Darth Vader vs Darth Bane

Personally I think bane is being sold short here,,he' was clever enough to make all the right moves to become one of the most powerful sith of his time,,and he's responsible for the blueprint still followed by sith today,,his fight with kas was very tough,,and although people are saying kas is featless,,I felt it was implied that he was quite deadly,,which is why is was on koriban to begin with. Bane is smarter than Vader in my opinion, and as I said I think this would serve him in this fight,,but I nderstand his best feats were circumstantial,,amps and orbalisk armor

Darth Bane wins the majority via speed and force lightning.

Bump

Force Lightning for the win. Vader has little defense vs it, and it will kill his systems. also Bane with his Orbalisk Armor will protect him vs Vader's saber.

Vader wins.

My analysis:

Vader.

... what? Vader could simply block it with his lightsaber or maybe even deflect like he did a lightsaber blade.

People overrate Vader's weakness to lightning far to much on these boards.

@dccomicsrule2011: It's also not really that big a weakness, considering he has tanked it on a few occasions and lived anyway.

Indeed. They think just because he was killed by Sidious lightning (the same person who has one-entire battalions of Stormtroopers with lightning and has bent the fountain of lightsaber blades) that anyone run-of-the-mill Lightning would prove fatal for Vader. That line of reasoning is beyond fallacious.

Ironically, that's Vader's best showing really, he tanked that and was still able to live from all the way from the throne room, to the hanger and then still able to talk to Luke. Dat willpower.

@dccomicsrule2011: According to many You Tube videos of SW geeks is Vader never can use Force Lighting due to the nature of his Bionics, it would back fire and fry his own Cyborg Body, he seem to have a inherit weakness to it period.

Youtube. Versus. Series. Creators. Are. Garbage.

Did Vader blocked any force lightning at Bane's level ?

He can create it without hand contact ;

Which means it is harder to track and deflect with lightsaber. I think Vader can block Dooku's force lightning, but not Bane's...

Hard to tell, as they are all pretty much of the same opinion between various SW fans, so why should I not feel the evidence they show for it as acceptable when it makes sense and backed by facts?

Darth Bane via thought bomb

lol. Indeed.

@luciustheeternal said:

I'm sorry, but when did I ever say Vader could use lightning? I know Vader can't use Force Lightning, because I've actually read the source that stated it:

"As a result of having artificial arms, Darth Vader will never be able to conjure Sith lightning-nor be invulnerable to it."-

--Taken Form Revenge Of The Sith Visual Dictionary

I said he wasn't as weak to it as you, and others on this boards seem to have be putting it. Vader, has taken electronic attacks before, and still kept trucking like a boss:

Gallery

Also, no offense, but please do try to use your own arguments next time, and not the ones of others on a completely unrelated site, where good opinions are as rare as a Yu-Gi-Oh! protagonist actually losing a duel.

@iragexcudder He had prep for the thought bomb

@dondave: I thought it was a skill learned? Just like every user if the force; they learn the powers to become stronger.. I'm reading the Darth Bane trilogy atm

@dccomicsrule2011: I see no reason I cannot use others arguments, many people have used mine in debates and so on and so forth. I see no reason why I cannot bring up what I know (learn through my watching of the TV show and Movies) and combine it from what I learn of others to have an opinion.

Terribly sorry that many other SW fans who read the novels, comics, ect differ from your perspective, and that I agree with their reasoning.

QTF

QTF

Right. So what is their source for Vader getting one shotted by lightning when he was withstood worse for longer (Sidious')?

They do not back up anything with sources. They actually don't. They put up the odd scan to give a visual representation of what they're saying, and next to never cite from source books. They'll even follow the same fallacious stereotypes like Yoda and Vader being slow, Vitiate being powerful without rituals, and age determining physical capabilities. They've even put guys like Darth Malgus - a decent duelist in his own right - as more skilled than someone like Count Dooku - stated by objective sources as being one of the most skilled in history, capable of matching Mace Windu, and essentially only really ever being second to Yoda in the Jedi Order. Jenasarai as I remember it put Satele Shan ahead of Darth Maul in lightsaber skill, because she became the Jedi Grandmaster. Like.. wow... yeah, your rank in the Order is really going to determine how you do in a 1v1 fight when there are guys like Yarael Poof on the Jedi High Council:

It also makes little sense how in their "Physical capabilities" section, they determine who is overall better physically.. when there are countless examples of match ups where one person is physically stronger, and another is faster.

Flatly put, they are absolutely terrible debaters, and their arguments and analysis' on character vs character scenarios are completely fallacious. I already told you about the guy who deliberately cropped out part of a scan and spreaded misinformation about Qui-Gon Jinn. And you still trust these people?

@luciustheeternal:

I see no reason I cannot use others arguments, many people have used mine in debates and so on and so forth.

So you don't say? I don't think you're even understanding the point I'm trying to articulate, refer to below, for further explanation.

I see no reason why I cannot bring up what I know (learn through my watching of the TV show and Movies) and combine it from what i learn of others to have a opinion.

You really don't see a problem with using an argument from a site totally unrelated to Comicvine—who's, credibility, for all I know, could be awful—without backing it up with any kind of canon sources? Okay then.

Terribly sorry that many other SW fans who read the novels, comics, ect differ from your perspective, and that I agree with their reasoning.

...

are you seriously using an ad populum argument on me? I simply said Vader isn't as weak to lightning as you've stated he was, you then replied with nothing to back up your point but people opinions on a unrelated site - where good post are rare to find, unknown credibility and zero sources to back up your point. I then posted evidence of Vader getting electrocuted and proceed to stomp a Jedi Master - then you come at me with a post that's both a strawman & red herring argument, that has little do with the original discussion. I'm sorry, I don't blindly follow with "experts" on another site has to say about a subject on this one.

I rustled some jimmies.

Anyway, Vader should go down to some Force Lightning of Banes caliber IMO.

Have you got any kind of source whatsoever to back this up? Because Vader has tanked electrocutions before, can catch them on his lightsaber or could even use tutaminis on them, and has withstood worse lightning than Bane's. It seems far more plausible that Vader would out-duel and overpower Bane before he "went down" to Bane's Force lightning, which isn't up to par with what Vader has faced before.

@iragexcudder The Thought bomb required the power of a number of Sith Lords. It's not something Bane could just whip out and use. It would also kill him.

@i_like_swords: The 6th movie shows Vader does not deal with FL that well IMO. While Sidious has powerful FL, he was by far holding back on Luke when he blasted Luke. He look more like torturing Look into death rather than obliterate him with FL. Yet Vader pick Sidous up using this tone down FL, carries him for 3 seconds at most, and that was it for Vader, he was crippled (luke had to drag him everywhere to the hangar) and Vader died.

While Vader can block with his Saber or use tutaminis, Bane is superior to any foe Vader has defended against with these ways. Bane is possibly faster as he took down Jedi Masters by the numbers. While Vader took down many Jedi himself, he was also for the most part superior in Force and Skill to said lower Jedi. I do not recall him taking down multiple Masters at the same time. Also in Banes defense is his living armor which does negate Lightsabers to a degree, making Vaders best attack against him not that effective.

skip to 4:50

Just to prove a point, here is Starkiller, nailing and beating Vader with Force Lightning. Where was his Tutaminis here? While this did not kill Vader, it proves electricity is his weakness and he cannot block it as easily as you guys are making it sound.

My opinion, and sry if I you disagree.

@luciustheeternal: TFU isn't even canon... to either Star Wars universe...

*sigh* I'm out

@dondave: understandable. Just something I came across when learning about Bane, I'm sure I'll see how it all went down. Thank you though

LOL at TFU game mechanics. If you actually read how Starkiller actually beat him. He actually caught Vader off-guard after losing the duel, and hit him in a spot that Juno Eclipse already damaged with a lightsaber.

Yeah, that really proves Darth Bane can defeat Darth Vader.

Well like we talked about, we were using EU canons right? Seems that way with the star war community base on vs Forums. If not then we use the ONLY time Vader took a FL hit, and he was crippled and dead to a weak hit at that in the 6th movie RotJ.

Its hard to tell with you star war fans what type of canon are we using. Either way if EU or legit current Canon Vader cannot deal with FL.

@luciustheeternal: TFU isn't canon with Legends Star Wars or New Canon Star Wars. It doesn't exist. It was retconned entirely. TFU is it's own universe as far as Star Wars is concerned.

Also, this:

Another reason why SWs is so inconsistent with itself. :/

Cool, I only added it cause again you SW fans take anything that makes your own SW arguments look good (like the Cartoon Network Clone Wars cartoon before the CGI that was completely retcon in many ways) to make characters like Mace Windu look like a one man army killer, or Yoda a Jean Grey lvl in TK.

So I brought it up. Even with out the TFU garbage (and it was garbage) the canon that stands is Vader never had withstood low level Force Lightning or blocking it in any way by feats of the movie.

@luciustheeternal:

Cool, I only added it cause again you SW fans take anything that makes your own SW arguments look good (like the Cartoon Network Clone Wars cartoon before the CGI that was completely retcon in many ways) to make characters like Mace Windu look like a one man army killer, or Yoda a Jean Grey lvl in TK.

"You SW fans" riiiiiiight, whatever Cadence. I'm sure that's exactly what we're all doing. You go back to watching your youtube debators and their half-cropped scans now, okay?

@luciustheeternal:

Another reason why SWs is so inconsistent with itself. :/

No it's not. Games mechanics has always been non-canon, it's nothing new.

So I brought it up. Even with out the TFU garbage (and it was garbage) the canon that stands is Vader never had withstood low level Force Lightning or blocking it in any way by feats of the movie.

LMAO. If we're going by the new Star Wars canon, then Darth Bane is totally feat-less and Vader wins by default.

Also, this thread was made before the Legends even came about, so that's the version we're using here, the Battle Forum is not retroactive,

LOL don't think that will stop him. There's always another technicality!

It was not game mechanics, it was not average game play either. It was a Game cutscene with action triggers, showing what happen as far the game was concern.

Alot of LAMO or LOL from ya. Do you debate this way often :) Regardless friend, Bane is not featless as he has a canon line. Darth Vader however has two canon lines now, more if you count TFU separate canon to itself, and should be specified then which Vader we are using.

Its not my problem only a elite few people can keep up with the mess of SW canon that it is now and days. ;) Anyway, Bane would not be featless as we would auto use his previous version as per Comicvine tradition on the battle boards.

Yes, yes there is ;)

Vader for a solid majority though it wouldn't be a quick or easy fight.

@luciustheeternal:

It was not game mechanics, it was not average game play either. It was a Game cutscene with action triggers, showing what happen as far the game was concern.

It wasn't a cut-scene. It was QTE at best, and gameplay mechanics at worst. The novel showed us what happened and it was nothing like what was shown in the game which makes it non-canon.

Alot of LAMO or LOL from ya. Do you debate this way often :)

Often, I debate how I'm feeling at the moment. I'm in a laughing mood, so I project that into my post. :P

Regardless friend, Bane is not featless as he has a canon line.

Actually no. We know characters like Darth Bane and Darth Plagueis are canon, but the novels and comics they appeared in, is not. A tweet from someone that works for Lucasfilms confirmed this.

Darth Vader however has two canon lines now, more if you count TFU separate canon to itself, and should be specified then which Vader we are using.

This thread was made before Lucasfilm made the EU and the movies completely separate. The Battle Forums are not retroactive, so we use the Vader and Darth Bane that was meant to be used at the time. And since we use comic versions by default, we use "Legends" Vader and Bane.

Lucius I swear if you don't stop counting Youtubers and their fallacious, misinterpreted, misinformed, lack of evidence, out of context, subjective opinions/arguments and conclusions right now!

Most of time those guys never provide quantifiable feats, objective sources, or even proper images to support their views. A lot times they quote Wookipedia as canon sources for info summaries of characters, and also they make mismatches just to gain viewership.

For example Jensarri, or however you spell it, used a cropped image from Google or something, in one his videos of Qui-gonn. Saying that Jinn could only use Force push when he had his lightsaber unsheathed but in the real image Qui-gonn had his lightsaber fully sheathed and was capable of performing Force push. The same guy also said that Yoda loses to Vader in one of the videos, for the dumbest reasons I ever heard.

In other words don't rely on YouTube as a credible source.

@whirlwind_33: Fair enough.

@jwwprod: funny

@whirlwind_33 said:

@jwwprod: So awesome and true.

Vader wins because he's not a Mary Sue.

@jwwprod said:

Lol that's not even close to what would happen.

@i_like_swords: If you antagonize him more he's going to go off and make a cornellerine vs ghost rider thread ;)

Haha nice one.