Darth Vader vs Darth Bane

LOL possibly.

@whirlwind_33:

Vader, 10/10, but I bumped this to address a "Lightning feat" for Bane posted on the last page was not a Lightning feat at all. That was an out-of-context showing which was the result of the Brotherhood combining their strength to form a huge Force Storm, and that is not Bane projecting Force Lightning - there is no instance of Lightning being used without it being projected from their fingertips, which sourcebooks have defined as part of the usage of Force Lightning anyway - or else Vader, a being of considerably superior power to Bane, would have been able to accomplish that feat, but he was unable to produce Lightning because he couldn't cast it from his hands.

Bane is very powerful, but seems Vader is even better, so ima go Vader 6/10. But Ive yet to see incredible Vader feats.

I would say it's pretty close, Vader was weakened greatly after his first duel with Kenobi, most of his flesh being repplaced by machine, this caused him to lose most of his living tissue and midichlorians, in effect causing his connection to the Force to drop severely. Vader was however, still incredibly strong with the Force and was still equally powerful in his overall connection to the force with many other Sith Lords in history. Vader's physical strength, due to his robotics, was immense, near superhuman, and his own personal lightsaber style capitalized on that. Vader was extremely talented in the ways of lightsaber combat, being able to hold his own with renowned lightsaber masters, such as Obi-Wan Kenobi. Vader's telekinetic abilities were off the charts because those were really the only abilities he was able to use. What we get with Vader is 100% brute Force, a Sith TANK, able to dish out immense offensive damage as well as being able to defend against his enemy's attack, and due to his robotics and deep immersion in the Dark Side he was able to shrug off blows that would have killed lesser Force users. Bane was also incredibly strong in the Force, being the fabled Sith'ari that would return the Sith to glory. For a human, Bane was incredibly strong physically, due to his mining job on Apatros before he was a Sith Lord, though his strength wasn't much compared to Vader's own robotic's enhanced strength. In terms of lightsaber combat Bane was experienced but by no means a master, being a form V (Djem So) specialist. Bane's style of lightsaber combat was focused on using heavy strikes to try to overpower his opponent as quickly as possible, and his lightsaber defenses were relatively lacking. However his preference of Djem So is, most likely, enough to overpower Vader's defenses, this is based simply on Vader's battle with Luke on the second Death Star, at the time Luke specialized in Djem So, and ultimately that overpowered Vader's defense. As a Force user Bane did not use a wide variety of abilities, preferring to use Force lightning, and Force based physical augmentation over any other abilities, he was able to produce a death field in Darth Andeddu's tomb, however this is negligible considering that the tomb was, more than likely, a dark side Force nexus. Bane however does posess abilities, such as lightning, that Vader is weak to, and has difficulty defending against. In the end, I would say that Darth Bane would be the victor, however Bane would emerge very badly if not fatally wounded.

@shootingnova: your kidding right ? almost everything about bane rivals vaders abilities he can match vader in both skill and brute force and one top of that he has much more abilities at his disposal, i know vader could easily absorb the currents of sith lightning with his saber but its still note worthy he could fry people into charred husks

theres also banes death field which has reduced his enemies to mummified corps instantaneously, one could argue that he could only conjure it in a dark side nexus or with high concentration. but even without it he still has knowledge of sith sorcery and force drain which to my knowledge vader has never dealt with or even encountered before

plus the feats bane has already demonstrated are already better than vaders so bane wins

@xargo: Bane has no skill or TK feats on Vader's level, plain and simple. He's also never used drain in combat so I don't know why you'd bring it up. Not to mention Vader has actually demonstrated resistance to drain in the form of the Dark Reaper.

Vader.

So many revamped threads, so little time.

I'll play the Devil's Advocate; Bane wins.

Why

@i_like_swords: Because...

XD I have no way to make a case for Bane(unless RoT).

TBH, I don't think one can form a logical case for Bane over Vader.

I'll keep am open mind though, and see if Wolff can finally impress me.

Bane was skilled with Djem So, but Vader advanced the style more than Bane ever did. He actually implemented sequences from every form to mesh with his Djem So. Lightsaber skill goes to Vader. In Force power, Vader is also better. His TK is better and Deflection are better and he possesses similar skill with Barrier, Drain Knowledge, Beast Control and so on. Bane has Lightning, but Vader can simply catch it on his lightsaber or evade it. Overall, Vader wins.

@juiceboks: what about shattering an entire temple with force wave

and yes he has used force drain before in the form of the death field and he can use to kill someone instantly

You did that one on purpose.

Bane was amped when he collapsed the Lehon temple, and Vader frankly has TK teats that supersede it before his prime - without outside power to help.

You know I love you, honey. ^-^

@xargo: Ignoring the fact that he was amped by the temple and required channeling to do so?

Which again required extensive channeling and he needed to be amped in order to do so. Vader has already resisted more potent force drain so this point is moot.

Also, Bane didn't collapse the temple. He knocked out a lower portion of it and it proceeded to implode in on itself.

Vader.

Vader

bane still wins even if his force powers can't penetrate vaders defences I'm pretty sure vaders can't penetrate his but terms of saber combat i think banes raw strength blustered bolstered by his force augmentation would overwhelm vader

@xargo: Vader by virtue of being a much more powerful Force sensitive should be able to bypass Bane's defenses. What reason do you have to be believe otherwise? And how the hell is Bane stronger than Vader?

@juiceboks: back when he was in one piece maybe but now…a great dualist but his feats with the force have been supassed by others

and bane is stronger than vader because for one almost every source he's in describes him as a large man who focuses on brute strength in combat and the use of force augmentation is a bigger boot for strength than cybernetic limbs that and the fact bane is also faster

@xargo: And Bane sure as hell is not one of the very few Sith in history that have surpassed Vader. By feats or accolades.

Large man with brute strength..sounds a helluva lot like the Skywalker in question. On a side note Vader is actually taller than Bane..not that it matters as size has very little to do with physical strength in relation to force sensitives. By your logic, Yoda would be one of the weakest Jedi of his time.

Good thing Vader has both Force augmentation and cybernetics. I'd educate myself before I debate against a character I clearly don't grasp even the most basic knowledge of. And no..Bane is not faster at all.

@juiceboks: no i don't think yoda is weak since he's so strong in the force

and i think bane is stronger in the force than vader and even if he's not vader just has too many weaknesses that bane can exploit

i don't know how powerful dark reaper was and even if vader suit was well insulated bane lighting is enough to penetrate it, its just a matter of getting in close enough in mid saber combat and any single blow to vaders mask/cybernetic could screw him up pretty bad i don't doubt his guard but….you know pampered movement and all..

@xargo: I never said you did. I just used Yoda as an example of why your logic is faulty.

You can deny all you want, the truth of the matter is Bane has nothing on tearing apart AT-AT's, using lightning pylons as projectiles, and force choking Starkiller all before his prime. What weaknesses are you talking about?

How the hell is Bane dropping Vader with lightning when he's tanked that same technique from much more powerful beings such as Starkiller and Sidious? You do realize a blow to Bane's head could and likely would take him out of the fight right? And given Vader's greater skill and speed it should be much easier to perform. Hampered movement? Now I know all you know of Vader is from the movies if even that.

Vader isn't faster than Bane.

LAWL.

@juiceboks: first of all if you'er gonnna bring starkiller into this, don't because he's the most inconsistent character ever made, in the second game his lighting could disintegrate stromtroopers yet it couldn't get through vaders armour yet sidious' lighting which is said to have the same power easily short circuited his suit (and it wasn't even at full power)

AND ANYONE COULD FORCE CHOKE STARKILLER the guy has zero defence, no force barriers

a blow to the head ? you'll have to be more specific, and i really don't see how vaders body could be faster with all those prosthetics not being able to keep up with the rest of him think about it, it makes zero sense, bane would be faster

look vaders had a lot more appearances than bane who's really only had the novels to go on and everyone knows comics blow things out of proportion, if bane was in a comic or two a i think he'd make a lot more feats,

but maybe it is closer…maybe they'ed draw

Revan wins.

@juiceboks: I think it's time you stopped resplying to Xargo, Juice. That guy doesn't seme to want to change his mind or admit that Vader > Bane in anything. Lol

@xargo: Don't know why you were desperate enough to send me two PM's asking me to respond, even though your response was aimed at a post of mine from over a yearago. And I hold Bane in higher regard since then, but I'd still hand Vader the edge over him.

almost everything about bane rivals vaders abilities he can match vader in both skill and brute force

Based on what? Vader's feats in both transcend his.

and one top of that he has much more abilities at his disposal,

If you're referring to the powers he documented in BoS, then sure, but knowing powers isn't the same as being able to use them. And seeing as he could hardly even use Drain off-nexus in combat, I highly doubt he could've used many of the other ones like Convection or Cryokinesis - at least in combat. There's a reason why he hasn't shown them or considered them as options in his novel fights.

i know vader could easily absorb the currents of sith lightning with his saber but its still note worthy he could fry people into charred husks

Vader's also durable enough to take the Lightning blasts for a period of time (ala Starkiller). His armor received insulation against Lightning.

theres also banes death field which has reduced his enemies to mummified corps instantaneously, one could argue that he could only conjure it in a dark side nexus or with high concentration.

Yeah, he could only conjure one on a nexus. It's not applicable here.

but even without it he still has knowledge of sith sorcery and force drain which to my knowledge vader has never dealt with or even encountered before

If you can show me him using either in combat or even pondering its use in combative circumstances, or anything to imply he could use them, then I'll agree. Otherwise, he's admitted deficiencies in Sith Sorcery, so he won't be using it (and the rituals in PoD aren't even remotely combat-applicable). He's also admitted in Book of Sith that Drain is nearly impossible for him to use in combat (quote below), not to mention he's only shown it in the form of Death Field, but only on a nexus (as mentioned above). The nail in the coffin for its irrelevancy is the fact that as Anakin, Vader learnt a Drain-resisting technique from Ulic Qel-Droma's spirit.

Drain life: A delicate procedure that saps the life energy of another and funnels it directly into your own essence. It is extremely difficult to employ in combat and is derived from the teachings of Zelashiel the Blasphemer in the Holocron of Darth Revan.

Source: Book of Sith; Secrets from the Dark Side

plus the feats bane has already demonstrated are already better than vaders so bane wins

Which ones, precisely?

@thevivas: Yea my patience has just about run dry lol.

Well, I'm going to have to take this back! After reading the novels involving Bane, he was a beast! If he had the obelisk armour, I'd definitely give it to him.

@shootingnova: so you'll pretty much go ahead and answers this post but you won't on my question on force drain in that last thread

@juiceboks: also just throwing this out their but….spirit transfer

He tried that against Darth Zannah, didn't work out so well for him.

@lordraiden: well she was an accomplished sorcerous, perhaps that bolstered in her resistance to his spirit we don't know how vader might react

@xargo: Dude just stop. You're pretty much just making excuses as to why you think Bane would win at this point.

This thread turned into an embarressment run pretty quickly.

@thevivas: what ? its a technique he's never come across how do we he'd be able to resist

@xargo: Every point you tried to bring up has been countered effortlessly by Juice, literally every single one, yet you continue to try and make excuses as to why Bane would win. He doesn't. Get over it.

@thevivas: whatever still think bane would win you get over it

What last thread?

@shootingnova: the one about darth maul using force drain

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/darth-maul-1168/did-darth-maul-used-force-drain-for-survival-1601246/

@xargo: Didn't receive a notification for that. I'll respond here:

you seem pretty well versed in this stuff, could you please explain the nature of force drain to me ?

Well, typically, Drain Life (or its area counterpart, Death Field) is just siphoning the life energies of affected individuals. Certain ancient Sith (and the Sith Triumvirate), as well as a few other select beings, are also capable of draining Force energies - which is basically like tapping into the Force, except you tap into the Force reserves of another being(s).

is it and dark healing the same thing ?

Well, I term "Dark Healing" as just Dark Side Healing - the dark side equivalent of Force Healing. It doesn't have to be related to siphoning another's life force.

and is it feed off life or death ??

It feeds off life energy (and, in the case of the certain applications, Force energy). It doesn't "feed on death" - not sure what you mean.

@shootingnova:"It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves…it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes. It cannot be taught…it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."―Kreia^[src]

you can see why I'm confused ^ so does force drain just empower the sith using it, or can it be used to heal them ?

@xargo: Both, technically. And Kreia's referring to a specific breed of Drain which has virtually only been shown in KotOR II.

okay. i'm going to apologise for the long quote, but i'm going to give my twenty cents.

yes, vader was weakened by the mustafar incident. but palpatine believing the limit was psychological was also canon, and him being the most powerful sith to have ever existed, i believe he may have been onto something. how or what, i don't know, nor can i claim, but his theory was never debunked - he gave up because he knew vader would never overcome his self loathing - due to the good in his heart. if vader was truly evil, perhaps he still would have done something with the emperor's idea. but read from this.

"Because his body had been severely burned on Mustafar, Darth Vader was thought to have lost much of his Force potential, although he nonetheless retained an incredibly high midi-chlorian count.^[161] As Darth Vader, Skywalker was believed to have had roughly eight-tenths of the strength of the Emperor. Nevertheless Vader wielded tremendous power and skill, enough to use the Force to overpower almost any opponent he could not defeat with his lightsaber. Had none of the events on Mustafar taken place, Darth Vader would have been far more powerful than the Emperor. As it was, the Jedi Knight Jax Pavan acknowledged that he had never encountered a Force-user as powerful as Vader, and that it would be foolish for the Emperor not to fear him.^[266]

The Emperor, having gone out of his way to keep Vader alive, took an alternative viewpoint. Though it was true to say that he had not bargained for an apprentice that was "more machine than man", Palpatine was of the opinion that most of the limitations on Vader's potential power were not physical but psychological, as was often the case with emotionally disturbed Force-sensitives like Darth Bane or Rahm Kota. He believed that, were Vader to fully confront his choices and completely shake himself out of his despair, he would have been able to reawaken the incredible power of the Chosen One within him. Palpatine's theory was lent further credence by comments made by Darth Plagueis that cyberization, even in extreme cases, did not ultimately limit one's ability to use the Force.^[25] Once Vader got used to his armor and re-tooled his fighting style, he regained some of his confidence and became one of the most powerful Sith Lords in galactic history. However, he would always be haunted to varying degrees by the choices he had made, even to the point of what amounted to temporary insanity during his mission to Atoa.^[180] Thus, while Vader made progress in that regard, he was never fully able to accept who and what he had become, and therefore never fulfilled his potential. Sidious would ultimately come to realize that Vader would never be the apprentice he longed for. He would try to replace him on at least two occasions with more powerful Force-sensitives, Galen Marek and Luke Skywalker. The Prophets of the Dark Side also saw Vader as too much of a Jedi to truly embrace the dark side." ~ Wookiepedia

now, i dunno if you saw the bit where it said vader had 80% of sidious' power. but that is a lot. and even if he couldn't make a full recovery from his injury's damage to his force wielding capabilities, the sith still do draw from raw hatred and emotion to gain power - and darth vader was certainly stunted there due to his self loathing.
even with his stunted midichlorian count, he very well may have been able to top the emperor if he was truly evil.

but point at hand. 80% of sidious' capability.
can bane beat that?

i know not enough of bane to make a fair call, but i'll present that and leave it up to you guys.