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#1 Posted by Cybrilious4 (1766 posts) - - Show Bio

- Batman is at his best

- 5 months prep

- No morals

VS

- This is Barry Allen Flash

- No morals

Fights in the Bat-Cave.

Who wins?

#2 Posted by BlackWind (4013 posts) - - Show Bio

And here it comes...

#3 Posted by russellmania77 (13568 posts) - - Show Bio

Tower of Babel

#4 Posted by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (8158 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh god, Batman vs The Flash, what have you done!? You'll destroy us all!!!!!

#5 Posted by GhostRavage (7572 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash takes it, just a little tap on the Speed Force and everyone is done. Also it could be only 3 imp or going intangible and do what he did to Amazo (i may be wrong...maybe that was Wally)

#6 Posted by Cybrilious4 (1766 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#7 Posted by RBT (3730 posts) - - Show Bio

5 month prep? In Batcave? You know the answer.

#8 Edited by DigitalShooter9 (1100 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash takes it, just a little tap on the Speed Force and everyone is done. Also it could be only 3 imp or going intangible and do what he did to Amazo (i may be wrong...maybe that was Wally)

I believe batman could come up with a way to disable his use of the speed force.

#9 Posted by Juiceboks (5930 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:

Flash takes it, just a little tap on the Speed Force and everyone is done. Also it could be only 3 imp or going intangible and do what he did to Amazo (i may be wrong...maybe that was Wally)

I believe batman could come up with a way to disable his use of the speed force.

Not from a no morals Barry who's out to kill Bruce. He wouldnt have time to implement anything.

#10 Edited by Dredeuced (4400 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9 said:

@ghostravage said:

Flash takes it, just a little tap on the Speed Force and everyone is done. Also it could be only 3 imp or going intangible and do what he did to Amazo (i may be wrong...maybe that was Wally)

I believe batman could come up with a way to disable his use of the speed force.

If he could then his Tower of Babel strategy wouldn't have been so crappy and wouldn't have relied on Flash being an idiot.

#11 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

Barry Allen wins

#12 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

Speedblitz, prep ain't sh!t when you are baseline human

being human is like a disability when compared with ubermensch gods

#13 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3213 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: I agreed with this but after thinking about it, not so much. It was a % chance Bruce took based on the psychological evaluation of Wally West. It's the same concept in fighting, the more skilled opponent wins because he can sense what's coming based on certain factors. It's simply a calculated chance with a small error ratio. Granted if you're someone as brilliant as Bruce you'd likely come up with something a little more impressive like stalling Barry to allow a poisonous chemical to enter his body, or manipulating the speed force like Grodd did, or something more brilliant than anyone of us could come up with. With the prep I could see Bruce having a slight advantage. Batman isn't really the random encounter "super"hero. First and foremost he's the worlds greatest detective and has intellect on par with Luthor. Strategy, profiling, psychiatric evaluations, ahead of his time technology, and planning is simply his forte. Barry's very smart and powerful but I also believe he couldn't compensate without prep. Bruce could steadily drug him for months while building a anti-speed force spray bottle.

#14 Posted by TheBournePoster (575 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman could start the fight with some kind of invisible forcefield around himself, or between him and Flash.

#15 Posted by The_Roman (3295 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash godstomps.

#16 Posted by dondave (26572 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash ftw

#17 Posted by dondave (26572 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Posted by dave17 (61 posts) - - Show Bio

If it's 5 months prep in the bat cave, he would try to make the bat cave unaccessible to the speed force, probably using Vibe's abilities as a guideline, If he could morals off Bruce would do scary things to Barry.
Although if this plan didnt work, bye bye Batman.

#19 Posted by Sherlock (7087 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman borrows gear from the rogues with his prep time

#20 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (2345 posts) - - Show Bio

Insider Suit FTW!! But that's the only possible way he's winning.

#21 Edited by ImBoredLetsDebate (444 posts) - - Show Bio

Doubting a 5month prepped Batman in the Batcave...Comicvine...son, I am disappoint

#22 Posted by The_Roman (3295 posts) - - Show Bio

Doubting a 5month prepped Batman in the Batcave...Comicvine...son, I am disappoint

And he's going to do what? Hide?

#23 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@imboredletsdebate said:

Doubting a 5month prepped Batman in the Batcave...Comicvine...son, I am disappoint

And he's going to do what? Hide?

Get his birth control pills and lube

flash fact.

#24 Edited by Dredeuced (4400 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: I agreed with this but after thinking about it, not so much. It was a % chance Bruce took based on the psychological evaluation of Wally West. It's the same concept in fighting, the more skilled opponent wins because he can sense what's coming based on certain factors. It's simply a calculated chance with a small error ratio. Granted if you're someone as brilliant as Bruce you'd likely come up with something a little more impressive like stalling Barry to allow a poisonous chemical to enter his body, or manipulating the speed force like Grodd did, or something more brilliant than anyone of us could come up with. With the prep I could see Bruce having a slight advantage. Batman isn't really the random encounter "super"hero. First and foremost he's the worlds greatest detective and has intellect on par with Luthor. Strategy, profiling, psychiatric evaluations, ahead of his time technology, and planning is simply his forte. Barry's very smart and powerful but I also believe he couldn't compensate without prep. Bruce could steadily drug him for months while building a anti-speed force spray bottle.

It's stupid because Wally has literally never vibrated through a bullet before so it wouldn't be something in a psych profile. He's been shot by bullets by complete surprise and his body instinctively tapped into his super speed where he got up and looked at the bullets as if they were hanging in mid air. Wally only ever dodges the bullets or catches them if they're going to hit someone. Hell for half of his run as Flash (and when Tower of Babel happened) he had trouble vibrating through things without making them explode, so he wouldn't vibrate through a bullet for fear of having a grenade pass through him.

Mark Waid's a good writer but Tower of Babel might be his worst work where he struggled to actually come up with reasonable ways for Batman to beat everyone. Heck Wonder Woman's defeat was also pretty dumb. Maybe it's because Wally and WW didn't have actual exploitable weaknesses but hell, they were clever enough when it came to Kyle and Aquaman.

also I don't believe Prep allows you to actively weaken or harm your opponent during the prep. If he could do that then he'd just sabotage the JL Teleporters at some point and toss Barry into the sun sometime during those 5 months.

#25 Edited by Jgames (1376 posts) - - Show Bio

Only way I see Batman winning if he weakened Barry with prep, or come up with a 100% full proof plan which is not going to happened. So flash stomp 6/10

#26 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (4918 posts) - - Show Bio

Can Batman make that friction less tech that Superior Spiderman made?

#27 Posted by Effulgence (20 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman never loses with prep or in the batcave.

Batman has a contingency plan for every member of the jla.

Batman 10/10.

#28 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3213 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: oh I agree, Tower of Babel was a cool idea IMO but lacked depth and made practically no sense like you said about West and Diana. The only logic I could find was Bruce's deductive logic to make sense of much of it. With the morals being off, the prep he has I think this is unfair in Batmans favor. This is why I hate battles like this, He should be in street level battles not battles vs Justice league and Doomsday and crap that's been going around.

#29 Posted by DigitalShooter9 (1100 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: oh I agree, Tower of Babel was a cool idea IMO but lacked depth and made practically no sense like you said about West and Diana. The only logic I could find was Bruce's deductive logic to make sense of much of it. With the morals being off, the prep he has I think this is unfair in Batmans favor. This is why I hate battles like this, He should be in street level battles not battles vs Justice league and Doomsday and crap that's been going around.

Look, I have seen a lot of people that claim batman is a street leveller. The thing is though, just because he does not have super powers, doesn't mean he is no match for the JLA or other tough beings. Given enough prep, batman could defeat anyone, he is more than just a rich dude with gadgets. He has, for some perspectives beaten superman or for some other perspectives, defeated the JLA. It all comes down to Batman being batman which practically makes him able to do whatever he wants.

For this case it is The Flash vs Batman

Batman has plans for the flash that has worked on him before.(TOWER OF BABEL) I believe there wouldn't be much of a difference between Barry or Wally assuming both of them have near identical powers. Alongside his plans, we all know that batman is a genius and a master strategist. Now the flash has been defeated by Deathstroke, who just used his strategic skills to predict what flash will do and eventually took the Flash down. I know for a fact that Batman is at least deathstrokes level in intellect and strategy. Deathstroke is more enhanced, but batman has the plans. Plus batman is peak human in every category which makes him more durable then the flash. What I am saying is, Batman can do what deathstroke did even more efficiently with his wider range of resources and intellect along with the planning he has made for the whole JLA.

I am not saying its a 10/10 for batman, flash could defeat him under his own circumstances. But for this case it is 8/10 in batman's favour.

#30 Edited by Dredeuced (4400 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01: Barry can turn a nanosecond into years of prep, though. It's not a fair fight when Barry has precognition thanks to his Speed Mind. What's Batman going to do to counter being dumped in the Speed Force?

The only way Batman can win against a no morals Barry is to disable the Speed Force. Batman has never shown any such ability, as I'm aware. The fight starts and before Batman can enact his plan, Barry Speed Force Dumps him and it's all over. The best thing about this is no one but Barry and Grodd know about his ability to drop people into the Speed Force using his his mind. Batman literally couldn't come up with a contingency plan for a power he's never seen Barry, in all his fights alongside Bruce, use.

People saying Batman wins give literally no reason as to why and just automatically assume Batman with prep could do something and that'd be the end of it. The best they've got is the Tower of Bable Vibrating bullet, which is hilarious because why would Barry vibrate through a bullet when he can do this:

It doesn't matter if Batman comes to the fight with a forcefield or some other way to stop Barry from killing him when he's got the Speed Force Dump. Batman's out of his league against a top tier hero with morals off. Maybe if Barry were morals on and would try to reason with Batman he could be lured into a trap or something, but even that's dicey considering Barry's precognition.

#31 Edited by DigitalShooter9 (1100 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01: Barry can turn a nanosecond into years of prep, though. It's not a fair fight when Barry has precognition thanks to his Speed Mind. What's Batman going to do to counter being dumped in the Speed Force?

The only way Batman can win against a no morals Barry is to disable the Speed Force. Batman has never shown any such ability, as I'm aware. The fight starts and before Batman can enact his plan, Barry Speed Force Dumps him and it's all over. The best thing about this is no one but Barry and Grodd know about his ability to drop people into the Speed Force using his his mind. Batman literally couldn't come up with a contingency plan for a power he's never seen Barry, in all his fights alongside Bruce, use.

People saying Batman wins give literally no reason as to why and just automatically assume Batman with prep could do something and that'd be the end of it. The best they've got is the Tower of Bable Vibrating bullet, which is hilarious because why would Barry vibrate through a bullet when he can do this:

It doesn't matter if Batman comes to the fight with a forcefield or some other way to stop Barry from killing him when he's got the Speed Force Dump. Batman's out of his league against a top tier hero with morals off. Maybe if Barry were morals on and would try to reason with Batman he could be lured into a trap or something, but even that's dicey considering Barry's precognition.

This picture is barry holding normal bullets, not the vibrational ones batman possessed in his plans. The thing is though, batman has 5 months, even if Barry is a fast thinker, he cannot match up to batman's level of preparing.

#32 Posted by Dredeuced (4400 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9: Yes he can. That's how the Speed Mind works. Barry's mind is so fast that the Watchtower computers are too slow to keep up with his thought processes. How fast is the JL computer? Well:

Barry would have relative months in the first second of the fight to plan before Batman could even react. That's why he has precognition -- he can think of every eventuality and take the best possible option.

Anyhow, the point isn't that he'd grab the vibrating bullet. The point is it'd be moving so slow relative to him that he wouldn't have to vibrate through it. The Tower Of Babel plan is inane. Barry far more often dodges than phases through things.

I don't get how the Tower of Babel strategy can stop a morals off Barry Allen. In the first picosecond of the fight he'd speed force dump Batman before he can pull the vibrating bullet or set off whatever elaborate plot device trap he could think of. The only POSSIBLE way for Batman to win would be to disable Barry's connection to the Speed Force, which is something he has not been shown capable of doing -- if he had, then that'd have been a much better strategy during Tower of Babel because it would've disabled Wally without causing him to live relative months having painful seizures.

#33 Edited by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (8158 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread will not end well lol

#34 Edited by Wolfrazer (4935 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: I don't even see how the plans could stop any of the others in truth given they require specific circumstances, with the exception of Aquaman and Kyle.

#35 Posted by Dredeuced (4400 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfrazer: Using special kryptonite against Superman is a perfectly acceptable counter that doesn't rely on Superman acting out of character or becoming temporarily retarded. Freezing Plastic Man is a perfectly acceptable counter that doesn't rely on him acting out of character or becoming temporarily retarded. Covering J'onn in nanites that continually and permanently set him on fire is a perfectly fine counter that doesn't rely on him acting out of character or becoming temporarily retarded.

Wally phasing through a bullet is both out of character (he doesn't phase if he doesn't have to because the bullet would explode and could harm people) and requires him being temporarily retarded because he's only ever dodged or grabbed bullets to stop them. Hell he's literally SPEED STOLEN bullets before the Tower of Babel arc just for giggles.

Wonder Woman fighting herself to death is not only out of character, but it relies on her becoming permanently retarded. Wonder Woman's was definitely the worst of all.

#36 Edited by spiderbuck (2406 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfrazer: Using special kryptonite against Superman is a perfectly acceptable counter that doesn't rely on Superman acting out of character or becoming temporarily retarded. Freezing Plastic Man is a perfectly acceptable counter that doesn't rely on him acting out of character or becoming temporarily retarded. Covering J'onn in nanites that continually and permanently set him on fire is a perfectly fine counter that doesn't rely on him acting out of character or becoming temporarily retarded.

Wally phasing through a bullet is both out of character (he doesn't phase if he doesn't have to because the bullet would explode and could harm people) and requires him being temporarily retarded because he's only ever dodged or grabbed bullets to stop them. Hell he's literally SPEED STOLEN bullets before the Tower of Babel arc just for giggles.

Wonder Woman fighting herself to death is not only out of character, but it relies on her becoming permanently retarded. Wonder Woman's was definitely the worst of all.

Wait.... they opened the box and revealed what was inside?? How'd I miss that. What exactly was Bat's contingency plan against Flash again?

#37 Edited by Dredeuced (4400 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced said:

@wolfrazer: Using special kryptonite against Superman is a perfectly acceptable counter that doesn't rely on Superman acting out of character or becoming temporarily retarded. Freezing Plastic Man is a perfectly acceptable counter that doesn't rely on him acting out of character or becoming temporarily retarded. Covering J'onn in nanites that continually and permanently set him on fire is a perfectly fine counter that doesn't rely on him acting out of character or becoming temporarily retarded.

Wally phasing through a bullet is both out of character (he doesn't phase if he doesn't have to because the bullet would explode and could harm people) and requires him being temporarily retarded because he's only ever dodged or grabbed bullets to stop them. Hell he's literally SPEED STOLEN bullets before the Tower of Babel arc just for giggles.

Wonder Woman fighting herself to death is not only out of character, but it relies on her becoming permanently retarded. Wonder Woman's was definitely the worst of all.

Wait.... they opened the box and revealed what was inside?? How'd I miss that. What exactly was Bat's contingency plan against Flash again?

No, they haven't opened any box but the Superman box and the Wonder Woman box in new-52. We're talking about the Pre-52 storyline known as The Tower of Babel where Ra's Al-Ghul stole Batman's anti-justice league contingency plans and used them against the rest of the JL to temporarily disable them. The problem was that his plans for Flash and Wonder Woman were straight up retarded and make no sense.

#38 Posted by Juiceboks (5930 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9 He has neither defeated Superman or the JLA no matter what way you look at it. You can't seriously believe Batman can beat anyone with prep?

#39 Edited by Wolfrazer (4935 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: But then...who says that Supes, MM would give Bats the chance to even use his plans against them? Not saying the plans would be effective, its just...the chance of them actually working is what I was getting at.

#40 Edited by Dredeuced (4400 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: But then...who says that Supes, MM would give Bats the chance to even use his plans against them? Not saying the plans would be effective, its just...the chance of them actually working is what I was getting at.

Oh if they weren't traps then they wouldn't have worked in general, either. Batman doesn't stand a chance in a straight up fight against morals off Superman or MMH. They'd just fly the moon into the batcave. The point was that the ENTIRE plan for WW and Flash make no sense.

#41 Posted by Mattersuit (4270 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman never loses with prep or in the batcave.

Batman has a contingency plan for every member of the jla.

Batman 10/10.

Haha, nice joke.

#42 Edited by spiderbuck (2406 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck said:

@dredeuced said:

@wolfrazer: Using special kryptonite against Superman is a perfectly acceptable counter that doesn't rely on Superman acting out of character or becoming temporarily retarded. Freezing Plastic Man is a perfectly acceptable counter that doesn't rely on him acting out of character or becoming temporarily retarded. Covering J'onn in nanites that continually and permanently set him on fire is a perfectly fine counter that doesn't rely on him acting out of character or becoming temporarily retarded.

Wally phasing through a bullet is both out of character (he doesn't phase if he doesn't have to because the bullet would explode and could harm people) and requires him being temporarily retarded because he's only ever dodged or grabbed bullets to stop them. Hell he's literally SPEED STOLEN bullets before the Tower of Babel arc just for giggles.

Wonder Woman fighting herself to death is not only out of character, but it relies on her becoming permanently retarded. Wonder Woman's was definitely the worst of all.

Wait.... they opened the box and revealed what was inside?? How'd I miss that. What exactly was Bat's contingency plan against Flash again?

No, they haven't opened any box but the Superman box and the Wonder Woman box in new-52. We're talking about the Pre-52 storyline known as The Tower of Babel where Ra's Al-Ghul stole Batman's anti-justice league contingency plans and used them against the rest of the JL to temporarily disable them. The problem was that his plans for Flash and Wonder Woman were straight up retarded and make no sense.

Gotcha, thanks!

#43 Posted by BlackWind (4013 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced: Thank you for shutting down the batwank. The Batman with prep is omnipotent argument just breeds stupidity.

#44 Edited by divad4686 (182 posts) - - Show Bio

Please, stop giving no morals to superman and flash against street levels.

#45 Edited by Cybrilious4 (1766 posts) - - Show Bio

@divad4686: Flash is a street leveler? Yet he can solo DBZ on speed alone? Hmmm

#46 Posted by divad4686 (182 posts) - - Show Bio

@cybrilious4: lol, I edited like 5 seconds after the post!

#47 Posted by Cybrilious4 (1766 posts) - - Show Bio
#48 Edited by Shawnbaby (9312 posts) - - Show Bio

#49 Edited by Antonnius (332 posts) - - Show Bio

Hasn't batman taken down the entire League before with his prep? >.> This thread says prep for batman not the flash, so the flash would come in on the rules of a random engagement. Depending on version of flash this is . . .

Batman has shown himself to be one of DC's finest when it comes to prep, if Flash rushes him when five months of prep has been done in the batcave I shudder to think.

#50 Posted by Cybrilious4 (1766 posts) - - Show Bio