DC vs Marvel Skyfather-Level Teams

Some really aren't on skyfather level.Like Prime, Odin beats him senseless.

@ghostrider2: there's so such thing as sky father level, Odin is the most powerful and famous SF, so fans just made that up. It's actually Odin level.

Zeus is a sky father but he's definitely below Odin in power

Doesn't matter what you say about Zeus. People keep saying that he's Odin level when he lacks the feats.

@beatboks1: I wasn't arguing that Zeus would defeat anyone here, even more with his lack of feats. But the fact that he's on Odin level.

Actually, Marvel Handbook of 1996 put the term Skyfather as a leader of an pantheon.

I know Fate's feats, and I wasn't arguing against them.

I think Marvel team wins. Zeus should be Odin's equal and with Thanos on the team, I think it's too much for team 1, unless it's the Lord of Order Nabu itself, then I'd backup DC's team.

Team Marvel should win here

@jas0: OMG, it IS The Lord of Order Nabu himself. It states in the OP that it's Nabu as fate and the OP has answered that like 5 times through the thread.

Don't people read what they respond to???

Prime nor Thanos are skyfather level.

DC team

@beatboks1: It was ambiguous in the first page, if it was Nabu or not. I didn't read all the posts. Since it's Nabu I'll backup DC's team.

Zeus lacks feats.

If he really is on Odin's power-level, we knows that Odin jeopardized the Universe in his fight against Seth.

@realitywarper:

Classic Fate who is below Nabu by a bit fought and defeated beings who "jepordized" the universe. He defeated Ynar and Vandeamon who warped the universe out of existence. Spectre when not amped as he was in DoV "jepordized" two universes in All Star Squadron just by his presence between them. Again Classic Fate was able to fight him for seven pages and was only defeated by him with a bfr. Nabu fought Spectre when he was at much higher levels.

Aside from that if zeus doesnt have fea t s to match odin (which he doesnt and I can pull quite a few scans if needed that show him below Odin by quite a bit). Feats 》》》》 statements. Especially since skyfather doesnt refer to an actual power level! And it is in that regard that he is is stated to be on par with odin

In the scan you showed to me that's The Presence who destroy the Spectre and find him a new host because he broke the rules by attacking Nabu as I understand.

O_o and your point?? In order for an amped spectre who had absorbed most of the magic in the DCU after destroying most of the places of power in the DCU and most of the other high level magical entities to destroy Nabu he had to go all out.

The fight I referenced in that last post of "Classic Fate" (who isn't Nabu and not on his level, not even close) was of him fighting standard Jim Corrigan Spectre. You can find the images of that fight here where i loaded them before the rule change. Classic Fate can give standard Spectre a good fight, and loose. Nabu would also loose, but give a better fight.Nabu gave the amped Spectre of DoV the best fight he had of all DCU characters. he lasted even longer than Captain marvel who at the time was being amped by the fact that EVERY SINGLE DCU magic user was focusing their power through him to amp his levels. Every single DCU mystic giving everything they had to Cap and he didn't last as long as Nabu and didn't force Spectre to use the level of power that Nabu did to make the presence stop him.

The entire Marvel team in this battle wouldn't beat Spectre. Neither can anyone on the DC team (though in JLA Eclipso did steal the Starheart and kill Spectre with it's full power. I have seen some say it was a dream sequence and I've reread it several times after those statements and not seen any reference to that. However Eclipso is the former avatar of the Spectre so is pretty up there himself, so it doesn't really say that starheart would defeat him anyway).

No one on the Marvel side in this thread could stand up to the entire power of every single DCU mystic combined, yet we have canon proof that Nabu can take it to a higher level higher than that. Yes at the cost of his own existence, his energy was then spread across the multiverse. he would eventually return from this but it would take time. Who on team marvel can muster such a level??? who could put up a fight that literally pushes ALL the magic in existence to the brink? So an ALL out Nabu pushing beyond his limits can push spectre to levels he's never before touched upon, no one on team marvel can do this

I got your point and I agree that makes the feat impressive but isn't it more a question of raw power here ?

I mean I see the fight between Nabu and Spectre as a fight were the versatility doesn't matter at all.

Like two sources of magic fighting each other.

By the way do you imply that Nabu is an entity close to Marvel's Living Tribunal for exemple ?

thanos solos

@realitywarper: No Nabu isnt anywhere near LT, hell Spectre is below LT and hes above Nabu.

As for versatility Nabu has matter manipulation ( he taught Kent Nelson the " secret of molecular control" . He has tp, Tk etc and to a pretty high order. He has super strength etc (he pretty much made a point of making all his hosts super bricks). His versatility is greater than most.

I see.

Do you think that he is on par with Classic Dr Strange ?

Classic Dr Fate is on par with Classic Dr Strange. Nabu is higher.

Ok

@realitywarper: in terms of magic alone classic fate IMO is behind strange. He becomes Stran g e's equal because of his other powers (class 100 strength, invulnerability, tp, tk, matter manioulation)

As Willpayton said Nabunis above Fate by quite a bit. In the DCU the ammount of magic that can be wielded is determined by the type of being. Mortals cant wield as much power asmimortal (having mortal for) because drawing to much power throughntheir body can destroy them. To wield great power theyneither need Talismans or a familiar, or to control magic aroundmthem throughnsoells and incantations (zatanna).

When Nabu tooknon a mortal form he was only barely above fate, in energy form henisnconsiderably above fate. The reason Spectre is as powerful as he is is due to not being bound by mortal constraints. When Nabu placed his essense in the very mortal body of his former host (kent) he was vastly weaker than Classic Fate (because that body was damaged from decades of wielding great power through it)

That was why I asked early in the thread if this was energy form Nabu before making any type of call.

Hope that helps

In your opinion is Nabu above Galactus for exemple ?

Thanks for those precisions anyway.

marvel skyfathers

@realitywarper: not above, no. I would place him at Odin level and feats well untruly support that. Like Odin can gice Galactus a fightfight(headbut) so would Nabu innhis energy form. One of the DCU creation myths is that the conflict between the lords of Order and Chaos caused creation. There are of course several other myths but all can be tied together in a neat bow based on number of s t atements.

4th world omnibus refers to the god wave as the source of creation. The battle betweeen the LOO and LOC caused an energy wave.

In Arion creation was based on three characters but one was stated to be chaos and one was order.

In deadman we have the great rama kushna as creator but Phantom stranger stated once in a deadman story that the almighty has "mmany aspects" and rama is butnone (supported further when the end of creation based on the Rama myth was brought into beingnin Dr Fate title courtesy of Andrew Bennet at bequest of the LOO and realitt reset itseld only Bennet and Fate witnessed re-creation and the "wave" of energy that was a part of it- same series where issues later they mention stste LOO and LOC caused creation)

In Phantom stranger and hellblazer we have the presence stated to be creator but there is also the fact that the stranger has stated he used the lords of order and Chaos as a tool.

In WW we have creation by the greek gods but the history of Dr Fate covers in d e t ain how the lords of Order and chaos appeared to man as gods to gain power from their worship. Nabu chose instead to appear as a hero figure. He didnt require their complete devotion and as such it gave him greater power as he coukd be "hero worshiped by peOple who worshipped other gods. There was even a battle where he fought a god who was brought into being by the worship of devotees after the Lord of Chaos gave up the form. Combine thatnwith the fact that the Greek pantheon crested the Amazons so that theynwould always have worshipers and exist and you have support for the fact that they were originally Lords of Order and Chaos. Since some of them are also the source of power of a lord of order called shazam also supported.

Nabu is the most powerful Lord of Order, Mordru the most powerful Lord of Chas. Both would be damn close to even with Odin in power and all other Lords below them. Mordru is the only lord to have wielded great power in a mortal form by binding a second souk to his form (twomlife forces to draw power through). When he First took mortal form he was weak like others and easiky defeated by Amethyst in hisnplace of Power. He then merged the soul of the being he possessed with his own life force and was able to wield almost any le B el of power.

@beatboks1: Thanks :)

@realitywarper:

No probs

Here are some scans to support

Gallery

The first scan goes on about how their conflict created life throughout the universe.

Next three show Nabu limited in the mortal form of he dead former host. Even drawing the water back into his room from an overflown bath was a strain.

Then we see it shown that when Shat Ru (another lord of order) is bound into a mortal form he two will be limited.

Gallery

Here are a few scans of when Straus Fate along with Andrew Bennet witnessed "re-creation" after Bennet had caused the end of creation and the energy wave (which was caused by the aforementioned conflict).

Gallery

Here is Issue 2 of Amethyst (who BTW is another Lord of Order though revealed much later) she was able to best him fairly easily in his own place of power. When he later bonded the soul of Wrynn (the sorcerer he had possessed) she did not fair any where near as well.

Gallery

These are from Arion. The lord of Chaos Chaon and the Lord of Order Gemimn are the only two lords of the time ever referred to. They are all Chaos and all order in their story/time line and a conflict between then would "devastate" the universe. Several times through the series they were also referred to as the cause of creation.

Gallery

The we have Dr fate's various origins. Some pre some post Crisis and some contradictions. In some referred to being born half a million years ago, some millenia, others having existed before the universe. All showing him as a being of energy and how taking on mortal form limits him. Also show him knowing the "secret" of molecular control.

FTR I'm not saying who wins here. I didn't when I first posted a few pages ago (post 135 on page 3)because I believe arguments can be made either way. I just don't see this as an easy win for either side. In fact in that post all I said was that nabu should be able to beat any member of the Marvel team in a 1v1 (clear indication I DON'T place him anywhere near LT level). I actually called it a stalemate in that post

@realitywarper:

Ohh Forgot this one

Gallery

Mordru here emulating the best feat of Dormammu. Dormammu with the aid of his sister stole the power of a weakened Eternity (having had aspects of himself that he sent out to experience life not return and weaken him). Here Mordru with the help of Glorith steals the power of Infinite man the DCU kock of of Eternity (all space and time).

Mordru and Nabu are always depicted as equals. Their battles have gone either way every outing.