Different times... Same person. But who wins?
- Anakin is angry
- Vader is annoyed
Going with suited Vader
He's debatably the better swordsman, and has feats of Force power that would make Anakin crap himself.
Just because he's been burned to a crisp doesn't make him any less of a monster.
In terms of potential
Anakin>>>>>> Vader
In terms of actual Force ability
Vader>>>>>> Anakin
@steelhound56 said:
In terms of potential
Anakin>>>>>> Vader
In terms of actual Force ability
Vader>>>>>> Anakin
Although the fact that anakin is more agile and organic may make him superior to Vader as a swordsman?
Could go either way. Both have advantages over one another in some areas, and both are nearly identical to one another in all other areas.
@The_Thunderer said:
@steelhound56 said:
In terms of potential
Anakin>>>>>> Vader
In terms of actual Force ability
Vader>>>>>> Anakin
Although the fact that anakin is more agile and organic may make him superior to Vader as a swordsman?
Been argued by top-level star wars fans, I believe it was @JediXMan, but agility is not problem for Vader
@KnightRise: Indeed it has.
And you are correct. EU Vader is actually extremely agile. He hasn't had much trouble fighting fantastic Jedi swordsmen before. The fact that Anakin may be more agile is also moot, as Vader has beaten several opponents that are more agile than he is as well.
And he has the advantage of 20 years of exclusive tutoring by Sidious, something that Anakin doesn't have before he dons the suit
@Silver2467: Yup. But one thing also, Vader has advantages of knowledge and experience. For example, he might know how to channel his rage more effectively and such and such since reading Darth Malgus' journal. He also has more experience with Sith Relics and such, like the Muur Talisman, although Anakin has visited Korriban before, even though he nearly got tempted to join the Dark Side.
@steelhound56: Plus superior knowledge and experience. Vader isn't >>>>>>>>>> to Anakin in Force ability however.
@The_Thunderer: Vader is quite fast, and can still react to Anakin having fought more agile opponents as well.
Vader lost tons of potential when he lost most of his body, but the Anakin stated here hasn't reached that potential yet anyway. Vader's suit gives him enhanced strength and while he is constantly in great pain, all that does is fuel his connection to the darkside. Vader knows everything Anakin knows as well as a huge amount more and has a great deal of extra experience to boot.
I don't see Anakin winning this.
@Silver2467 said:
Could go either way. Both have advantages over one another in some areas, and both are nearly identical to one another in all other areas.
So would you say its a tie?
@Silver2467 said:
@mrdecepticonleader: I am saying a case could be made for either side. I see it as a perfect 5/10 split for both parties.
Uh huh.
@Silver2467 said:
Could go either way. Both have advantages over one another in some areas, and both are nearly identical to one another in all other areas.
Exactly and their the same person
@Sci_Fi_Rulez: True, but Vader has superior knowledge and experience. If we are referring to Anakin as of the end of EP 3, he still wasn't fully under control and was torn. Vader also has superior strength, and Anakin superior speed and agility.
@Silver2467 said:
@mrdecepticonleader: I am saying a case could be made for either side. I see it as a perfect 5/10 split for both parties.
Go ahead and make a case for Anakin. I don't see that he has any advantages that would make up for 20 years of darkside knowledge and personal tutoring from one of the most powerful force users of all time.
I'm open to ideas though.
@Baldy: Galen Marek isn't one of the most powerful......
Yoda, Mace, Sidious, Luke, Abeloth, Ones of Mortis, Satele Shan are more powerful. Darth Nihilus can drain him. I cannot say as to whether Exar Kun might beat him. Darth Traya also beats him due to drain.
@JigglyJiggletowns: I think the OP either meant, duplicates of exact same power and everything else, or who was more powerful.
@ShootingNova said:
@Baldy: Galen Marek isn't one of the most powerful......
Yoda, Mace, Sidious, Luke, Abeloth, Ones of Mortis, Satele Shan are more powerful. Darth Nihilus can drain him. I cannot say as to whether Exar Kun might beat him. Darth Traya also beats him due to drain.
I'm confused. I was referring to the fact that Vader was an apprentice of Sidious and the extra twenty or so years of darkside knowledge he would have gained from his master would be too big of an advantage for Anakin to overcome.
I never mentioned Marek.
@Baldy: Woops, my bad. I thought you said he tutored one of the most powerful Force-users when you said he was tutored by one of the most powerful Force-users. Which is correct.
In a contest of pure brute strength, it would be stalemate, in my opinion. Their strength feats are level.@Silver2467:
If it came down to them trying to wrestle each other even with the force boosting their strength as much as they could, who would come out on top?
Even better, what makes Vader different than Anakin other than just cybernetics? What advantages does Vader even have?
I presume this is Vader at the height of his power and skill, which would constitute RotJ Vader. Vader possesses greater knowledge, control, and versatility, while Anakin has superior speed, agility, and Force reserves. Vader is more hindered the in sense that his overall potential in the Force has been diminished, and because of this, Anakin can last in a protracted fight for a longer period of time than Vader can. During Anakin's duel with Dooku, Tyranus' Force reserves were reaching their limit while Anakin's energies were still in supply. An equivalent effect is possible here, supposing that the engagement of these two still continues until such a time. This is a notable advantage in Anakin's favor. Another is Vader's cybernetics. While these can be useful, they can also be a detriment. Vader's armor is extremely durable, enough to withstand explosions and tons of weight. But if vital portions of his life support are rendered inoperable, then he will be crippled. Of course, it is advantageous for Vader to be able to resist more pain and injury because of both his cybernetics and the Force (however, Anakin has enhanced durability as well; he handled being smashed through doors by Durge and survived rubble being dropped on him), but if Anakin strikes down any of Vader's crucial equipment in his system network, that lessens Vader's chances. It is also worth noting that Anakin has displayed what appears to be Technometry. He manipulated the functions of two B2 droids and had them fire at one another. You could argue this was simply Telekinesis, but given the fact that the droids outright targeted one another and shot afterward speaks of more precision with regards to their technological settings. In fairness, Anakin has only used this once to my knowledge; so there is no guarantee it will be attempted here. But were Anakin to harness this power against Vader, it could be a huge obstacle to the latter.@Silver2467 said:
@mrdecepticonleader: I am saying a case could be made for either side. I see it as a perfect 5/10 split for both parties.
Go ahead and make a case for Anakin. I don't see that he has any advantages that would make up for 20 years of darkside knowledge and personal tutoring from one of the most powerful force users of all time.
I'm open to ideas though.
Could go either way. Both have advantages over one another in some areas, and both are nearly identical to one another in all other areas.
@Silver2467:
Nice!
I have another question though. You said Vader has smaller reserves than Anakin. I would have thought having expanded his knowledge of the force would have increased not only the versatility of his abilities, but much like working out I assumed it would have also increased his strength and "stamina" with use of the force. Why is this not the case?
Either way, it would count as suicide. Wouldn't Vader just vanish from existence if he killed his past self?
Because Anakin has superior Force potential. When concerning applying the Force for various purposes, two factors have to be considered: 1) potential and 2) skill. Anakin has more of the former while Vader has more of the latter. Force potential is essentially how much capacity a character has for drawing on the Force. While they do need discipline to apply it consistently and competently, even an untrained Force sensitive can use the Force instinctively, though not with much control; training gives them control but not more potential. Let me illustrate it this way: If Vader were to live as long as Yoda and train in the Force for that whole time, he wouldn't continually become more powerful because he has a limit to his potential; he would grow in power until he reaches his upper limit and then stop. Whereas, if Anakin lived as long as Yoda and trained in the Force for that whole time, he would reach his limit too, but his limitations would be fewer than Vader's because his potential is more vast. Basically, a Force sensitive can increase their power and mastery with the Force, but they can't increase their potential with the Force. Anakin, despite only having a little more than a decade of training, has a titanic amount of energy he can call on from the Force, far more than what Vader has the ability to. Vader, however, is more trained with the Force, which allows him to direct it with improved efficiency and skill, but the amount of energies in his reserves are less than Anakin's due to his underlying potential being inferior.@Silver2467:
Nice!
I have another question though. You said Vader has smaller reserves than Anakin. I would have thought having expanded his knowledge of the force would have increased not only the versatility of his abilities, but much like working out I assumed it would have also increased his strength and "stamina" with use of the force. Why is this not the case?
@Silver2467: Nice.... but if this is Anakin by the end of ROTS he would still be not fully controlled and a bit torn.
@Silver2467: A duel with himself might make a difference. In any sense, Vader wins here in my opinion due to superior knowledge/experience, and possibly strength. Vader's taunts are also more likely a bad thing for him though.... Yeah, with those hindrances he still defeated Cin Drallig.
Anakin has no knowledge of Vader. Vader knows about him because Anakin is Vader's past. Anakin has never seen what he will turn out to be.@Silver2467: A duel with himself might make a difference.
I have still seen nothing that shows Vader possesses greater strength than Anakin.possibly strength
And like I said:@Silver2467: Like I said before, Ferus was supposed to surprise him with this bellyflop/body slam thing which rebounded off Vader's body and sent Ferus through a wall. Ferus has wrestled down a 120-kilo guy in prison and created force shields around him that made him impervious to most of the charge from the same 120-kilo dude and blaster bolts. He did knock over this stone door like thing but it was cracked and broken. When Vader grabbed Ferus in Secret Weapon, Ferus almost got knocked out instantly even when he tried to cushion the attack with the Force. Vader shattered part of a stone wall with a single punch and knocked down a pole that shattered the stairs when it came down by ramming into the pole.
@ShootingNova: I fail to see what makes that better than Anakin tearing apart spider droids with his hands, slamming his lightsaber on Ventress' with enough force to shatter stone beneath her, or throwing saber blows at Dooku with the power of a meteor strike.
And it therefore means nothing.he still saw that but can't remember it.
@Silver2467: Well, that's true, but I was pointing out that he did see the future once.
Rebounded, I don't mean TK, I mean the blow glanced off his body.
Anakin tearing apart spider droids with his hands
Well, that's about the same as Vader breaking poles/doors/walls in the Jedi Temple. Like, after he supported the two poles while telekinetically lifting another, he threw the poles so hard they smashed walls and doors from either side of the temple while still taking care of the pole on top, and then he threw it down hard enough to make a mini-earthquake that knocked Ferus to the floor. But the last feat was TK.
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