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#1 Posted by BigCimmerian (8672 posts) - - Show Bio

- DC team is consisted of ZH Parallax, Lucifer Morningstar, Spectre, Nekron and Eclipso

- Marvel team is consisted of fully fed Galactus, Living Tribunal, Eternity, Dark Phoenix and Odin

- No prep, in character, who wins and why?

#2 Edited by Contempris (8 posts) - - Show Bio

Spectre solos

#3 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian said:

- DC team is consisted of ZH Parallax, Lucifer Morningstar, Spectre, Nekron and Eclipso

- Marvel team is consisted of fully fed Galactus, Living Tribunal, Eternity, Dark Phoenix and Odin

- No prep, in character, who wins and why?

ZH Parallax, isn't an abstract. Parallax by itself is an abstract, the personification of yellow (fear) energy. Hal merged with Parallax, Parallax should not get the feats from ZH, because Hal needed prep, also had control over green lantern energy which Parallax does not, and knowledge that he didn't have to pull it off the entropy feat and recreating the universe. Also Odin isn't an abstract either, he's a God, which are lower than abstracts. Dark Phoenix is iffy because the phoenix force actually took control of Jean Grey, but still as pure abstract you should just say "The Phoenix Force", which is more powerful without a host.

#4 Edited by ImNemotheGemini (845 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate ! Lucy Morningstar is the 2nd most powerful being under the presence ! ZH Parrallex recreated the universe (idk the context of how he did it though)

While we have The Tribunal whose second most powerful under TOAA... He and Lucy can do pretty much whatever they want with the universe ! We've never seen a fully feed Galactus.. But when he absorbed a whole universe.. He became so powerful that he threatened the Multiverse.. So he had to kill himself ! ... Basically.. Stalemate !

#5 Posted by DarkRaiden (7980 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucifer should solo....with extreme ease. Hell Lucifer could solo WITHOUT powers.

#6 Posted by BigCimmerian (8672 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1: I just couldn't find better name for my thread, you don't need to educate me.

#7 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

It's funny how people believe Lucifer Morningstar solo's, when you can literally see The Living Tribunal's name in tbe title. Tell me how he takes LT. Even with the help he's still likely to lose. It would probably take the combination of Michael and Lucifer to stalemate LT. The guy resides on the highest planes of reality, and is powerful enough to make the Infinity Gaunlet look weak.

#8 Posted by SheenLantern (6860 posts) - - Show Bio

Spectre solos

Lucifer should solo....with extreme ease. Hell Lucifer could solo WITHOUT powers.

You mean The Living Tribunal solos.

#9 Posted by eternityx (2802 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate, because of the Tribunal and Morningstar.

#10 Posted by Deathstrokesrevenge (237 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Posted by SheenLantern (6860 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternityx said:

Stalemate, because of the Tribunal and Morningstar.

Lucifer without Michael < LT

Lucifer with Michael = LT

#12 Posted by Jmarshmallow (9907 posts) - - Show Bio

The Living Tribunal literally is the only person on this list who has the CHANCE of solo'ing. He's the only person on this list who is actually constantly backed by God. He's in charge of the entire multiverse, and there really isn't much to put him down. With that being said, given the characters DC has, it would be tough for anyone but Lucifer to even challenge LT. Add everyone else into the mix, and Marvel is the winner here.

Jmarshmallow

#13 Posted by eternityx (2802 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheenlantern: I know that but I expect people to go crazy and tell me that I'm an idiot if I wrote that, but yes I agree with that. It'd probably still be a stalemate though, because the rest of the Marvel team is so weak.

#14 Edited by amalgamuniverse (334 posts) - - Show Bio

I think LT and Lucifer Morningstar could stalemate

ZH Parallax vs Dark Phoenix : ZH Parallax

Spectre vs Eternity : Spectre

Nekron vs Odin : Nekron

Eclipso vs Galactus : Galactus

Take my opinion with a grain of salt because I don't know much about any of these characters except LT, Odin, Galactus, and Spectre

#15 Posted by heymanjack (716 posts) - - Show Bio

Living Tribunal is overrated as hell. He failed to kill an alternate universe Galactus.

#16 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5608 posts) - - Show Bio

#12 Posted by Jmarshmallow (54 posts) - 46 minutes, 38 seconds ago - Show Bio

The Living Tribunal literally is the only person on this list who has the CHANCE of solo'ing. He's the only person on this list who is actually constantly backed by God. He's in charge of the entire multiverse, and there really isn't much to put him down. With that being said, given the characters DC has, it would be tough for anyone but Lucifer to even challenge LT. Add everyone else into the mix, and Marvel is the winner here.

Jmarshmallow

I like ^ this answer.

#17 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucifer is not a match for the Living Tribunal and people need to stop saying that he is a multiversal threat. Michael's energy recreated the universe although this instance isn't even canon for DC universe, and on top of that, because Michael's energy had a time limit on how long it could be molded to create a new universe Lucifer couldn't even shape the energy as he fully wanted. Lucifer by his self does not have the power to make or create a universe. People pump Lucifer up to be something he really isn't. Living Tribunal has held the two brother in his hands, the abstract that are Representative of DC and Marvel megaverse. That isn't something LM could even possibly do. LT is above LM and is an Multiversal being existing in all realities simultaneously. Meaning the Living Tribunal is greater than the DC universe.

#18 Posted by DarkRaiden (7980 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucifer is not a match for the Living Tribunal and people need to stop saying that he is a multiversal threat. Michael's energy recreated the universe although this instance isn't even canon for DC universe, and on top of that, because Michael's energy had a time limit on how long it could be molded to create a new universe Lucifer couldn't even shape the energy as he fully wanted. Lucifer by his self does not have the power to make or create a universe. People pump Lucifer up to be something he really isn't. Living Tribunal has held the two brother in his hands, the abstract that are Representative of DC and Marvel megaverse. That isn't something LM could even possibly do. LT is above LM and is an Multiversal being existing in all realities simultaneously. Meaning the Living Tribunal is greater than the DC universe.

Not true, Michael's death, in his book, in Lucifer's book (aka his canon) destroyed what was supposedly the omniverse. From it, creation was remade and Lucifer made and formed hell, which is it's own multiverse. Lucifer is outside of death, he is outside of creation, LT is not. Lucifer should be above LT, as should Michael. Combined they are God aka The Presence aka TOAA.

#19 Edited by mjolnirson (1506 posts) - - Show Bio

living tribunal solos and easy.

#20 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

Not true, Michael's death, in his book, in Lucifer's book (aka his canon) destroyed what was supposedly the omniverse..

Michael's death didn't destroy anything, he was in the void when it happened...

he is outside of creation, LT is not.

......the entire series revolved around the fact that lucifer was struggling to be independent from God and his creation, only when the letter of passage was presented to him, he was able to exist creation:

#21 Posted by Rijehu (693 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucifer takes it. LT is a bit overrated since he is only supreme within the mutliverses he governs.

#22 Posted by DoDirty (1023 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel STOMPS

#23 Edited by Rijehu (693 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1 said:

Lucifer is not a match for the Living Tribunal and people need to stop saying that he is a multiversal threat. Michael's energy recreated the universe although this instance isn't even canon for DC universe, and on top of that, because Michael's energy had a time limit on how long it could be molded to create a new universe Lucifer couldn't even shape the energy as he fully wanted. Lucifer by his self does not have the power to make or create a universe. People pump Lucifer up to be something he really isn't. Living Tribunal has held the two brother in his hands, the abstract that are Representative of DC and Marvel megaverse. That isn't something LM could even possibly do. LT is above LM and is an Multiversal being existing in all realities simultaneously. Meaning the Living Tribunal is greater than the DC universe.

Lucifer is more than a match for The Living Tribunal by his very nature alone. It is LT who gets pumped up to be greater than what he really is. Lucifer not being able to create a Universe out of nothing has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with how powerful he is. Him creating a multiverse and replicating the creative ability of The Presence himself was more than enough of a feat regardless of using Michael's essence. He created a full functioning multiverse including human life, without The Presence's interference, proving how powerful both his Will and Intellect is.

Also, to touch down on this Universal and Multiversal stuff. DC only uses the terms Universe and Multiverse. It is Marvel that uses Megaverses and Omniverses. Saying that LT governs the entire Marvel Multiverse means nothing since DC itself is now an endless Mutliverse. DC Mutliverse is just as large as Marvel Megaverse because they are both ENDLESS. Saying that LT is greater than DC Multiverse just because of the term Marvel chooses to use is pure ignorance and opinion based. LT being present in every Reality is not impressive to a being who is the shaper of what holds every reality, creation.

Also, do you even know WHY LT is supreme in the Multiverse? It is because he was purposely created to be the judge of MARVEL MULTIVERSE, not anywhere else. LT has power because of his role as a balance keeper of Abstracts. That multiverse he governs is the ONLY place he has that power because it is the only place that his authority and jurisdiction reigns supreme. That is why he has had trouble with beings from outer realms (realms OUTSIDE of his multiverse that exist out in the Omniverse). There are beings outside of Marvel Multiverse that he is not above, because his authority is not extended beyond his jurisdiction.

I honestly don't think people know who Lucifer is. His Will is what shapes creation (not just realities, or multiverses, but CREATION itself). Although he can't create something from nothing, he can manipulate ALL there already is ( Matter, Energy, Time, Space, Reality, Concepts, Ideas, Metaphysical existence, Pataphysical existence, and anything beyond) If is IS, Lucifer Wills it. He can infinitely twist, bend, sculpt, shape, mold, warp, and usurp anything in any way he wishes. Unlike LT, Lucifer embodies and purely exists as Absolute Will, which is the Will of The Presence, which is greater than LT. What people don't understand is that Lucifer's power is innate to who and what he is. He is not tied to a duty of his Universe like LT is. He is not powerful because of a job or a role. He embodies an aspect of his Omnipotent creator. LT is just nigh omnipotent, but he does not embody any type of defining aspect of power of TOAA, he doesn't even have free will.

By the way, to comment on a statement you made about Lucifer not being multiversal, he doesn't have to be present in multiple Universes to affect them. In his multiverse, which was separate from DC verse, he waved his hand and destroyed two assassin souls in DC. He also gave a guy (in DC) a warning heart attack with a mere gesture from his own multiverse. So his power is indeed Mutliversal + as it should be since he can literally impose it on ALL of creation.

But back to topic, there are a few things that put Lucifer above LT.

1, Lucifer predates his now Continuity because he and Michael created DC verse. LT was simply created as the Governor of Mutliverses whereas Michael and Lucifer creates them, and can destroy them just as easily.

2, Lucifer can and has existed outside of any know creation by he sheer Will power so destroying creation wouldn't even harm him since he is beyond it. LT has shown no such feat.

3, Lucifer survived a creation destroying blast twice without so much as a singed hair, so what would LT be able to do to a guy who wills creation and destruction to mean nothing to him by his very presence?

4, The Abstracts in Marvel are simply embodiments of certain concepts of the Universes that LT governs. Lucifer willed The Endless (Destiny, Death, Dream, Destruction, Delirium, Desire, and Despair) into existence. Not to mention that The Endless are beyond The Abstracts seeing as to how the don't "exist" and can't be killed as the abstracts can. They simply "are". The Endless are more metaphysical than they are abstract, meaning they embody concepts that can't be undone, (unless by the creators themselves) because they don't "exist" in the sense of being tied to a function of the Universe. Lucifer shaped the Metaphysical foundations of all sentient life in DC, LT did no such thing. I would even go further and say that LT, due to his ties to the Marvel multiverse, lack of free will, and limited jurisdiction within his ENTIRE continuity, is closer to being an abstract compared to Lucifer.

5, Lucifer has shown feats of manipulation and intellect alone that surpass any LT has had. ( Killing Omnipotent Gods in their own realms, while being powerless, being able to destroy two of the most powerful Endless who themselves are multiversal, destroying creations that were indestructible, (such as Destiny's book pages and The Logoz, both which are above LT) in their respective. The ruth is, LM is undersold when it comes to LT, who is overrated when it comes to other top tier beings. No matter how many megaverses he governs, he is still bound to Marvel Multiverse. Lucifer both left DC continuity AND became the supreme being in his own Multiverse.

LT is powerful when compared to beings that have no independent function outside of any universal law or concept. Lucifer is not even remotely bound by duties or universal concepts. There is nothing LT can do to destroy a being who literally co created the entire concepts of Death and Destruction. The only time Lucifer was ever killed was by his own power being turned against him after willingly giving up his wings to enter a dimension. Even then he threatened Death (in her own realm where she is all powerful) and she agreed that he could eradicate her. After finding a way to resurrect himself, he and Death both stated that she has no claim on him.

The only reason people low blow Lucifer is because of his apparent limitations in his comics and because LT got retconned every time he got a boo boo. The main reason why Lucifer even had any issues in his comics was because of how powerful he is, not the lack thereof. The Presence had to set certain rules and plots in creation for Lucifer so that he won't undo all there is. Many times we have seen Lucifer threaten to end the existence detrimental concepts or of beings of great power and they agree that he could. Lucifer didn't have limits because he was weak, Lucifer had limitations placed upon creation by TP because by him being the Will of God himself, he could utterly eradicate existence. He would rather not deal with the consequences or the mess he would have to clean up afterwards. You need to realize that while LT is powerful, and second to TOAA in the MULTIVERSE, he is not the shaping force of the very fabric of creation. He is not the Usurper of his Omnipotent creators power.

The most LT can do is destroy the entire battlefield, which would't affect Lucifer. Erasing Lucifer from existence isn't possible because he himself is Will that can't be erased. There is no place LT could send him that he can't come back from. There is no power LT can use that Lucifer can't will.

LT: "Archangel, You will not..."

Lucifer: "You are under my Will. You have a right to remain in existence, for now. Any power, ability, thought, concept, or idea you have can and will be used against you in the works of my manipulation. You have a right to an opinion, which will once again be used against you via my manipulation. If you attempt, but cannot form a proper attack or opinion, you will be sentenced to eradication along with your team of insignificant misfits." LOL I'm just kidding about the conversation, but yeah. Lucifer wins via Intellect and raw power.

#24 Posted by Hyperlight (6322 posts) - - Show Bio

stalemate or marvel

#25 Posted by Cregan_Stark (2094 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see anyone here beating LT so I'm going Marvel

Online
#26 Edited by Superman19 (173 posts) - - Show Bio

Basically what he said :) @rijehu

#27 Edited by KingOfAsh (3627 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucifer is not a match for the Living Tribunal and people need to stop saying that he is a multiversal threat. Michael's energy recreated the universe although this instance isn't even canon for DC universe, and on top of that, because Michael's energy had a time limit on how long it could be molded to create a new universe Lucifer couldn't even shape the energy as he fully wanted. Lucifer by his self does not have the power to make or create a universe. People pump Lucifer up to be something he really isn't. Living Tribunal has held the two brother in his hands, the abstract that are Representative of DC and Marvel megaverse. That isn't something LM could even possibly do. LT is above LM and is an Multiversal being existing in all realities simultaneously. Meaning the Living Tribunal is greater than the DC universe.

A megaverse is only a fancy way of saying Multiverse+. The very same guidebook says a megaverse is a multiverse and the different univereses conected to a multiverse but outside that multiverse and it's cosmic hieracy. Living Tribunal has done things with several multiverses still, but so has Lucifer, who has power over his own multiverse and hithes mainstream multiverse.

#28 Posted by DBVSE7 (3914 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucifer Morningwood > The Living Oscar.

Jk this could go either way. :P

#29 Posted by lol (5388 posts) - - Show Bio

No one but Lucy and LT are even factors in this fight

#30 Edited by skyroid (471 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheenlantern said:

@eternityx said:

Stalemate, because of the Tribunal and Morningstar.

Lucifer without Michael < LT

Lucifer with Michael = LT

that abc logic is really annoying, Michaels power is far beyond anyone his power is God's demiorigus, unlimited amount of power beyond LT

Lucifer is infinite will able to shape anything to what he sees fit.

Michael, power itself, unlimited

Lucifer, Will, able to shape without limit

Living tribunal's has tremendous power but not like Michael and Lucifer can shape without limit, Living tribunal cannot.

plz avoid abc logic and also that brother arc is non canon to DC.

#31 Posted by acer51 (2253 posts) - - Show Bio

The Tribunal.

#32 Posted by highaccuser (7925 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel.

Online
#33 Posted by skyroid (471 posts) - - Show Bio

@acer51 said:

The Tribunal.

Marvel.

but why? Michael has God's power and Lucifer has Will to shape anything..

@skyroid said:

@sheenlantern said:

@eternityx said:

Stalemate, because of the Tribunal and Morningstar.

Lucifer without Michael < LT

Lucifer with Michael = LT

that abc logic is really annoying, Michaels power is far beyond anyone his power is God's demiorigus, unlimited amount of power beyond LT

Lucifer is infinite will able to shape anything to what he sees fit.

Michael, power itself, unlimited

Lucifer, Will, able to shape without limit

Living tribunal's has tremendous power but not like Michael and Lucifer can shape without limit, Living tribunal cannot.

plz avoid abc logic and also that brother arc is non canon to DC.

#34 Posted by FlashGreaterSignEveryone (1067 posts) - - Show Bio

everyone who is saying the tribunal solos or he is the reason why marvel wins obviously know nothing about lucifer ... this battle is a stalemate though.

#35 Posted by highaccuser (7925 posts) - - Show Bio

@skyroid:

but why? Michael has God's power and Lucifer has Will to shape anything..

It's more that they have more overall power than it is the LT vs Lucifer debate.

Online
#36 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (2648 posts) - - Show Bio

These battles are banned

#37 Posted by lol (5388 posts) - - Show Bio

but why? Michael has God's power and Lucifer has Will to shape anything..

It's more that they have more overall power than it is the LT vs Lucifer debate.

what mean that?

#38 Posted by highaccuser (7925 posts) - - Show Bio

@lol said:

@highaccuser said:

but why? Michael has God's power and Lucifer has Will to shape anything..

It's more that they have more overall power than it is the LT vs Lucifer debate.

what mean that?

It means that LT vs Lucifer is debatable, but overall marvel has more power on their team and wins due to that.

Online
#39 Posted by Apocalypse3 (1778 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably team mavel due to LT and y is odin

#40 Posted by ShootingNova (18675 posts) - - Show Bio

lol at Odin.

#41 Posted by MasterKungFu (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

Team DC because of Lucifer

#42 Posted by SithLantern93 (2181 posts) - - Show Bio

DC team stomps.

#43 Posted by keithcolby1995 (481 posts) - - Show Bio

DC wins easily... Is this a fake thread?

#44 Posted by Kangconquers (1052 posts) - - Show Bio

The Living Tribunal literally is the only person on this list who has the CHANCE of solo'ing. He's the only person on this list who is actually constantly backed by God. He's in charge of the entire multiverse, and there really isn't much to put him down. With that being said, given the characters DC has, it would be tough for anyone but Lucifer to even challenge LT. Add everyone else into the mix, and Marvel is the winner here.

Jmarshmallow

The Living Tribunal is basically God. Marvel's God is like an absentee parent, who leaves the kids with the baby sitter constantly. The Tribunal is that babysitter, and functionally rules the Marvel multi-verse.

#45 Posted by XiiX (9121 posts) - - Show Bio
#46 Posted by Parryboy (1158 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucifer Morningstar.

#47 Posted by Kingant27 (6976 posts) - - Show Bio

LT solos, Odin would be a good herald

#48 Posted by Thedailybagel (4853 posts) - - Show Bio

Whys odin here?

Anyway marvel wins

Online
#49 Posted by SithLantern93 (2181 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol at people saying LT would solo.

#50 Posted by Van_Cere (2246 posts) - - Show Bio

DC. this is basically a fight between lucifer and LT because if one defeats the other, none can stop that being from soloing.

lucifer should win more times than LT because even though their power levels are almost the same, he is much smarter, and he has more than 20 billion years of experience. lived in heaven for untold eons, ruled hell for 10 billion years, lived out the last 10 billion years in the original creation with frequent visits to his own creation where time goes much faster than in the original because he made it so, and then spent a few days in Elaine's creation before going to the primal monitor where there is no time.