#1 Edited by Perpetr8rMike (590 posts) - - Show Bio

We all know (At least those of us who are Dragonball Z fans) of the movie Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan.

In this movie a saiyan survivor named Broly along with his father Paragus trick Vegeta, Future Trunks, Gohan, and Goku to a new planet they have dubbed New Vegeta. Along with them comes Piccolo and a few others.

During the fight Broly takes down all but Goku whom they have the final battle with. He uses the combined forces of his allies and uses an energy punch that seemingly kills Broly (We find out later it did not)

However, one thing always bugged me about the ending. It was a cope-out they used the power of friendship to defeat a foe who was throughout the runtime depicted as leagues outside their ability to fight.

Now first a little something. An aside about Super Saiyans

Super Saiyans all kinda look the same (Except three and four and now God but still) So some don't know the different

SSJ1 (Basic Super Saiyan, this form increases the fighter by x100 their base abilities)(Akira Toriyama has stated this)

ASSJ (Ascended Super Saiyan this form is vastly superior in strength and power over SSJ1. The proof of this is in the fights against Android 18 and Semi-Perfect Cell. When fighting 18 two SSJ1 fighters where not able to make a single damaging blow and she was able to literally shatter ones arm with a simple kick showing she was far superior. However, after Cell absorbed 17 who is on par with 18 in power ASSJ manhandled Semi-Perfect Cell with minor effort as Vegeta in ASSJ was toying with him. This means that ASSJ is easily three to five times as strong as a SSJ as Semi-Perfect Cell has no trouble stomping Piccolo who was even stronger then a basic SSJ1)

[An Aside about this involving Broly. Vegeta in Super Saiyan form (We cannot 100% confirm this is ASSJ but it is likely) kicks a Suppressed Super Saiyan Broly (Broly is restrained by a device putting him under his fathers control) this kick does absolutely nothing to Broly who is not yet in normal SSJ1 form.]

Check out moment 3:28 to see it fully

USSJ (Ultra Super Saiyan, this form allows a Saiyan to increase their power and physical strength to levels that could at least in part hurt Perfect Cell. However it comes at the cost of their speed, making them nearly half as slow as their previous ASSJ form)

Full-Power SSJ (Full Power Super Saiyan, this form is considered full mastery of the Super Saiyan form, coming from staying in it constantly and not requiring the user to power up. In the movie Goku and Gohan break this form but are still able to reach the same power as they have spent weeks if not months at this point in this form during the Cell Games (They where in the HBTC, hence so long) This form is strong enough to fight with Cell on even terms for an extended period of time, as we see Goku perform during his fight with Cells days after this fight would have taken place. Showing it is easily on par with Cell but not superior)

Of course SSJ2 is superior to all those forms making a dramatic increase in speed and strength and is considered twice as strong as SSJ1 however, this I believe is under the assumption of twice as strong as FPSSJ1 not standard first transformation SSJ1

Now with that lesson over the fight can begin.

Broly at LSSJ (His own unique form of Super Saiyan)

vs

SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Saga)

SSJ2 Goku (Beginning of Buu)

SSJ2 Vegeta (Majin)

SSJ2 Trunks (I know he never reached it but we can base it off Gohans)

and Full Power Piccolo.

The battle takes place as it did in the movie, same location and rules. No BFR and Broly is Bloodlusted.

Also to be sure there are no Sensu Beans on the planet and they have a time crunch of 15 mins before the comet blows the world up.

#2 Posted by Sheps13 (21 posts) - - Show Bio

Since DBZ vs DBZ threads are allowed..lets try to keep this civil;

that being said i believe the super saiyan team would win over Broly

Gohan SS2 is stronger correct me if im wrong then Goku and Vegeta SS2, especially if gets mondo pissed off

SS2 Trunks is all power no speed and woould get crushed by Broly

Goku & Vegeta would put up a good fight against Broly

Piccolo is a nonefactor in this fight..while he can put up a good fight for maybe 5 minutes but thats it...the weak link in this fight next to Trunks

that being said...Piccolo should fight first because if he gets killed then Gohan would get Mondo pissed and would kill Broly

#3 Posted by Perpetr8rMike (590 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheps13 said:

Since DBZ vs DBZ threads are allowed..lets try to keep this civil;

that being said i believe the super saiyan team would win over Broly

Gohan SS2 is stronger correct me if im wrong then Goku and Vegeta SS2, especially if gets mondo pissed off

SS2 Trunks is all power no speed and woould get crushed by Broly

Goku & Vegeta would put up a good fight against Broly

Piccolo is a nonefactor in this fight..while he can put up a good fight for maybe 5 minutes but thats it...the weak link in this fight next to Trunks

that being said...Piccolo should fight first because if he gets killed then Gohan would get Mondo pissed and would kill Broly

Actually in comparison SSJ2 Gohan from Cell is weaker then both Goku and Vegeta from Buu
Also in second coming Broly did manhandle SSJ2 Gohan with ease.

#4 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (16616 posts) - - Show Bio

Gohan as super saiyan 2 got one of the strongest boosts in the series. He should take broly lssj on his own this time, I think.

#5 Posted by Perpetr8rMike (590 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: He did get a big boost but up until Buu Gohan's power was only increased by double that of a full powered super saiyan. Vegeta even states that Gohan didn't train after Cell so got weak.

As far as Teen Gohan vs Broly I don't think Gohan can solo this. He was strong yes but if you watch the scenes Broly tanked a full on Kamehameha to the face by FPSSJ1 Goku without so much as a scratch, a blow that when done to Cell blew off his upper half. While FPSSJ1 could hurt Cell but not beat him.. He couldn't hurt Broly at all. Teen Gohan when SSJ2 manhandled Cell easily but only as easily as Broly was manhandling Goku in FPSSJ1 so SSJ2 might not be enough on its own. Broly was literally unaffected by everything that was thrown at him except the Dues Ex Punch at the end.

Remember for a SSJ to turn back to normal form you must either 1. Knock them out 2. Kill them or 3. Hit them so hard most of their Ki is burnt up in the attack to keep them alive.

#6 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (16616 posts) - - Show Bio

@perpetr8rmike: Which broly is this, The first or second time, or that bio thingy?

#7 Edited by russellmania77 (14851 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheps13 said:

Since DBZ vs DBZ threads are allowed..lets try to keep this civil;

that being said i believe the super saiyan team would win over Broly

Gohan SS2 is stronger correct me if im wrong then Goku and Vegeta SS2, especially if gets mondo pissed off

SS2 Trunks is all power no speed and woould get crushed by Broly

Goku & Vegeta would put up a good fight against Broly

Piccolo is a nonefactor in this fight..while he can put up a good fight for maybe 5 minutes but thats it...the weak link in this fight next to Trunks

that being said...Piccolo should fight first because if he gets killed then Gohan would get Mondo pissed and would kill Broly

Actually in comparison SSJ2 Gohan from Cell is weaker then both Goku and Vegeta from Buu

Also in second coming Broly did manhandle SSJ2 Gohan with ease.

didnt gohan have trouble going ssj 2 thats why broly was shafting him wasnt it?

Online
#8 Posted by NeonGameWave (7712 posts) - - Show Bio

Broly loses this one.

#9 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

Did the ban get lifted? Anyway, Team Z wins.

#10 Edited by Rozalia (692 posts) - - Show Bio

Broly can lay waste to Trunks and Piccolo practically instantly and this time around Broly might have to actually dodge attacks but overall he is faster, stronger and his power is maximum. Unless Goku can pull of another PIS punch to Broly's chest. Team gets slaughtered but at least this isn't fancomic Broly who can toe to toe with Super Saiyan Vegito.

The problem with DBZ after Raditz is even if a bunch of fighters would actually have a higher powerlevel then a lone fighter it wouldn't matter as the lone fighter would practically be invulnerable to damage and would have vastly higher stats.

#11 Posted by beautifulrevery (1505 posts) - - Show Bio

They're far to powerful for Broly after an initial transformation. If we're going to go with the statement that his power rises infinitely after becoming LSSJ then we can assume he'd be strong enough to take them after spending an extended amount of time in this form. Otherwise he gets slaughtered.

#12 Posted by alcoholbob (1192 posts) - - Show Bio

Ganging up on someone seemed to stop working after Raditz. Seems like Toriyama's logic is if A is a bit stronger than B, then A can beat a bunch of Bs at the same time (hence why they never blitzed Cell as a team).

#13 Posted by reikai (4181 posts) - - Show Bio

In 2nd Coming, Brolly was overpowering SS2 Gohan, SSJ Goten and SS2 Goku. Where they once again use a plot-device to beat Brolly with somehow a weak, non-SSJ Kid Trunks energy ball disrupted Brolly's attack enabling the Super Saiyan Family to break it up and push Brolly into the sun.

Without the half-baked plot-devices, Brolly would've killed them all fairly easily. And unlike them his power continues increasing. And it seemed the general consensus was needing Super Gogeta/Vegitto to be able to contend with LSSJ Brolly.

#14 Edited by Perpetr8rMike (590 posts) - - Show Bio

@perpetr8rmike: Which broly is this, The first or second time, or that bio thingy?

This is Broly from the first movie, I made them all SSJ2s to make it more of a fight.

Broly however was not going for the kill on anyone but Goku and he was tormenting Goku by beating on him. He took his time and enjoyed it. After a Seven Year Coma he woke up and after beating on two SSJ1 kids (Goten and Trunks) he manhandled Gohan at SSJ2 and even survived diving into a river of Lava.

#16 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

Broly Crushes them all unless they combine there attack then his screawed. But since Toei is not in this and he can destroy the Z fighters now then there screawed

He destroy a much stronger SSj2 then them

#17 Edited by Wolfrazer (6374 posts) - - Show Bio

I find it hilarious, that Vegeta completely contradicts what he says during the series in the video...but then non-canon, so eh w/ez.

As for the battle...well Goku always finds a way to win somehow, so...could happen. Maybe a spirit bomb?

#18 Edited by xlab3000 (3185 posts) - - Show Bio

Z Fighters win

#19 Edited by Perpetr8rMike (590 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by xlab3000 (3185 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Posted by Perpetr8rMike (590 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlab3000: It may have been as I was replying

#22 Posted by laflux (15044 posts) - - Show Bio

@rozalia said:

Broly can lay waste to Trunks and Piccolo practically instantly and this time around Broly might have to actually dodge attacks but overall he is faster, stronger and his power is maximum. Unless Goku can pull of another PIS punch to Broly's chest. Team gets slaughtered but at least this isn't fancomic Broly who can toe to toe with Super Saiyan Vegito.

The problem with DBZ after Raditz is even if a bunch of fighters would actually have a higher powerlevel then a lone fighter it wouldn't matter as the lone fighter would practically be invulnerable to damage and would have vastly higher stats.

His power is maximum

#23 Posted by Chibi_cute (4509 posts) - - Show Bio

Broly could rape the z-fighters if the plot hax device didnt activated

#24 Edited by GhostRider2 (3279 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlab3000 said:

Z Fighters win

Agreed, Gohan ssj2 cell saga is the strongest ''Gohan'' in my opinion, he got weaker because he is dumb :)) if he was training he would be > Goku.

#25 Posted by Shikarenji (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

Z fighters win. 4 super sayian 2's should be enough to beat broly . after all in second coming goku ,gohan , and goten combined kamehameha blasted him through the sun and killed him . worst case scenario gohan , trunks , and piccolo hold him off while goku teaches vegeta the fusion dance (since its majin saga goku and vegeta) and super gogeta destroys broly

#26 Posted by Rozalia (692 posts) - - Show Bio

Z fighters win. 4 super sayian 2's should be enough to beat broly . after all in second coming goku ,gohan , and goten combined kamehameha blasted him through the sun and killed him . worst case scenario gohan , trunks , and piccolo hold him off while goku teaches vegeta the fusion dance (since its majin saga goku and vegeta) and super gogeta destroys broly

Actually if not for Trunks cutting off Broly from his ball of energy then Broly would have actually beaten the Family Kamehameha. Broly's Omega Blaster is not a beam but a ball of energy that requires him to constantly add his own energy to the blast to power struggle with it and being cut off from his ball meant that the Kamehameha wave overpowered it. Broly by the way doesn't require training because as the legendary Super Saiyan his power is always increasing meaning his power level never drops, ever. It also means that unless you stop him powering up his Omega Blaster in some way beating Broly in a power struggle is impossible as he has unlimited power to power struggle with.

Broly is just one of those characters who just breaks logic, were he to have another movie where he faces SSG Goku you'll likely find him overpowering Goku even then.

#27 Posted by Shikarenji (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@rozalia said:

@shikarenji said:

Z fighters win. 4 super sayian 2's should be enough to beat broly . after all in second coming goku ,gohan , and goten combined kamehameha blasted him through the sun and killed him . worst case scenario gohan , trunks , and piccolo hold him off while goku teaches vegeta the fusion dance (since its majin saga goku and vegeta) and super gogeta destroys broly

Actually if not for Trunks cutting off Broly from his ball of energy then Broly would have actually beaten the Family Kamehameha. Broly's Omega Blaster is not a beam but a ball of energy that requires him to constantly add his own energy to the blast to power struggle with it and being cut off from his ball meant that the Kamehameha wave overpowered it. Broly by the way doesn't require training because as the legendary Super Saiyan his power is always increasing meaning his power level never drops, ever. It also means that unless you stop him powering up his Omega Blaster in some way beating Broly in a power struggle is impossible as he has unlimited power to power struggle with.

Broly is just one of those characters who just breaks logic, were he to have another movie where he faces SSG Goku you'll likely find him overpowering Goku even then.

It was stated that broly was stronger in the second coming . Since this is a rematch of the first broly he doesn't have the same level of power as second coming , its broly from the legendary super sayian movie . Secondly , in the movie goku , goten and gohan were only ssj1 when they fired the family kamehameha , in this goku , gohan , vegeta , and trunks are ssj 2 . Hatchiyak was said to have power the same (if not stronger than ) as broly's and he was defeated by the combined z fighters blast (all who were ssj1 and full power piccolo) . Broly's power does constantly grow but he doesnt have unlimited power and can be beaten in a power struggle without interference . If he is hit with a blast that has a higher output than his blast and isnt able to increase his ki to a level higher than that before he is hit , then he will be overpowered . The combined blast power of SSJ2 goku , gohan , trunks , and vegeta as well as full power piccolo is far more than enough to destroy him . Like i said , worst case goku and vegeta fuse while the z fighters distract broly , then gogeta annihilates broly .

#28 Edited by ShenLong (272 posts) - - Show Bio

@perpetr8rmike: Firstly, because of Rildo in GT there is the misconception that SS makes a saiyan 100x stronger, when in fact it is just about 50, stated by both Toriyama, and Daizenshuu/Perfect Files, confirming Toriyama, in quotes. Secondly, SS Level 2 (Ascended) is about 3x as strong as SS, and SS Level 3 (Ultra) is about 3x SSLv2. Take Goku's power level of 150 million as SS, times 3 makes 450 million as SSLv2, and then 1.35 billion as SSLv3. Perfect Cell's power level is only 900 million, but he is very fast. Legendary Super Saiyan Broly's power level is 1.4 billion. He is legendary because he is both stronger than SSLv3, looks similar, but is as fast as a SS. A SS2 is twice as strong as a SS, meaning Goku would have been at 300 million, but much, much, much faster, probably able to run circles around Broly at full health and peak condition. At SS3, he's at 4x SS2, so 1.2 billion, getting close to Broly, but not even their yet in terms of raw power, but obviously, much, much faster. If you don't believe me because you think Goku got much stronger by this point, you'd be mislead. In fact, Buu, in his fat form, only has a power level of 1 billion. Characters like him make up for it though in skills like magic and indestructibility. SS4, although not canon, is 10x SS3, so in the case of Goku, 12 billion. SS Gogeta is 2.5 billion, so SS4 Gogeta would be 200 billion. This is absurdly strong, even if the power did not multiply by as much as you'd think, i.e. like 15 thousand between Raditz and Frieza when Goku went from 10 thousand to 150 million. SSG Goku was close to as strong as Bills, and Bills is supposed to be stronger than any previous character in all DB, GT included. The other universe gods > Wis > Bills >= Goku as SSG. So since SSG > SS4, SSG Goku is at over 200 billion, probably by a lot. Althoug the combined power levels of the SS2s and Piccolo you mentioned are greater than Broly's, unless they were combined into one being, they would lose, being knocked down like flies. You can hit a concrete block with metal chopsticks all you want, it will not break. Fuse those chopsticks into a sledgehammer, then you're in business.

Hope this helps.

#29 Posted by ShenLong (272 posts) - - Show Bio
#30 Posted by brainstorm01 (1273 posts) - - Show Bio

for the fact goku can lift z sword without changing in ssj while gohan cant.

So

Base goku =100x base gohan

And this makes him

As ssj2=100x ssj2 gohan.

And its a fact.

#31 Posted by GhostRider2 (3279 posts) - - Show Bio

@shenlong: no, but if cell saga Gohan continued to train he would be stronger than ultimate gohan.Ultimate can't go ssj but he has some power while teen gohan was ssj2, i know there is a time difference.He lost that power because he is dumb.

#32 Edited by SuperDrummer (721 posts) - - Show Bio

Gohan solos.

Vegeta solos.

Goku solos.

Piccolo didn't get a good fight in post time skip, so its impossible to scale him. Trunks future trunks MIGHT be able to win after a VERY hard fight, while if your using kid trunks he can't solo.

The breakdown:

Followed by a speed-blitz by the winner.

#33 Posted by thelocust619 (2218 posts) - - Show Bio

OP is so wrong my head is spinning, idk where to start....how do you compare Vegeta when 18 broke his arm to the vegeta that trained in the hyperbolic time chamber? Of course ASSJ is stronger in this case, because Vegeta himself is stronger. Its not a new form, Cell explains that all they did was focus entirely on strength and not speed so its not much different than a full power ssj. The time frames of everything in this thread are so flawed that its already a bust.

Ssj1 is a 50x increase, not 100.

Saying the kamehameha that hit Broly in the face is the same as the one that blew Cell in half is also retarded, all Z fighters were stronger at that point.

The team OP has lined up stomps, this is ridiculous. Broly had two rematches and was beaten by kids who <the team in this fight who>>>the team from the first movie.

#34 Edited by redbird3rdboywonder (3948 posts) - - Show Bio

The main problem with the Broly movies and Broly himself is that we have no real idea about how powerful the Z-fighters were at that point and we have to form baseless assumptions on when the movie took plae, how powerful the z-fighters were, and where to sale Broly based on how he was whooping their a**,but if this was a rematch from the first movie, with everyone retaining their movie based (speculated) power levels and remove the BS then Broly kills them as easily as he was going to do the first time. That said Gohan's going to solo Broly based on everything that was shown but not before they have one hell of a fight but then again a bloodlusted Broly could just nuke the planet right when the fight starts but i do think that Gohan's speed would be more than enough to stop Broly before that could happen, I mean here you have a blood lusted Broly vs what's essientally a near blood-lusted Teen Gohan who's more powerful then him, I would actually pay to see this fight happen, hell i'd even pay for it to be turned into a manga and then animated in a movie, with the movie being nothing but an hour of these two going blow for blow. With all that said adding the other Z-fighters is just too much for Broly to handle but in all actuality the one to defeat Broly will be Piccolo because he's secretly Batman in diguise