From what I can read here, Richards alone has feats outmatching the DC contestants. The three most important probably being inventing and harnessing the unstable molecules, discovering a way to travel through dimensions, inventing a math system allowing him to foretell the future.

The underlined feats have been done by Atom, Ultra, Morrow, Dox. Atom has created and controlled unsatble particles. Ultra, Morrow and Dox have all devloped future "viewers that see the exact future or alternates, Ultra, Atom, and Morrow have all developed ways of traveling through dimensions

I have stopped fixing at Luthor. The examples you provide are intently ignoring the end result or somehow exaggerate the credit that should be given to the maker. Do you want to talk about comics or do you want to pretend to be right?

#35 Posted by Needlebay (1935 posts) - - Show Bio

How is beatbok's exaggerating?

#36 Posted by benben178 (163 posts) - - Show Bio

Just when I made a reformed thread of mines, oh well I will still comment on this one I will go with DC, but @Needlebay: Check out the reformed thread that I made, it's a new thread with the same name except it says reformed at the end. lol but check it out, and put your 2 cents in.

#37 Edited by beatboks1 (7074 posts) - - Show Bio

@DocFatalis said:

@beatboks1 said:

@I_am_Warlock said:

@beatboks1 said:

chief, Ultra , and Palmer would match or come close to matching the three. Dox has outmanauvered beings with the knowledge of worlds. this isn't a n essy win for anyone

Could you put forward feats from Dc squad?

1. Lex Luthor

  • built armor that can go toe to toe with Superman and then failed miserably.
  • built a device that can harness the energy of spirit's ( magic) to harm Superman and then failed miserably.
  • able to adapt alien tech on the fly ( during Invasion) that he has just seen for the first time
  • gave hundreds of people super powers by altering their DNA which was a scam and killed most of them.
  • cloned his body to have a replacement when he was dying. Plot device if I have seen one.

Just to name a few

2. TO Morrow

  • Built a device that allowed him to see the through time and reverse engineer future technology
  • built the android Red Tornado ( with his powers)
  • Built other androids also with powers ( like tomorrow Woman who had TP/ TK)
  • built time machines
  • built other weaponry

3. The Chief - Leader and former of Doom Patrol

  • Built Robotman and transplanted the human brain of Cliff steel into it
  • treated negative man and cam up with the specially treated bandages that protected those around him from the readiation he gave off
  • Tactically matched at every turn a centuries old military Genius in General Immortus
  • Created an "immortality serum" that increases life span almost indefinitely
  • Creating a robot with sufficient medical knowledge to operate on himself when trapped
  • Manipulating and controlling the U.N and several political powers around the globe to unknowingly serve his plans
  • engineered the accidents that caused Cleff steel to be parralized so he would willingly become Robotman and the accident that would give Rita Farr her elastic powers. then manipulating both to serve his ends.

4. Ultra-Humanite

  • created robots that could fight superman
  • created death Ray's, teleporters, time machines, force filds and many other weapons capable of harming JSA and JLAers alike
  • perfected brain transplants in 1940
  • enpowered beings with super powers to be on the level of powerhouses ( Cyclotron, Deathbolt, Amazigman, Fairy Tales Fenton with the power of Thor)
  • empowered himself with mental powers to be able to fight Superman and Alan scot at the same time easily
  • genetically engineered the white ape body into which he transplanted his powerful brain to be able to physically match Superman, martian Manhunter and beat up Powergirl
  • take the reality warping powers of Johnny/Jakeem Thunder
  • infect the JSA with the stream of ruthfulness making them evil to fight their children knowing that whoever wins they would be destraught with grief ( after the effects wear off) and unable to fight him
  • Altered the cosmic balance in the multiverse so that all the heroes of Earth 2 ceased to have ever existed (manipulated the villains of E-1 to doing his dirty work by making them believe that it could have been their worlds heroes that went and only loosing because they undid their dirty work after he threw them back to their world.

5. Ray Palmer

  • created a device that could allow him to alter his molecular mass and size while trapped in a cave on the fly
  • Built the teleporters, force fields and other weaponry of the JLA Sataleite
  • Was shown in several "DC Big events" to be ahead of Luthor in his tech knowledge ( like in Invasion he was adapting alien tech to do more far quicker)
  • Built devices to traverse dimensions
  • built a device capable of multiversal destruction

6. Vril Dox - He's from L.E.G.I.O.N/ R.E.B.E.L.S not LoSH

  • Built devices that counter the powers of almost every super powered member of LEGION as a back up
  • genetically removed Lobo's ability to replicate
  • built an artificial intelligence that acted as a force field that could withstand the sun that can also tecnopathically control all tech
  • built a device that can drain the energy manipulation powers of Pulsar Stargrave ( Superman/ level and above)
  • genetically enhanced himself to be able to match Lobo in physical battle
  • outmaneuvered his smarter "father" Brainiac ( defeated his twice). y manipulating Brainiacs own motivations
  • Never trusting anyone always manipulates everyone (even his enemies) to do exactly what he want's them to do by setting events in motion that he knows their reactions will be the ones he wants to happen
  • tactically defeating empires and armadas on the fly, turning imminent losses in battle to victories

7. Will Magnus

  • created the metal men and the responsertron that gives them human characteristics
  • their base of operations and all the tech and weapons within
  • cloned his body for a replacement

@DocFatalis:

From what I can read here, Richards alone has feats outmatching the DC contestants. The three most important probably being inventing and harnessing the unstable molecules, discovering a way to travel through dimensions, inventing a math system allowing him to foretell the future.

The underlined feats have been done by Atom, Ultra, Morrow, Dox. Atom has created and controlled unsatble particles. Ultra, Morrow and Dox have all devloped future "viewers that see the exact future or alternates, Ultra, Atom, and Morrow have all developed ways of traveling through dimensions

I have stopped fixing at Luthor. The examples you provide are intently ignoring the end result or somehow exaggerate the credit that should be given to the maker. Do you want to talk about comics or do you want to pretend to be right?

So by that criteria most of Doom's feats are fail because of character driven failures??

Many of the failures you mentioned were only due to unknown outside intervention. Or the purpose of the invention didn't fail. For example Luthor's armor has stood up to superman but he never allows the battle to be played out for fear of discovery. The device to use spirits and magic was stopped by Question (Vic Sage) before used after he learned magic.

Also none of Dox's or the chief's feats were in anyway way a failure.

Ultra also succeeded in almost all of his ploys he was only ever defeated because a villain ally or a minion who served him turned sides. Every single defeat of the Ultra Humanite has been due to a former ally or minion turning against him ( or several) because he'd wronged them in achieving his aims. In his war against America Amazingman and cyclotron changed sides' in Inf Inc Brainwave Snr crossed him when he threatened his son. In JLA the secret society turned n him and so on. Can Doom blame the same for his losses?? Are you telling me that it would be easy for someone to predict that say Cheater would save her mortal enemy Wonder Woman so as to undo Ultra's plan. Or that Cyclotron would turn on Ultra even though Ultra has the cure for his daughters fatal infection. Or that the son of the Icicle would help the cause of Good even though he's a cold blooded killer. That Brainwave would help protect the team he had sought to defeat and destroy for four decades. Those are the types of factors that have undermined the Ultra Humanite and prevented his ultimate victories.

#38 Posted by overachiver (89 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ddecourt said:

You should've put Batman and Mr Terrific on the team. Marvel wins.

Batman might be one of the best when it comes to planning contingencies and counter meassures but he isn't top notch in the science department. He's probably on the same level as Black Panther is

That being said

@I_am_Warlock: Black Panther has made Mephisto look like a fool, and Doom stole the Beyonder's powers because he had a cosmic cube and used Klaw as a conduit. Doom didn't achieve omnipotence because he was smarter than everyone, he essentially lucked out or took advantage of another characters stupidity or ignorance like in Children';s Crusade

Not that I'm downplaying Doom though

I didn't even realize that Ultra Humanity was that intelligent

#39 Posted by beatboks1 (7074 posts) - - Show Bio

@overachiver said:

I didn't even realize that Ultra Humanity was that intelligent

Yeah Ultra was the first super genius enemy of Superman in the Golden age ( a few years before Luthor existed). Coincidently he started out as a bald scientist ( must have been a prerequisite to be a super scientist enemy of Supe's in the day). Of course with his transplanting his brain from body to body until he settled in the white age he genetically created to be the "perfect" vessel that didn't last long.

From the other thread where i put a little more detail into his feats

*copied*

Hope this helps to quantify Ultra's genius. There is a LOT more.

Time playing

This one shows Ultra's time machines that he's designed to actually be controlled by his mind from a distance. here he also "talks" to himself across decades

Cosmic thinking

Ultra playing with the cosmic balance of two worlds to eliminate all heroes from existence in his.

In doing so he tricked the villains of Earth one into serving him to do so by making them believe there was an equal chance that it would be their world that had no heroes when all was done. of course that wasn't the case and once they found out he BFR'd them back to their world where they eventually caused his defeat by undoing his cosmic tinkering

Brilliant inventor, master of medicine

Here we see Ultra creating deadly deseases, death rays, Robots to fight Superman, mechano-moles that dig through the earth, perfect brain transplants, teleporters, and other devices back in the 40's. Not to mention genetically design the ape body he's used for decades, the one that is physically able to match Superman, Martian Manhunter and beat up Powergirl.

His earlier defeats here were before he had acquired real power. When he was defeated by Superman he was only a normal scientist. He later acquired talismans of power that he used to give his mind great powers. powers that he retained even after the body he occupied at the time and the talismans were destroyed. His defeat in the later scan (ape Body) was because Brainwave Snr ( a long time ally) turned on him when he tried to harm his son and actually protected his enemies ( the JSA) from Ultra.

Masterful geneticist

Empowering normal humans with super powers. He gave Amazingman the power to alter his molecular structure, Deathbolt the power to throw lightning bolts, Cyclotron the power to blast nuclear energy- fly- alter the molecules of other things. Also Fairy tales Fenton was made strong and fast to be a Thor type character.

Considering that part of his genetics genius is also engineering the ape body as scans above showed that has physically matched Superman on several occasions as well as held it's own against a combined Supe's martian Manhunter and Guy Gardner and beat Powergirl to a bloody pulp this is definitely a field of expertise.

brilliant tactician

.

Here he had the JSA turned evil by the stream of ruthfulness so that they fought their children. In his own words whoever won he would as the winner would be consumed by the guilt of killing either their children or their parents (once the stream wore off on the JSA).

Let's consider that it took the JSA and Infinity Inc 12 issues to finally overcome the tactics he had layed out here. When you add that to the 7 issues and an annual it took tthe All Star Squadron ( a super team with 60 + members that included the JSA, Superman, Batman, and many others) to defeat him in his War against America and they were still only successful after two of his henchmen ( that he'd given their powers to) turned against him and gave the All Stars a moment of Surprise he's not easily defeated tactically

Abstract thinking

And here we see his time machines, Brain caps that overload the synapses so he can control hundreds without pushing his TP too far, and him taking the power of Yzz the 5th dimensional Imp Thunderbolt of Johnny and Jakeem Thunder.

He's also come close to Acquiring the power of Dr Fate twice and others.

And these are without showing many of his other inventions like force fields, death ray's, devices that control Volcanic activity (like he actually did in activating a dormant volcano to distract Superman so he could escape). It's also without using his TP and TK that is up their near the Martian manhunter.

IMHO he's always been DC's Doom

.

#40 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel. Doom had Beyonder's powers before. Thats Genius. I don't see anyone in DC team come close to stealing Lucifer's powers via tech.

Anyway Team Marvel ftw.

#41 Posted by BigCimmerian (8007 posts) - - Show Bio

DC team is DOOMED, but it would be close.

#42 Edited by xdm (550 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay said:

The science squad from DC's weekly comic, 52. Well, my version. Basically DC's greatest minds placed on one team. Each team here gets 5 days of prep.

1. Led by Lex Luthor

2. TO Morrow

3. The Chief

4. Ultra-Humanite

5. Ray Palmer

6. Vril Dox

7. Will Magnus

vs

1. Reed Richards

2. Tony Stark

3. Hank Pym

4. Amadeus Cho

5. Bruce Banner

6. Peter Parker

7. Dr. Doom

This thread is interesting.

No love for DC ;-)

Firstly...IMO Marvel team can be more impressive...you can swap some members with...High Evolutionary...Mandarin...Leader...Special Ultron (better than Pym...)...T...T...Thanos (OMG)

How do I analyse this battle.

For me your Marvel team.

Doom>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Richards>>>>>>>>>>>>>chumps

Doom is the top dog.

I'm pretty sure Needlebay has build a dc team that can handle 1.2.3.4.5.6.

But the last member (Doom) has many feats where he can achieve ABSTRACT / COSMIC level with prep time (for information H.E. too).

That's the big deal.

What can do DC team against it ?

I don't have the answer.

Maybe Beatboks or Needlebay have some scans.

So if DC team can achieve abstract level with prep time...I don't know why people come and say "Marvel"

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/abstract-luthor-vs-galactus/649540/?page=2

Here a little link.

However if their best feats are death ray...or armor...they are dead against Doom.

#43 Edited by entropy_aegis (15046 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ddecourt said:

You should've put Batman and Mr Terrific on the team. Marvel wins.

Neither of them bring anything new to the table,I'd rather the OP replaced the Chief and Humanite with Prometheus and Vandal Savage.@beatboks1: Who's the Chief? and Bruce Wayne doesn't seem that bad when you take in to account the Marvel team having Parker and Hulk.

@xdm: You're giving Doom too much credit,prep isn't just a random plot device to steal some omnipotent moron powers,and in Dooms case that's pretty much all he does.He has been outplayed by both T'Challa and the Intelligencia.

#44 Edited by entropy_aegis (15046 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

Marvel. Doom had Beyonder's powers before. Thats Genius. I don't see anyone in DC team come close to stealing Lucifer's powers via tech.

Anyway Team Marvel ftw.

Probably cause Lucifer is nowhere near as dumb as the Beyonder,on the contrary he may well be smarter than all these guys put together.Either way Lex did steel the Zone entity's power(possibly universal).

@The Stegman said:

Ugh, get Doom out of there, he's not fair.

Nah just give DC team Prometheus,he'll come up with the anti Doom spray lol.@Needlebay said:

Batman is inferior to everyone on DC team. Terrific, maybe, but pretty much all of DC can match him feat for feat.

But to be fair he specializes in psychology,understanding his enemies and tactics,he also created Brother Eye which could give the DC a HUGE benefit(but apparently he no longer created Brother eye in the DCNU soo......)

:when did lex create that spirit capturing device.

#45 Posted by beatboks1 (7074 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis:

The Chief is Niles Caulder head of the Doom Patrol. He orchestrated events so that Cliff Steele and Rita Farr had their respective accidents so that they would become Robotman and Elastigirl. He created the immortality Serum that gave him his and his secret wife Aranni greater longevity.

The Spirit "tuning fork" was built in the Veitch Question mini series. Question ( Vic Sage) during that series was upgraded to a mild mystic. he went to Metropolis because the city "called him". The spiirts of the city lead him to a site that was were an indian tribe had been slaughtered and their angry spirits still tainted the land. Luthor had come up with a way of combining that with (IIRC) the essence of the earth to make a mystical strike at Superman. Vic dealt with the spirits excorcising them

I like Savage but he's behind Ultra as a threat in my book as a threat to the JSA. More on a par with per Degaton ( another genius who has used his genius to become a powerful time manipulator and reality warper)

Vril Dox is better at psychology than Bruce. he manages to manipulate even his enemies to act as he wants them too. Not to mention control the actions of even those who don't trust him by playing on their distrust.

@xdm: If you look to the last post that I put scans into Ultra has also taken reality warping power. With prep he took the power the the 5th dimensional Imp Yzz and reality warped the world the way he wanted it (with him in control and most of Earths most powerful beings his mind slaves)

#46 Posted by entropy_aegis (15046 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Thanks,oh and now that you've mentioned fifth dimensional imps I recall Joker doing the same,going by Xdm's logic he should be here too lol.

#47 Posted by lol (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel

#48 Posted by MasterKungFu (1373 posts) - - Show Bio

IDK much about the science squad. Going Marvel geniuses

Online
#49 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (5059 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel