Darth Sidious vs The Avengers

Darth Sidious has 1 month to prep. Win via Death. The Avengers have 1 week to prep. The fight takes place in Outer Space.

Can we use EU/Legends Sidious?

@dccomicsrule2011 @shootingnova

Hopefully I got the tags correctly...

Avengers is going down hard here, not much they can do in this battle.

If EU/Legend Sidious then yeah they get stomped here.

Not with Thor they don't. Everyone else, yeah, but Thor beats any version of Sidious, even the absolute strongest interpretations of EU Sidious.

I'm not sure Sidious could stop Thor's hammer and I have to believe that one shot from either the hammer or Hulk would mean instant death for the old man.

I honestly don't know Thor's feats in this cartoon version but does he have TP resistance on the magnitude that he could fight off a telepath strong enough to control 20 billion people simultaneously with little effort. Can he resist a drain technique that can also drain an entire planet of its life force survive hyperspace wormholes that have rippled fleets apart. An opponent who can move at near relativistic speeds. I can keep listing feats but if the Thor in this cartoon is that powerful. By Odin I must watch this show at once!

This is just stylized artwork, not from any show. Ergo, I'm assuming he means regular comics Thor.

Oh nice artwork. :P He could also mean the movie versions as the characters in the picture are all from the movies. Regardless can comic Thor resistany of the things I stated above?

Comic Thor is above-light speed, has dealt with the energy manipulation from SS, has taken WAY worse than any of Sidious' attacks that are intended to damage the body, and while all Asgardians are resistant to TP, Thor is moreso, and has fought off TP from Loki. And the 20 billion minds thing is really confusing. It proves amazing range, but not necessarily amazing potency. It's entirely possible he could control 20 billion people, but couldn't control 1 person who had 2x the resitance of any one of those 20 billion.

Regardless, even you do take that as counting for potency as well as range, I think that Thor's feats of TP defense is enough to fight off Sidious.

And regardless, none of it matters, as he is SOOOO much faster than Sidious and his godblasts would turn Sidious to mulch.

@theirishdoctor: Wow I didn't know Thor was so fast in any fight I've seen Thor in they always go after his speed and say he's slow. Also I didn't know he had such high TP resistance. I also didn't know he's survived the force of a hyperspace worm hole. He truly is a tough cookie. This is all awesome and I completely agree with you that Thor wins now.

As long as you provide scans of course of Thor surviving blows that have the power of a hyperspace wormhole TP on the level of Sidious manipulating 20 billion and travelling faster then light with Mjolnir. I'll be waiting.

I know Sidious is strong, but couldn't Thor solo? I might be missing something here though.

I honestly don't know much about Thor I DO know a lot about Sidious so if you can counter some of the Sidious feats above then I can concede.

@beaconofstrength: I think he can, one throw of the old hammer and Sidious is dead. No chance he can move fast enough to evade it, I'm not sure he can even think that fast can he?

He can move near light speed. *Shrug* I don't how fast Mjolnir can go or if Thor can respond fast enough before Sidious speed blitz's him.

oh lawrd

@beaconofstrength: *Grimace* I don't use scans ( lack of knowledge on how ) but in the ROTS novelization Anakin a person who has reacted to fighters who were going faster then light couldn't even see Sidious in his fight with Windu.

@syndicate: Fighters are not FTL. The fact it takes them several seconds to even cross a ship only 12000m long proves this. Nvm that Sid isn't moving anything close to lightspeed. At best he has an ambiguous lightspeed reaction feet that I've yet to actually see provided.

Thor has thrown Mjolnir at millions of times lightspeed. Thor has FTL speed and reflexes, even in early incarnations. Back when he would still become mortal if apart from Mjolnir for 60sec he tried to kill himself by hurling it to the end of the galaxy almost instantly.

Seriously, this is a complete waste of time. Hulk wins cause there's nothing Sid can do to him. And only the SW fans will cry "Stalemate! They can't kill his spirit!" as if it ever even mattered. He can't possess anyone he wants after he's dead so it's pointless to even bring it up.

This is ridiculously out of hand! Taking on the Avengers with Thor & Hulk on the team? How is this fair and not one sided??

Sidous wins via Telepathy.

@laflux: Thor is resistant and Hulk is immune. So, nope. One hit from either of these two and Sid is a smear.

Hulks not immune, he's resistant. And Thor's feats for resistance are all over the place........

Also what defense does any of the team have to essence transfer? He has a months prep, and exhibited mental dominance over people with resistance from light years away. There is no need for him to even engage in H2H combat......

I don't even know what to say in response?? Since when has Sidious controlled anyone TP wise during a battle? Let a lone a battle of multiple powerfull beings, two of them being very heavy hitters, and resistant to tp, which Sidious doesn't even actually use, I believe it's the force, and works on simple minded beings? Does Sidious actually have tp? or is it still the force he uses to control other people? I could be wrong?

Too many Avenger s aka targets. Thor and Hulk could do it solo. You still got a billionaire genius shooting from the sky. Along w/ Hawkeye and his shots. Cap and Widow possibly the first down, possibly...

Earth gets Alderaan'd

@assman:

The Emperor is explained as influencing the minds and wills of the populace of Byss, which reached nearly twenty billion through the dark side into submission to his rule, rendering them mindless and maintained this control for decades even when he left the planet.
http://web.archive.org/web/20100226123647/http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/sw20050414planet1

Almost mindless under the oppression of the Emperor's dark side influence, the people of Byss find their life energies constantly leeched off during the Emperor's vile machinations.

Throughout the worlds submissive to the Empire, Byss is renowned as a paradise, whose siren call multitudes to willingly apply for emigration to its shores. Once there, wrapped in the power of the dark side, the immigrants become completely submissive, their life energy forever enslaved to the mind that would devour a galaxy.

--Taken from the Dark Empire endnotes

Credit goes to Silver and his respect thread for the quote.

Battle takes place "In Space" according to the OP. I'm presuming therefore that it takes place on the biggest Star Destroyer or something of the like. Blowing up Earth is pointless. The whole thing is pointless. Thor would fly into the vacuum of space and then use Mjolnir to obliterate whatever ship Sidious was on.

On a planet somewhere, Sidious has slightly better odds, because he's not sitting on an easily destroyable spaceship, but even then Thor just flies a thousand miles in the aid and tosses Mjolnir straight down with enough force to destroy the planet.

The battle begins with Hawkeye trying to shoot Sideous.... which he finds laughable. After sending the arrow at Cap (which Cap deflects with the shield. Sideous simply picks up Hawkeye using the force, snaps his neck, and hurls his body at the Widow.... who overcome with emotion at seeing her former partner dispatched with such ease doesn't move in time. The force of getting hit by Hawkeye takes her out. She's not dead.... but she's out. Very quickly Sideous then take's control of Iron Man's armor through tk.... and adjust's Iron Man's aim (who coincidentally was powering up his weapons and aiming at the Emperor) to target Cap in the back. To Stark's horror he blasts Captain America clear in the back... sending him sprawling.... who knows if he's dead, but he's definitely down for the count. Sideous then quickly closes his hand in a crushing movement and Stark's armor becomes his grave, crushing him as if he was garbage in a compactor. Iron Man falls from the sky obviously dead. Chuckling Sideous then turns to face an enraged Hulk and a horrified Thor..... Hulks just about to hit him but stops mid punch, fist inches from Palpatines smiling face. You see.... if there's one thing Palpatine knows, it's rage and anger. He senses so much in the Hulk there's almost a kinship. He quickly relates to the Hulk, talking to him mentally, convincing him that Thor is his real enemy, all the while amping Hulks anger. (All of this happens Very quickly btw..... Sideous is like that.... he's a good multi-tasker) Sideous then stands in the shadows laughing his maniacal laugh as he watches Thor and the Hulk pound each other. Thor takes the bigger beating as, at first he's not willing to go full out on a team-mate. After taking quite a bit of damage however, Thor finally goes all out and manages to drop the Hulk.... unfortunately for Thor... he's used so much energy and has been so concentrated on fighting the Hulk, that he never quite comprehends that the "snap-hiss" sound he just heard was a lightsaber powering up... and before he even remembers Palpatines there.... he's dead. Sideous for the win. Flawless Victory.

Fun fanfic dude.

@theirishdoctor: Thank you. I figure, if your going to write up an opinion on who wins in these battles, may's as well make a story of it. To my mind, if Sideous was to win (and who knows, maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't) he'd probably win in a manner very similar to what I described. He is supposed to be that mean, evil, and powerful.

So Thor's gonna stand there while Palpatine convinces the Hulk to join him? Thor is a warrior born, he's not gonna stand around shocked….he's going to respond and I don't see even the Hulk stopping him from tearing Palpatine in half.

A month of prep? He could raise an entire solar system as an army just through his sheer will, assuming we're ignoring the fact that he could control most, if not all of the team themselves simultaneously. Loki's manipulation is nothing compared to Sidious. But even without that, he could easily raise most of the universe as an army in that time. Sidious lackadaisically summoned a force storm that destroyed multiple fleets and decimated worlds He also manipulated the memory of an entire planet, Strong-willed beings and Jedi Masters among them. If they strike quickly, The Avengers could crush his skull in seconds, but with any warning, yet alone a month to prepare for a specific group, I don't think they'd win, they'd put up a fight, but Sidious takes this.

@bones309: You have to understand, all of this doesn't exactly take place in real-time. As I said, Palpatine's an excellent multi-tasker. With the Hulk being as angry as he is, all Palpatine really has to do is get in his head and relate.... considering all the anger and rage involved in the Hulk (That is after all the basis of his power) it shouldn't be difficult for someone so strong and so manipulative as Sideous is to get in his head. After all, one of the Hulks few weaknesses is that he can be mind-screwed. Something the Emperor does, and does VERY well. I see no reason why, in the context of all this happening very quickly, why Sideous can't just convince the Hulk that Thor is the real enemy. As for why Thor didn't automatically go god-blast.... he's worried about hurting his friends. Also, Thor likes to be respectable, he doesn't do cheap-shots very often and like's straight up, honorable style battles. That alone would be reason enough for him to hold back the few seconds it would take for Palpatine to not only take out the rest of the team, but also turn Hulk against him.

Mind games are not one of Hulk's weaknesses. On the contrary, he's the most TP resistant guy here. Plenty of people have tried to control him several times and it doesn't work (although they tend to remove that in the cartoons and whatnot, so a lot of people forget that element of Hulk)

@theirishdoctor: Yeah, but this isn't your typical guy. This isn't Palpatine 'controlling' the Hulk. This is Palpatine "convincing" the Hulk. Everything the Hulk does would be of his own accord.... he just would have been prodded by Palpatine, who in his usual Insidious fashion.... get's the Hulk to rage out on his own. Remember, Rage and Anger are dark-side emotions.... things Palpatine would feed on.... things he'd perpetuate. The Hulk being so full of anger and rage.... all Palpatine really has to do is get the Hulk to feel some kinship, and the Emperor is definitely full of anger and rage. Shoot, maybe Palpatine doesn't even have to talk, just open up his own emotions to the Hulk.... the Hulk feels some sort of brotherhood, Thor tries to kill him.... the Hulk doesn't want Palpatine to die, so he fights Thor. Something along those lines is right out of the Darth Sideous 'playbook'/

Thor solos

Yeah that...that wouldn't work. That doesn't even make sense. Hulk wouldn't feel kinship just because someone else had anger and rage like him. He'd retaliate the instant he felt anyone trying to get into his mind. The BEST that Sidious could do would be to get Hulk to go on a rampage, attacking everyone and everything, including Sidious. Either way it doesn't matter because with 1 week of prep, the team would know that allowing Sidious to do anything would risk the lives of the team, so Thor would just speed-blitz him before he was even able to think. Seriously, Mjolnir can go so fast that it makes lightspeed look like a child's play thing. Sidious wouldn't have time to get into Hawkeye's mind (probably the easiest of the bunch), let alone Hulk's. Thor can attack literally thousands of times faster than Sidious can even attempt to react.

Hulk smashes Sidious.

"Puny Sith".

I really don't want to comment on this thread, so I'll refrain from posting.

@laflux: Hulk is effectively immune. ET only works with Physical Contact or a prior Force-Bond for him to connect with that person. Both variations can be resisted by others, as Zannah proved when she defeated Bane's attempt at transferring to her body, and even one of Sid's own Imperial Guardsman refused to allow the old codger to possess his body after Luke killed him a 2nd time.

You also forget it took Sid years to do any of this. And he wasn't actively TP'ing people over distances. What he did with Byss was little more than setting up a radio tower to broadcast the same message over and over again. It never required him to be there once it was setup. It was no different than Revan creating Darkside Nexi across the galaxy to be used to manipulate others and make them more susceptible to his influence.

A month of prep for Sid is utterly meaningless. He's not a genius. He's not capable of creating a machine that could do anything to this team. His only notable talents come from manipulating others, which is useless here. Tony is smarter than Sid will ever be and can make devices to ward off the TP.

Regardless, it's already a moot point. Hulk or Thor by themselves would annihilate Sid. There's no getting around that fact.

I really wish this fight, for once, would just be debated objectively so we can come to a conclusion on it. People's assessments on this fight are frankly all over the place.

Sidious uses that one month of prep to steal Gungnir and stomps them.

@i_like_swords: Well... it does seem to be down to Thor and the Hulk vs. Palpatine, so it is at least whittled down to that. For me the question is, can Palpatine manipulate either? I personally think he should be able to manipulate the Hulk, after all.... far less powerful people than him have done so with ease.. and Palpatine's a master manipulator. If he can.... than he's got some kind of defense against Thor. I can honestly see the Emperor beating Hulk in a straight up fight.... BFR is the quickest way.... just use TK and shoot the Hulk into space.... it's not like he flies. However, Thor's a different animal entirely. I don't think he can be manipulated as easily or quickly, and he flies.... fast. Really this battle seems to come down to.... can Thor and Hulk beat him.... which they can, I mean honestly either can one shot. The thing is, Palpatine's crafty as all get out so a good argument could be had for him as well. It's actually a pretty good battle.

Hulk isnt gonna do anything to Sidious. Thor is the only factor on the Avenger's team, and he gets the job done.

Thor solos, Hulk solos, Iron Man could potentially win. Mismatch.

@106me: Thor is the only one that could solo.

None of the others can protect themselves from Sidious TK, Speed, TP or Wormholes.

@schillenger420: I don't know how Sidious can deal with Thor but realistically it could just end in a stalemate. Thor doesn't have the speed required to even see Sidious. I mean I dunno... I guess Thor wins eventually.

I agree with you on everything else, though.

...nah