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#51 Posted by Killemall (18564 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: The reality was already crumbling before Prime even threw the punch.

And it was after all only a fake shielding created by Alex Luthor, which like you can see on panel was already began to warp, we can actually see pieces falling apart.

There however is a second instance with Superboy Prime and the Phantom Zone, which is genuine.

#52 Posted by Killemall (18564 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: I just noticed are you on the Sentry kick right now I've noticed you in all the Sentry threads lol. Is it because he's back from the grave?

hehe something like that.

Its more to do with the fact that , since Sentry return, i have been trying to collect and re-read all his past appearances from all realities. Helps me keep things on a certain character in perspective.

Also most of these thread, i normally get tagged into :p

This thread in particular however has Thanos in it :p i am hardly going to miss that ...;)

#53 Posted by BullPR (902 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Thank++ for the scans!

I didn't read these issues (obviously), could you give us their ref please?

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#54 Edited by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio
@bullpr said:

I didn't read these issues (obviously), could you give us their ref please?

Sentry versus Doctor Strange
Sentry #7 (Volume 2)

Reed Richards' and Doctor Strange's discussion
Sentry #3 (Volume 1)

The Void versus Marvel Earth
New Avengers #9 & #10 (Don't know which volume that was, but it should be from the year 2004 or 2005)

#55 Posted by green_skaar (4415 posts) - - Show Bio
#56 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Marvel.

Void/Sentry vs Superboy Prime = Sentry

Dr Fate vs Zeus = Zeus

Alan Scott with Full Starheart vs Thanos = Thanos

#57 Posted by BullPR (902 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru said:
@bullpr said:

I didn't read these issues (obviously), could you give us their ref please?

Sentry versus Doctor Strange

Sentry #7 (Volume 2)

Reed Richards' and Doctor Strange's discussion

Sentry #3 (Volume 1)

The Void versus Marvel Earth

New Avengers #9 & #10 (Don't know which volume that was, but it should be from the year 2004 or 2005)

Thank you!

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#58 Edited by WillPayton (9445 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Marvel.

Void/Sentry vs Superboy Prime = Sentry

Dr Fate vs Zeus = Zeus

Alan Scott with Full Starheart vs Thanos = Thanos

Nabu vs Zeus = Nabu

Alan Scott vs Thanos = Alan

#59 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio
#60 Edited by WillPayton (9445 posts) - - Show Bio

Nabu Dr Fate has gone up against and held off the Spectre. He didnt win, but held him off and took serious blows from a bloodlusted Spectre, which is something Zeus would not be able to do. Remember Nabu is the most powerful version of Fate, the most powerful Lord of Order in the DC universe.

#62 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1470 posts) - - Show Bio

Zeus was hurting galactus when he was a thrall of mikoboshi. So he wins i guess, and thanos will 10 to1 lose against starheart, that leaves void and zeus against star heart, they can pull it off

#63 Posted by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio

Zeus was hurting galactus when he was a thrall of mikoboshi. So he wins i guess, and thanos will 10 to1 lose against starheart, that leaves void and zeus against star heart, they can pull it off

Spectre is more powerful than Galactus and Zeus had a power upgrade during his encounter with Galactus, if I'm not wrong.

People are focusing way too much on this character versus character story.

THIS is the only way the beginning of the fight would look like:

The Void would raise his hands and start attacking the entire battlefield with his tentacles and eventually tag Superboy-Prime, who would curl up like a baby and start crying, because of the mind-rape. Thanos with his superior intelligence would see an opponent, who is down and make sure to finish Superboy-Prime off, while he is distracted / weakened.
Superboy-Prime would be the first one to go out, which would turn it into a 3v2. Then there is the question if Alan Scott and Doctor Fate can truly resist to Void's mind-rape, which is not based on telepathy, but on empathy and it looks like you need special kinds of defenses against that, since the Void was capable of mind-raping Hulk and Thor and they both are either supposed to be immune to telepathy, or they at least have some serious resistances to it.

#64 Posted by WillPayton (9445 posts) - - Show Bio

Zeus was hurting galactus when he was a thrall of mikoboshi. So he wins i guess, and thanos will 10 to1 lose against starheart, that leaves void and zeus against star heart, they can pull it off

Zeus was being amped by Mikaboshi in that fight. The writer said as much.

Pak: I think that is Zeus fighting Galactus, but there is a point where Galactus says — I’m paraphrasing here — “Hey, you’re a little stronger than the average Skyfather.” So I think Zeus is definitely is being augmented by the Chaos King. The Chaos King, as we discover — spoiler alert! — is using Zeus as a Trojan horse. So some of that incredible power that Zeus is displaying comes from the Chaos King.

#65 Edited by Sebast_Allen (1470 posts) - - Show Bio

Cool interperatation enzeru, and zeus could just fill in if or when help is needed. Sorr payton, i didnt know, though it would probably go how enzeru said it would.

#66 Posted by WillPayton (9445 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru said:

The Void would raise his hands and start attacking the entire battlefield with his tentacles and eventually tag Superboy-Prime, who would curl up like a baby and start crying, because of the mind-rape. Thanos with his superior intelligence would see an opponent, who is down and make sure to finish Superboy-Prime off, while he is distracted / weakened.

Superboy-Prime would be the first one to go out, which would turn it into a 3v2. Then there is the question if Alan Scott and Doctor Fate can truly resist to Void's mind-rape, which is not based on telepathy, but on empathy and it looks like you need special kinds of defenses against that, since the Void was capable of mind-raping Hulk and Thor and they both are either supposed to be immune to telepathy, or they at least have some serious resistances to it.

Problem is that at the beginning Alan will also mentally attack everyone on team Marvel. And we havent discussed it, but Nabu also has telepathic/psychic powers. But, Alan alone already showed the ability to mentally-control even high-end telepaths like Fate and Miss Martian. I think the way it goes is that the TP powers of each team stalemate, both attacking and defending against each other.

If SBP falls to a TP attack, it's also possible that Void falls. They are both mentally unstable.

And that's not it, Alan also has other powers like time manipulation. He would be capable of simply slowing down time for the other team to a standstill. He has done it before, to an entire planet, and he wasnt even using the full Starheart at the time.

#67 Posted by WillPayton (9445 posts) - - Show Bio

Cool interperatation enzeru, and zeus could just fill in if or when help is needed. Sorr payton, i didnt know, though it would probably go how enzeru said it would.

His interpretation relies on team Marvel overwhelming the mental abilities of team DC... which I dont see happening. Dr Fate could mentally fight with Thanos, and Alan with Void. While that's happening SBP can fight Zeus. But, since SBP is invulnerable to magic and reality warping, it's a major problem for Zeus.

There's also other things to consider: Nabu can take the fight to the Astral plane. What happens to Void if he gets taken there? Alan can slow time for the opposing team. Nabu also has time-travel abilities.

Another thing, if we're looking at magical abilities... team DC has Starheart and Nabu, two top-tier DC magical powerhouses.

#68 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1470 posts) - - Show Bio

Pak also said zeus was no pushover, i dont think zeus would be affected by timemanipulation on account of his godliness, also he would be spamming lightning so much that star heart might not be able to concentrate on a TP battle. Thanos is no joke, he will probably be sporting an assortment of weapoms to attack with, he could take superboy and let void focus on the heavy hitters. Void also has matter mapulation if it helps (he can come back from anything) and im not sure time manip would work on him or thanos.

#69 Edited by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Zeus has taken on Celestials. He's a casual Galaxy Buster he's on the level of Odin. and Odin has taken on the likes of Galactus and Thanos. Zeus would obliterate him.

#70 Posted by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the way it goes is that the TP powers of each team stalemate, both attacking and defending against each other.

I like the way you think.
That's what I'm always saying. When it comes to the Sentry / the Void we never really saw their telepathic limits, because they already took everything Marvel Earth threw at them in terms of telepathy and laughed at it in the process.
Saying that a character with more telepathic feats than Xavier takes Void out is kinda unfair, because we don't know if he would be Void's limit. Therefore I personally go with a stalemate and concentrate on the other powers.

If SBP falls to a TP attack, it's also possible that Void falls. They are both mentally unstable.

No, that's not really the same. Sentry and Void were never really affected by telepathy, so we don't even really know how it works on them. Void on the other hand is attacking with empathy. He is not attacking your mind - he is making your mind attack you instead by confronting you with bad moments in your life and causing you pain with that.

But there was an instance where Sentry straight up got mind-controled. It was when Venus seduced him and her origin / powers are supposed to have a mystical origin, so who knows.
I personally don't buy that and rather go with the possibility that Sentry did what she wanted, because she was freakin' naked! Who wouldn't listen to a hot, naked chick?!

And that's not it, Alan also has other powers like time manipulation. He would be capable of simply slowing down time for the other team to a standstill. He has done it before, to an entire planet, and he wasnt even using the full Starheart at the time.

I don't have a counter argument for that, because Sentry and Void never had to deal with something like that, even though you would expect someone like Doctor Strage to know a thing or two about time-stopping. But since it never occured, it might be a viable strategy.

#71 Posted by WillPayton (9445 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru said:
@willpayton said:

And that's not it, Alan also has other powers like time manipulation. He would be capable of simply slowing down time for the other team to a standstill. He has done it before, to an entire planet, and he wasnt even using the full Starheart at the time.
I don't have a counter argument for that, because Sentry and Void never had to deal with something like that, even though you would expect someone like Doctor Strage to know a thing or two about time-stopping. But since it never occured, it might be a viable strategy.

I found the scan of the time manipulation feat. He basically decides to age a planet until it's destroyed... millions, billions of years? And he does it with just his "normal" powers... i.e. without accessing the full Starheart, which would result in him being possessed, as in this fight.

Obviously this is something he rarely uses because of morals, but he's pretty much without morals in this fight.

#72 Posted by WillPayton (9445 posts) - - Show Bio

Pak also said zeus was no pushover

I never said he was.

i dont think zeus would be affected by timemanipulation on account of his godliness

"godliness" doesnt mean anything.

also he would be spamming lightning so much that star heart might not be able to concentrate on a TP battle.

That would make no difference to Alan. He can easily concentrate on fighting the entire team mentally, physically, and magically at the same time. He's not human, and he soloed DC Earth with little trouble.

Thanos is no joke, he will probably be sporting an assortment of weapoms to attack with

I know Thanos is no joke, but he also has no prep here. Standard equipment only.

he could take superboy and let void focus on the heavy hitters. Void also has matter mapulation if it helps (he can come back from anything) and im not sure time manip would work on him or thanos.

Those things are debatable. Thanos, Void, and Zeus have good matter manipulation, but so do Alan and Nabu. And, SBP is immune to it.

As far as time manipulation... I dont see why it wouldnt work on anyone on team Marvel. Maybe Zeus would be immune due to magic, I dont know.

#73 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1470 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: zeus and sentry/void/bob seem to be immortal and thanos idk but i think him too, so i dont think it would work on them, and im sure he wouldnt do that during a heated battle where lightning is being shot the size of buildings, minds being attacked and weapons being fired.

#74 Edited by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio

I found the scan of the time manipulation feat. He basically decides to age a planet until it's destroyed... millions, billions of years? And he does it with just his "normal" powers... i.e. without accessing the full Starheart, which would result in him being possessed, as in this fight.

That might be something different, from what I'm reading on the scan. He says that he will accelerate the flow of time to kill everything on Earth, but did he ever stop time itself so that nothing was able to make any move?
Couldn't it be argued that killing Void via time-acceleration would be impossible, since he is immortal and won't die of old-age? If that's how it works for the Sentry, which I think it is, because when he started remembering that he was the Sentry, he also started getting younger again until he reached his perfect age. Judging by his origin he got his super-soldier-serum dose shortly after Captain America, who was frozen for many years and didn't age, while Sentry simply stopped aging (but that argument is weird, because of few other Marvel characters. Not all of them since Spider-Man got a lot older, but others not so much).

#75 Edited by X_insignia1 (1393 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:

"godliness" doesnt mean anything.

Actually it does in a sense, hence why Ares was able to follow Shaman Nate Grey into planck length. When Shaman X-Man used his time manipulation abilities he stated Ares was only able to follow him into planck length because war exist on all planes of existence.

#76 Edited by WillPayton (9445 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: zeus and sentry/void/bob seem to be immortal and thanos idk but i think him too, so i dont think it would work on them, and im sure he wouldnt do that during a heated battle where lightning is being shot the size of buildings, minds being attacked and weapons being fired.

Death is not required for a win. Alan Scott is also immortal, and so is Nabu. It took the Spectre to be able to kill Nabu. I dont think Zeus or Thanos are, although Thanos might come back from the dead. Still, one death would suffice for a win.

In any case, Zeus can spam lightning all he wants, it really wont distract Alan. Alan was able to mind-control people across the Earth including high-level telepaths and Dr Fate, cause city-destroying natural disasters across the world, fight everyone on Earth with constructs, teleport around and physically fight people like Power Girl and Supergirl just for the fun of it, and grant humans powers like gravity manipulation, all at the same time... from the Moon. And, he wasnt even trying that hard.

#77 Edited by heroesgold (608 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Team Marvel has a chance, but Alan and Nabu are going to be some hard opponents. It can go either way.

#78 Posted by WillPayton (9445 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru said:
@willpayton said:

I found the scan of the time manipulation feat. He basically decides to age a planet until it's destroyed... millions, billions of years? And he does it with just his "normal" powers... i.e. without accessing the full Starheart, which would result in him being possessed, as in this fight.

That might be something different, from what I'm reading on the scan. He says that he will accelerate the flow of time to kill everything on Earth, but did he ever stop time itself so that nothing was able to make any move?

Couldn't it be argued that killing Void via time-acceleration would be impossible, since he is immortal and won't die of old-age? If that's how it works for the Sentry, which I think it is, because when he started remembering that he was the Sentry, he also started getting younger again until he reached his perfect age. Judging by his origin he got his super-soldier-serum dose shortly after Captain America, who was frozen for many years and didn't age, while Sentry simply stopped aging (but that argument is weird, because of few other Marvel characters. Not all of them since Spider-Man got a lot older, but others not so much).

I'm not sure if he can completely stop time, but he can certainly speed it up or slow it down. I wasnt even saying he could take down Void with it, but it'd certainly make the fight a lot easier if you can slow down time for the other team.

@willpayton said:

"godliness" doesnt mean anything.

Actually it does in a sense, hence why Ares was able to follow Shaman Nate Grey into planck length. When Shaman X-Man used his time manipulation abilities he stated Ares was only able to follow him into planck length because war existed on all planes of existence.

I mean that being a "god" or "godliness" (whatever that is) is meaningless, it's just a title. Feats and powers matter, being a god doesnt. Gods get defeated all the time by non-gods.

#79 Edited by Galactus616 (81 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably D.C. but Idk for sure because of Zeus and his powers.

#80 Edited by Killemall (18564 posts) - - Show Bio
@bullpr said:

@enzeru said:
@bullpr said:

I didn't read these issues (obviously), could you give us their ref please?

Sentry versus Doctor Strange

Sentry #7 (Volume 2)

Reed Richards' and Doctor Strange's discussion

Sentry #3 (Volume 1)

The Void versus Marvel Earth

New Avengers #9 & #10 (Don't know which volume that was, but it should be from the year 2004 or 2005)

Thank you!

Enzeru gave you the whole issue list, makes my job easier :p

That last one is New Avengers volume 1.

#81 Posted by BullPR (902 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Yep. I will probably buy the Sentry paperback. Didn't find it today in the Comic Book shop, so Amazon will probably be my friend here...

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#82 Posted by Empurios (76 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru said:

Let me throw out something:

Superboy-Prime is an mentally unstable and very emotional character. In my opinion he is canon fodder for the Void, who would mind-rape him instantly via empathy. He would confront Superboy-Prime with his miserable past, where everyone he loved died and where he also tried to be a hero, yet killed so many people - his sad presence, where he is getting spanked by powerful forces and is away from his girlfriend Laurie and his terrible future, where he might be the one, who kills Laurie and everyone else he knows.

Superboy-Prime would end up in a state of shock and either not be able to continue to fight - or he would be an easy target for Thanos and Zeus and I see Thanos, Void and Zeus being physically capable of harming him big time.

That would turn the fight into a 3v2.

Is there a way for Superboy-Prime to avoid empathic mind-rape from the Void? Does he have something against it? From what I know he doesn't and it would affect him, due to his nature.

I don't see his speed being all too much of a factor in character, since he tends to talk way too much and mock his opponents, while Void would simply one-shot him. I also don't see his invulnerability being a factor, because Void's tentacles are intangible and pass through invulnerable bodies and still affect them.

Then there is the question if Alan Scott and Doctor Fate can guard him against Void's empathic attack, or if they would end up having to deal with their inner demons as well.

If someone can prove me wrong, I'm willing to re-consider, but for now I'm going with Team Marvel, mainly because of the Void.

THIS PWNS

#83 Posted by WillPayton (9445 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#84 Edited by lol (5003 posts) - - Show Bio

team dc

#85 Posted by mikep12 (4142 posts) - - Show Bio

DC

#86 Edited by mace11 (255 posts) - - Show Bio

The sentry at full power is around - Tier 11 above skyfather and i think that includes the void,but i read that the sentry could beat the void.

The void and the sentry are not the same by the way.

KIng hyperion is maybe tier 10 because he killed galactus.

It had to be a average or weaker galactus but even a weaken

galactus is still around a tier 10 i think while average galactus is a stronger tier 10.

#87 Posted by lol (5003 posts) - - Show Bio
#88 Posted by lol (5003 posts) - - Show Bio

someone write in other post why void would solo this fight runs

#89 Edited by Cgoodness (4607 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say the teams are mostly Team Busters not Skyfathers

#90 Posted by Newblood2333 (127 posts) - - Show Bio

Team wins. The Void is a beast. The only person that can beat him is the sentry holding him back.

#91 Posted by WillPayton (9445 posts) - - Show Bio
#92 Posted by Newblood2333 (127 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: he's a beast. He beat molecule man at his own game. No one else has beaten molecule man since he has been able to control organic molecules.

#93 Posted by Dredeuced (5538 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: he's a beast. He beat molecule man at his own game. No one else has beaten molecule man since he has been able to control organic molecules.

You said "Team wins," when there are two teams.

#94 Edited by christianrapper (1098 posts) - - Show Bio

d.c. team wins. sbp is immune to magic and reality warping.

#95 Posted by TheKing47 (961 posts) - - Show Bio

@christianrapper:

Void will turn him into a turd with his matter manipulation.

Also he's not immune to reality warping, are you saying LT couldn't warp him from existence if he wanted to?

Marvel team win.

#96 Posted by Apocalypse3 (1487 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathmedal: no definetly sky father but Phoenix stomps starheart

#97 Posted by laflux (15895 posts) - - Show Bio

DC ftw. I'd say Starheart is the most powerful out of everyone here, and Zeus is a weak link in his team.

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#98 Posted by Kingant27 (4933 posts) - - Show Bio

Very close battle, it can go either way.

#99 Posted by Awesomedude (2144 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with a slight majority to DC, due to Nabu and Starheart.

#100 Posted by Night4345 (4164 posts) - - Show Bio

DC.

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