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#51 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, well than, Proffessor X can just like, control Flash and make him work for Marvel, and kill himself afterwards. Or Molecule man can make impenetrable wall of air. and while preparations are being made, Molecule man can protect the marvel universe until later. Also, what about Sandman? He can surprise Flash. And Stark can make a bomb that stops the powers outside of the shield. (This discussion is going to go on forever until we say tie)

#52 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7469 posts) - - Show Bio

also jean grey can just lift flash into the air so can't run

#53 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Marvel would win too but just barely. Buck has it right about Flash and DC loads up with really powerful characters. The GL corps, the Daxamites, Darkseid's whole world of super beings. The New Gods with the absurdly powerful Orion and his mother box that makes him a reality warper. But I think this battle would come down to the reality warpers and the most powerful of them would win. Marvel's chock full of telepaths who could reach out and take over some of DC's people. Moondragon took over an entire planet once and she isn't even close to one of the telepathic powerhouses at Marvel. Look at Phoenix, Professor X, Cassandra Nova... the list goes on. Marvel's powerhouses are more subtle than DC's but they are quite powerful.

#54 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Too true Forever. Way too true. DC just has alot of physically powerful guys, Marvel has more like special ability powerhouses. And the way I see, it, a wins a win

#55 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

Eternal Chaos says:

"Ok, well than, Proffessor X can just like, control Flash and make him work for Marvel, and kill himself afterwards. Or Molecule man can make impenetrable wall of air. and while preparations are being made, Molecule man can protect the marvel universe until later. Also, what about Sandman? He can surprise Flash. And Stark can make a bomb that stops the powers outside of the shield. (This discussion is going to go on forever until we say tie)"

None of those things can happen faster than Flash can stop the characters from doing them. Aside from that, MM could stop Xavier since he's a better psychic, Molecule Man's wall can be phased through, Sandman is a joke, and Stark isn't building any kind of machine in the time allowed, even if Flash doesn't smoke him right away. This "discussion" will go on until you know learn something about DC.

Forever says:

"I think Marvel would win too but just barely. Buck has it right about Flash and DC loads up with really powerful characters. The GL corps, the Daxamites, Darkseid's whole world of super beings. The New Gods with the absurdly powerful Orion and his mother box that makes him a reality warper. But I think this battle would come down to the reality warpers and the most powerful of them would win. Marvel's chock full of telepaths who could reach out and take over some of DC's people. Moondragon took over an entire planet once and she isn't even close to one of the telepathic powerhouses at Marvel. Look at Phoenix, Professor X, Cassandra Nova... the list goes on. Marvel's powerhouses are more subtle than DC's but they are quite powerful."

Most reality warper's would suffer from the same speed disadvantage as the other characters. Not only that, but DC has reality warpers too and I don't see what makes Marvel's better than DC's. Marvel has telepaths, but the few DC has are (in my opinion) far superior. How often does Xavier (one of, if not the, best telepaths in Marvel) read the minds of everyone on the planet at once? I don't recall it ever happening, and definitely not without tech support. Martian Manhunter's done it a few times. He's also used his TP to take down gods and even Spectre once. Darkseid's easily controlled billions of aliens at once as well. That's just two telepaths, and again, Marvel's telepaths wouldn't be able to stop a speed blitz, something many DC characters are capable of. Not only that, DC brings the magic. Yeah, Marvel has a handful of powerful magic users, but I don't think a handful is enough.

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#56 Posted by Marrduke (82 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel used to be the "house of Ideas" where the writers would pull from greek myth, classic opera's and plays, and a genuine knowledge of science, physics, and history. They were MUCH better than DC

-NOW, They're prime scource of ideas comes from film and TV from the last decade.. They've grounded everything out into our reality, dumbed everyone down (powers and imaginative writing), Made EVERYONE the "anti-hero", and pretty much forgotten what comics are all about. The writers are too busy trying to write scripts for the WB, and a hollywood film, filled with hallow trite dialogue (see Brian Michael Bendis for any example), that has no real substance, but rather just filler until they get to the "money shot". You are no longer in the character's head participating, but merely a spectator watching events unfold.

DC is by far the superior storytellers now.

-Characters- BOTH have GTREAT Hero's and villans.

-Batman is probably one of the greatest heroes ever made for DC, and Spidey is one of the greatest in MArvel

  • 5 years ago I would have said DC would win,..but now MArvel brings in the Sentry (Super-man rip off), and makes Black Panther the "marvel" dark knight,..so now, they are pretty equal. I guess it would depend on who's writting.
#57 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

All Molecule man has to do is think about making a wall, that's it, and he can do it. Magneto's helmet protect him from psychic attacks. Just like the Juggernaut's. Sandman's not really much of a joke. He can catch Flash of guard by like punching him randomly, or turning into a giant sandstorm. Stark has incredible technology, and if anything, he can open a portal into the negative zone. And If marvel's at its highest possible power (dc is always there which is cheezy btw)Than Marvel will have a better chance.

#58 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

While Molecule Man is thinking, Flash can blast through him. He could also wait until the wall is there and just phase through it. Or he could just tell Zatanna to shut him down with magic or Martian Manhunter to turn off his brain. Where did Magneto and Juggernaut come from? Whatever, Flash traps them in the speed force. Sandman is a joke. Flash can phase through him and leave him for someone else to take care of (Superman can do it with heat vision). Stark's technology can't do anything if he hasn't built it yet. You're saying he can build an entirely new device faster than Flash can punch him. The portal won't do anything unless Flash goes through it. Try again. (Later though, I'm about to leave.)

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#59 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7469 posts) - - Show Bio

molecule man can turn flash into stone

#60 Posted by Marrduke (82 posts) - - Show Bio

answer for flash.....the runner...The Runner (Elder of the Universe) doesn't just "run" fast. he moves through time at a fraction of a thought, giving the appearance of speed. while flash CAN run that fast,....he cannot sustain it for very long.

-AND........Flash would never get near molecule man.......like was said in another post Molecule man can sense when the celestials are watching him....I think he could deal with the flash and turn his legs and arms into stone.

-AND flash would never resort to killing

-AND Magneto could stop flash on his tracks by manipulating the iron in his blood, after professor X makes flash think he's actually beating everyone up.

-AND THANOS would already have conterngency plan for the "mighty" flash, after staring into the infinity well

-AND the Sentry could annihilate flash with a fraction of his powers.............

-AND kitty pride could stay intangible hidding inside colossus, wait on the flash to run by and rip his heart out

-AND Scarlet witch could just "wish" his powers away.

Try again......

#61 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Molecule Man can make the Wall impenatrable dude, unphasable. And if anything, he can make Stark extremely fast and able to do this. Him and Reed Richards. The Juggernaut and Magneto come because you mentioned mind control so picture those helmets on marvel's characters. If sandman is a giant sandstorm, flash is going to get confused. and lost. And Proffesor X can turn flash against his own. As far as Superman is concerned, Gladiator can handle him. Zatanna will have to deal with either Pheonix or Franklin. And Dr. Strange can create magical barriers.

#62 Posted by Marrduke (82 posts) - - Show Bio

Super Man is succeptable to MAGIC

two words

1) THOR

2) Mjolnir

-nuff said

#63 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

There's an awful lot of characters who are fighting. None of them know anything about any of the others, or at least only a few of them have an idea about a few of the others on the other side. By the time Flash takes out the first guy, Silver Surfer might notice him and very quickly eliminate him.

I dont think Martian Manhunter is even close to Phoenix's level and she could detect all of DC's telepaths and tear them apart with a thought... well Jean may not have the full phoenix force for this fight but if she does, then it could be a go.

I know DC's characters are insanely powerful, but with but a few people with the right powers, Marvel can turn the tide. It just depends on what each side does as the first move.

#64 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Marrduke my good man, thank you.

#65 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Marrduke says:

"answer for flash.....the runner...The Runner (Elder of the Universe) doesn't just "run" fast. he moves through time at a fraction of a thought, giving the appearance of speed. while flash CAN run that fast,....he cannot sustain it for very long. -AND........Flash would never get near molecule man.......like was said in another post Molecule man can sense when the celestials are watching him....I think he could deal with the flash and turn his legs and arms into stone. -AND flash would never resort to killing -AND Magneto could stop flash on his tracks by manipulating the iron in his blood, after professor X makes flash think he's actually beating everyone up. -AND THANOS would already have conterngency plan for the "mighty" flash, after staring into the infinity well -AND the Sentry could annihilate flash with a fraction of his powers............. -AND kitty pride could stay intangible hidding inside colossus, wait on the flash to run by and rip his heart out -AND Scarlet witch could just "wish" his powers away. Try again......"

The Runner... nice call Marrduke

#66 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Beautiful. I agree with both Forver and Marrduke. And we can't forget about our favorite Symbiotes either now can we?

#67 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

Marrduke says:

"answer for flash.....the runner...The Runner (Elder of the Universe) doesn't just "run" fast. he moves through time at a fraction of a thought, giving the appearance of speed. while flash CAN run that fast,....he cannot sustain it for very long. -AND........Flash would never get near molecule man.......like was said in another post Molecule man can sense when the celestials are watching him....I think he could deal with the flash and turn his legs and arms into stone. -AND flash would never resort to killing -AND Magneto could stop flash on his tracks by manipulating the iron in his blood, after professor X makes flash think he's actually beating everyone up. -AND THANOS would already have conterngency plan for the "mighty" flash, after staring into the infinity well -AND the Sentry could annihilate flash with a fraction of his powers............. -AND kitty pride could stay intangible hidding inside colossus, wait on the flash to run by and rip his heart out -AND Scarlet witch could just "wish" his powers away. Try again......"

You act like I'm using Flash alone to face Marvel. I'm not. I'm just saying that he could lay waste to at least half of Marvel's Earth-based heroes. There are some who could survive (with time to think), but most couldn't, that's why he's just the first wave. Also, you bringing in The Runner takes the fight back to an abstract/god-being thing and it becomes a stalemate again. (Read my previous posts, I covered this already.) Again with Molecule Man, just because he knows something is coming, doesn't mean he can stop it. Spider-Man would know Flash was coming even before he got to him (something Molecule Man wouldn't know) but that doesn't mean he could avoid him. Until Molecule Man exibits FTL reaction times, Flash will take him down. And in an all-out multiversal battle, of course both sides are going to be going for the kill. Even if they weren't though, it wouldn't stop Flash from simply throwing everyone he came across into the Speed Force.

Magneto and Prof X: Neither can react faster than Flash.

Thanos: Any planning assumes prep time. Also, Thanos' inclusion makes it at least a cosmic-level battle. I addressed that already.

Sentry: One of the few who could possibly react to Flash, but Flash could always hit him with a few IMPs (the guy is currently getting his ass handed to him by a robotic transvestite, some IMPs would do major damage) and failing that, Flash could toss him in the Speed Force. Don't say that's lame, Sentry tosses everything in the sun.

Kitty Pryde: Won't/Can't react fast enough to phase before he got to her (since she'd most likely have no warning) and even if she did, she doesn't have the reaction time to rip anything off of or out of a running Flash.

Scarlet Witch: Before she can get out the words "No more Flash" she'd be dead. Failing that, Zatanna shuts down the witch with, "Adnaw erom on."

Eternal Chaos says:

"Molecule Man can make the Wall impenatrable dude, unphasable. And if anything, he can make Stark extremely fast and able to do this. Him and Reed Richards. The Juggernaut and Magneto come because you mentioned mind control so picture those helmets on marvel's characters. If sandman is a giant sandstorm, flash is going to get confused. and lost. And Proffesor X can turn flash against his own. As far as Superman is concerned, Gladiator can handle him. Zatanna will have to deal with either Pheonix or Franklin. And Dr. Strange can create magical barriers."

Molecule Man has been dealt with. Stark and Reed aren't building anything, give it a rest. Juggs and Magneto can be taken out without mind control, I just brought up MM and Darkseid (only two people) because it seemed that DC's psychic resources were being overlooked. Sandman is, and will remain a joke. Why is Flash going to be confused by something he can phase through? If he can't kill it with one punch or toss it in the speed force on the first go, he'd probably leave it to someone else later. Like I said, he's just the first wave, not the complete attack. Professor X has already been dealt with. The inclusion of Gladiator makes it a cosmic level fight, see my previous posts. Zatanna isn't the only one who can deal with Phoenix (who hasn't actually done anything deserving of the name for a long time) and Franklin Richards (who A. is a child, B. doesn't have the reaction time to survive Flash's initial assault, and C. if I remember right, is depowered). Strange is powerful and you're selling Marvel short by sticking him with "magical barrier duty".

Marrduke says:

"Super Man is succeptable to MAGIC two words 1) THOR 2) Mjolnir -nuff said"

Superman is susceptible to magic. True. However, Superman isn't the only one fighting. Why would he go after the guy who's not only on his level, but is powered by his weakness? He can let someone else handle Thor, I mean, there are other heroes in the DCU besides Superman.

Forever says:

"There's an awful lot of characters who are fighting. None of them know anything about any of the others, or at least only a few of them have an idea about a few of the others on the other side. By the time Flash takes out the first guy, Silver Surfer might notice him and very quickly eliminate him. I dont think Martian Manhunter is even close to Phoenix's level and she could detect all of DC's telepaths and tear them apart with a thought... well Jean may not have the full phoenix force for this fight but if she does, then it could be a go. I know DC's characters are insanely powerful, but with but a few people with the right powers, Marvel can turn the tide. It just depends on what each side does as the first move."

Surfer makes it a cosmic battle. Addressed already. I would say MM isn't on the same level as Phoenix, but like I've said, he's easily put Gods (not losers like Thor) to sleep and thrown Spectre (on the level of Living Tribunal) for a loop. Maybe he wins, maybe he doesn't, but he's not the only one there either. Kyle Rayner could handle Phoenix. (When I say handle, I don't necessarily mean beat, I mean keep her in a continuous battle for as long as is needed).

The DC guys may be overpowered (compared to Marvel's guys) but that's who they are. You don't have to like it, but it's there. I'm not talking to you Forever, but there's a lot of anti-DC sentiment from a few of the others.

The first move is very important, that's why I started this whole thing with Flash.

Eternal Chaos says:

"Beautiful. I agree with both Forver and Marrduke."

What a surprise.

Eternal Chaos says:

"And we can't forget about our favorite Symbiotes either now can we?"

The symbiotes are nothing.


I'm not asking you guys to give up, but think about it. You've mentioned so many characters and I've yet to bring up anyone outside of the JLA (except for Kyle, but that's a special case) and Darkseid (but only as an example of psychic power, just one of his powers). If you (and Marvel) are having such a hard time with one team, do you think it will get easier when the rest of DC comes in? What about the WSU?

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#68 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

All you would have to do is keep Flash of Wanda long enough for her to say everyone freeze, or freeze, would Flash know to take her out right away? There's alot of people in the Marvel U, would he know to go for her first? I think not.

#69 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

i dont get the flash? does he have super strength? cause if he ran at speed then hit someone he would break his hand if not his whole arm. when a car hits another car they both get smashed. if he doesn't have super strength then he's not logical

#70 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Gambler says:

"All you would have to do is keep Flash of Wanda long enough for her to say everyone freeze, or freeze, would Flash know to take her out right away? There's alot of people in the Marvel U, would he know to go for her first? I think not. "

Not saying he'd go for her first, but if he's starting his attack in New York (the largest concentration of powered individuals) he'd come across her within the first second. Even if he didn't, and she had time, she wouldn't know he was coming. Assuming anyone in the area of his first attack survives, how are they going to get out any warning that will reach their allies before he does? Also, Zatanna can do the same exact thing Wanda did. Just because Wanda did it (twice in all of her history btw) on a larger scale, doesn't mean she's cornered the market on powerful and short spells.

Rotten gun says:

"i dont get the flash? does he have super strength? cause if he ran at speed then hit someone he would break his hand if not his whole arm. when a car hits another car they both get smashed. if he doesn't have super strength then he's not logical "

That's ignorance of the character and his abilities. The Speed Force protects him from all the pesky laws of phsyics that would prevent him from doing what he does. It's what lets him do things like smack Superman at super speed and not destroy every bone in his arm. That's just the beginning of his tricks though, check the Speed Force concept for more on that. Not only can he do normal punches without damage, but he can do something called an Infinite Mass Punch where he runs so fast that the mass of his fist (and the rest of him) is "infinite". It's been compared to being hit by a star sometimes. And since when are all characters logical? It's called suspenion of disbelief. Get used to it.

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#71 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#72 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

Rotten gun says:

"i dont get the flash? does he have super strength? cause if he ran at speed then hit someone he would break his hand if not his whole arm. when a car hits another car they both get smashed. if he doesn't have super strength then he's not logical "
That's ignorance of the character and his abilities. The Speed Force protects him from all the pesky laws of phsyics that would prevent him from doing what he does. It's what lets him do things like smack Superman at super speed and not destroy every bone in his arm. That's just the beginning of his tricks though, check the Speed Force concept for more on that. Not only can he do normal punches without damage, but he can do something called an Infinite Mass Punch where he runs so fast that the mass of his fist (and the rest of him) is "infinite". It's been compared to being hit by a star sometimes. And since when are all characters logical? It's called suspenion of disbelief. Get used to it. "

ha ha ha ha grumpy

#73 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Lord Gambler says:
"All you would have to do is keep Flash of Wanda long enough for her to say everyone freeze, or freeze, would Flash know to take her out right away? There's alot of people in the Marvel U, would he know to go for her first? I think not. "
Not saying he'd go for her first, but if he's starting his attack in New York (the largest concentration of powered individuals) he'd come across her within the first second. Even if he didn't, and she had time, she wouldn't know he was coming. Assuming anyone in the area of his first attack survives, how are they going to get out any warning that will reach their allies before he does? Also, Zatanna can do the same exact thing Wanda did. Just because Wanda did it (twice in all of her history btw) on a larger scale, doesn't mean she's cornered the market on powerful and short spells. Rotten gun says:
"i dont get the flash? does he have super strength? cause if he ran at speed then hit someone he would break his hand if not his whole arm. when a car hits another car they both get smashed. if he doesn't have super strength then he's not logical "
That's ignorance of the character and his abilities. The Speed Force protects him from all the pesky laws of phsyics that would prevent him from doing what he does. It's what lets him do things like smack Superman at super speed and not destroy every bone in his arm. That's just the beginning of his tricks though, check the Speed Force concept for more on that. Not only can he do normal punches without damage, but he can do something called an Infinite Mass Punch where he runs so fast that the mass of his fist (and the rest of him) is "infinite". It's been compared to being hit by a star sometimes. And since when are all characters logical? It's called suspenion of disbelief. Get used to it. "
She's not in New York, but thats beside the point. I was going on the assumption that its a war, both sides meet, and go at, a free for all. No one knows who anybody is or what they can, all they have is there powers and how to use them. Flash is no tactical genius, would he know who to go at first second third and so one? The magic uses are holding all the cards if ya ask me.
Post Edited:2007-06-06 03:22:45
#74 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

magic and telepaths control the battle.

its like any field battle... 1st are foot soldiers then cavalry, archers and so on. if the flash wants to run into the fight he's gonna hit the likes of wolverine, colosuss etc before he gets anywhere near strange or phoenix.

#75 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

She's not in New York now, but if you go by that, she also doesn't know who she is or have access to her powers now. For most of her superhero career she was in or around New York. You don't have to be a tactical genius to go where your enemies are. That's a basic part of any fight. The magic users, like everyone else, are only powerful if they get a chance, and DC has magic users too. Only the magic users that are borderline reality warpers are of any real threat, and I think I addressed reality warpers already.

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#76 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

deadpool wins anyway cause he's already read all the DC comics!

#77 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

Rotten gun says:

"magic and telepaths control the battle. its like any field battle... 1st are foot soldiers then cavalry, archers and so on. if the flash wants to run into the fight he's gonna hit the likes of wolverine, colosuss etc before he gets anywhere near strange or phoenix."
Yeah, and he blazes through those guys in picoseconds. Strange and Phoenix are in New York too, they go down. Worse case scenario, magical defenses prevent Flash from reaching Strange. All that means is that he moves on to someone else. Like I've been saying, he's just the first wave. (Before you get all tied in knots over me saying Flash can take Phoenix, Phoenix is in a human body. Before she unleashes her power, Flash can destroy her.)Rotten gun says:
"deadpool wins anyway cause he's already read all the DC comics!"
DC has 4th-wall breakers too.
Post Edited:2007-06-06 03:36:44
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#78 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Like I said, it wasn't important where she was, your setting it up like a sneak attack, where Flash catches everyone off guard, but i can just as easily flip the script and say the Marvel U strikes first in.....I dont know, Metropolis, and all Wanda has to do is say is, "No more DC", or Invisible to all or whatever, the possibilities with her alone are endless. So yes, if the Flash comes storming into New York he could take out all the heroes there before they knew what happened, but its a two way street bub.

#79 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

marvel wins via zombie virus

#80 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

Did I say sneak attack? Just because I said they won't know he's coming doesn't mean it's a sneak attack. They won't see him, so they actually won't know he's coming. The Marvel characters will just see bodies dropping or people disappearing (they won't actually see it because anyone in viewing range would be gone before they could see anything, but you get what I'm saying). I'm not saying Wanda can't devastate DC, but there's Zatanna, who is almost literally a mirror image of Wanda, so I cancelled them out since both can do the exact same thing. There is no answer or counterpart for Flash.
Post Edited:2007-06-06 03:46:18

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#81 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Did I say sneak attack? Just because I said they won't know he's coming doesn't mean it's a sneak attack. They won't see him, so they actually won't know he's coming. The Marvel characters will just see bodies dropping or people disappearing (they won't actually see it because anyone in viewing range would be gone before they could see anything, but you get what I'm saying). I'm not saying Wanda can't devastate DC, but there's Zatanna, who is almost literally a mirror image of Wanda, so I cancelled them out since both can do the exact same thing. There is no answer or counterpart for Flash.
Post Edited:2007-06-06 03:46:18"

i thought about it.... no not good enough.

#82 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Did I say sneak attack? Just because I said they won't know he's coming doesn't mean it's a sneak attack. They won't see him, so they actually won't know he's coming. The Marvel characters will just see bodies dropping or people disappearing (they won't actually see it because anyone in viewing range would be gone before they could see anything, but you get what I'm saying). I'm not saying Wanda can't devastate DC, but there's Zatanna, who is almost literally a mirror image of Wanda, so I cancelled them out since both can do the exact same thing. There is no answer or counterpart for Flash.
Post Edited:2007-06-06 03:46:18"

No, but you kept saying New York New York, and that the heroes not in New York wouldnt know what was happening, you didnt say sneak attack, but you didnt really need to did ya. I was only saying the same can apply for the DCU, if the Marvel U attacked some place the Flash wasnt, that would give Wanda and others the chance to negate him all together.

#83 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

Just thought of something funny. When Wanda said "No more mutants", almost all the major mutants still existed. Who's to say that all the major DC heroes wouldn't still be there if she tried something similar to get rid of them?

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#84 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Gambler says:

"No, but you kept saying New York New York, and that the heroes not in New York wouldnt know what was happening, you didnt say sneak attack, but you didnt really need to did ya. I was only saying the same can apply for the DCU, if the Marvel U attacked some place the Flash wasnt, that would give Wanda and others the chance to negate him all together."

Knowing there's a war on and knowing specifically that a speedster than can take almost anyone out is coming are two different things.

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#85 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

x-man instantly telepathicly scans every DC character, finds batman, instantly learns all batmans failsafes for every chararcter and destroys the flash and everyone else in thus such manner. too many possibilties.

#86 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

X-Man is dead and has been for a while. Apart from that, you're getting very liberal with the use of the word "instantly."

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#87 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Lord Gambler says:
"No, but you kept saying New York New York, and that the heroes not in New York wouldnt know what was happening, you didnt say sneak attack, but you didnt really need to did ya. I was only saying the same can apply for the DCU, if the Marvel U attacked some place the Flash wasnt, that would give Wanda and others the chance to negate him all together."
Knowing there's a war on and knowing specifically that a speedster than can take almost anyone out is coming are two different things."

First, when she said no more mutants and all the major mutants still had there power had nothing to do with her power and everything to do with Marvel and its writers, you know that but still choose to use it.

All I'm saying, and for some reason you cant just address it, is that YES, if the Flash strikes first he can do some serious damage, BUT who says the DCU strikes first, the Marvel U could just as easily make the first move with just as equally devastating results, there's no argument there.

#88 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

OK?.... didn't realise there were rules? regardless the war would start off with infantry ie wolverine/the flash etc move up to magi and telepaths etc because they would wipe out everyone who wasn't immune and then it would become universal and so on... even if the flash (cough cough) became the champion of earth... the earth would be destroyed in a higher battle anyway

#89 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

if the flash was as good as you say... then he would be the only comic out of DC cause he already beat all the villains while we've been posting on this thread :)

#90 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Gambler says:

"First, when she said no more mutants and all the major mutants still had there power had nothing to do with her power and everything to do with Marvel and its writers, you know that but still choose to use it. All I'm saying, and for some reason you cant just address it, is that YES, if the Flash strikes first he can do some serious damage, BUT who says the DCU strikes first, the Marvel U could just as easily make the first move with just as equally devastating results, there's no argument there."

I know it was because Marvel needs mutants, but think about it. She's only used her powers on this scale twice, but the biggest, most well known instance, was a failure, (so was the first, but it was a different kind of failure) whether constructed that way by Marvel or not. Is that a good track record? Also, if she did that in DC, it would be pretty much like the OE. When that comes up but the person survives, the story is that they're too important to the universe to be destroyed. Wouldn't that still be true if Wanda did her thing?

Who says the DCU strikes first? Logic says they strike first. Fastest being in both universes is Flash. Who is going to attack before him? I'm not addressing it because, like you said, there's no argument. If the MU does a sneak attack (which isn't even what I was saying) then they have some people that can do a lot of damage. Put any of those people in a city with Flash though, and he kills most, if not all of them. Your method requires that some characters not be aware of what's going on. Flash demolishing the MU doesn't require that they not know he's coming (like I said, knowing you're going to die in a blur of yellow and red doesn't help if you can't stop it), it's just that they won't because of how his powers work. Wanda's powers don't keep her presence hidden. Let Superman know that she's in Metropolis as soon as she gets there and she's done before she can do anything. Let all the Avengers know that Flash is in New York when he gets there and they still lose.

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#91 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

That's actually true, I don't have anything to really counter those points. So with that I bow out.

#92 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm glad you're done, I need to go to bed. Personally, I think you did better than the others because you attacked the problem in a different way. Not just with Scarlet Witch, but by emphasizing the damage Marvel can do on the offensive and not just trying to defend against Flash. Forever did it too but I didn't really get to debate him since we were on at different times. Anyway, good night.

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#93 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Those are all good points, but what about Odin? Odin has enough power to stop Flash. True, Flash's powers are strong, but like I said, if his attack was anticipated, he'd be stopped immediatly. If Molecule Man can tell when things are happening, he knew when the Cosmics were having a meeting and so I'm sure he can tell if Flash is coming. So if Molecule Man knew, he could basically tear Flash apart on a molecular level. Hell, he can tear apart just about all of DC on a molecular level. Storm create Tornados that protect Marvel as well.

#94 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

on that level so could the guardians of OA...

aside from the celestials i don't think there is one race still in existence in the Marvell universe that could stand up to them...

#95 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

ORACLE says:

"on that level so could the guardians of OA... aside from the celestials i don't think there is one race still in existence in the Marvell universe that could stand up to them... "

Wanda, forget the Flash for a minute, Wanda and Thanos with the infinity gauntlet could take out the Guardians.

#96 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Who exactly are the Guardians of OA?

#97 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos Alone could exterminate DC with the Infinity Gauntlet

#98 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

i thought we were keeping it a 'non celestial' battle...

from what i know of Thanos with the infinity gauntlet, he's about as powerful as Darksied with the Anti-Life equation, they cancel each other out pretty much

#99 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, so just Wanda, he she can speak faster then they can react its over.

#100 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Gambler says:

"Okay, so just Wanda, he she can speak faster then they can react its over. "

she's basically Marvels answer to Zatanna...