dc invading marvel world

slimj87d

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#51 Edited By slimj87d

@blacharrt: I'm at work, so can't express much besides to say read through all this:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t421255.html

And then this:
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/original-ion-vs-galactus/527148/?page=2
If you don't buy it, then debate in the topic above. I'll maybe join when I have free time.

12 years ago

blacharrt

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#52 Edited By blacharrt

@TheMightyAvenger: color me confused but wasn't there about two avengers teams, and thor wasn't on either of them? Osborn's avengers and Luke Cage, which avenger team are you talking about ??

12 years ago

blacharrt

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#53 Edited By blacharrt

@SlimJ87D: I'm at work as well and i have last minute things to do so forgive me if i don't look at it now or respond till later.

12 years ago

slimj87d

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#54 Edited By slimj87d

@blacharrt: no problem. I have this window the size of a credit card on my computer so no one can see lol.

12 years ago

TheMightyAvenger

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#55 Edited By TheMightyAvenger

@blacharrt: I'm talking about the team that fought Sentry after Osborn was catured, it consisted of Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Spider-Man, Ms.Marvel, Luke Cage, Ronin, and Spider-Woman. Loki tried to help but then got killed and Thor got mad and BRD'd Sentry to the desret and then Iron Man hit him with a ship.

12 years ago

blacharrt

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#56 Edited By blacharrt

@SlimJ87D: Okay i had a chance to look at the first link, and i got to like page 4, they didn't show any real Ion feat except that he was omnipotent and omniscient on earth and that he gave jade her powers back from the starheart. There was a fight with Nero where he was a Lantern then a fight showing Nero with ion's powers fighting Hal. I didn't see any feat that even compared to Galactus level at all so i must be missing something. Also during and after page four there are abunch of random lantern fights. But to be fair i didn't go through every single scan or the ion return books 1,2,3, althought i did look through a couple of the scans from two and 3.

sorry to hear about your screen, i have full screen 15 inch, they don't care if i surf as long as i do my work.

12 years ago

slimj87d

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#57 Edited By slimj87d

@blacharrt: There is a neat feat that Ion Kyle's constructs are actually life like and think on their own. He made 4 constructs once to keep him company. One was a speedster that was actually connected to the speed force. Another a Daxamite that was as powerful as Superman. ion Kyle is like a God, he does things that alter reality. He was also everywhere at once in the Universe because he was like the Lantern corps since he had the whole battery inside of him.

This is one small example that you can build off from. Galactus needs a Herald which he disposes his power of cosmic upon. He can't even make his own true sentient heralds out of thin air. It's these little things and more that people agree he is above Galactus.

Also, Spectre admits that he is more powerful then himself. This suggest that he is on levels on par or above ZH Parallax Hal Jordan who had some remarkable feats.

I admit that I don't have the strongest opinion on the matter because although my knowledge is above the average reader on both of these characters, I am no pro. You should revive the thread and I'm sure people there can make much better comparisons than I.

12 years ago

pinkmomen

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#58 Edited By pinkmomen

@SlimJ87D:
lol

12 years ago

slimj87d

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#59 Edited By slimj87d

@pinkmomen: ???

12 years ago

blacharrt

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#60 Edited By blacharrt

@SlimJ87D: All lanterns can make people constructs, just because a character can create life doesn't mean they could beat Galactus or they are even on his level of power. Galactus can do a lot of things, he just chooses not to, He picks each of his heralds for various reasons he sees something in them. He can use the power cosmic to do pretty much anything he wants, but as i said Galactus unlike Ion has a specific Role in the Marvel universe, he is there to maintain Balance. He is well above god level beings. Zeus can create people, there is no way in hell he's gonna beat Galactus at full strength.

Spectre can be as powerful or as limited as his next showing depending on his host, so that's no scale to judge anything.
Hmm, I dont think Pharallax could even beat Silver Surfer much less a full powered Galactus.

12 years ago

blacharrt

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#61 Edited By blacharrt

@TheMightyAvenger: thor nor Ironman was actually part of the avenger during that time, they just happened to be in the area at the time. And the Majority of the Avenger were actually scattered throughout asgard, so it wasn't like he was actually fighting them.

12 years ago

slimj87d

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#62 Edited By slimj87d

@blacharrt: You don't understand, these constructs were living. He created them out of thin air. A Daxamite and a speedster connected to the speed force.

ZH Hal Jordan would defeat any version of Silver Surfer.

12 years ago

war of light_2814

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#63 Edited By war of light_2814

@SlimJ87D said:

@blacharrt: You don't understand, these constructs were living. He created them out of thin air. A Daxamite and a speedster connected to the speed force. ZH Hal Jordan would defeat any version of Silver Surfer.

IIRC,he did that before he became ION.

12 years ago

blacharrt

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#64 Edited By blacharrt

@SlimJ87D: very very doubtful on Hal beating Current Surfer. What feats does he have? Send me a PM so we aren't getting too off topic and get flagged.
The Speedforce only makes sense in the DC Universe, any other comicbook speed is just speed, that's not impressive considering every speedster gets it's speed from it in DC....

12 years ago

war of light_2814

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#65 Edited By war of light_2814

@blacharrt said:

@SlimJ87D: very very doubtful on Hal beating Current Surfer. The Speedforce only makes sense in the DC Universe, any other comicbook speed is just speed, that's not impressive considering everyt speedster gets it's speed from it in DC....

There's nothing doubtful about that a character who can destroy multiple timelines ,restart the universe and fight spectre would annihilate surfer.

12 years ago

blacharrt

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#66 Edited By blacharrt

@war of light_2814: from what i just read about that feat, it's not something that he just did on his own.

12 years ago

war of light_2814

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#67 Edited By war of light_2814

@blacharrt said:

@war of light_2814: from what i just read about that feat, it's not something that he just did on his own.

From what I remember ,he did it on his own

12 years ago

blacharrt

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#68 Edited By blacharrt

@war of light_2814 said:

@blacharrt said:
@war of light_2814: from what i just read about that feat, it's not something that he just did on his own.
From what I remember ,he did it on his own

* To build on that it seems he needed a good bet of preptime to do that feat, which if he was fighting the Surfer he would not get, where he used entropic energies from the end of time to destroy a 1 universe,
Secondly Surfer can exist outside of time.

12 years ago

war of light_2814

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#69 Edited By war of light_2814

@blacharrt said:

@war of light_2814 said:
@blacharrt said:
@war of light_2814: from what i just read about that feat, it's not something that he just did on his own.
From what I remember ,he did it on his own
1.* To build on that it seems he needed a good bet of preptime to do that feat, which if he was fighting the Surfer he would not get, where he used entropic energies from the end of time to destroy a 1 universe, 2Secondly Surfer can exist outside of time.

1.I'll recheck the zero hour
2.How that would be a factor?I'm talking about the raw power not that he wold try to alter history to get rid of surfer.

12 years ago

slimj87d

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#70 Edited By slimj87d

@blacharrt said:

@SlimJ87D: very very doubtful on Hal beating Current Surfer. What feats does he have? Send me a PM so we aren't getting too off topic and get flagged.The Speedforce only makes sense in the DC Universe, any other comicbook speed is just speed, that's not impressive considering every speedster gets it's speed from it in DC....

See, now you're actually just being stubborn. You don't understand the feat in itself. As ion HOG or not (need to go reread it), he could actually turn his constructs into real life sentient beings with their own thoughts and control. This is truly god like. You responded by saying that all lanterns can create constructs and then you went off tangent to talk about the speed force which isn't the point of the feat. We have only seen Kyle do this.

Prove that current Surfer can beat ZH Parallax. I haven't heard much from you. If you read the rules of Comic Vine, when you question everyone elses opinions you need to prove it yourself. You can't just sit on the side lines, wait for people to throw their thoughts and just not believe it. It's actually your job to do the following:

Galactus > Ion HOG
SS > ZH Hal Jordan

These are your statements and your job to prove according to the Comic Vine rules. It's not our job.

12 years ago

war of light_2814

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#71 Edited By war of light_2814

@SlimJ87D:
I suggest you to reread Circle of Fire as well I believe that's when he creat those people I could be wrong,though.

12 years ago

blacharrt

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#72 Edited By blacharrt

@SlimJ87D: Actually that's not true at all, this whole thing started with you and several other stating my opinion in this thread doesn't make sense. So i've been on the defensive this whole time and I explained why i think the they are stopped at round two. Parallax isn't even on the roster the conversation was about Ion, you brought him up. And you are the one who stated that he was on the level of Galactus yet you haven't really proven that, you also stated they were God level as well, i didn't mention that either. when i asked for feats you sent me links, which didn't convey a point at all.

So Check the thread again buddy.

12 years ago

slimj87d

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#73 Edited By slimj87d

@blacharrt: I rechecked the thread and I actually came in after you made the statement that Galactus is above Ion. So I had nothing to do with that. I just noticed that you started questioning people and mostly the majority. Sure I didn't really debate much, but you're just as guilty because you have been mostly questioning people's opinions and thoughts. Haven't seen you actually try and prove something. You have just been responding to peoples post and not really making your own original post to back up your claims and thoughts.

Second, I brought up Parallax because ion's powers are technically from what was left over from Hal himself. It's pretty much the same powers but with a different user. Check the scans when Hal Jordan takes Kyle to the power source by the sun. So I wasn't trying to go off tangent but then you brought up that Silver Surfer could beat ZH Hal Jordan so I am now questioning you. How?

So why is Galactus stronger than HOG Ion? And why do you believe that Silver Surfer beats ZH Parallax and Ion HOG?

@war of light_2814 said:

@SlimJ87D:
I suggest you to reread Circle of Fire as well I believe that's when he creat those people I could be wrong,though.

I'll check it out. Thanks.

12 years ago

blacharrt

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#74 Edited By blacharrt

@SlimJ87D said:

@blacharrt: I rechecked the thread and I actually came in after you made the statement that Galactus is above Ion. So I had nothing to do with that. I just noticed that you started questioning people and mostly the majority. Sure I didn't really debate much, but you're just as guilty because you have been mostly questioning people's opinions and thoughts. Haven't seen you actually try and prove something. You have just been responding to peoples post and not really making your own original post to back up your claims and thoughts.

Second, I brought up Parallax because ion's powers are technically from what was left over from Hal himself. It's pretty much the same powers but with a different user. Check the scans when Hal Jordan takes Kyle to the power source by the sun. So I wasn't trying to go off tangent but then you brought up that Silver Surfer could beat ZH Hal Jordan so I am now questioning you. How?

So why is Galactus stronger than HOG Ion? And why do you believe that Silver Surfer beats ZH Parallax and Ion HOG?

@war of light_2814 said:
@SlimJ87D:
I suggest you to reread Circle of Fire as well I believe that's when he creat those people I could be wrong,though.
I'll check it out. Thanks.

Yeah and just to be safe i double checked, clearly you only decided to go back to the Third page, which I guess for you and your purposes was enough. HOG ion and was brought into the conversation on pg2 by TheMightyAvenger, who also stated that Ion was on the same level as Galactus, just for you chimed into the conversation againt bringing up Hog Ion, I made mention of a feat of Galactus consuming mephisto's realm and stated I didn't think any lantern could be Silver surfer much less Galactus, following that I asked for feat to the claims. To which none were actually given I specifically asked you as one of the 3 people questioning me about the subject what feat makes you think he's on galactus's level.

Now you claim i'm attacking people's opinions, this is where our conversation ends.

12 years ago

slimj87d

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#75 Edited By slimj87d

@blacharrt:
Where we are heading right now is pointless. So lets get back on topic. I'm sure we both don't want to turn this into a flame war.

What do you have to say or show that puts Galactus above Ion HOG? And Silver Surfer above ZH Hal Jordan and Ion HOG.

Kyle Rayner Ion HOG:
-Contained the power which empowerd 3600+ Green Lanterns.
-Contained the power of all the Guardians. Guardians are one of the oldest living life forms. They are also immortal.
-Contained the power of Ion, the first living being to feel will and became the torche of that feeling.
-Had the power of the Starheart, another unlimited energy source. (Not sure if he had this power before he restored the corps. Memory is a bit foggy).

Feats:
-Capable of being anywhere in the Universe
-Could alter reality and time.
-Recreated the whole Lantern Force
-Recareted the Guardians, each strong as or stronger than Sky-Fathers. Even changed half of their Genders.

I haven't seen Galactus being able to alter reality and time. He also solely relies on his own technology. He can's just manipulate reality like Ion HOG could. If you have reasons to put Galactus above Ion HOG, please list them.

12 years ago

HolySerpent

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#76 Edited By HolySerpent

they stop at 7

12 years ago

Sherlock

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#77 Edited By Sherlock

Team clear 1-4 with no trouble
5 they beat with slightly more trouble
6 they may lose this one is a toss up
7 they lose horribly
8 either could solo the team

12 years ago

slimj87d

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#78 Edited By slimj87d

I don't know if they can make it past Team 6 actually. Insane Genis-Vell murdered Eternity and recreated it.

12 years ago

blacharrt

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#79 Edited By blacharrt

@SlimJ87D: Galactus was able to use his power to heal eternity when it was dying, and has single handedly beat down the elders of the Universe. Galactus can reality manipulate.
The Living Tribunal mentions him as he speaks of the cosmics and the trinities, and galactus is mentioned in equity the third face as born of the first which is vengeance and the second necessity but belonging to neither"
Galactus is a being of unlimited power on his own rite, he doesn't actually need technology it just makes things go a lot smoother, that's a misconception.
And he can traverse not only time and space instantly but can also cross dimension of his own power.
616 Galactus is the first galactus as Abraxas has stated, Abraxas has killed many of other versions of him in the Multiverese, but 616 is by far the strongest and could not be killed by him.
Galactus has consumed not only entire planet, and can consume other realms but he has consume an entire universe and if he wasn't stopped would have been a threat to the entire Multiverse, but to stop his hunger he actually erased an entire universe from existence (again done instantly without prep.

.
With no prep, he released and Multi-directional FTL, Annhilation Wave to counter Annhilus, the wave destroyed 3 entire solar systems and didn't slow down.

Also to the point the Guardians are not immortal in the since that they are forever and undying, they have been Killed on several occasions. As for their power level, i would have to see some stuff they did to debate that.

12 years ago

slimj87d

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#80 Edited By slimj87d

@blacharrt: Nice scans, read your post briefly, will get more into it after lunch. I didn't say they were immortal as in they can't die at all. One died fighting Prime.

Galactus does have to feed to get his powers. I don't know if the topic creator stated that this is a Galactus that has been fully fed. And Fully fed defined as in he's just not hungry or he has consumed a whole Universe like you said.

So I would use the most common form of Galactus, the one we see all the time. Also, the scans are pretty small. Where has he manipulated reality? And what about time has he shown the ability to do that?

12 years ago

difficlus

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#81 Edited By difficlus

@King_Namor said:

they require bandages round 1
they require medical attention round 2
they require stitches after round 3

they make it out barely through round 4

they get bloodied on round 5

they get wounded and become halfway dead on round 6

they get STRAIGHT UP ERASED FROM EXISTENCE ON ROUND 7

round 8 chases them into the afterlife where round 7 sent them and turns them into chicken wings, then prepares a pot of hot grease fries em, puts hot sauce on em, and eats em. Battle over.

lol basically this but they die at Round 6 definitely.

12 years ago

difficlus

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#82 Edited By difficlus

Btw which Anti-Monitor are we talking about here?

12 years ago

slimj87d

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#83 Edited By slimj87d

@blacharrt:
After doing a bit more digging you do bring up some good points. But I haven come to a conclusion that a comparison between Galactus and Ion HOG is hard because:

1. Kyle had all that power for a short time. So we didn't get to see much feats from him. You are right in the sense that he hasn't shown enough to be above Galactus. But I don't think he showed enough to prove he's below Galactus either.

2. Galactus levels fluctuate according too how much he has been "fed." Because of this, we never know how strong Big G is going to be, and when compared at a being costly as powerful it's a hard debate. Not sure if the OP even stated how fed Galactus is here.

12 years ago

MKF30

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#84 Edited By MKF30

They make it to round 8 but once they hit that, they stop

12 years ago

TheMightyAvenger

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#85 Edited By TheMightyAvenger

@blacharrt: Maybe they wern't in the avengers at the time, but they were the ones who fought him in Siege 4.
To be fair I said HoG Ion was at least at Galactus's level, but his feats show that he is above that level.

12 years ago

slimj87d

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#86 Edited By slimj87d

@MKF30 said:

They make it to round 8 but once they hit that, they stop

You think they can make it past Round 6? You got Classic Strange in there.

12 years ago

blacharrt

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#87 Edited By blacharrt

@SlimJ87D: That was my point to began with about Ion, from what i remember from his series as Ion there weren't many feat that would put him in the class that Galactus is actually in.
In the hierarchy of the Marvel Universe, I would is just below Eternity, mostly equal with the other embodiments and has stood as equals with him in his pure energy form.
Ion entity being one of several beings that personalify a certain emotion in the universe although a very interesting concept has not shown to be a necessity for the Universe to survive. Galactus is. Even if he is Kill someone else will take the role as Galactus, that was stated in Earth X so i don't know if that's actually true..
The Black lanterns alone could have destroyed the Green lanterns in totality Galactus it has been stated that Death is his, mother. and some other relation to Death and will never be touched by it. I believe this was stated when the In-betweener commanded death to take him. Parallex almost destroyed them.

It's true that is power level does fluctuate, mostly due to his hunger. But at Full Power there are very few entities would could beat him. He would be very hard to beat gauge him at full power, i agree completely.
@TheMightyAvenger: and I asked you what feats, you don't you recall mentioning one.

12 years ago

andre54

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#88 Edited By andre54

I think they can make it to round 8, but they'd need a full heal after round 7. And Round 7 looks like a toss up. They would clear 6.

12 years ago

slimj87d

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#89 Edited By slimj87d

@blacharrt: It wouldn't be a fair comparison to compare how important each cosmic being is according to their Universe. I don't think that's a fair way to compare their power because they're from totally different Universes. But the Ion entity all by itself is pretty weak IMO. It couldn't even help Sodam Yat win against Prime. Sure Sodam was new with it but still, if it's suppose to be so uber powerful a fraction of its strength should have beat Prime.

I think what really boosted Ion was the Guardians, Central power Battery in addition to Ion. I think it was said by the Spectre that the energy also grew even stronger. Something to note is if Kyle is allowed to use feats from Parallax ZH since he did obtain his powers from what Hal left behind when he decided to suicide.

12 years ago

MKF30

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#90 Edited By MKF30

@SlimJ87D said:

@MKF30 said:
They make it to round 8 but once they hit that, they stop
You think they can make it past Round 6? You got Classic Strange in there.

True, but I do believe Ion(classic) who is also ridiculously powerful can take Strange.

12 years ago

slimj87d

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#91 Edited By slimj87d

@MKF30 said:

@SlimJ87D said:
@MKF30 said:
They make it to round 8 but once they hit that, they stop
You think they can make it past Round 6? You got Classic Strange in there.

True, but I do believe Ion(classic) who is also ridiculously powerful can take Strange.

The thing about Strange is he's use to dealing with people that can bust Galaxies all the time. Classic Ion sure is powerful but doesn't have as much experience as Strange did with dealing with Galaxy and some Universe busting threats.

Also, he still has a Human mind, which Strange IMO could penetrate some how some way. But it would be hard. I don't think Classic Strange could totally do it on his own but he has the IG Thanos and Phoenix force to back him up. If anything, imagine Thanos being logical just gives Classic Strange the IG.

12 years ago

MKF30

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#92 Edited By MKF30

Well, I remember a topic with classic Dr. Strange vs. Classic Dr. Fate and most felt Fate could take him or it would be stalemate, I think it's safe to say Classic Ion probably surpasses Fate, so I honestly believe he could take Strange, but not saying it would be easy though. With the mind thing, maybe, maybe not. Who's to say Ion can't block his telepathy some how? I mean classic Ion just seemed uber powerful, definitely one of the most powerful characters in DCU in general. Much stronger then the second time Ion made an appearance.

12 years ago

blacharrt

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#93 Edited By blacharrt

@SlimJ87D: Well considering Parallex is the personification of Fear, and Ion is suppose to be the personifaction of Will, i don't even see how you could say the two feat would be able to be used the same, the power source is completely different. I also think you're right in that assessment of the Ion power, i mean Ion had the power to not only reinstate all the Ion, great a new main battery but create all new guardians as well. It doesn't make sense that he wouldn't be able to beat Prime if he had all that power plus omniscient, and omnipotence. Ion should have known Primes weaknesses and should have been able to exploit them to win.

12 years ago

slimj87d

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#94 Edited By slimj87d

@blacharrt: The differences between ion and Parallax was created by a retcon. But we do have to go by retcons. In the story though when Spectre Hal takes Kyle to the power source it was meant to really be what ever Hal had left. If anything, my speculation would be that Ion would be more powerful since it is the embodiment of will and the energy from the central power battery is suppose to be channeled with Will.

At least we know what the entities are, they are pretty much stronger lanterns with an unlimited power source and a little bit more. So it's safe to assume that what really gave Ion HOG his HOG was the Guardians and Central Power battery.

As I said, I don't know if it would be fair to say that Kyle could do what ZH Hal has done, but that is because Kyle didn't want to wreck havoc, Hal did. So Hal abused his powers. The only thing that might make it safe to assume that he can is Spectre Hal telling him he could and a lot of scans saying he had the same powers.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3189/5cf0.jpg

This is just one of many.

12 years ago

blacharrt

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#95 Edited By blacharrt

@SlimJ87D: i know it was explained that a part of parallex was merge with him, that's how the lantern no longer were weak against Yellow to my understanding.
But seeing that All the Emotional spectrum embodiments are different i would think it would be logical that they use their powers in different ways, specifically the emotion they are suppose to convey. I think maybe the spectre was saying that he could have the same energy output as parallex (not that he would do the same things, he is suppose to be Willpower personified, and Parallex Fear), but It really doesn't make much sense that the two beings would really merge in any fashion. It really just sounds like a plot device that isn't well thought through to get rid of a weaken that the GreenLanterns had.

But that's just my personal opinion on the that.

12 years ago