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#51 Posted by JediXMan (30193 posts) - - Show Bio

No morals at all? Superman can hear Palaptine plotting and planning from a solar system length away and would just laser eyes him from the same distance....20 hours of prep = Palpatine has no chance.

1. Opponents cannot interfere during prep.

2. Even if he could do that, all that would happen is that Palpatine would use Essence Transfer again. Superman has no way of keeping him down.

Moderator
#52 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (23805 posts) - - Show Bio

@djangophile:

Superman can hear Palaptine plotting and planning from a solar system length away

Hmm that's interesting show me Superman doing this? Regardless they can't interfere with each other during prep any way so it's a moot point.

and would just laser eyes him from the same distance

lol show me Superman heat vision working a solar system away, anyway it's not like it matter Palpatine would just possess him. Despite what @lvenger claimed the Essence transfer is not conventional possession as I pointed out already it is a battle of 2 wills which Palpatine would no doubt stomp him in since he has been able to come back from the Void via pure will power alone. Not to mention Superman has no way of banishing his Sith essence at all (which lvenger never even addressed in the thread)

#53 Edited by xlab3000 (3185 posts) - - Show Bio
#54 Edited by Lvenger (19084 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

@lvenger said:

@jedixman said:

@lvenger said:

@jedixman: I was referring to Pre Flashpoint Superman, not New 52. If it was the New 52 version fighting Palpatine, Superman has no defense against Palpatine's TP or possession.

Unless otherwise specified, it's the current version. Therefore, it would be New 52 Superman. So in the context of this thread, Palpatine is the clear victor.

Either way he is the clear victor. The TC states that Palpatine has prep - the most powerful Sith Lord in Star Wars canon gets prep, with the knowledge of almost every single Force technique in existence, including the ability to manipulate souls.

There's also the argument that the Force is a type of magic in its own right, especially powers of the Dark Side (words such as "alchemy," "Sith magic," "sorcery," and the like are common in Star Wars. Palpatine has knowledge of Sith Sorcery, which is a specific sect of the abilities. He is a master of Sorcery).

Yes he'd win with prep against pre Flashpoint Superman too. That much is clear. But seriously, you're making the sorcery argument? That's something of which you have no proof of whatsoever. The Force has never shown any specific mystical properties and I've never seen Palaptine use 'Sith Sorcery' in combat. You can't come out and make that claim with little to back that up.

I wasn't using it as the basis for my argument, but he can use it. Essence Transfer falls under Sorcery, and yes, he can use it - which gives more to back up the idea that Superman would have no defense against it. If memory serves, so does his ability to rip the soul out of his victims - difficult to use against another Force user, but he wouldn't have a reason not to use it here.

I wasn't bringing it up as an argument; I was just saying that it can be used. We both know Palpatine wins here regardless.

There's a Pre Flashpoint defense I can make against your claim but that doesn't apply here. I still disagree that the essence transfer falls under any kind of sorcery when application of such powers seem to fall under manipulation of the world around them rather than tapping into any specific mystical energy.

#55 Posted by JediXMan (30193 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

There's a Pre Flashpoint defense I can make against your claim but that doesn't apply here. I still disagree that the essence transfer falls under any kind of sorcery when application of such powers seem to fall under manipulation of the world around them rather than tapping into any specific mystical energy.

Essence Transfer falls under Sith Sorcery, if memory serves. I would have to double check, but I've loaned out some of my source books. If it does officially fall under Sorcery, then it is a non-debatable fact.

If we're taking about mystic energy, all Force Powers require that. They have to utilize energy outside themselves; it's not simply internal. This is how Sever Force works: the user surrounds the victim in a wall of light energy, cutting them off from their external power source. The Force requires both internal and external energy. So if this is the requirement for magic, the Force fits the description.

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#56 Posted by Lvenger (19084 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

@lvenger said:

There's a Pre Flashpoint defense I can make against your claim but that doesn't apply here. I still disagree that the essence transfer falls under any kind of sorcery when application of such powers seem to fall under manipulation of the world around them rather than tapping into any specific mystical energy.

Essence Transfer falls under Sith Sorcery, if memory serves. I would have to double check, but I've loaned out some of my source books. If it does officially fall under Sorcery, then it is a non-debatable fact.

If we're taking about mystic energy, all Force Powers require that. They have to utilize energy outside themselves; it's not simply internal. This is how Sever Force works: the user surrounds the victim in a wall of light energy, cutting them off from their external power source. The Force requires both internal and external energy. So if this is the requirement for magic, the Force fits the description.

I've checked some wikis and it does. And whilst Pre Flashpoint Superman has defenses against that, New 52 Superman does not. But I don't follow your logic that all Force Powers are magical in nature. You can just as well make that case for many other kind of powers too I'm afraid. So whilst there may be a kind of 'sorcery' aspect to the Force, I still hold that the Force in general is not a wholly mystical power source that can specifically harm Superman.

#57 Posted by JediXMan (30193 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

I've checked some wikis and it does. And whilst Pre Flashpoint Superman has defenses against that, New 52 Superman does not. But I don't follow your logic that all Force Powers are magical in nature. You can just as well make that case for many other kind of powers too I'm afraid. So whilst there may be a kind of 'sorcery' aspect to the Force, I still hold that the Force in general is not a wholly mystical power source that can specifically harm Superman.

I did not say that the Force itself was magical. I said that the argument could be made. My primary argument is that Sorcery and some of the more arcane aspects of the Force are closer to magic.

I'm not debating it for the sake of the Superman vs Palpatine debate, but the Force does involve spirits, the afterlife (good and evil), external energy, life force energy, nature, and many other aspects that are shared with magic. I don't see why it should be treated differently. Again: I'm treating this as a separate discussion from the Superman debate.

Moderator
#58 Posted by Lvenger (19084 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

@lvenger said:

I've checked some wikis and it does. And whilst Pre Flashpoint Superman has defenses against that, New 52 Superman does not. But I don't follow your logic that all Force Powers are magical in nature. You can just as well make that case for many other kind of powers too I'm afraid. So whilst there may be a kind of 'sorcery' aspect to the Force, I still hold that the Force in general is not a wholly mystical power source that can specifically harm Superman.

I did not say that the Force itself was magical. I said that the argument could be made. My primary argument is that Sorcery and some of the more arcane aspects of the Force are closer to magic.

I'm not debating it for the sake of the Superman vs Palpatine debate, but the Force does involve spirits, the afterlife (good and evil), external energy, life force energy, nature, and many other aspects that are shared with magic. I don't see why it should be treated differently. Again: I'm treating this as a separate discussion from the Superman debate.

Fine, we're getting off topic from the actual debate at hand anyway. It's actually quite silly for me to question you because next to Silver, you're the best Star Wars expert on the site so I'll take your word for it.

#59 Edited by leonkarlen123 (4262 posts) - - Show Bio
#60 Posted by Faymousinus (1254 posts) - - Show Bio
#61 Posted by Jacthripper (2446 posts) - - Show Bio

@djangophile:

No he can't because sound doesn't travel through a vacuum. And sidious isn't one to talk about his plans out loud unless he is at his moment of victory.

Palpatine ftw

#62 Posted by Jokerpoker (2946 posts) - - Show Bio

With 20 hrs prep Sidious no doubt wins.

#63 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (23805 posts) - - Show Bio

Palpatine stomps.

#64 Posted by Heinrich7 (176 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah Supes can blitz him but it's pointless because as stated before dying isn't much to Palpatine.

Superman has resisted possession in the past though, I think the only way Kal is going to win is if He calls up MM or other Psychics and Wizards to help him. MM would be able to tell who Palpatine possessed.This is of course is pertaining that others would be involved in the fight through possession. I think it'd be fair to give Clark some time during the next possession.

#65 Edited by Redskull490 (448 posts) - - Show Bio

Darth Sidious wins.

#66 Posted by Nalaniel (14 posts) - - Show Bio

Darth Sidious wins and gets a younger body.

#67 Edited by Lvenger (19084 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

Palpatine stomps.

Our debate showed otherwise remember? At least in a random encounter with both combatants going all out ;)

#68 Posted by leonkarlen123 (4262 posts) - - Show Bio

@jokerpoker: What would Sidious do with that prep? sit in a corner and cry for the waiting of death?

#69 Posted by leonkarlen123 (4262 posts) - - Show Bio
#70 Posted by Jokerpoker (2946 posts) - - Show Bio
#71 Edited by leonkarlen123 (4262 posts) - - Show Bio

@jokerpoker: Isn't his main thing his lightsaber and Force lightning? (Supes has tanked lightning from SHAZAM so it wont be a problem)

#72 Edited by Jokerpoker (2946 posts) - - Show Bio

@leonkarlen123: here are some of his powers:

Animation

Blast Power

Cosmic Awareness

Danger Sense

Electricity Control

Energy Absorption

Energy Manipulation

Force Field

Hypnosis

Immortal

Insanely Rich

Intellect

Invisibility

Leadership

Levitation

Magic

Magnetism

Mesmerize

Necromancy

Possession

Precognition

Psionic

Psychic

Siphon Lifeforce

Soul Absorption

Stamina

Super Speed

Super Strength

Swordsmanship

Telekinesis

Telepathy

Teleport

Time Travel

Tracking

#73 Posted by leonkarlen123 (4262 posts) - - Show Bio

@jokerpoker: Yea i forgot about the most. Haven't read SW in maybe 5 years, i can see he absorbs energy from Kryptonite and he stomps and his speed doesn't come close to Supes neither strength

#74 Edited by Jokerpoker (2946 posts) - - Show Bio
#75 Posted by Faymousinus (1254 posts) - - Show Bio

@heinrich7: Blitz him? Its a long time since ive read some Superman comics but can Supes move at relativistic speeds?

#76 Edited by Faymousinus (1254 posts) - - Show Bio

@jokerpoker: Im pretty sure he has more powers than that.

Alchaka

Art of Movement

Breath Control

Detoxify Poison

Flashburn

Force Body

Force Comprehension

Force Concealment

Force Enlightenment

Force Ghost

Force Healing

Force speed

Hibernation Trance

Morichro

Tapas

Force Listening

Force Meld

Force Seeing

Force Sense

Precognition

Battle Precognition

Shatterpoint

Psychometry

Force Empathy

Farseeing

Force Vision

Telepathy

Comprehend Speech

Alter Damage

Alter Image

Alter Environment

Animal Friendship

Battle Meditation

Combustion

Crucitorn

Dark Transfer

Deadly Sight

Dopplegänger

Drain Knowledge

Droid Disable

Electric Judgment

Force Bellow

Force Blinding

Force Cloak

Force Confusion

Force Defend

Force Deflection

Force Destruction

Force drain

Force Fear

Force Horror

Force Insanity

Force Flash

Force Flight

Force Illusion

Force Jump/Leap

Force Light

Force Lightning

Chain Lightning

Shock

Force Storm (lightning)

Wall of Light

Force Orb

Force Persuasion

Force Projection

Force Pull/ Push

Force Scream

Force Stun

Force Stasis

Force Stasis Field

Force Slow

Force Affliction

Force Plague

Force Storm (wormhole)

Force Subjugate

Force Suppression

Force Breach

Force Throw

Force Travel

Force Wave

Force Repulse

Force Weapon

Force Whirlwind

Force Whisper

Pyrokinesis

Force Wound

Force Choke

Force Grip

Force Crush

Kinetite

Levitation

Malacia

Mechu-deru

Midichlorian Manipulation

Mind Control

Mind Trick

Protection Bubble

Plant Surge

Ray

Revitalize

Sever Force

Sith Alchemy

Spear of Midnight Black

Spirit Transference

Telekinesis

Got this from Silver2467

#77 Edited by Heinrich7 (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@faymousinus: Kryptonians can move several times FTL. Infact Clark doesn't even go regular light speed because it'd damage the planet.

Superman can precieve things on a nanosecond basis. Read an entire library in minutes. And is able to see at an atomic scale and see the electromagnetic sphere.

Palpatine's saving grace is His possessing abilities. One body alone He gets his brains flung out by one tap on the forehead before the Neurons in his brain even fire off.

Though without the force Clark can't really kill Him.

#78 Posted by nicksmi56 (151 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank you thread for reminding me why I hate the EU so much

#79 Posted by Jokerpoker (2946 posts) - - Show Bio
#80 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (23805 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

Palpatine stomps.

Our debate showed otherwise remember? At least in a random encounter with both combatants going all out ;)

Meh.

Even though I lost, in votes, I still stand firm that Palpatine would defeat Superman.

@nicksmi56 said:

Thank you thread for reminding me why I hate the EU so much

You say this because.....?

#81 Posted by nicksmi56 (151 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: Because from what I can tell the EU turned every Force user into Jesus and made a laundry list of bad decisions with the characters

#82 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (23805 posts) - - Show Bio

@nicksmi56 said:

@dccomicsrule2011: Because from what I can tell the EU turned every Force user into Jesus and made a laundry list of bad decisions with the characters

The point of me posting "You say this because.....?" was because I wanted to know what this had to do what the thread at hand - I couldn't care less what you think of the EU, with that grossly nonessential generalization of yours to boot.

#83 Edited by nicksmi56 (151 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: Because EVERY post in this thread is 100% on topic with the battle. Also I'd say Supes stomps if Palpatine isn't in EU God Mode

#84 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (23805 posts) - - Show Bio

@nicksmi56:

Because EVERY post in this thread is 100% on topic with the battle

Ummm...... That's the point of this thread? O__o

This thread was created for people to discuss the outcome of Superman vs Palpatine - not to bash the EU with nonessential generalizations.

#85 Edited by ShootingNova (16112 posts) - - Show Bio

Sidious - because Superman can't permanently kill him. This is why Essence Transfer is horrible for battles. Superman has no way of affecting Palpatine's essence while Sidious could just Wormhole or TP Superman and rip him a new one.

There's so much complaining about the EU every time Palpatine/Luke are brought up. Seriously, that's irrelevant to this thread and it's unnecessary. You can debate that nonsense elsewhere.

#86 Posted by nicksmi56 (151 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: Oh please. I've seen battle threads where people literally pop in and say "What is....I don't even." I gave you an answer and I'm really not in the best mood. Go bother them. Yes I think EU is crap. Deal

#87 Posted by ShootingNova (16112 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, if this is N52 Superman, then it's a terrible stomp for Sidious. Superman has no answer for his TP or Essence Transfer or Force Storm at all, and will never be able to kill him.

@dccomicsrule2011: You don't need to entertain him any longer, or the thread will become more and more off-topic.

#88 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (23805 posts) - - Show Bio

@nicksmi56:

Oh please. I've seen battle threads where people literally pop in and say "What is....I don't even."

Most of the time those threads have literally zero discussion battles whatsoever, mainly because they are either stomp threads or spite ones.

I gave you an answer and I'm really not in the best mood.

I think you are confusing what I'm even talking about.

I replied to you because you came in this thread and posted nonessential generalization which really had zero to do with the topic at hand.

Go bother them.

Go bother who?

Yes I think EU is crap. Deal

I care because.....?

Sidious - because Superman can't permanently kill him. This is why Essence Transfer is horrible for battles. Superman has no way of affecting Palpatine's essence while Sidious could just Wormhole or TP Superman and rip him a new one.

There's so much complaining about the EU every time Palpatine/Luke are brought up. Seriously, that's irrelevant to this thread and it's unnecessary. You can debate that nonsense elsewhere.

I agree with this post 100%

#89 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

Pfft at this thread.

#90 Posted by ShootingNova (16112 posts) - - Show Bio

All these unnecessary comments need to stop. They aren't contributing anything to the thread.

#91 Posted by nicksmi56 (151 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: Actually I think he's the one dragging it off topic. I just said my piece and left. He's the one starting an argument.

@dccomicsrule2011:

Check out the newest comment. I rest my case

#92 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (23805 posts) - - Show Bio
#93 Posted by ShootingNova (16112 posts) - - Show Bio

@nicksmi56: It doesn't matter who is dragging it off-topic. The discussion is irrelevant, contributes nothing to the thread, and needs to stop.

This sort of rubbish goes in the General Discussion or Off-topic section.

#94 Posted by Faymousinus (1254 posts) - - Show Bio

Sidious - because Superman can't permanently kill him. This is why Essence Transfer is horrible for battles. Superman has no way of affecting Palpatine's essence while Sidious could just Wormhole or TP Superman and rip him a new one.

True

#95 Posted by Nalaniel (14 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: Yes, this is unnecessary, but there's nothing do discuss in this thread. ^^

#97 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (23805 posts) - - Show Bio

@jammen:

I would love for your to enlighten me on how Superman stomps this one.

#99 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (23805 posts) - - Show Bio

@jammen: So you have nothing but nonsensical nonsense - and a rather funny sense of self-importance?

Alrighty then.