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#1 Posted by ShadowKing (849 posts) - - Show Bio
 
 
Random encounter. 
Place : A Power Plant. 
Winner by KO and incapacitation. 
Long distance. 
Morals : On. 
Today versions.
They can't BFR. 
#2 Posted by Saren (25899 posts) - - Show Bio

Betcha 50 bucks someone will post the Eve of Destruction scan.

Moderator
#3 Posted by ShadowKing (849 posts) - - Show Bio
Ok.
#4 Posted by Bo88gdan (4414 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto Stomps 

#5 Posted by (((Prodigy))) (2443 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto

#6 Posted by menaceforever (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

sort of spite towards dazzler

#7 Posted by Pwok21 (2459 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to be the oddball here a say Dazzler.

That is assuming that the Power Plant is working during the fight.

Light moves faster than Metal so...

Magneto dies.

#8 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (10649 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto would win. Dazzler is powerful, and part of me thinks that a dazzle-blast could still work here at least 1/10, but she doesn't really bring anything to the table that Magneto couldn't handle.

#9 Posted by imbackwimps (1064 posts) - - Show Bio

magneto easy

#10 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3599 posts) - - Show Bio

@THUNDERBOLT30 said:

Magneto would win. Dazzler is powerful, and part of me thinks that a dazzle-blast could still work here at least 1/10, but she doesn't really bring anything to the table that Magneto couldn't handle.

Unfortunately, while she could put up a good fight, nail him with a few dazzle blasts to blind him and etc, I don't think her laser beam or photon blasts can penetrate his shields, which are almost always up unconsciously. It didn't go so well for her the last time she went up against him on Jean's strike force.

#11 Posted by torzone (420 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pwok21 said:

I'm going to be the oddball here a say Dazzler.

That is assuming that the Power Plant is working during the fight.

Light moves faster than Metal so...

Magneto dies.

How does a Power Plant help Dazzler when she absorbs Sound and converts it into Light??

The Power Plant plays more of an Advantage to Magneto than Dazzler.

#12 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (10649 posts) - - Show Bio

@PhoenixoftheTides: I pretty much agree, except that dazzle-blast is more than blinding light. It can incapacitate her opponents with extreme light sensory overload almost instantly.

#13 Posted by yodagod (2285 posts) - - Show Bio

@THUNDERBOLT30 said:

@PhoenixoftheTides: I pretty much agree, except that dazzle-blast is more than blinding light. It can incapacitate her opponents with extreme light sensory overload almost instantly.

Except Magneto also has light control as part of the electromagnetic spectrum, not to mention he'll attack and finish before she knows the battle starts. He has enhanced reaction time, she doesn't.

#14 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (10649 posts) - - Show Bio

@yodagod said:

@THUNDERBOLT30 said:

@PhoenixoftheTides: I pretty much agree, except that dazzle-blast is more than blinding light. It can incapacitate her opponents with extreme light sensory overload almost instantly.

Except Magneto also has light control as part of the electromagnetic spectrum, not to mention he'll attack and finish before she knows the battle starts. He has enhanced reaction time, she doesn't.

His control over light is rarely ever used though (I only recall seeing it once). I agree that his reaction time is greater than Alison's but he has been hit by attacks from opponent that are slower than he is, and Alison is pretty fast on the draw. It's not out of the realm of possibility for Alison to out draw or draw fast enough to potentially hit him. If she got off a dazzle-blast first Magneto would be hit. Light is just too fast.

#15 Posted by PowerHerc (85043 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto.

Spite.

#16 Posted by chiq (1974 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto wins. But can light get past his shields? What form of energy did photon use to get inside his shields?

#17 Posted by Saren (25899 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

Magneto wins. But can light get past his shields? What form of energy did photon use to get inside his shields?

Considering that if light couldn't get past his shields, he wouldn't be able to see past them.....

Selene has used that to her advantage against him.

Moderator
#18 Posted by chiq (1974 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: yeah, that's what i was thinking. reminds me of the time when green arrow and atom took out darkseid. So does that mean that Alison's blasts get through his shield?

#19 Posted by Saren (25899 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq: I don't see why they shouldn't.

Moderator
#20 Edited by TheCannon (19008 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bo88gdan said:

Magneto Stomps

This.

Really, this is a bigger stomp than Dazzler vs Dr. Doom

#21 Posted by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

@menaceforever: sorta spite? UNDOUBTEDLY SPITE.

@ShadowKing: nice one. NOT

#22 Posted by Nefarious (21262 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto.

#23 Posted by Pwok21 (2459 posts) - - Show Bio

@torzone said:

@Pwok21 said:

I'm going to be the oddball here a say Dazzler.

That is assuming that the Power Plant is working during the fight.

Light moves faster than Metal so...

Magneto dies.

How does a Power Plant help Dazzler when she absorbs Sound and converts it into Light??

The Power Plant plays more of an Advantage to Magneto than Dazzler.

Ever been to a power plant?

Loud as hell man, so it does give a huge advantage to Dazzler as well.

#24 Posted by torzone (420 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pwok21: Dazzler is more useful at a parade Lol Even with all the noise in the world Magneto's force fields are nearly impenetrable and he also can control light...Magneto stomps Dazzler badd

#25 Posted by yodagod (2285 posts) - - Show Bio

@THUNDERBOLT30 said:

@yodagod said:

@THUNDERBOLT30 said:

@PhoenixoftheTides: I pretty much agree, except that dazzle-blast is more than blinding light. It can incapacitate her opponents with extreme light sensory overload almost instantly.

Except Magneto also has light control as part of the electromagnetic spectrum, not to mention he'll attack and finish before she knows the battle starts. He has enhanced reaction time, she doesn't.

His control over light is rarely ever used though (I only recall seeing it once). I agree that his reaction time is greater than Alison's but he has been hit by attacks from opponent that are slower than he is, and Alison is pretty fast on the draw. It's not out of the realm of possibility for Alison to out draw or draw fast enough to potentially hit him. If she got off a dazzle-blast first Magneto would be hit. Light is just too fast.

He's used it several times. He made himself invisible to invade Attilan, he used it in his second encounter with Photon, and he dispersed the photons from one of Dazzler's attacks (though it was a tp illusion he can still do it). With his penchant for trying to debate his opponent into not fighting, he may let her go first. But he has at least 3 lightspeed reaction feats as well (dispersing Allie's light, and catching Northstar at top speed, and keeping up with Photon). He can also manipulate sound and can create a harmonic resonance to shut down sound from getting to her, he can encase her ,or even just her ears, in metal taken from the air, he can shut off blood flow to her brain for a ko, he can shut off blood to her eardrums and deafen her temporarily, he can just shut her powers off or hold her still via iron in her blood. He can pull her to the astral and beat her. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If she uses her very best attack it may or may not hit, may or may not get through his shields, may or may not be blocked, and may or may not work depending on if he can will himself past it (I'm betting yes) and if he increases to 100 class durability. This really isn't close. Not unlike the many other battles against any individual X-Man. He's already beaten them all together and at their best. 1on1 isn't close for any of them. He can take a point-blank direct shot from the Phoenix Force itself, then shut its powers off. Dazz isn't a challenge.

#26 Posted by k4tzm4n (48868 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh my.

Is anyone trying to defend Dazzler? lol

Staff
#27 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (10649 posts) - - Show Bio

@yodagod: To state she isn't a challenge for him I think is an underestimation of her. I'm aware of the many ways that he can win, and that he could likely strike first. I'm just pointing out that a dazzle-blast should have no problem effecting him if she was successful with landing a strike. The odds are clearly in Magneto's favor though.

#28 Posted by yodagod (2285 posts) - - Show Bio

@THUNDERBOLT30 said:

@yodagod: To state she isn't a challenge for him I think is an underestimation of her. I'm aware of the many ways that he can win, and that he could likely strike first. I'm just pointing out that a dazzle-blast should have no problem effecting him if she was successful with landing a strike. The odds are clearly in Magneto's favor though.

I don't think so. Until or unless she comes fully into her omega status/potential, she'll never be a challenge to him. A full power dazzle blast, assuming he doesn't counter it or have his shield up, which would likely disseminate some of it, still probably wouldn't do more than briefly stun him at best, and may hardly affect him at all. With durability allowing him to tank unshielded blows from Colossus coupled with willpower enough to hold off Xavier and Jean together, he'd probably just shrug it off. And even if it works and stuns him for a few seconds, what's her follow up? She'll have o use all her stored reserve energy for her initial blast to have any chance. If she somehow instantly recharged, his armor is molecularly bonded, so no lasers will work. She isn't going h2h with him when Piotr and Herc can't. That's if he basically gives her a free shot with her best attack, and doesn't accidentally reflexively kill her. She'd be smarter to go for subtlety and try emotion manipulation, but he'd probably recognize that as well. She has maybe a one in a million shot, but not much more than that IMO. She's had chances to really shine, but usually falls disappointingly short, many times embarrassingly short. In character her own CIS comes in to play, and she's even worse than Bobby for living up to her potential. Nearly as bad as Hydroman or Electro. She and Jubilee have been officially omegas for a long time, and neither have so much as a single omega-level feat.

I respect you for defending her, but I just don't see it.

#29 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (10649 posts) - - Show Bio

@yodagod: If a dazzle-blast hit him, it would instantly overwhelm his senses, and thus his nervous system. He should be incapacitated by it, if not made vulnerable to follow-up attacks. I don't think durability would matter much. Augmenting his physical durability or relying on willpower won't do anything to help his human phisiology. When Rogue with Ms.Marvel powers was possessed by Malice and hit by a dazzle-blast, I believe she was instantly paralyzed and incapacitated. Even if he managed to only be stunned for a few seconds, which I think this attack would more effective than that, a low level photon blast from Alison could KO Magneto (assuming he won't have his shield up due to being stunned). A full power photon blast has hurt both Ms. Marvel Rogue and Colossus, so Magneto would need his shields to handle that.

I haven't seen anything that stated Alison is omega level, or that she has omega level potential, but I do think she should be. And she has demonstrated exceptional skill with her powers, so I am not understanding the Iceman, Hydroman or Electro comparisons. She has explored the versatility of her abilities and many of the applications of her powers, so I am not seeing how she has wasted her potential. She has created holograms, various forms of force fields, photon beams, create light lasers with extreme accuracy, light strobes, dazzle blasts, light constructs and weapons, removed sound from an area (can absorb limitless amount of sound), and manipulated emotions though controlled light.

As for h2h - Magneto and Alison are probably on par with each other in the h2h department. Both have had training and have demonstrated a fair level of comptency in h2h on panel, but neither are skilled fighters or have a notable degree of experience. Magneto being able to go toe to toe with Herc in h2h is PIS or WIS. If both were depowered Hercules would beat Magneto with little difficulty. Max has not demonstrated the skill to contend with fighters of exceptional skill, a category I think Herc falls into. His fight with Colossus in classic uncanny was more of a brawl, with a fair level of h2h skills being demonstrated. Even his fight with Sebestian Shaw, where Magneto opted to use his powers vs continuing the fight h2h, was another demonstration of only fair level fighting skills. Magneto didn't have the upper hand in these fights, s I don;t see why Piotr couldn't go toe to toe with him.

Either way, we both agree that Magneto wins here, and I appreciate the opportunity to chat on Dazzler (even if you think she's lame :-)). She's one of my favorite characters, right behind Storm and Crystal.

#30 Posted by charlieboy (7165 posts) - - Show Bio

i just want to point out that a dazzle blast is not a concussive attack. it is light bright enough to overload dazz's opponents senses and render them unconscious. if mags can see through his field he can be dazzled. now don't get me wrong i think magneto wins. but a dazzle blast would be dazzler's best option. 

#31 Posted by Saren (25899 posts) - - Show Bio

I would probably take Dazzler more seriously if her attack wasn't called a "dazzle blast".

Moderator
#32 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio

This could probably go either way. Dazz has alot to offer in combat.

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#33 Posted by Mercy_ (92857 posts) - - Show Bio

Dazzler has far rotter fashion sense.

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#34 Posted by charlieboy (7165 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane: lol. well she was still in the disco days when they named that attack. 
#35 Posted by Mercy_ (92857 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahhhh autocorrect

*better

Moderator
#36 Posted by charlieboy (7165 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mercy_: lol. 
#37 Edited by charlieboy (7165 posts) - - Show Bio


#38 Posted by yodagod (2285 posts) - - Show Bio

@THUNDERBOLT30 said:

@yodagod: If a dazzle-blast hit him, it would instantly overwhelm his senses, and thus his nervous system. He should be incapacitated by it, if not made vulnerable to follow-up attacks. I don't think durability would matter much. Augmenting his physical durability or relying on willpower won't do anything to help his human phisiology. When Rogue with Ms.Marvel powers was possessed by Malice and hit by a dazzle-blast, I believe she was instantly paralyzed and incapacitated. Even if he managed to only be stunned for a few seconds, which I think this attack would more effective than that, a low level photon blast from Alison could KO Magneto (assuming he won't have his shield up due to being stunned). A full power photon blast has hurt both Ms. Marvel Rogue and Colossus, so Magneto would need his shields to handle that.

I haven't seen anything that stated Alison is omega level, or that she has omega level potential, but I do think she should be. And she has demonstrated exceptional skill with her powers, so I am not understanding the Iceman, Hydroman or Electro comparisons. She has explored the versatility of her abilities and many of the applications of her powers, so I am not seeing how she has wasted her potential. She has created holograms, various forms of force fields, photon beams, create light lasers with extreme accuracy, light strobes, dazzle blasts, light constructs and weapons, removed sound from an area (can absorb limitless amount of sound), and manipulated emotions though controlled light.

As for h2h - Magneto and Alison are probably on par with each other in the h2h department. Both have had training and have demonstrated a fair level of comptency in h2h on panel, but neither are skilled fighters or have a notable degree of experience. Magneto being able to go toe to toe with Herc in h2h is PIS or WIS. If both were depowered Hercules would beat Magneto with little difficulty. Max has not demonstrated the skill to contend with fighters of exceptional skill, a category I think Herc falls into. His fight with Colossus in classic uncanny was more of a brawl, with a fair level of h2h skills being demonstrated. Even his fight with Sebestian Shaw, where Magneto opted to use his powers vs continuing the fight h2h, was another demonstration of only fair level fighting skills. Magneto didn't have the upper hand in these fights, s I don;t see why Piotr couldn't go toe to toe with him.

Either way, we both agree that Magneto wins here, and I appreciate the opportunity to chat on Dazzler (even if you think she's lame :-)). She's one of my favorite characters, right behind Storm and Crystal.

Juggernaut and Merlin were both able to shrug off dazzle-blasts, indicating that either high enough durability or willpower should be enough, and Mags has both. A photon blast might hurt him some, but his armor should provide enough protection that it won't incapacitate him even without his shields.

I've seen her referenced as omega a few places including Marvel's official list of omegas (on which Magneto does not appear, but should). She's shown a lot of versatility, but so have Bobby, Morrie, and Max. When it comes to clutch time, she falls short too much. She's had chances to really show what she could do, like when they went up against Mad Jim Jaspers and the Fury, but she was taken out before even being able to be involved, and Blink ended up saving the day. Cool, but cooler if Allie had been there for the finish. When she is shown on par with Pulsar, I'll be much happier. Until then, she's as bad as Bobby at least.

I actually think her h2h skills are superior to his by a fair margin after her time in Mojoverse. I'm actually referencing his durability. He's tanked unshielded blows from Colossus, and broke free from a Hercules bear-hug. Her human level attacks shouldn't hurt him at all, even if he's already stunned.

I've rather enjoyed chatting myself. For the record, I like Dazzler quite a bit, which is why I wish they'd do more with her. I like that you have Crystal on there too. The arc when she and Medusa came to Earth so Medusa could give birth, was pretty sweet. I like when she gets to show off, since it is so rare.

#39 Posted by WWQ (162 posts) - - Show Bio

@yodagod: LOL The only reason he broke free from Hercules was because he increased his strength. He wouldn't do that here since he is fighting someone who has no super strength.

#40 Posted by metalman24 (129 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto

#41 Posted by fanofsuperheroes (215 posts) - - Show Bio

I have a question, does the Marvel Wiki count?? I was looking and it looks like an actual Marvel website. If it is the Marvel states that Magnetos Energy projection is 6 while Dazzler is a 7. Magneto is more durable but Dazzler is a 6 for fighting while Magneto is a 3. Both same intelligence. Magneto is a 4 for speed while Dazzler is a 3. Still not sure how accurate that is but if it works then Marvel says Dazzler is more powerful.

#42 Posted by Nefarious (21262 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto wins. 

#43 Posted by WWQ (162 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it could go either way.
 
Here's some scans I found of Dazzler that show it won't be a stomp.
 

#44 Posted by yodagod (2285 posts) - - Show Bio

@WWQ said:

@yodagod: LOL The only reason he broke free from Hercules was because he increased his strength. He wouldn't do that here since he is fighting someone who has no super strength.

He may not increase it to those levels, but he pretty much always increases it in combat. He knows she has fast attacks, and high damage attacks, it would only be sensible to increase his durability accordingly.

#45 Posted by WWQ (162 posts) - - Show Bio
@yodagod:  Why would he want to increase his durability against someone who has no super strength when he has his shield up?
#46 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20387 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto

#47 Posted by yodagod (2285 posts) - - Show Bio

@WWQ said:

@yodagod: Why would he want to increase his durability against someone who has no super strength when he has his shield up?

Why wouldn't he? If you could have Hulk level durability whenever you wanted, wouldn't you keep it on, especially for combat? She may only have human strength, but she has many superhuman attacks. Of course he'll use it. And incidentally, I was using him without shields in my example. The only time he doesn't seem to increase his durability is right when Wolverine goes for an attack, and the one time Kurt ko'ed him with a metal pipe. He'll stomp Phoenix and Storm and Iceman, tank unshielded optic blasts and blows from Piotr, but somehow drop his durability, shields, and armor density just as Logan strikes. Since Wolverine isn't here, he should have his durability at high levels.

#48 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc said:

Magneto.

Spite.

#49 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (10649 posts) - - Show Bio

@fanofsuperheroes said:

I have a question, does the Marvel Wiki count?? I was looking and it looks like an actual Marvel website. If it is the Marvel states that Magnetos Energy projection is 6 while Dazzler is a 7. Magneto is more durable but Dazzler is a 6 for fighting while Magneto is a 3. Both same intelligence. Magneto is a 4 for speed while Dazzler is a 3. Still not sure how accurate that is but if it works then Marvel says Dazzler is more powerful.

It's not accurate at all.

#50 Edited by WWQ (162 posts) - - Show Bio

@yodagod said:

@WWQ said:

@yodagod: Why would he want to increase his durability against someone who has no super strength when he has his shield up?

Why wouldn't he? If you could have Hulk level durability whenever you wanted, wouldn't you keep it on, especially for combat? She may only have human strength, but she has many superhuman attacks. Of course he'll use it. And incidentally, I was using him without shields in my example. The only time he doesn't seem to increase his durability is right when Wolverine goes for an attack, and the one time Kurt ko'ed him with a metal pipe. He'll stomp Phoenix and Storm and

Iceman, tank unshielded optic blasts and blows from Piotr, but somehow drop his durability, shields, and armor density just as Logan strikes. Since Wolverine isn't here, he should have his durability at high levels.

He wouldn't because he already has his shield, which is quite powerful so it would be unnecessary to increase his durability and strength. He only increased his strength with Hercules after Herc bear hugged him. Dazzler's attacks move at light speed so Magneto wouldn't have the chance to increase his strength and durability. In the scans I posted, Dazzler defeated Hulk, She-Hulk and Colossus who have a huge strength advantage over her and like you said, Magneto wouldn't increase his strength to the same level when he fought Hercules, so Dazzler could beat him: Magneto wouldn't increase his strength to the same level as Hulk, as Dazzler doesn't have super strength. Also, she's a better fighter than he is, in my opinion and she can create force fields.