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#101 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Picard said:
" Actually I thing about it and  there are three ways to win against Vader.  
 First: Batman could use modified and enhanced electromagnetic pulse - after all Vader is more machine than a man, and he can't even breath without his artificial respiratory system. 
Two: Batman could invent somekind of chemical agent which attacks midichlorians - without midichlorians there will be no Force. 
 Three: Give Batman one of  those : http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ysalamir 
C'baoth attacks Thrawn with Force lightning while a ysalamir repels his attack



Yes, Batman can win this 






 

"
These might be good tactics if only Batman knew about Vader's dependency on his cybernetics, if he knew anything about the biological makeup of midichlorians, and if he knew anything about Ysalimiri or the nature of the Force.  
 
But pretending for a minute that he is aware of these details (which is not the case), it still hardly protects him from the entire Imperial fleet. So unless you can explain how he deals with that, he loses with and without prep. 
#102 Edited by Picard (999 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467:  Actually Empire Fleet is no mentioned, at all - it is Vader vs. Bat's, mano-a-mano   :)  I'm not a fan of  this whole deal: "Batman can defeat anyone with prep", but in this case, Bat's victory is very possible - considering all the option he have. Prep time mean that he will know about Vader's robotic nature, about midichlorians and about Ysalimiri - he will found out, and he will exploit all this weaknesses. And ther is fourth option: :) 


With prep Batman wins 9/10
#103 Posted by The_Assassin_ (17437 posts) - - Show Bio

Random encounter: Vader Stomps
 
Prep time you say?.... well.....
 

 So long Gotham...
#104 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Picard said:
" @Silver2467:  Actually Empire Fleet is no mentioned, at all - it is Vader vs. Bat's, mano-a-mano   :)   
And this was stated where? If Vader has prep, he can use any resources he has at his disposal, i.e., he can wreck Batman from inside an Imperial-class Star Destroyer. 
 
I'm not a fan of  this whole deal: "Batman can defeat anyone with prep", but in this case, Bat's victory is very possible - considering all the option he have. Prep time mean that he will know about Vader's robotic nature, about midichlorians and about Ysalimiri - he will found out, and he will exploit all this weaknesses.   
Unless it was specified in the OP that Batman has knowledge of Vader beforehand, then he has no knowledge of Vader beforehand. He would have to conduct research during his prep time, meaning he would have to study the aspects of the Force, midichlorians' influences on physical beings in relation to the Force, and about the Ysalimiri ability to block out the Force. There is the matter of how he will learn these matters as well. Is he supposed to instinctively know that there were Jedi archives documenting this information? And even if he did, how would he arrive on the correct planet to find these records? The Empire stripped the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. He would have to either invade the Empire at ambiguous locations where the archives might be, or by chance he would have to suddenly happen upon a world where there are Jedi scrolls such as Ossus. Problem is, Jedi libraries during the Rebellion era have unknown locations. Even Luke only found some of them on accident. Another thing, how would he even come to these worlds? Does he have a galaxy map? Does he know anything about the significance of any of the planets in the SW galaxy? Even then, supposing he did just by some luck find an old Jedi library and even if he did have to time to read through scrolls to learn about the Force, he still automatically is incapable of accessing holocrons, which would have arguably more useful data in them, because of the fact that Batman is not a Force sensitive. So, he would have to merely study scrolls and ancient texts. From there, he is still hindered by his inability to fully comprehend to the Force due to his disconnection from it. If somehow he found a planet out of the blue where he found a hidden Jedi enclave just waiting for him with open doors, he might be able to learn about Ysalimiri. That would be about as effective as he could be with prep. The idea that he could biochemically engineer or manipulate midichlorians is suspect, at best, because of the fact that he himself has no midichlorians and would have nothing to test his work on and because the workings of midichlorians are only more realized by Force sensitives, which Batman is not. But even if we were to set all of these obstacles aside and pretend that Batman just instinctively knows everything there is to know about the Force, midichlorians, and Ysalimiri and he managed to setup these countermeasures against Vader, Vader can just use a couple Star Destroyers to wreck all of Gotham. 
 
And ther is fourth option: :) 

With prep Batman wins 9/10 "
Batman is unable to properly wield a Green Lantern Ring, the odds of him even attempting to get his hands on one with morals on is minimal in the first place, and I doubt the Gaurdians would just give him one because he asked for it. 
 
Vader wins with prep. 
#105 Edited by Picard (999 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467: 
 "And this was stated where? If Vader has prep, he can use any resources he has at his disposal, i.e., he can wreck Batman from inside an Imperial-class Star Destroyer."
 By this logic Batman can bring his allies into a battle. :) He can call entire Justice League and other heroes, and then Empire fleet is history. 
 
 "There is the matter of how he will learn these matters as well. " 
 OK, you write a small novel, explaining to me obvious problems that Batman will have with collecting all data he needs to defeat Vader. Sure, he needs to do research. So what? He is master of preparation with unlimited resources - he will found out all he needs to know. Midichlorians? Blood samples! Ysalimiri? Well, there has to be some sorts of info about them in Empire archives - Batman will obtain them, one way or another. Vader's robitic nature? Simple observation will suffice - affter all Batman is world greatest detective. And smart person can take down Jedi - google Atton Rand.  :) About Batman and GL ring - I know this is not canon but: 



#106 Edited by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Picard said: 

 By this logic Batman can bring his allies into a battle. :) He can call entire Justice League and other heroes, and then Empire fleet is history.    

Not really. By my logic, Doom could use Doombots as an application of prep. Batman could use his robotic drones. Iron Man could use an upgraded armor. Black Panther could use any of his specialized military vehicles. It is not the same as Batman simply calling in JLA members because he is not powerful enough to handle a situation himself. He could use any equipment he has at his disposal, including any of his various armors, vehicles, or droids. These are items and pieces of technology that he possesses. Under Sidious, Vader has access to the entire Imperial fleet. They are resources he has at his disposal. He is not simply calling in Palpatine to win his fights for him, which would be the same as your analogy with Batman summoning he JLA. He is using war machines to defeat his enemies, not having notable, super powered allies fight for him. 
 

 OK, you write a small novel, explaining to me obvious problems that Batman will have with collecting all data he needs to defeat Vader. Sure, he needs to do research. So what? He is master of preparation with unlimited resources - he will found out all he needs to know. Midichlorians? Blood samples! Ysalimiri? Well, there has to be some sorts of info about them in Empire archives - Batman will obtain them,
one way or another. Vader's robitic nature? Simple observation will suffice - affter all Batman is world greatest detective. And smart person can take down Jedi - google Atton Rand.  :)
"

You skipped over everything I said without accounting for it. Basically, what you just said comes down to, "Batman will walk into the Imperial data frames and steal information." You neglected to factor in the fact that Batman knows nothing about the Empire, where they store their information, what their archives entail, and that until he performs his research he will never be aware of the existence of midichlorians, the Force, or Ysalimiri. 
 
So by looking directly at a man in a mask, he will know that Vader has multiple scientifically and alchemically designed life support systems? How does he know that the armor he wears is not simply that: an armor? Why would he assume that he is part machine? None of this makes any sense.  
 
And your ABC logic with Atton fails to acknowledge the circumstances of Atton's defeating Jedi, at least one of them being that the Jedi trusted him and he ambushed the Jedi; that he was trained specifically to fight Jedi using environmental/strategic advantages; was equipped to combat Jedi; and that he had help against Jedi from other Jedi during the Mandalorian Wars. It also speaks nothing of this fight because Atton is not Batman, and the Jedi Atton fought are not Vader.
 
Vader still wins. 
#107 Posted by The Hooded Hero (960 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman wouldn't survive first round. Get over it.
#108 Posted by entropy_aegis (15324 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll bump this thread a year later when batman INC reaches it's climax.
#109 Edited by Picard (999 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467: 
  "He is not simply calling in Palpatine to win his fights for him, which would be the same as your analogy with Batman summoning he JLA"
How to simply put it... this is not Vaders fleet, it is Empire's fleet! Vader can't just order all ships to attack Gotham he is not supreme commander of Empire starfleet, he is not even second most important person in Empire -in New Hope he was ordered around by Grand Moff Tarkin. And you said it yourself : "All resources are available!" so if Vader can bring Empire fleet, it is only fair to allow Batman bring his friends from Justice League. But this is not: Justice League vs. Empire - this is Vader vs. Batman. And even if Vader can bring Death Star itself into a battle, what this proof about Vader? Nothing! This not telling you nothing about character abilities and powers and that is the point of this discussion! It is if this was captain Picard treat and I will claim that he is better warrior than Batman, because he can simple beam up Batman into space, or order Enterprise to destroy Batcave from orbit...
 
"So by looking directly at a man in a mask, he will know that Vader has multiple scientifically and alchemically designed life support systems?"
Ever heard Vader's breathing? :) So at least Batman will know that guy need artificial respiratory system to life. Midichlorians? Look you found out about alien galaxy, and you don't want to know nothing about, people who live there, you don't even want to conduct  simple research like collecting a blood samples? And when Batman will found out about Midichlorians, he can not only develop biological weapon against Force users but he also can become Force-sensitive, by injecting himself with Midichlorians. This is fifth way to defeat Vader. :)  simple test and he know about  Midichlorians:  :)
  
  

 "using environmental/strategic advantages
You mean, things that Batman is best at? :) This is his specialty.
#110 Posted by weaponx (1566 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said:  
 

"Vader wins in a straight fight. Batman wins if he prepares for the fight. "
 
 
Agreed
#111 Edited by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Picard said: 

How to simply put it... this is not Vaders fleet, it is Empire's fleet! Vader can't just order all ships to attack Gotham he is not supreme commander of Empire starfleet, he is not even second most important person in Empire - in New Hope he was ordered around by 
Grand Moff Tarkin. And you said it yourself : "All resources are available!" so if Vader can bring Empire fleet, it is only fair to allow Batman bring his friends from Justice League. But this is not: Justice League vs. Empire - this is Vader vs. Batman. And even if Vader can bring Death Star itself into a battle, what this proof about Vader? Nothing! This not telling you anything about character abilities and powers and that is the point of this discussion! It is if this was captain Picard treat and I will claim that he is better warrior than Batman, because he can simple beam up Batman into space, or order Enterprise to destroy Batcave from orbit...

Vader has established order over several Star Destroyers. He has his own Victory and Imperial-class Star Destroyers that he can use at his leisure. He also owns bases and fortresses (notably Bast Castle) and has ordered troops for assignments purely on his notice. These are resources at his disposal. Superman is not a resource. Wonder Woman is not a resource. Flash is not a resource. Aquaman is not a resource. Green Lantern is not a resource. They are not pawns to be used according to Batman's agenda that he can call on a whim. He may strategize scenarios where a given outcome plays to his liking and in doing so coordinating JLA members to utilize their abilities effectively to serve a grander purpose, but he does not lead them around by the nose. Carrying that over to Vader, he does not have any authority or leverage over Sidious. But he can command Imperial military facilities, personnel, and ships. They are pawns to be used at his leisure, the same way Vader is a pawn to be used as Sidious' leisure. You are trying to justify a nullification of Vader's resources by claiming Batman could just give Superman a phone call when the difference is the chain of command and relations between these characters. Batman has no authoritative hold over the JLA. Vader does have a status as a controlling figure over Imperial forces. Regarding what that "proves" about Vader, this another attempt to vindicate an added gesture onto the point of this thread. Batman using a preprepared machine to fight Vader proves nothing about his combat abilities either. So what is your point with this?
 

Ever heard Vader's breathing? :) So at least Batman will know that guy need artificial respiratory system to life. Midichlorians? Look you found out about alien galaxy, and you don't want to know nothing about, people who live there, you don't even want to conduct  simple research like collecting a blood samples? And when Batman will found out about Midichlorians, he can not only develop biological weapon against Force users but he also can become Force-sensitive, by injecting himself with Midichlorians. This is fifth way to defeat Vader. :)  
simple test and he know about  Midichlorians:  :)  

You clearly need to research midichlorians if you think anyone can just inject themselves with them and become a Force sensitive. This is not even addressing the time it would take for Batman isolate and dissect that uncommon a phenomena in standard sentients when they have very few of them. And there are hardly any Jedi left, which Batman would know nothing about, nor would he would know where to find them.  
 
And again, even if we concluded that Batman had all of this information already gathered for him, he would still be wrecked by Imperial ships.
 

You mean, things that Batman is best at? :) This is his specialty.
"

Respond to my entire post. Try to avoid removing a selected phrase out of context and using that as a representation of what I said. 
#112 Posted by God_Spawn (37904 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader wins both rounds for reasons previously stated.
Moderator
#113 Edited by CaffeiNix (69 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, this whole "Batman always wins with prep" thing has gotten way out of hand. Yeah, he's got kryptonite. We all read hush. We were all very impressed, but you simply cannot expect anyone to believe that he could just beat up the likes of Vader. Vader would choke him to death. There is no "force resistant bat-spray" he can use to protect himself. He cannot prevent himself from being blown up by spaceships. The end.

#114 Posted by TheCheeseStabber (8112 posts) - - Show Bio

How can you prep for a random encounter????? anyway Darth Vader orce chokes him while zapping him with lightening an throwing stuff at him

#115 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCheeseStabber said:
" How can you prep for a random encounter????? anyway Darth Vader orce chokes him while zapping him with lightening an throwing stuff at him "
There are two rounds. The first is a random encounter; the second one is prep. And Vader never learned Lightning. 
 
@CaffeiNix said:
" Honestly, this whole "Batman always wins with prep" thing has gotten way out of hand. Yeah, he's got kryptonite. We all read hush. We were all very impressed, but you simply cannot expect anyone to believe that he could just beat up the likes of Vader. Vader would choke him to death. There is no "force resistant bat-spray" he can use to protect himself. He cannot prevent himself from being blown up by spaceships. The end. "
Batman's showings against Superman in Hush is not even remotely his only or most impressive prep feat. 
#116 Edited by CaffeiNix (69 posts) - - Show Bio

Super @Silver2467 said:

" @TheCheeseStabber said:

" How can you prep for a random encounter????? anyway Darth Vader orce chokes him while zapping him with lightening an throwing stuff at him "
There are two rounds. The first is a random encounter; the second one is prep. And Vader never learned Lightning. 
 
@CaffeiNix said:
" Honestly, this whole "Batman always wins with prep" thing has gotten way out of hand. Yeah, he's got kryptonite. We all read hush. We were all very impressed, but you simply cannot expect anyone to believe that he could just beat up the likes of Vader. Vader would choke him to death. There is no "force resistant bat-spray" he can use to protect himself. He cannot prevent himself from being blown up by spaceships. The end. "
Batman's showings against Superman in Hush is not even remotely his only or most impressive prep feat.  "
Irrelevant. Supes represents the most formidable, mono a mono, canon example of this trope. Sure batman's got robot suits that fly and shoot lasersbeams and stuff but that's hardly anything new to Vader.  Yeah, he can make gadgets to counter the powers of his close friends (like that junk he used to suppress Martian Manhunter's telepathy that one time) whose physiology he has ample opportunities to study but discovering viable strategies to employ against vader within the span of a week is simply not possible.
 
Allow me to break it down. 
  
It's been suggested here that an emp could disable Vader's suit. Nonsense! Vader took a full thirty seconds of point blank force lightning from Palpatine without his cybernetics suffering any apparent loss of function. He was able to carry on a conversation, get dragged halfway across the death star and even part with his breathing apparatus completely long enough to bid his kid a tearful goodbye before finally keeling over. This is because he had his suit insulated against EM attacks. If getting struck by lightning can't reliably kill him, an emp certainly wouldn't. It might.
 
Vader wields the force. This is serious flipping business and Batman has no exposure to it at all. It's feasible that he could use his week of prep time to learn the basics of how the force works and the ways in which vader is able to utilize it. He might even by some vast stretch of the imagination hear about something called a Ysalamiri that lives somewhere on a distant planet in vader's home galaxy, which can block Vader's powers, but he ain't getting one in the span of a week. It's also flat out impossible for him to study vader's physiology or obtain a tissue sample within a week if at all. With the force as his ally, Vader just can't be tricked or trapped. 
 
With unlimited prep time, yeah. Maybe Batman gets a Ysalamiri or builds a force-suppressing device, then sneaks up and just punches Vader in the back of the head. But with just a week of prep time, Vader wins it all.
#117 Posted by The_Assassin_ (17437 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCheeseStabber:  Vader cannot use force lightning do to injuries.
#118 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@CaffeiNix said: 
Irrelevant. Supes represents the most formidable, mono a mono, canon example of this trope.   
Superman is not the most powerful hero in DC, if that was what you meant. 
 
Sure batman's got robot suits that fly and shoot lasersbeams and stuff but that's hardly anything new to Vader.  Yeah, he can make gadgets to counter the powers of his close friends (like that junk he used to suppress Martian Manhunter's telepathy that one time) whose physiology he has ample opportunities to study   
Batman has built teleportation terminals, transmutation nanites, androids that mimic the powers of the JLA (to lower levels, as far as I can tell), armor that grants him superhuman durability/strength, hallucinogenic devices, chemically engineered kryptonite, specially designed EMPs, etc. and has in his possession other items, such as a few of Mr. Terrific's T-spheres, a boom-tube gauntlet, Brainwave's neural band, and so on.  
 
but discovering viable strategies to employ against vader within the span of a week is simply not possible. Allow me to break it down.     
I never said Bats wins.... 
 
It's been suggested here that an emp could disable Vader's suit. Nonsense! Vader took a full thirty seconds of point blank force lightning from Palpatine without his cybernetics suffering any apparent loss of function. He was able to carry on a conversation, get dragged halfway across the death star and even part with his breathing apparatus completely long enough to bid his kid a tearful goodbye before finally keeling over. This is because he had his suit insulated against EM attacks. If getting struck by lightning can't reliably kill him, an emp certainly wouldn't. It might. "
Actually, Vader's armor and life support systems are very susceptible to Lightning, which is why Sidious' Lightning killed him even though it was never even directed at him and he was merely struck by stray bolts. It is also the reason he is unable to use Lightning himself.
 
Vader wields the force. This is serious flipping business and Batman has no exposure to it at all. It's feasible that he could use his week of prep time to learn the basics of how the force works and the ways in which vader is able to utilize it. He might even by some vast stretch of the imagination hear about something called a Ysalamiri that lives somewhere on a distant planet in vader's home galaxy, which can block Vader's powers, but he ain't getting one in the span of a week. It's also flat out impossible for him to study vader's physiology or obtain a tissue sample within a week if at all. With the force as his ally, Vader just can't be tricked or trapped.  With unlimited prep time, yeah. Maybe Batman gets a Ysalamiri or builds a force-suppressing device, then sneaks up and just punches Vader in the back of the head. But with just a week of prep time, Vader wins it all. "
Again, I never said Bats wins, and he loses regardless of time because of Imperial military ships.
#119 Posted by Outside_85 (9054 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman handled the Legion of Superheroes without any real trouble in Brave and the Bold once and that was him accidentaly getting sent to the 31st century. 
 
batman in both rounds.

#120 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader wins. Via Force Choke.

#121 Posted by Logic_and_Debate (142 posts) - - Show Bio

In a fight between batman and darth vader, the winner would be chuck norris. - chuck norris fact book
#122 Edited by Picard (999 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467:  Oh, God, Budda,  Zeus and  Hari Krishna! ;) Your arguments are... well ridiculous. This is not "Vader+Empire Fleet vs. Batman", this is "Vader vs. Batman"! And even if Vader can order entire fleet to attack Gotham this is telling you nothing about Vader himself . Also, you seriously think that a huge alien fleet won't attract attention of other heroes? In moment when this fleet, will droppe out of hyperspace, it will be noticed by JLA Watchtower, and every major hero will know about this new threat. And then guess what, will happen? ;) And what feats Vader have? He slice off his sons hand, I guess? ;) He even, was unable to found and capture Han Solo, by himself - he hired Boba Fett to do this! And speaking about Han - remember that he shot down Vader in battle for Yavin? But suddenly Batman is no threat to Vader? I guess guy who take down Superman, entire Justice League, Prometheus and Darkseid, is far less competent that some smuggler with attitude? And Jedi are no undefeated, there where killed by regular humans before:  
  
  

 




#123 Edited by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Picard said:

 "  @Silver2467:  Oh, God, Budda,  Zeus and  Hari Krishna! ;) Your arguments are... well ridiculous. This is not Vader+Empire Fleet vs. Batman", this is "Vader vs. Batman"!  

So this is Vader vs Batman. I guess Batman is now unable to bring any additional equipment with him to fight Vader then....
 
A prep battle between Vader and Batman means they use whatever resources they have at their disposal to defeat the other. Imperial ships are resources at Vader's disposal. You just have yet to acknowledge that. 
 

And even if Vader can order entire fleet to attack Gotham this is telling you nothing about Vader himself .   

If Thanos uses prep to find the Infinity Gauntlet and then proceeds to use that to beat his enemy in a thread, does that tell you anything about Thanos himself? No. 
 
Let me know when a prep battle is intended to prove anything about the character. 
 

Also, you seriously think that a huge alien fleet won't attract attention of other heroes? In moment when this fleet, will droppe out of hyperspace, it will be noticed by JLA Watchtower, and every major hero will know about this new threat. And then guess what, will happen? ;)   

Right, because those heroes are actually threats usable in this thread....  
 
Is the JLA a resource at Batman's disposal? The answer is "no." Therefore they have no place in this. This poor analogy would be like saying that because a battle thread takes place on Oa, the Guardians of the Universe would intervene. It makes no sense. 
 

And what feats Vader have? He slice off his sons hand, I guess? ;)   

Are you really implying that Vader would lose to Batman in a straight fight? Because if you are asking for feats, I can only assume that was what you meant, since feats would be more relevant in a random encounter.  
 
Bats is not winning straightforwardly. 
 

He even, was unable to found and capture Han Solo, by himself - he hired Boba Fett to do this! And speaking about Han - remember that he shot down Vader in battle for Yavin? But suddenly Batman is no threat to Vader? I guess guy who take down Superman, entire Justice League, Prometheus and Darkseid, is far less competent that some smuggler with attitude?   

I like how you call my arguments ridiculous and then pull this insane strawman argument. 
 
When you have anything to present that is not a logical fallacy and actually falls under the realm of reason, get back to me.
#124 Edited by Picard (999 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467:  Scenario with ships will never work - for reasons I gave you above. And this tell you nothing about Vaders skills, abilities and powers. And you only prove my point : Vader can't take down Batman by himself, he need fleet of spaceships to do this. :) Of course you can point out that Vader is excellent pilot or that he is equally excellent droid's constructor, but no... Your lack of imagination is truly astonishing. And again: what feats Vader have? He defeated Superman, Justice League, Prometheus and Darkseid, or was he shoot down by smuggler and  was unable to found and capture this same smuggler?  ;)
#125 Edited by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Picard said:

" @Silver2467:  Scenario with ships will never work - for reasons I gave you above.   

Reasons like nonexistent thread rules where Vader is disallowed from using whatever he has in his arsenal? 
 

And this tell you nothing about Vaders skills, abilities and powers.  

So what? If Thanos uses the Infinity Gauntlet to defeat an enemy, does that tell you anything about his skills, abilities, and powers? 
 
Stop wasting my time with these imaginary thread intentions.
 

And you only prove my point : Vader can't take down Batman by himself,   

Yes he can. When I mentioned Vader using ships, I was referring to Round 2 where both of them have prep.  
 
Vader has used Lightsaber Throw to whirl his lightsaber around himself at high speeds, killing enemies surrounding him. He has telekinetically moved ships. He has withstood explosions and a Dark Side Burst. He has used Deflection against multiple blaster bolts without any real effort. He has used Deflection with enough precision to sever a stormtroooper's head. He has deflected several blaster bolts with his lightsaber without much effort. He telekinetically deflected a missile-like projectile. He has used Beast Control on a creature with enough control to ride it casually, despite its violent nature. He has manipulated Boba's mind, presumably using Dominate Mind. The list goes on. He can and will beat Batman in a random encounter. 
 

Of course you can point out that Vader is excellent pilot or that he is equally excellent droid's constructor, but no... Your lack of imagination is truly astonishing. And again: what feats Vader have? He defeated Superman, Justice League, Prometheus and Darkseid, or was he shoot down by smuggler and  was unable to found and capture this same smuggler?  ;) "

Enough with these asinine strawman arguments. Batman has never even defeated Superman in mainstream continuity. He has never defeated Darkseid either. He has never defeated the JLA; in Tower of Babel, his contingency plans were stolen and used against various League members at different locations and times by platoons of League of Assassin members. He beat Prometheus in a hand to hand fight. Vader would kill Prometheus; so I have no idea what your point is.  
 
As for Han, again, stop wasting my time. 
#126 Posted by MrRagePants (843 posts) - - Show Bio

Riddle me this: How can Batman resist the force choke?

#127 Posted by TimeKeeper (1222 posts) - - Show Bio
@erik said:
"Vader in random encounter, Batman in preparation. He just would bring an EMP or some sort of electrical device. Vader drops like a stone.  "
 
That doesn't take away Vader's use of the force, fanboy!!! 
 

@Montaq said:
"Batman uses that week to train and become a jedi master so he can fight Vader at his own game. "
 
Batman doesn't train as jack squat if he doesn't have the midichlorian count, hoss!! 
 
 
 

@KRYPTON
said:
"Batman any day of the week "

What the hell ever. 
 
#128 Posted by spartan92 (2520 posts) - - Show Bio

vader - 1st round  
 
batman - 2nd round
#129 Posted by Malonius (886 posts) - - Show Bio

prepped and tricked out bounty hunters can hold their own and even take down Jedi in the Star Wars universe. I'd say Vader wins the first round and Batman wins the majority of the second. 
 
Plenty of times Force precog fails. Even the Emperor didn't foresee the Ewoks.

#130 Posted by nightcrawler1212 (532 posts) - - Show Bio

i think vader can take it both rouund
#131 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

Prep for the Force= Boom tube nuke strike.
#132 Posted by spystreak (2063 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader wins both rounds his ability to use the force gives him too much of an advantage
#133 Posted by SilverMan91 (431 posts) - - Show Bio

okay lets just get on thing straight....what do you mean by prep?  Cuase as soon as i read the op i said, well..what exactly is Bats gonna do against his imperial ships and fleet?  Prep for me means that they can use whatever planning and tools and equipment  and items they can muster up or have shown to muster up in the past.  It dosent nesssesairly mean that their personal abilities and characteristics are improved.  Why do people like Doom win so many of his fights with prep, definetly not because he improves on his own abilities, but his use of devices and such.  That why i would have to say Vader on both accounts and rather easily actually too..

#134 Posted by CaffeiNix (69 posts) - - Show Bio

 @Picard said:

" @Silver2467:  Scenario with ships will never work - for reasons I gave you above. And this tell you nothing about Vaders skills, abilities and powers. And you only prove my point : Vader can't take down Batman by himself, he need fleet of spaceships to do this. :) Of course you can point out that Vader is excellent pilot or that he is equally excellent droid's constructor, but no... Your lack of imagination is truly astonishing. And again: what feats Vader have? He defeated Superman, Justice League, Prometheus and Darkseid, or was he shoot down by smuggler and  was unable to found and capture this same smuggler?  ;) "

Like I said in an earlier post, Batman was able to beat those guys because he had years of prep time and intimate familiarity with them. Vader did, in fact, find Han, pwn him, torture him for hours, freeze him in carbonite, then hand him over to a vengeful crime syndicate. That was like, half of Empire Strikes Back dude. You did see that movie before you joined this discussion, right?  
 

And what feats Vader have? He slice off his sons hand, I guess? ;)   

I would love to see Batman try and do that sh** to Luke. The Jedi in that vid you posted were killed by overwhelming numbers of genetically engineered super soldiers. Even with the odds stacked against them, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and many many others survived.

@Malonius said:

" prepped and tricked out bounty hunters can hold their own and even take down Jedi in the Star Wars universe. I'd say Vader wins the first round and Batman wins the majority of the second.   Plenty of times Force precog fails. Even the Emperor didn't foresee the Ewoks. "

He also didn't see Vader betraying him until it was too late. In both cases, his abilities lapsed because it was dramatically appropriate for the good guys to win, for Luke to redeem his father and for Vader to bring balance to the force, fulfilling the chosen one prophecy. Those bounty hunters had a wealth of readily available knowlege on the Jedi and their capabilites. Some of them even had lightsabers of their own. They also lived in a universe where Vader's famous and his powers and strategies are well documented. Batman might be able to build or disable a lightsaber and find some intel on vader's powers and cybernetics with only a week of prep, but disabling Vader or luring him into some sort of trap cannot be accomplished without first cutting off his access to the Force. There are several ways Batman could do this with infinite prep time but one week is all he has. 
 
@Silver2467 said:

" @CaffeiNix said: 

Irrelevant. Supes represents the most formidable, mono a mono, canon example of this trope.   

Superman is not the most powerful hero in DC, if that was what you meant. 
Certainly true. But don't recall Batman beating any of them up in a 1 on 1 fight.@Silver2467 said:

Batman has built teleportation terminals, transmutation nanites, androids that mimic the powers of the JLA (to lower levels, as far as I can tell), armor that grants him superhuman durability/strength, hallucinogenic devices, chemically engineered kryptonite, specially designed EMPs, etc. and has in his possession other items, such as a few of Mr. Terrific's T-spheres, a boom-tube gauntlet, Brainwave's neural band, and so on. 

 With an army of Doombots and a suit of power armor, Batman becomes a completely different character.
 

 Actually, Vader's armor and life support systems are very susceptible to Lightning, which is why Sidious' Lightning killed him even though it was never even directed at him and he was merely struck by stray bolts. It is also the reason he is unable to use Lightning himself.  

You can actually see how much powerful those bolts are than the ones that hit Luke. Vader's skeleton glows right through his suit. Garen Malek rocked a disarmed Vader with a full force blast and Vader recovered completely. But even if an EMP was a sure-fire way to beat Vader, I would think it would also kill him. Batman with morals on probably wouldn't risk this.
#135 Posted by HolySerpent (12547 posts) - - Show Bio

vadar stomps.
#136 Posted by TerryBogard2014 (480 posts) - - Show Bio
Round 1 
Vader force chockes the crap out of batman
 
Round 2 
preemptive strike.vader blows up earth midway threw the week with the death star
#137 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@CaffeiNix said: 
 With an army of Doombots and a suit of power armor, Batman becomes a completely different character.  
Not really sure how this is relevant to the thread. Everything I listed are simply applications of prep on Batman's part, and he has prep in Round 2, ergo, he can use anything I listed or anything else. However, Batman loses both because of Imperial ships.
 
And Bats has no Doombots, by the way. 
 
You can actually see how much powerful those bolts are than the ones that hit Luke. Vader's skeleton glows right through his suit.   
Or maybe that just proves that the Lightning passes straight through his armor. He has no defense against Lightning. This is the reason he never learned it himself. He was killed by mere bolts of it indirectly coursing through his body. Hardly a showing of resiliency against Lightning. 
 
Garen Malek rocked a disarmed Vader with a full force blast and Vader recovered completely.    
Starkiller hit Vader with a Dark Side Burst upon his death, and Vader was actually fairly injured from it. 
 
But even if an EMP was a sure-fire way to beat Vader, I would think it would also kill him. Batman with morals on probably wouldn't risk this. "
Where did the discussion about Lightning come from? You were attempting to refute a notion that Batman could use an EMP. That has nothing to do with Force Lightning. The properties and practical uses of Lightning are entirely different. All it is is a destructive power of projecting Force energy-derived electricity onto a target to shock and burn it. It does not short out electrical-based machinery by releasing a wave of electromagnetic radiation. Force Lightning =/= EMP.
 
If an EMP did kill Vader, it would be because he relies on his life support systems for survival and would eventually die from their shut off.  
 
And Batman loses the prep battle anyway.
#138 Posted by primepower53 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman then Bane
#139 Posted by battlexlordx (314 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sherlock said:
" Batman cause Anikan is a whiny Bitch "
but vader isnt
#140 Posted by spystreak (2063 posts) - - Show Bio
@primepower53 said:
"Batman then Bane "

WTF it's Batman vs Darth Vader when did Bane come into the picture?
#141 Posted by departed402 (549 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 – Vader, hands down.
 
Round 2 – It depends on how far their prep can go, and what resources they're allowed to wrangle up. If it's limitless Vader can take his Super Star Destroyer and glass Gotham, and it's game over for Batman. However, if the prep is for a duel between the two combatants then it can go either way. Batman may find a way to electrocute Vader, and fry his life support. However, I can imagine a ton a ways Vader can beat Batman.     

#142 Posted by Renee (10289 posts) - - Show Bio
#143 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Renee said:
"
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LOL.
#144 Posted by PowerHerc (84035 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader wins.   
Batman is no match fort the power of the dark side.
#145 Posted by jakeeboi17 (4369 posts) - - Show Bio

I say Vader for both :)

#146 Posted by uban (7 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader vs Jedi trained Batman

#147 Posted by GTG12 (1575 posts) - - Show Bio

vader then maybe batman
#148 Posted by Dracade102 (8167 posts) - - Show Bio
@Spike 335 said:
" unless batman has a super secet machine that cancles out the fact that vader is a precog..then batman doesnt win with or without prep   "
#149 Posted by ReverseNegative (2729 posts) - - Show Bio

Screw the bat-computer. Batman could just Google 'Darth Vader'.

#150 Posted by FunnyStuff707 (179 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReverseNegative said:
" Screw the bat-computer. Batman could just Google 'Darth Vader'. "
Quoted for win.
I say if a crossover was ever written, like as an Elseworld, you'd find out Batman actually had the Force in him, thereby allowing him to stomp Vader, because Batman just does that.