Darth Vader vs Darth Bane

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kheranlord12

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#51  Edited By kheranlord12
@Silver2467 said:
" @warlord1234 said:
" @Silver2467 said:

" @warlord1234 said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @warlord1234 said:

" @Silver2467 said:
" @warlord1234 said:
" @Silver2467 said:
" @warlord1234 said:
" @Silver2467 said:
" @warlord1234 said: 
The rise of Darth Vader was connon. It take place atfer the revenge of the sith. It was stated that sith powers work differently. It is base on emotions and will. "
I never said it was not canon. I said G-Canon>C-Canon, which is true. His connection to the Force is still derived from midichlorians, as every other Force sensitive's is. In fact, given the fact that Plaguies may very well have fathered him through the Force by use of Midichlorian Manipulation, that would only further that fact. Yes, he had doubts about his abilities, but he lost potential due to the events on Mustufar.  "
Well Darth Sidous said that sith powers comes from the emtions and the will and he said that to himselve. "
Those are two separate things. Having a connection to the Force is derived from midichlorians. Utilizing the Force is through emotions.  There is a specific distinction between those two concepts.  "
Yeah but Darth Sidous still believed that Darth Vader could have still reach his full potential if he let go of his doubt and fully immersed hilsevle in the darkside he said it himselve in his thought. "
Then his theory would have been wrong. Sidious was the most powerful Sith lord in Star Wars, but that theory contradicts canon fact. It makes no difference what Sidoius theorized. Fact is Vader lost his potential due to injuries suffered on Mustufar. That simple.  "
Siths teaching is different from the jedis. "
Obviously. But difference does that make on this discussion? Midichlorians are universal.  "
I never denied the fact that midchlorians is what allows the living being to channel the forces. The fact is that sith powers are extremely mysteries even some Sith Lord have great difficulty mastering ancient Sith lords teaching. The sith teaching is all about increase your powers siths are able to increase they powers at a faster paste then jEDI due to the fact that they are power hungry. They anicent sith device that can give a non-force user powers. And Darth Sidous was a sith schlor of the highest order he understood the nature of the sith powers on a intellectual level he even wrote a book saying that foucsing on your will and rage will make you powerful. "
Sidious was able to make non-Force sensitives into dark side adepts in Dark Empire. But none of this has anything to do with the fact that his injuries at Mustufar are what caused Vader to lose his potential.  "
Sidious did not theorized it. He was supermly condifent in what he said. In the book he was trying to finds ways to let Anakin let himsleve loose. Or maybe he must have found a way. "
It makes no difference how he wanted to restore Vader's power. Fact is, he never did, and his injuries causing loss of midichlorians are the source of that. End of story.  "
What do you mean it makes no diffrence of how he want retore his powers? The facts is that he was supremly condifdent that it would happen.
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Silver2467

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#52  Edited By Silver2467
@warlord1234 said: 
What do you mean it makes no diffrence of how he want retore his powers? The facts is that he was supremly condifdent that it would happen. "
Moot point. Once again, he never did. 
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#53  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator

..... the posts in this thread... they make my head hurt.
 
Alright. Let me just summarize my feelings here:
 
Bane beats Vader easily.
Vader is NOWHERE near the most powerful Jedi and Sith. He could have been, but he never reached that level. 
Palpatine's statement that Vader would become more powerful was BEFORE Mustafar. After that, Palpatine was disappointed. He was called weak and broken; a mere shadow of his former self (yeah, that's from the Force Unleashed - it is C-Canon).
 
Anyone that thinks Vader could beat Palpatine needs serious help.

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Silver2467

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#54  Edited By Silver2467
@JediXMan said:
" ..... the posts in this thread... they make my head hurt.  Alright. Let me just summarize my feelings here:  Bane beats Vader easily. Vader is NOWHERE near the most powerful Jedi and Sith. He could have been, but he never reached that level.  Palpatine's statement that Vader would become more powerful was BEFORE Mustafar. After that, Palpatine was disappointed. He was called weak and broken; a mere shadow of his former self (yeah, that's from the Force Unleashed - it is C-Canon). Anyone that thinks Vader could beat Palpatine needs serious help. "
Thank you. 
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#55  Edited By kheranlord12
@Silver2467 said:

" @warlord1234 said: 

What do you mean it makes no diffrence of how he want retore his powers? The facts is that he was supremly condifdent that it would happen. "
Moot point. Once again, he never did.  "
Never did because Darth Vader did not fully imbrace the darkside. Im going to have to do  more research on the midichlorian.
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#56  Edited By Silver2467
@warlord1234 said: 
Never did because Darth Vader did not fully imbrace the darkside.   
Yes, he did. What do you think he was doing under Sidious's rule for 23 years? 
 
Im going to have to do  more research on the midichlorian. "
Midichlorians are the cause of the loss of his potential. 
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#57  Edited By kheranlord12
@Silver2467 said:
" @warlord1234 said: 
Never did because Darth Vader did not fully imbrace the darkside.   
Yes, he did. What do you think he was doing under Sidious's rule for 23 years? 
 
Im going to have to do  more research on the midichlorian. "
Midichlorians are the cause of the loss of his potential.  "
He may have been working for Sidous but he did not fully imbraced the darkside. Deep down he was just a misled youth.
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#58  Edited By Silver2467
@warlord1234 said: 
He may have been working for Sidous but he did not fully imbraced the darkside. Deep down he was just a misled youth. "
Which must explain why he slaughtered a few hundred Jedi during the Purge, was indirectly responsible for his own wife's death, and tried to turn his own son to the dark side, right? He was a dark sider. Midichlorians were the cause of his loss of potential.  
 
Canon fact is canon fact. End of discussion. 
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kheranlord12

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#59  Edited By kheranlord12
@Silver2467 said:
" @warlord1234 said: 
He may have been working for Sidous but he did not fully imbraced the darkside. Deep down he was just a misled youth. "
Which must explain why he slaughtered a few hundred Jedi during the Purge, was indirectly responsible for his own wife's death, and tried to turn his own son to the dark side, right? He was a dark sider. Midichlorians were the cause of his loss of potential.   Canon fact is canon fact. End of discussion.  "
Anakin was little boy deep down inside Sidous knew this. He was manipulated into thinking that the jedi were evil everyone knows that he did not mean to kill his wife you do not need to be an expert in stars wars to know this. He gave into the darkside of force but he was not pure evil like Sidous or Bane.
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SilverMan91

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#60  Edited By SilverMan91

Vader loses......i may have the potential to become the worlds greatest runner, but if i am killed or placed into a cast for the rest of my life, i will never be the worlds greatest runner....that .......simple, no matter what anyone ever said.........ever.  Second: are we really discusssing weather or not Anakin really imbraced the dark side......like WTF!?!?!?  anyone that thinks he didnt is plain and simply delusional and should not be taken seriously  on anything Star Wars.  You dont even need much knowledge about midichlorians at all to know that he lost potential and power on mustafar (prob misspelled that but oh well  :P) just plain and simply common sence.  Silver2467 is very patient for trying to talk sence into some of you who got the very basics all screwed up.....

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#61  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator
@warlord1234 said:
" Never did because Darth Vader did not fully imbrace the darkside. "
...... WHAT?!
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#62  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator
@Silver man: 
 
Well said.
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#63  Edited By TheMasterDebater

I believe that Darth Bane had a far greater level of Force power than Darth Vader.

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#64  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator
@TheMasterDebater said:
" I believe that Darth Bane had a far greater level of Force power than Darth Vader. "
Indeed he did. And he's probably a better duelist.
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#65  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator
@SithLantern93 said:
Darth Bane makes Vader wish that, he should have died at Mustafar.
Did this really need to be bumped?
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#66  Edited By Silver2467

JediX will hate me for this. 

Bump.

This fight is actually more complicated and even than the posts in this thread portend, mine included. I would like a comprehensive analysis and debate on the various skills of the two, despite whatever misgivings JXM will doubtless have about it. Contrasting the two, they are roughly equal to one another in raw Force power, and in fact, the versatility edge passes to Vader. Addressing each facet point by point, Bane's most prodigious telekinetic feat is crumbling the temple on Lehon, which stood at its apex at twenty meters. A nice feat. Vader has demonstrated similar power, having seemingly collapsed a building on himself and toppled an immense tree on the Dark Woman (the latter of which feats cost him no strain). The former example occurred in Vader's early career Post-Mustafar, and we know for a fact, based on what the RotJ novelization states, that Vader never reached the pinnacle of his ability and potency until then. As an added point in Vader's favor, he has demonstrated Lightsaber Throw on multiple occasions, while Bane never has, to my recollection. It should be within the scope of Bane's ability to do so when taking into consideration his level of power and control, but he has never done so in the past. So the odds of his doing so here is unlikely. Now, as Vader and Bane both possess a natural Force aura, their telekinetic attacks against one another will be blunted in a straight duel, but this hardly renders TK useless. Bane managed to withstand the burst that Zannah sent toward him, but he still lacks Vader's resistance to and tolerance for damage, which grants Vader an advantage. 
 
Not that this would become an issue, but comparing the two in telepathic powers, Vader does have a clear edge here as well. The only time I remember where Bane ever displayed any mind altering abilities was in PoD when he subtly increased the already present aggression the Apatros miners in the cantina felt for the Republic soldiers. Vader has outright probed other minds, twisted other people's thoughts, and has induced fear in the minds of his subordinates. While both are sufficiently protected against TP that it would never become a factor in a battle, it is worth noting the disparity nonetheless. 

For powers such as Deflection, Absorption, and Barrier, this is harder. Vader is more evidently adept with Force Deflection as he repeatedly and very casually deflects hails of blaster bolts with the Force. The only occasion in which Bane manifested Force Deflection was in Freedon Nadd's tomb in order to block an orbalisk from jumping on him, which, honestly, is not a very impressive use of it. Force Absorption is more clearly a strength for Bane, as he managed to absorb the explosions of two concussion grenades, while Vader at best has drawn in blaster bolts. Force Shield is harder to determine though, as the only instances I am aware of where Vader has shown this ability were Pre-Mustafar, and they were more to block an enemy rather than an attack. Bane's utilization of Barrier is similarly ambiguous, as the only times I can think of where he uses it, his Barrier is broken or fails to defend him totally. As to how that plays a role for the purposes of this thread, Absorption should be largely irrelevant since I doubt either Vader or Bane could absorb the blade of a lightsaber, and Barrier would probably be out of the question due to the unexceptional appropriations of it by the two. On the other hand, Deflection potentially could be useful to Vader. I have never seen him redirect a lightsaber stroke with Deflection before, as he never seems to bring it to bear in the middle of duel, but it is possible, given his feats. At the very least, it would be of more plausible use than Absorption or Barrier. 

Bane does have Lightning, which Vader lacks of course, but there are stipulations to its effectiveness here. For one, Vader could just stop the bolts with his lightsaber. For another, were the Lightning strikes to connect, he may very well be able to withstand a blast or two of it. Bane's Lightning, at best, has been used to char people. While this is noteworthy, it would hardly overwhelm a foe resilient enough to tank explosions and the like. To Vader's credit, he has withstood an electrical discharge from a net and subsequently broke the net. So while electricity, and by extension electricity-based Force powers, can short out his life support systems, the efficiency by which this can be accomplished is suspect, and although I do believe Bane could do this, I don't believe he could do so instantly. 

Just to briefly cover Bane's use of Force Drain and Essence Transfer: When Bane employed a variation of Drain at Andeddu's Temple, he had to amalgamate his own Force energies with those residing in the temple itself, because without doing so he would have exhausted himself in the process. So first and foremost, whether he can exercise this application of the Force under his own power is vague. Moreover, even if Bane could use Drain in a fight, Vader is immune to the effects of life draining regardless because of the technique Ulic's hologram/ghost taught him during the Dark Reaper incident in the Clone Wars. So that tactic is invalid. Pertaining to Essence Trasnfer, when Bane finally did attempt this in his duel with Zannah, she was on the ground, briefly incapacitated as he was, and he was holding her arm. So what the parameters are regarding the distance of the transition of his spirit are unclear, as it was never tested at a distance, and it may only be useful for a person within arm's reach. More to the point, he had to enact a ritual in his mind/the Force and then speak an invocation to complete the use of Spirit Transference. Since Zannah was on the ground, he had ample time to do this. In a duel with Vader, unless Vader is weakened and down temporarily, I see no reason why this would be effectual seeing as Vader would never allow him time to perform the ritual before killing him. And assuming hypothetically that Bane did somehow project his Essence, I find it very unlikely that he could possess Vader. Bane failed to possess Zannah, and Vader's will should be at least the rival of hers. 
  
To briefly cover Vader's Force Scream also: Scream has never been a voluntarily used power that a Force sensitive can use whenever they need to. It always seems to come about in a fit of rage. If Bane were incite enough of a reaction from Vader, Vader could release a Force Scream against him, which could be devastating to him. Before overcoming some of the initial obstructions on his powers, Vader unleashed a Scream that ravaged the room he was in when he awoke on the operations table. That could be damaging to Bane, and Bane himself has not demonstrated Scream that I remember. Still, this is still outside Vader's ability to consciously implement; it would be random if it happens here. 

On physical stats, the two are a match in some aspects and very different in others. Vader has a definite durability edge. Not much else to say on that, as that point should be pretty much axiomatic. Speed is difficult, because Vader has very few objective speed feats unto himself. We can generally ascertain an idea of his speed based on the enemies he faces, such as Rebellion era Luke, Obi-Wan, Darth Maul, or the countless Jedi he fights, all of whom are very fast, and the first two in particular have comparable in speed with Bane. It is worth mentioning that Force sensitives don't have to be perfectly equal with one another in combat speed in order to fight one another, since skill and Force senses also play a role in the matter, and as such, Vader may not be a complete parallel to his opponents in speed just because he fought them. With that said, even if Vader is slower than Bane in fighting speed, because he is not required to be altogether even with Bane in speed, he could still fight him anyway (I doubt Vader is slower at all though). For the few speed feats Vader does have unto himself, he has produced afterimages of his blade a few times in comics during duels (the ANH and RotJ comic adaptions come to mind). In respects to running speed, Bane should be obviously faster. He can run fast enough to appear as a blur to regular people; while this may not help him against Vader since Vader is significantly faster than ordinary people, it is a superiority Bane has regardless. In strength, I would favor Vader but marginally. Both have shown strength feats such as tearing steel doors off their hinges and throwing them (although I believe Vader did this with one hand while Bane did with two), but Vader has also ripped nets, broken steel restraints, destroyed a column he was tied to, and casually lifted/thrown people. And as Bane and Vader are both Djem So practitioners, physical strength is a huge factor in their fighting style. 
 
On the subject of their fighting skill, we know that Bane is proficient in Djem So, Soresu, and Juyo (and possibly Niman). Vader, conversely, prefers Djem So just as Bane does, but he incorporates techniques of several forms into his standard Djem So style. He knows Shien, Soresu, Niman, and very probably others as well. This makes it so that the similarity in their preference toward Djem So does have a mentionable distinction. In dueling feats, Bane never impressed me much to be honest, primarily because he just never won duels by skill but instead through circumstantial factors or a Force attack, as was the case with Kas'im and the Jedi he and Zannah fought in Belia Darzu's temple. In the former, Bane lost and killed Kas'im by destroying the temple on Lehon, and in the latter, he had the orbalisks, which rendered him immune to lightsaber blows and amped his speed and strength, and was aided by Zannah, who killed one of the Jedi from behind granting Bane a distraction to be exploited. Bane did fight as a rough equal with Zannah, but she is largely featless herself in this way, aside from beating Set Harth. As for Vader, he has defeated Celeste Morne, the Dark Woman, Roan Shryne, the six/seven Jedi who accompanied Olee Starstone, Bol Chatak, and numerous others (many of the names of whom are just not worth remembering). Vader did also fight as an equal with Darth Maul, Obi-Wan, and Luke. To be fair, Vader's lightsaber skill is more well documented than Bane's is, but considering the portrayals of Bane's lightsaber prowess that we do have, I have to conclude a skill supremacy would be on Vader's side. I think Bane could certainly give him a close duel, but Vader just has better feats. 
 
All in all, the two are very even, but lightsaber combat does take a precedence as far as the importance of each factor. And with that in concert with everything else, I would give Vader a 6/10 majority.

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YodaPrime

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#67  Edited By YodaPrime

@jedixman: but he [vader] did beat palpatine... technically.... lol.

i think it would be a close fight. i think Bane might have this one but just barely. I'd accredited it due to his complete embrace to the darkside and Knowledge acuqired as a Sith lord. None the less U cant ignore vader's Midi-count and his Powerful connection to the force.

Bane mindset is that of a true sith and has no doubt or regret in his actions.

Vader on the other hand is more like "i've done a ton of terrible unforgivable shit already.. might as well keep going.." Which ultimately becomes his greatest weakness. He has a heart deep down in there.

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#68  Edited By jwwprod

Bane brakes Darth Vaders back LOL!

Though seriously putting all jokes aside Darth Bane should win.

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In my opinion I say that darth vader would beat bane as a lightsaber duelist because of vaders unique and unpredictable form of lightsaber combat . 2nd - when vader is in the suit he has 80% of the emperors power.

Also vader has experience with dealing with both jedi and sith . The only person who actually defeated vader head on was his son luke skywalker . Galen marek may have beat him the first time but vader learned his lesson quickly to not underestimate him the second time . Which is why he refined his technique . Also banes , sidious and mareks lightning are all the sane because they can all kill someone with one blast or if used to full potency turn then to charred husks . And if you have played swtfu 2 then you can see the rogue clone harnessing the energy of the poles on kamino amplifying his own lightning to use it at vader and it only put him down just on one knee . Also in the force unleashed 2 novel it states that the rogue clone marek knew he would lose and the best he would hope for is a stalemate . Plus vader wasn't trying to kill him and the clone still knew that . So if vader was trying to kill him he could have done that way before the battle ended . Also vader took on 8 jedi masters at the same time . And fought for a day without his helmet using only his rage through the force to keep himself alive . So this is way I say that vader beats bane . If anyone disagrees then you better have a good argument . Not just feats and if they are feats then use feats bane has done in combat

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ShootingNova

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Vader just about every time. Stronger, more skilled, more powerful, more durable. Bane's only advantage (if it can even be called that) is Lightning, which won't be hitting Vader for a majority (Lightsaber would completely repel it, and Barrier would at least weaken it enough for his armor to negate the damage virtually completely), let alone swaying the fight to his favor (especially considering Vader's own resilience). Vader's technical skill and knowledge exceeds Bane's, and so do his skill feats and accolades. Strength also lies in Vader's favor, and it has relative pertinence due to them utilizing a strength-based form. Vader having greater power feats seals the duel on the account of Bane losing just about all of his advantages.

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bane because of lightning

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@jedixman said:

..... the posts in this thread... they make my head hurt.

Alright. Let me just summarize my feelings here:

Bane beats Vader easily.

Vader is NOWHERE near the most powerful Jedi and Sith. He could have been, but he never reached that level.

Palpatine's statement that Vader would become more powerful was BEFORE Mustafar. After that, Palpatine was disappointed. He was called weak and broken; a mere shadow of his former self (yeah, that's from the Force Unleashed - it is C-Canon).

Anyone that thinks Vader could beat Palpatine needs serious help.

what's palpatine going to do to vader? besides sit there and get chopped to pieces.

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Darth-Vader.

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#74 JediXMan  Moderator

@jedixman:

Uh... I don't necessarily think Bane beats Vader anymore.

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#75  Edited By Wolfrazer

@jedixman: :P Amusing how it all changes over the years, yes?

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#76 JediXMan  Moderator

@wolfrazer:

Yeah. Interestingly, I rarely disagree with my old posts. This is just... one of those rare times.

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Vader

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#78  Edited By laflux

Bane wins with his Orbalisk Armor

His loses without it.

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Vader

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Strength, Durability, Skill vs. Force, Speed

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Pharoh_Atem

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@laflux said:

Bane wins with his Orbalisk Armor

His loses without it.

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What does the Orbalisk Armor bring to the table that would allow Darth Bane to defeat Darth Vader ?

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#83  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

@king_saturn said:

What does the Orbalisk Armor bring to the table that would allow Darth Bane to defeat Darth Vader ?

It increases Banes - speed, strength, and overall power in the Force - as an added bonus, he also becomes impervious to lightsaber strikes.

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@king_saturn said:

What does the Orbalisk Armor bring to the table that would allow Darth Bane to defeat Darth Vader ?

It increases Banes - speed, strength, and overall power in the Force - as an added bonus, he also becomes impervious to lightsaber strikes.

Hmmmm... an armor that can block Lightsaber Strikes ? Shouldn't all Sith Lords be rocking that armor considering how awesome that would be to have in battle ?

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laflux

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@king_saturn said:

What does the Orbalisk Armor bring to the table that would allow Darth Bane to defeat Darth Vader ?

It increases Banes - speed, strength, and overall power in the Force - as an added bonus, he also becomes impervious to lightsaber strikes.

Yeah what DC said. Its extremely painful though :P

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@laflux said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@king_saturn said:

What does the Orbalisk Armor bring to the table that would allow Darth Bane to defeat Darth Vader ?

It increases Banes - speed, strength, and overall power in the Force - as an added bonus, he also becomes impervious to lightsaber strikes.

Yeah what DC said. Its extremely painful though :P

How come Anakin Skywalker didn't have that Orbalisk Armor when he went into battle with Obi Wan Kenobi ? Probably could have saved him the pain of losing a few limbs ya know ?

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@laflux said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@king_saturn said:

What does the Orbalisk Armor bring to the table that would allow Darth Bane to defeat Darth Vader ?

It increases Banes - speed, strength, and overall power in the Force - as an added bonus, he also becomes impervious to lightsaber strikes.

Yeah what DC said. Its extremely painful though :P

How come Anakin Skywalker didn't have that Orbalisk Armor when he went into battle with Obi Wan Kenobi ? Probably could have saved him the pain of losing a few limbs ya know ?

LOL. I may be wrong, but thier exsistence isn't very well known

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@laflux said:

@king_saturn said:

@laflux said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@king_saturn said:

What does the Orbalisk Armor bring to the table that would allow Darth Bane to defeat Darth Vader ?

It increases Banes - speed, strength, and overall power in the Force - as an added bonus, he also becomes impervious to lightsaber strikes.

Yeah what DC said. Its extremely painful though :P

How come Anakin Skywalker didn't have that Orbalisk Armor when he went into battle with Obi Wan Kenobi ? Probably could have saved him the pain of losing a few limbs ya know ?

LOL. I may be wrong, but thier exsistence isn't very well known

oh

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@king_saturn said:

What does the Orbalisk Armor bring to the table that would allow Darth Bane to defeat Darth Vader ?

It increases Banes - speed, strength, and overall power in the Force - as an added bonus, he also becomes impervious to lightsaber strikes.

Got me thinking though. Darth Sion would suit Orablisk armor perfectly.......

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I know my avatar might make me seem biased here,,but I assure you I'm not. Bane would win this fight,,I've read POD and the other bane books along with many other EU books and IMHO bane would win,,he displays better combat feats and better force feats. his fight with KAZ' IM comes to mind

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I know my avatar might make me seem biased here,,but I assure you I'm not. Bane would win this fight,,I've read POD and the other bane books along with many other EU books and IMHO bane would win,,he displays better combat feats and better force feats. his fight with KAZ' IM comes to mind

What better combat feats did Bane display?

@laflux said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@king_saturn said:

What does the Orbalisk Armor bring to the table that would allow Darth Bane to defeat Darth Vader ?

It increases Banes - speed, strength, and overall power in the Force - as an added bonus, he also becomes impervious to lightsaber strikes.

Got me thinking though. Darth Sion would suit Orablisk armor perfectly.......

That would indeed be a deadly combinations...

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Like I said his fight with kaz comes to mind. With Vaders body in such rough condition I'm not sure he could have hung in there with kaz like bane did,,even bane was in trouble had he not destroyed the temple with the force..another feat that makes me think he might be too much for vader

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#93  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

@bane_of_sith said:

Like I said his fight with kaz comes to mind. With Vaders body in such rough condition I'm not sure he could have hung in there with kaz like bane did,,even bane was in trouble had he not destroyed the temple with the force..another feat that makes me think he might be too much for vader

1. Kas'im is virtually featless - saying Bane dueling - and losing - to the blade master, is superior to Vader defeating an amped clone of Darth Maul while being far from his prime, and stalemating Luke Skywalker, and so on is beyond reaching imo.

2. Vader has collapses an entire cathedral before, and he didn't need to be amped to do so.

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Bane is not faster than Vader at all. None of his speed feats exceed Vader's, and taking Ferus Olin's account of Vader's speed, Vader could very well be faster than Obi-Wan, who is even with Bane in that regard.

Regarding Lightning, that will probably only matter for 2 or 3 rounds out of 10, at best. Outside of repelling it with his lightsaber, Vader can also potentially utilize Barrier to weaken the Lightning such that it would do little to harm him. Vader's durability in of itself entails resisting electrical attacks, and an injured Vader withstood torrential volumes of Lightning from Palpatine, a character whose Lightning severely outclasses Bane's. Vader died, but again, Sidious' Lightning >>>> Bane's. Bane's Lightning faces the trouble of being slapped aside by a lightsaber, or thoroughly weakened by Vader's Barrier, which should weaken it enough so as to prevent it from damaging Vader. Therefore, I really don't see Bane hitting Vader with Lightning all that often. His application of Lightning against Zannah in the Stone Prison is noteworthy, but this was because he didn't have his lightsaber. On Ambria, when he dueled Zannah and did have his lightsaber, he never used his powers, including Lightning. Now, to be fair, Bane might opt to utilize Lightning against Vader upon recognition of Vader's cybernetics, but I still doubt it would hit for a majority.

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Bane only collapsed a temple when he was tremendously amped - both by Lehon, which possessed a Force aura much stronger than on Korriban, a planet that, after having its power slowly decay over the millennia, was still potent enough to resurrect and sustain Sith spirits, and also by the temple, which was strong enough to make Bane feel light-headed. Even then, he still had to gather his power while Kas'im was talking to unleash the telekinetic wave that collapsed the temple.

As soon as Bane’s feet touched the Unknown World’s surface he felt it: a deep thrumming, similar to what he’d first felt on Korriban but much, much stronger. Even the air felt different: heavy with ancient history and secrets long forgotten.

Bane couldn’t see more than a few meters ahead through the thick vegetation, but he knew they were close now. He could sense the power of the Temple, calling to him from behind the impenetrable curtain of tangled vines and twisted branches. Clamping down with the dark side, he crushed the last of the mighty rancor’s will to resist and urged it forward.

Suddenly they broke through into a clearing, a circle nearly one hundred meters across. In the very center stood the Rakatan Temple. The structure rose nearly twenty meters to the sky, a monument of carved rock and stone. The only entrance was a broad archway at the peak of an enormous staircase carved into an outside wall of the Temple itself. Its surface was pristine: stark and pure, unsullied by clinging moss or climbing ivy. The grounds surrounding it were barren but for a carpet of short, soft grass. It was as if the jungle feared to creep forward and reclaim the tainted stone.

Bane leapt down from his mount, all his attention focused on the structure towering before him. Freed from his power, the rancor turned and fled back into the undergrowth. The terrible crashing cacophony of its escape was overlaid with its tortured howls, but Bane noticed neither sound. He had no more use for the rancor; he had found what he was searching for.

He took a trembling step forward before stopping short. He shook his head to clear it. The dark side was strong here, so strong it made him feel light-headed. That meant this was a place of danger; he couldn’t afford to be wandering around in a stupor.

...

On the landing high above Kas’im stood beneath the massive arch of the Temple entrance, staring down at him.

"I will follow you wherever you run," he said. "Wherever you go I will eventually find you and kill you. Don’t live your life in fear, Bane. Better to end it now."

"I agree," Bane replied,hurling out the wave of Force energy he had been gathering during the Blademaster’s speech.

Source: Path of Destruction

Truth be told, Bane's telekinetic feats outside of amplifying circumstances aren't exactly the most impressive. He couldn't outright telekinetically defeat Zannah, who pales in comparison to the likes of Vader.

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I actually forgot about the amp,,I knew it took time to build but I forgot he was feeding off of residual dark energy...I still think bane would take a slight majority in a series of ten

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#97  Edited By ShootingNova

@bane_of_sith said:

I still think bane would take a slight majority in a series of ten

Why?

(I'm just looking for a good discussion, since this topic can certainly get one.)

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#98  Edited By Bane_of_sith

@shootingnova: if this were Annakin (pre mustafar) I would probably vote for him.i personally feel he lost a bit of his step after his encounter with obi wan..I know you've read alot more EU than I have so I could be wrong,,from what I know of both characters bane seems to be a little better,,I could be wrong, I don't consider myself to be an authority on Vader but I've read the bane trilogy,,I think he has a slight edge in saber dueling and his force lightening is pretty fierce. He's very clever as well which should serve him well

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#99  Edited By ShootingNova

@bane_of_sith: I addressed Force Lightning above, but to reiterate:

Regarding Lightning, that will probably only matter for 2 or 3 rounds out of 10, at best. Outside of repelling it with his lightsaber, Vader can also potentially utilize Barrier to weaken the Lightning such that it would do little to harm him. Vader's durability in of itself entails resisting electrical attacks, and an injured Vader withstood torrential volumes of Lightning from Palpatine, a character whose Lightning severely outclasses Bane's. Vader died, but again, Sidious' Lightning >>>> Bane's. Bane's Lightning faces the trouble of being slapped aside by a lightsaber, or thoroughly weakened by Vader's Barrier, which should weaken it enough so as to prevent it from damaging Vader. Therefore, I really don't see Bane hitting Vader with Lightning all that often. His application of Lightning against Zannah in the Stone Prison is noteworthy, but this was because he didn't have his lightsaber. On Ambria, when he dueled Zannah and did have his lightsaber, he never used his powers, including Lightning. Now, to be fair, Bane might opt to utilize Lightning against Vader upon recognition of Vader's cybernetics, but I still doubt it would hit for a majority.

Regarding superior saber skill, I'm curious as to where that was pulled from. Bane's performance against Kas'im was both mixed and circumstantial, and his only other notable dueling feat is stalemating with (or gaining a marginal edge over) Zannah, who herself has no impressive feats to name (she defeated Set Harth, but Harth is a featless joke of duelist himself). On the other hand, Vader has received accolades for being one of the single most skilled swordsmen in the galaxy, and has defeated numerous Jedi such as An'ya Kuro and Roan Shyrne, and stalemated Ben Kenobi, all before or up to ANH. By TESB, Vader had defeated Luke and had improved tremendously over his former self in terms of skill, and in RotJ, his peak of power, he fought as a perfect equal to Luke aboard the Death Star. Vader is certainly the superior combatant, in both feats and accolades.

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#100  Edited By MorganFreeman

Vader.

Bane is one of the least impressive Sith involved with the Rule of Two. Not to say he hasn't done anything impressive. It's just that he relies on his surroundings or his empowering orbalisk armor to accomplish his greater feats. Vader is "more machine than man," yet performs well enough in battle to give most Sith that came before him a good challenge besides the 3 or so that came before him. An un-amp'd Bane is just not up to par with later Rule of Two Sith, in my opinion.