Darth Vader Vs. Darth Krayt

Do you see him beating Krayt so improbable as to make these claims preposterous?

I think Vader and Krayt are the same tier. Along with Kun, Dooku, and Anakin.

Hmm Vader cuts his head off, good fight though.

I think comments like this are completely aids. Vader is not a better duelist than Krayt by feats or even Accolades. Vader faced no one worth their salt as a duelist and relied on the force in nearly all fights. Krayt meanwhile has fought some of the better duelist, and shown to have incredible stats.

In turn Krayt also shown to abuse force powers,a nd has attacks Vader has little defense to no defense for. But Krayt will get his head cut off. Not seeing that scenario.

@sirfizwhiz: Why is Dooku there?

@darkdefender:

Yes and? Joruus instantly took hold of the minds of 10,000 soldiers but was only able to plant suggestions in the mind of Mara. Force users are obviously much harder to take control of then the average non force sensitive. Vader himself was a skilled interrogate who ripped information out the minds of his subjects with TP. I doubt Krayt's TP will effect him at all tbh.

Krayt mind raped Cade who in turn mind raped maladi who in turn had mind raping abilities and a powerful Sith of her time. Krayt also controled mentally linked to a army of Super Sith in Legacy War when he was reborn and more powerful. Your argument here means nothing.

I didn't say he was weak. I just said he doesn't have any feats that are on par with Vader's own.

Fair enough, but the fact is Vader cannot rag doll him at all.

Yes and? As I've stated Vader has dealt with and countered lightning at this level before.

Vader also suffered lightning before. Thus a factor.

Yes and? Vader has learned a technique that allows him to resist the Dark Reaper. Drain will not be a factor.

So Vader resistance is better than Abeloth or Grandmaster Luke? Nope. Though likely not to happen in a fight, its a great ability for Krayt.

And he's not going to even be able to lay a finger on Vader so I don't see why that matters.

Why wont he lay a finger? Easy since all he has to do is lock blades with Vader, and touch him. Hand to hand happens in duels all the time, and Vader has no knowledge of this attack. Facts.

All of those opponents you mentioned were not in their prime. And not all that impressive. He didn't even demonstrate superior lightsaber skills in regards to Anakin as he did it unarmed.

Haw is Dark Woman, Celeste Morne/Murr, or even Cade not in prime? All better duelist than what vader face minus Celeste. Vader is also challenegd by Luke who was a meh duelist att he time in both ESB, and ROTJ. He was matched by way out of prime Ben kenobi in ANH. Vader faced Galen/Starkiller who had trouble with Shaak Ti. he is not a great duelist considering who he faces in the Empire time frame. All the best duelist are dead at that point.

Vader completely reworked his style taking elements of the other forms and often took on multiple Jedi simultaneously. He's more impressive.

Killing featless Jedi with Force/Dueling is better than this?

Gallery

Krayt while holding back much power thanks to his Vong Parasites consuming him in the most painful way, easily takes out scores of Imperial Knights in a blitz, with no force attacks used.

Imperial Knights all fully train to be equals of Jedi of the era.

"Despite opinions to the contrary, Imperial Knights is every bit as capable in the use of Force as their Jedi Counterparts, though their skill has considerably more martial focus.

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They are warriors first and foremost, not negotiators, and make no excuses for this fact.

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Another Difference between Jedi and the Impwerial Knights is that the Imperial Knights train strictly for combat, not contemplation.

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Imperial Knights are among the most talented and dangerous Force users in the galaxy.

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From the start of their training until they reach full knighthood, the Imperial Knights learn how to use the Force to transform themselves into living weapons and shields."

- Legacy Era Campaign Guide

"Skilled in the art of lightsaber combat, the Imperial Knights use many of the same combat training techniques as the Jedi, and have learned to fight in many of the same lightsaber dueling styles. However, the Imperial Knights are also the masters of two unique lightsaber combat forms that place greater emphasis on teamwork the the individuals prowess. The more aggressive style, known as Praetoria Vonil, focuses on moving quickly and striking hard. The more defensive style, known as Praetoria Ishu, emphasizes protecting one's allies to allow them to find a openings in an opponent defenses.

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The Imperial Knights were wear specially design crafted armor that uses material found in the armor of one of the greatest Imperial duelist of all time, Darth Vader. Where Darth Vader's armor was built to intimidate as well protect, the Imperial Knights wear armor that is purely functional. That, combined with their lightsaber and Cortisis gauntlets, leaves them constantly prepared for combat no matter where they are.

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The Imperial Knights are skilled with both the lightsaber and with the Force, and make extensive use of combat armor, including their special Cortisis gauntlets design to stop lightsaber attacks."

- Legacy Era Campaign Guide

Some accolades for imperial Knights to show how impressive beating them is.

Nope. Vader dueling abilities suck in feats.

I don't see how. He seems inferior to Vader in all areas aside from versatility in the force and his other powers don't seem like they'll be coming into play here.

He is inferior in the fact Hett/krayt has great dueling foes, and unlike Vader fights his duels without the force at times where every duel Vader relies on force attacks. How is Vader the better duelist? He is not in any way.

Which moment in the fight are you referring to? I believe a tendril of lightning did slip past but Vader simply countered by pummeling Starkiller with surrounding objects and breaking his focus. I already stated how he'll counter TP. He doesn't need to counter it. If Krayt attempts to use Dark Transfer Darth Vader will simply disarm him ( literally ). Minor? You mean Vader makes drain completely obsolete. Krayt's own TK? You mean cracking a temple wall of matching a guy who through some ship debris? It doesn't compare.

I already counter these by showing the flaws in comparisons with your arguments.

He didn't struggle with him at all. He could have simply rag dolled Kenobi but instead decided to show Kenobi he was a superior duelist which he did. I don't see how it does. Krayt improved yes but he still lost after contending only briefly with an out of prime Obi Wan. Honestly I think comparing Vader and Krayt's various matches against Celeste Morne with the Muur Talisman is more accurate to their capabilities. :P

No he did not lmao. Vader in the Marvel comic version of the fight states they were equals. Vader again had issues with ESB Luke in a duel, geeting forced off the platform early on, and got tagged in the shoulder. He is not as good as you wish him to be. ben was in worst shape than the fight of Hett vs Kenobi too.

Why wouldnt he be? Any Dooku vs Vader or Krayt or even Kun battle thread shows why he is in that class.

Vader has been stated as having a weakness to force lightning and also being vulnerable to force lightning in another source, he isn't going to counter a force lightning, especially not from Krayt.

Vader shaped himself by inflicting pain on others.

Unfortunately, because of his artificial arms, he was unable to conjure Sith Lightning or be invulnerable to it.

Source : The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader

@sirfizwhiz: Only the majority say that the latter three wins decisively due to superior power in the Force, which is the case(for Vadey boy and Kun, at least).

@erkan12: You know it's funny you use that from the same damn magazine that has Vader beat Maul yet you do not count that as canon; cherry picking, much?

@wollfmyth209: I am just using the information what they gave, the result is still debatable, since they state as ''it's a close call.''

@sirfizwhiz:

I think comments like this are completely aids

Yeah my bad, Krayt gets his arm sliced off and then his head crushed.

a nd has attacks Vader has little defense to no defense for

Krayt will be too hard pressed in a duel to attempt dark transfer, lightning won't be much of a problem.

@darkdefender:

*Shrug* To be perfectly honest I believe your TP feats in regards to Krayt beget weak defenses on the Force user's part otherwise this is an inconstancy in regards to SW TP.

This is a cop out counter. How are they weak in TP abilities when they show TP abilities on a higher level? Inconsistent? Why? becuase in that era TP attacks are more popular than TK?

We are not going to agree. I feel my points remain firm.

Yeah, its easy to want to believe this, though feats in dueling say otherwise.

Yikes, Vader is being lowballed hard here.

@darkdefender: I don't think it's a matter of defense. When you're overwhelmed by someone in Force power, it's generally because you're far weaker than him or her in TK and general power. "Weak defenses" are not relevant to being stomped or not, unless you're caught off guard. Also, Ti Force pushed Galen, which isn't a display of domination.

Interesting point of view.

That is a logical way to look at it.

Vader

Reborn Krayt wins every time. Vong Krayt loses every time.

That has nothing to do with different abilities, though, it's about passive barriers being equal to one's offensive power. If you get stomped with the Force, it's because the opponent is more powerful, not because of weak passive defenses. For example, if I have an attack of 50, my defense would also be 50, because passive barriers are dictated by general power, regardless of different abilities. Of course I agree different Force users have different abilities. Anyway, let's take Obi-Wan as an example. If Kenobi was dominated by Maul, it's not because he has weak defenses, but because Maul was simply much more powerul. Ventress on the other hand, would never be able to do the same to Kenobi withoutcircumstances, because the latter is in her league. Hopefully, you see where I'm coming from.

@shootingnova said:

@zapan87: I just don't see a way for Vader to really win. Krayt seems the more flexible/agile combatant, at least as skilled (if not moreso, and he probably is), is more powerful, and brings more combatively useful powers to the table.

@shootingnova:

Krayt seems the more flexible/agile combatant,

Eh.

at least as skilled (if not moreso, and he probably is),

Based on?

is more powerful,

With regards to knowledge and versatility, probably. But Vader has more raw power, and is the superior telekinetic.

and brings more combatively useful powers to the table.

Right... all two of'em, which Vader can counter.

@wollfmyth209:

With regards to knowledge and versatility, probably. But Vader has more raw power, and is the superior telekinetic.

I'd say Krayt has superior mastery, given his ability to create ripples in the Force that were felt by any Sith across the galaxy, as well as to maintain a link with millions of Sith troopers at the same time. As for power, keep in mind that pre-prime Krayt was stated as having far superior tk than anyone in his time, which would include the likes of Saarai (who ragdolled someone capable of telekinetically stalemating Cade Skywalker), or Darth Wredd (whom, albeit with Jao Assam's help, was able to pull down a massive satellite).

Right... all two of'em, which Vader can counter.

Dark Transfer would be a problem, though, given that Krayt only needs to land a physical attack with his hands, which is something that often happens even in duels between equal or near equals.

Krayt honesty spanks Vader. Dark Tranfer gg.

@wollfmyth209:

Eh.

Yeah, he is. Most people are just more agile than Vader, and that's a fact. I know Vader is underrated in respects to speed and agility, but the simple fact of the matter is that his agility is not quite as great as other, less encumbered individuals of respectable physical/Force-related prowess.

Based on?

Defeating Cade Skywalker, for one.

With regards to knowledge and versatility, probably. But Vader has more raw power, and is the superior telekinetic.

Vader has more raw power because....? I mean, when we're talking about feats of Force power, Vader has nothing on killing Cade Skywalker and reviving him, or making every Sith in the galaxy aware of his presence.

And Vader has better demonstrable showings of telekinetic destruction, but as you should be well aware, some individuals are more restrained and their telekinetic feats relate to domination of other individuals as opposed to environments. I'm going to say Krayt's considerable telekinetic superiority over anybody else in the Empire before he grew in power (once again, by a considerable margin) puts him right up there with Vader in TK, if not above.

I'm assuming you're referring to Drain & Lightning, in which case you've skipped Dark Transfer.

Assuming this is composite Vader he's more skilled per Ant's email to the Canon storyboard's writers, upholding that Canon Vader is more skilled than Darth Sidious (for the Best red lightsaber wielder Encyclopedia entry). Its a controversial entry but if its true there isn't any way for Krayt to win. Even Legends Vader would pose a challenge for Krayt even if I'd agree Krayt can probably eek out a slim majority in a saber duel. With his power feats in canon adding to his already prodigious power feats in Legends, he should win a majority imo. Tanking the explosion of Cymoon 1, being capable of collapsing massive towers, and generally just the combined weight of all of his feats put him above Krayt's more esoteric powers and powerscaling.

Highly doubt it's true. Canon Vader has done nothing as nearly as impressive as beating Maul and Savage while holding back and beating/stalemating Yoda.

@shootingnova: kraft defeated in action by cade, that really is the truth since I have that comic issue though.

Vader takes this

buump

Still Vader.

Not sure how I missed this, but Krayt was beaten by Cade in the same way that Maul lost to Obi-Wan. Which, unfortunately, some people on this forum do consider to be the case, but that's besides the point.

@shootingnova: While I agree that Krayt wins this IMO

Again, IMO, Krayt is a victim of the media and time in which he is portrayed. He doesn't have any large TK feats because he's never had to, the only time he's in action is against other force wielders and almost every time he is (Vong implants notwithstanding) he's dominating with direct TK strikes and lightning, which because of their nature and the fact that it's a comic makes their magnitude difficult to judge, in the end it does come down to your interpretation of the panel and how they portray the speed and power of the actions. At least by my interpretation, Krayt is easily Vader level

Still Krayt, he is more powerful in the Dark Side, he has Lightning and Drain, he has comparable skill and strength to Vader, and yes he is faster.

Indeed, Cade cheap-shotted him when Krayt thought that he was joining to the Dark Side.

@greysentinel: see, thank you & why in the world ya'LL still talking about this??!

@sirfizwhiz: look up mace windu vs. Count dooku

@darthant66: What does you think of this list?? Lol

Krayt takes the majority in one hella matchup.

Krayt without too much issue.

@darthant66: Your sarcasm continues to show with great power. lol. Atleast i hope that's sarcasm.

I used to think Vader would win, but my respect for Krayt has gone up.

Krayt takes this in a close battle.

@keikrosskira: this isn't sarcasm dude