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#1 Edited by jumpstart55 (2278 posts) - - Show Bio
 
VS 
#2 Edited by jumpstart55 (2278 posts) - - Show Bio

Darth Vader(EU) Expanded Universe.

 Avatar Roku has access to the avatar state.

#3 Posted by Nefarious (20470 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with Anakin here. He will crush Roku with the force.

#4 Posted by SpidermanWins (3982 posts) - - Show Bio

Force Choke cannot be blocked by the elements =)

#5 Posted by EpitomeofCool (2779 posts) - - Show Bio

unless roku hits him first, vader.....

#6 Posted by The Stegman (24499 posts) - - Show Bio

Roku, due to having airbending training, he's faster/more agile 
 
can do long distance attacks 
 
could just set him on fire 
 
could trap him in a rock prison 
 
so many other reasons

#7 Posted by qawsed12345 (18 posts) - - Show Bio

Force Choke, Force Crush, Force Speed, Precognition, Telekinesis, Sith Alchemy, and raw power approximately equal to Starkiller who pulled a Star Destroyer out of the sky. Vader wins.

#8 Posted by Hyperlight (5873 posts) - - Show Bio

because the force is much more ambiguous and gives access to TK id give it to vader. Roku has a lot of raw power in his own right. I have no doubt that roku could damage him and could attack Vader in a variety of ways that Vader wouldn't be use to. still giving it to vader

#9 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@qawsed12345 said:

Force Choke, Force Crush, Force Speed, Precognition, Telekinesis, Sith Alchemy, and raw power approximately equal to Starkiller who pulled a Star Destroyer out of the sky. Vader wins.

Starkiller never pulled a Destroyer out of the sky... It was already falling, he just more or less re-directed it.

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#10 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@qawsed12345 said:
Sith Alchemy
Show me Vader displaying an affinity for Sith alchemy. 
 
Not that it really matters, because Sith alchemy is absolutely useless in a fight.
#11 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@qawsed12345 said:
Sith Alchemy
Show me Vader displaying an affinity for Sith alchemy. Not that it really matters, because Sith alchemy is absolutely useless in a fight.

How exactly does Sith alchemy differ from the norm?

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#12 Posted by Illuminatus (9509 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
@qawsed12345 said:
Sith Alchemy
Show me Vader displaying an affinity for Sith alchemy.  Not that it really matters, because Sith alchemy is absolutely useless in a fight.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Alchemy can be useful, but only when speaking from a purely preparation viewpoint.
#13 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget said:

@Silver2467 said:

@qawsed12345 said:
Sith Alchemy
Show me Vader displaying an affinity for Sith alchemy. Not that it really matters, because Sith alchemy is absolutely useless in a fight.

How exactly does Sith alchemy differ from the norm?

Sith alchemy is a means of altering the physical composition of creatures or objects or machines to make them more powerful. For instance, a Sith alchemist could gather the needed materials and objects to imbue a Sith sword with dark side energy to render it more durable and prevent it from dulling. Or an alchemist could manipulate the physicality of a creature to grant it superior physical power, imbue it with uncontrolled ferocity, afford it defenses against Force powers, or all of the above. So on and so on. There is nothing Sith alchemy can do in a fight, unless the user has an object with Sith alchemical power prepared beforehand.
#14 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nefarious said:

I'm going with Anakin here. He will crush Roku with the force.
#15 Posted by Montaq (935 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader has got speed on his side. One slash and it's over.
#16 Posted by qawsed12345 (18 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: In The Force Unleashed, it's not falling, it actually goes back to it's original position if you let go of it

#17 Posted by qawsed12345 (18 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Sorry, that was one of Vader's apprentices. If I'm not mistaken, she could create smoke demons with sith alchemy, which are probably immune to anything Roku can throw at them. Vader can just throw a ball of kinetite at Roku though and be done with it.

#18 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20264 posts) - - Show Bio

Couldn't Vader technically earthbend with the force as well?

Anyways, I say whoever uses their abilities first wins. Force and Element bending are very close,

#19 Posted by whydama (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

Did Roku ever learn Sound bending or any of the extra bending techniques? There were 9 levels or something in that episode where Aang went to the yoga guy.

#20 Posted by darktiger (4614 posts) - - Show Bio

I am going with darth vader hear he has more of a killer instinct

#21 Posted by thebatmobile12 (44 posts) - - Show Bio

Can Roku bloodbend?

#22 Posted by Ms. Omega (4473 posts) - - Show Bio

Roku because he doesnt have asthma like Darth Vadar dust ball to the face or airbend the air out of his lungs.

#23 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@EpitomeofCool said:

unless roku hits him first, vader.....
#24 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@qawsed12345 said:

@Deranged Midget: In The Force Unleashed, it's not falling, it actually goes back to it's original position if you let go of it

That was more or less in line with the game mechanic. You don't properly complete the QTE and it resets.

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#25 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (25026 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader He has the choke.

#26 Posted by ChadwickDavis (445 posts) - - Show Bio

@qawsed12345: Force Choke, Force Crush, Force Speed, Precognition, Telekinesis, Sith Alchemy, and raw power approximately equal to Starkiller who pulled a Star Destroyer out of the sky. Vader wins

Valid arguments, but I disagree

Roku's counter:

Force Choke/ Airbending to suck the air out of Vader's (already charred) lungs.

Force Crush/ Earth or Metalbending...dont believe me ask toph Bei Fong...enough said.

Force Speed/ Airbending or firebending for speed bursts.

Telekinesis: Airbending or Metalbending depending on the object

Precognition/ Retrocognition in Avatar state to draw power from past Avatars.

Sith Alchemy// You got me on that one no defense for that one except keeping ones distance and not getting hit

and raw power approximately equal to Starkiller who pulled a Star Destroyer out of the sky./ As Anakin Skywalker...very likely, but when he became Darth Vader, his injuries diminished his full potential both physically and in the force.

Winner Roku: Rationale

1: the purpose of the Avatar was to restore balance to the world and Anakin Skywalker was supposed to do the same in the force. This essentially made them equals on ultimate purpose.

2: Roku had the wisdom and power of all the Avatars who came before him and Vader only had Palpatine who would likely try to corrupt Roku so he would kill Vader.

3: In terms of Raw power- when Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader his power level was severely diminished while the Avatar can activate the Avatar State and become one with both nature and all aspects of himself; which is essentially becoming one with the Force without dying and gaining all the powers thereof.

#27 Edited by ShootingNova (17406 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChadwickDavis: Firstly, Vader is more powerful than Anakin. Secondly, he wasn't severely diminished at all, he grew more powerful with his hatred and was nearly invincible, and gained much more knowledge, wisdom and experience.

Thirdly, Galen Marek (Starkiller's real name) never even pulled the Star Destroyer out of the sky, all he did was guide it so it hit the Junk Cannon, because it was already falling. If you read the novelization, you would know that.

Vader never showed even partial affinity for Alchemy, and its absolutely inconsequential in a fight, unless other creatures and what not have been prepared beforehand.

Vader still has more than that, including Kinetite. He can react to sub-light moving ships.

Nonetheless, your other points stand.

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#28 Posted by ShootingNova (17406 posts) - - Show Bio

@qawsed12345 said:

@Deranged Midget: In The Force Unleashed, it's not falling, it actually goes back to it's original position if you let go of it

Which is not canon. Reading the novel, it falls and Marek redirects it. Why you talk about pointless game mechanics is beyond me.

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#29 Posted by KalTheHokage_2007 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

Avatar Roku destroys the man with the burnt @$$ face. (if any gets my reference, kudos to you)

#30 Posted by ShootingNova (17406 posts) - - Show Bio

@KalTheHokage_2007: Can you post reasons as to why such would happen? I'm not against you or anything, but I want to see your reasoning.

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#31 Posted by KalTheHokage_2007 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Roku uses the Avatar state to destroy Vader's suit, and, in the process, his breathing gear. Game and set.

#32 Posted by ShootingNova (17406 posts) - - Show Bio

@KalTheHokage_2007:Dude, its game, set and match. LOL, its not that easy. Vader could just hit with a ball of Kinetite, or throw him around, or crush him (granted if he strikes first and is successful), and there are other ways. Vader has reacted to sub-light moving ships before, and moved so fast he was "teleporting".

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#33 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

What exactly do you Star Wars fans mean when you bring up reacting at sub-light speeds? Seems pretty vague.

#34 Posted by ShootingNova (17406 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt: Anakin has reacted to ships moving at sub-light speeds:

Obi-Wan was already making that exact move as Anakin spoke. But they were inverted to each other: breaking right shot him one way while Anakin whipped the other. The tri-fighters' cannons ripped space between them, tracking faster than their starfighters could slip. His onboard threat display chimed a warning: two of the droids had remote sensor locks on him. The others must have lit up his partner. "Anakin! Slip-jaws!"
"My thought exactly."
They blew past the tri-fighters, looping in evasive spirals. The droid ships wrenched themselves into pursuit maneuvers that would have killed any living pilot. The slip-jaws maneuver was named for the scissorlike mandibles of the Kashyyyk slash-spider. Droids closing rapidly on their tails, cannonfire stitching space on all sides, the two Jedi pulled their ships through perfectly mirrored rolls that sent them streaking head-on for each other from opposite ends of a vast Republic cruiser. For merely human pilots, this would be suicide. By the time you can see your partner's starfighter streaking toward you at a respectable fraction of lightspeed, it's already too late for your merely human reflexes to react.
But these particular pilots were far from merely human.
The Force nudged hands on control yokes and the Jedi starfighters twisted and flashed past each other belly-to-belly, close enough to scorch each other's paint.

---Taken from the Revenge of the Sith novel.

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#35 Posted by ChadwickDavis (445 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Firstly, Vader is more powerful than Anakin. Secondly, he wasn't severely diminished at all, he grew more powerful with his hatred and was nearly invincible, and gained much more knowledge, wisdom and experience.

Actually his overall power levels did diminish greatly. He drew upon his hatred as the primary fuel source for his force powers, but it didn't make him "nearly invincible" but he was still a threat. In regards to the gained experience, Wisdom and knowledge...no arguments there.

Thirdly, Galen Marek (Starkiller's real name) never even pulled the Star Destroyer out of the sky, all he did was guide it so it hit the Junk Cannon, because it was already falling. If you read the novelization, you would know that.

actually I read the novel and played the game and in both "instances" he had to "forcefully" redirect the destroyer to the location. and in regards to the Starkiller aspect I was responding to qawsed12345's argument.

@ShootingNova: Vader could just hit with a ball of Kinetite

"Kinetite was a sphere of restrained kinetic energy which could be

thrown at an enemy. The ball was fist-sized and could batter down most

obstacles in its path. Some Sith Masters had been known to flatten ferrocrete

bunkers with kinetite. Nevertheless, if the target of the kinetite employed the

Force defensively, the kinetite could be easily deflected back to its owner."

Kinetite is not a guaranteed win, roku could either deflect it or counter it with a blast of his own.

#36 Edited by ShootingNova (17406 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChadwickDavis: Dude, just click on quote.

@ChadwickDavis said:

@ShootingNova: Firstly, Vader is more powerful than Anakin. Secondly, he wasn't severely diminished at all, he grew more powerful with his hatred and was nearly invincible, and gained much more knowledge, wisdom and experience.

Actually his overall power levels did diminish greatly. He drew upon his hatred as the primary fuel source for his force powers, but it didn't make him "nearly invincible" but he was still a threat. In regards to the gained experience, Wisdom and knowledge...no arguments there.

Thirdly, Galen Marek (Starkiller's real name) never even pulled the Star Destroyer out of the sky, all he did was guide it so it hit the Junk Cannon, because it was already falling. If you read the novelization, you would know that.

actually I read the novel and played the game and in both "instances" he had to "forcefully" redirect the destroyer to the location. and in regards to the Starkiller aspect I was responding to qawsed12345's argument.

@ShootingNova: Vader could just hit with a ball of Kinetite

"Kinetite was a sphere of restrained kinetic energy which could be

thrown at an enemy. The ball was fist-sized and could batter down most

obstacles in its path. Some Sith Masters had been known to flatten ferrocrete

bunkers with kinetite. Nevertheless, if the target of the kinetite employed the

Force defensively, the kinetite could be easily deflected back to its owner."

Kinetite is not a guaranteed win, roku could either deflect it or counter it with a blast of his own.

Firstly, Vader is more powerful than Anakin. He wasn't severely diminished, his potential was, but he remained stronger than he was as Anakin. He was in his prime as Vader.

Secondly, that would mean the Marek never pulled the Star Destroyer out of the sky, he redirected its path to hit the Junk Cannon, which is nowhere near the same as telekinetically pulling it out of the sky and launching it at the Junk Cannon. So do we have an agreement?

Kinetite is not a guaranteed win, of course it isn't. I was just saying it was a potential way for victory. Roku doesn't draw upon the Force, so he isn't redirecting it easily. But he could through other ways.

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#37 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova I guess my point is that the snail moving along the ground is moving at sub-light speed. So is Quicksilver. So does my car. "Sizeable fraction of light speed" is a little more quantifiable, but still open to interpretation.

#38 Posted by ShootingNova (17406 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt: Your reply function failing? In any sense, sub-light speed is typically around half the speed of light in SW. The ships would have killed any normal pilot, but Anakin and Obi-Wan reacted fast enough.

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#39 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova I have to type it out because most of my posts come from my IPhone, which doesn't allow me to quote/reply/post pics/etc. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to go to your inbox. Thanks for the clarification on terminology.

#40 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio

The Dark Nest trilogy described sublight speed as a "substantial fraction of light speed." Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor described it as "near-relativistic." 
 
Max sublight speeds on starfighters and capital ships are below light speed but still a very large portion of it.

#41 Posted by ShootingNova (17406 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt: Yep, it doesn't.

I'll check as often as possible to see for replies though.

No problem, but sometime sub-light speed can be a different speed.

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#42 Posted by qawsed12345 (18 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChadwickDavis: One needs to touch metal to metalbend. they can't even bend adamantium. vader's armor is stronger than durasteel (which is 3000,000 times stronger than steel) Force choke>airbending. also, had Darth vader not been injured, he could have destroyed Avatar world with a casual sweep of his hand. Also, airbending speed does not compare to force speed. Roku might have more raw power. Maybe. Vader still wins though. Plus kinetite is overkill.

#43 Edited by qawsed12345 (18 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChadwickDavis: @ChadwickDavis: Unless Roku is a jedi, he cannot redirect it. You HAVE to use the force to redirect it.

#44 Posted by ShootingNova (17406 posts) - - Show Bio

@qawsed12345: No you don't. Where are you getting this from? Some metals and force fields can resist it.

@qawsed12345: Vader's powers at his full potential are speculative. Its best that we don't talk about it so much. Vader's armor is made partly of durasteel, but the reason why he seems nearly invincible is because of his rage.

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#45 Posted by steelhound56 (1074 posts) - - Show Bio

@qawsed12345: *sigh*

Starkiller did NOT pull down a Star Destroyer. It returns to the original position because of a game mechanic.

In the novels, which are more canon than the game IMO, Starkiller barely manages to redirect a crashing Star Destroyer a tiny bit, and almost dies doing it.

But aside from all that, Vader wins, if only because Roku needs to perform movements to bend the elements, and Vader can just crush Roku with TK as soon as the fight begins

#46 Edited by qawsed12345 (18 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Ok 1. Luke at full potential = Vader at full potential (Lucas said so). Luke can move black holes, teleport, and defeated Abeloth, a dark side goddess 26 times more powerful than Darth Sidious. Darth Sidious can destroy planets by draining all life on them or breaking barriers between dimensions, in addition to being able to teleport light years, disintegrate hundreds of people with force lightning, immortality, killing people by looking at them, the list goes on. Vader, in power, is 80% of Darth Sidious, but lacks the knowledge to do anything I just said Sidious could do. that still provides an insight on Vader's powers. Vader can just crush Roku's windpipe and that's it. Whether Roku is one with nature or not doesn't matter here. 2. Roku has neither the metals or force fields to resist Vader's kinetite. maybe he can survive a blast sure, but it will be hard. I just don't see what Roku will do once Vader crushes his bones in the first second of the fight. Roku has more raw power int he sense of he can destroy more buildings than Vader in a minute, but Vader can always crush his head into a bloody pulp. Also, Roku does not know how to metalbend as Toph invented that, and she came after Roku's time. Nothing in the avatar world would stand a chance against a semi-good sith lord, except maybe the avatar. Even the avatar would not stand a chance against one of the most powerful sith lords ever.

Vader can read minds as well. Look up drain knowledge on wookieepedia.

#47 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@qawsed12345 said:

@Deranged Midget: In The Force Unleashed, it's not falling, it actually goes back to it's original position if you let go of it

Which is not canon. Reading the novel, it falls and Marek redirects it. Why you talk about pointless game mechanics is beyond me.

Exactly, hence why I stated this:

@Deranged Midget said:

That was more or less in line with the game mechanic. You don't properly complete the QTE and it resets.

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#48 Posted by Lunacyde (19137 posts) - - Show Bio
@steelhound56 said:

@qawsed12345: *sigh*

Starkiller did NOT pull down a Star Destroyer. It returns to the original position because of a game mechanic.

In the novels, which are more canon than the game IMO, Starkiller barely manages to redirect a crashing Star Destroyer a tiny bit, and almost dies doing it.

But aside from all that, Vader wins, if only because Roku needs to perform movements to bend the elements, and Vader can just crush Roku with TK as soon as the fight begins

Well Avatar level bending can sometimes be done psychically, or with minimal movement, but I would agree Vader likely wins if he just comes out with his best stuff off the bat.
#49 Posted by ShootingNova (17406 posts) - - Show Bio

@steelhound56 said:

@qawsed12345: *sigh*

Starkiller did NOT pull down a Star Destroyer. It returns to the original position because of a game mechanic.

In the novels, which are more canon than the game IMO, Starkiller barely manages to redirect a crashing Star Destroyer a tiny bit, and almost dies doing it.

But aside from all that, Vader wins, if only because Roku needs to perform movements to bend the elements, and Vader can just crush Roku with TK as soon as the fight begins

Of course it bears more canon than game mechanics.

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#50 Posted by steelhound56 (1074 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: yep. TFU was an awful canon decision by Lucas IMO. Just terrible. The novel is a little better, but Starkiller shouldn't have been that powerful. Marek beating Vader? No, just no. The very idea is absurd.

It has been heavily implied that aside from Luke, Sidious, and possibly Yoda, Vader was the strongest Force user in history. Even after being maimed by Kenobi, EU Vader has absolutely ridiculous feats of Force ability. He's far faster and more agile than people perceive him to be, and an incredibly skilled duelist.

Heck, if I knew the starting distance in this fight, I might be able to say Vader just speedblitzes Roku. He's fast enough to fight multiple Jedi simultaneously, with no visible exertion on his part.

The only problem that I see Vader having to deal with where Roku is concerned is if Roku decides to generate lightning and use that against Vader. But he has his lightsaber, precog, and vastly superior reaction time, so I really dont see Roku being able to score any direct hits that would disable Vader's life support systems.