Darth Sidious vs. Plagueis, Anakin, Dooku, Yoda

Darth Sidious

vs.

Darth Plagueis, Anakin Skywalker, Count Dooku, and Yoda.

Bloodlust on, morals off, no prep, all of them are at their strongest versions.

Other Rules: Sidious can't be resurrected (So if he dies....he dies), no life drain, and force storm.

Battle takes place at the Jedi Temple

@shootingnova@jedixman@jaken7@whirlwind_33@i_like_swords@shroudofsorrow

Is the team strong enough!?

@ssjdarthplagueis: Too strong honestly. Take out Yoda and you've got an interesting match-up. With Yoda, the other 3 are beyond overkill. Yoda by himself was able to stalemate Sidious.

@jaken7: Agreed

@jaken7: Yoda "lost". Yoda stalemated him for some time in dueling but gets trumped in every other category. And in Dark Empire Paplatine got way stronger.

Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

--Taken from The New Essential Chronology

"In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force. Finally, he saw the truth.

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...

just—

didn't—

have it."

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith Novelization

@whirlwind_33: So you think this is an even fight then? Or are you just being argumentative?

Anakin and Dooku are non-factors here and will be speed-blitzed accordingly. With that out of the way, Yoda and Plagueis together MIGHT have a shot, but it's hard to say. Palpatine still trumps them in the Force for my money, but could at least be overwhelmed in a saber duel.

Leaning towards Sidious for right now, but I could be convinced to give a few wins to Yoda and Plagueis. Really they're in need of some better partners, though in fairness Palpatine doesn't have too many equals in the mythos.

@jaken7 Team wins by a slim Margin because Plagueis and Yoda are the only ones who pose the real threats and together they possibly stalemate or lose by a slim margin. With Yoda, Plagueis + Dooku and Anakin that ensures a possible win. Without Yoda to balance out the skill and speed disparity. Palpatine blitzes Anakin and Dooku before they can react, and eventually takes out Plagueis with effort.

@whirlwind_33: I guess. I still think team is powerful enough to pull the win. I guess instead of taking Yoda out, he could take Anakin and Dooku out, seeing as how they make marginal differences anyways.

@jaken7: He may as well take them out. They won't make any kind of difference here actually. Palpatine will just speed-blitz both of them.

@shroudofsorrow: You don't think the presence of Yoda and Plagueis would deter Sidious from speedblitzing the others? You don't think Plagueis and Yoda would protect the others?

I still think Anakin and Dooku should be taken out though.

@jaken7 I agree. Yoda is the only person who can keep up with Palpatine's speed enough to intercept/distract him it while giving the Plagueis(since he rivals Yoda's force power) enough time to utilize and excess of Force powers along with Anakin and Dooku for the win. Plagueis and Yoda both lose individually in a Force battle against Palpatine. Together ehhh they might stalemate but they lose by slim Margin(with Force Storm and Essence being banned) with Anakin+Dooku Team should take the majority of the wins. So team needs them.

@shroudofsorrow You don't think Yoda or Plag could intercept his speed long enough for them to combine a Force powered assault? Plagueis and Yoda rival each other in the Force and both of them are just under Palpatine. So it's not like he stomps both of them. Plus given his knowledge his familiarity with Yoda and Plag and their familiarity with him. Palpatine would be at odds with them first.

@whirlwind_33: Yeah, I'm with you here. Yoda and Plagueis aren't gonna just sit there with their thumbs up their butts while Sidious wrecks Dooku and Anakin. The more we've discussed it, the more I think this match-up is perfect. I think you're right that Anakin and Dooku's aid gives the slightest marginal advantage, and pushes the team over the line of victory.

@jaken7 Agreed

@whirlwind_33: Last I checked, if you stalemate someone, you don't defeat them, you fight them to something of a draw

@whirlwind_33: I did say Yoda and Plagueis might be able to do it. And your argument gives credence to that stance. So yes, they could beat him together. But Anakin and Dooku won't be worth much here. Honestly Plagueis and Yoda Vs. Sidious would have been a perfectly fine battle. No reason to throw in dead weight.

@jaken7: Considering Palpatine speed-blitzed Agen Kolar and Saesee Tiin before Mace or Kit could do a thing to help either of them, yes I do think that Palpatine will just speed-blitz Anakin and Dooku and that they will be non-factors. Kit Fisto didn't exactly last long either. Neither will Dooku or Anakin.

@shroudofsorrow: That's a weak comparison. That scene was lame, and they weren't expecting him to draw a lightsaber and attack. It had less to do with Speedblitz and more to do with being caught off guard. Windu and Fisto are not Plagueis and Yoda. Besides, Windu and Fisto only acted once they realized what was happening. Not to mention the quarters were extremely close. It happened in the doorway of an office. I'd hardly call that comparable to this fight. Besides those two Jedi that were killed were nowhere near Anakin and Dooku's level.

Yoda and Plagueis would stalemate Sidious in a saber duel, and Sidious force powers is a little bit more stronger than the two of them. But together they probably could take down Sidious, but I wasn't sure. Which is why I threw in Anakin and Dooku in to increase the odds.

@shroudofsorrow: Dooku is arguably more powerful than Agen, Saesee, and Kit combined. His lightsabre skills are said to be on par with Yoda and Mace. Anakin manages to defeat him in their battle. I don't think either Anakin or Dooku is deadweight. They just make it a stomp because Yoda and Plaguis by themselves would be very hard for Sidious to deal with. Adding Dooku and Anakin would be too much.

In fact, judging by how Yoda alone performs against Sidious. Yoda and Plagueis would likely be enough to stomp. Palpatine only becomes Wankatine in the Dark Empire series. Pre-Dark Empire, Yoda and Plagueis would be more than a match for Sidious

Anakin and Dooku are most certainly not non-factors. Dooku held off Yoda for a while, who in turn fought Sidious for quite a while even if in the end he just wasn't strong enough. That alone should mean that Dooku should be able to fight Sidious for at least a little while before he goes down. And Anakin beat Dooku, even if it was on account of a form advantage.

None of these characters are worthless, and all together, they should beat Sidious.

Emperor. He's far too fast and too powerful for the team.

Waiting for Nova and JediX... I would love to see their break down of this fight..

Yoda + Plagueis FTW

Team FTW 10/10

""Palpatine did not stay dead' "Luke Skywalker was temporarily his apprentice" Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand that's why I don't read into the EU."

Team. Yoda and Sidious fought to a stalemate. Having Plagueis and the others is a curbstomp.

The post in this thread makes my head hurt.

@dccomicsrule2011: But who do you think wins?

Not really.

@dccomicsrule2011: Why, oh exalted one?

@ssjdarthplagueis:

To be honest, I'm not sure yet. I would love to hear JXM, Nova's opinion on the out-come.

This is a very well thought of battle.

@jaken7:

LOL. I like the sarcasm oozing out of your comment. To answer the question though, I'm reffering to all of the incorrect notions being presented here - and no, I'm not reffering to you, SSJDP, Shroud, or Whirlwind, if that's what you're thinking.

@dccomicsrule2011: Bwahaha! I couldn't help myself. And I was hoping you weren't, I was just curious.

Sidious has a chance.

With Plagueis and Yoda on him?

Dooku can put up a fight for a little bit with his dueling skills, and as for Anakin.....I kinda just threw him into this battle with not much thought put in it.

@ssjdarthplagueis: I was only saying Palpatine might be able to win a few rounds, like 2 or 3 or even 4. Anakin and Dooku are absolute non-factors (they wouldn't be able to react, and Sidious choked Dooku from across the galaxy decades before his prime), and Palpatine outclasses the other two by this point. He should be only slightly less skilled, but is more powerful and faster. That might be enough for him.

Dooku and Anakin don't matter much. But Yoda and Plagueis... I could see Palpatine winning, but probably not a majority.

Out of how many rounds?

If it where Vader instead then would that change much? His speed was better.

@ssjdarthplagueis: No, Anakin's speed is clearly greater than Vader's. Vader wouldn't do much either.

This is really just Yoda and Plagueis vs Sidious, as has been mentioned. And I think they have enough ability between them to overcome Sidious, though I'd expect one of them to fall before he does.

Sidious prefered to kill Plagueis while he was sleeping than confronting him. I know its more a way of ensuring the win, but it does favour the opinion that Plagueis was at Sidious level. But after Sidious became more powerful, i cant really say. Lucas stated Sidious is the strongest sith ever, and a quote from the creator himself is the most canon you can get :P

Plagues was indeed a hell powerful sith, and Sidious didnt ever understood some of the concepts plagueis DID understood, still.

Anakin and Dooku may be bellow Sidious, but they still would give some fight. Even if Sidious choked Dooku accross the galaxy before his prime, its a direct 4 vs 1 fight. He wont be able to choke Dooku while the rest look and clap. I think those 4 vs Sidious is too much for him. 1 vs 1, Anakin and Dooku would be crushed. But when Sidious has to deal with Yodas experience and Plagueis power, it just wont happen.

Lucas is no longer in power, and he never claimed Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord (at least, not to my knowledge), which was what EU sources established. That, and Anakin/Dooku would never be able to even see Sidious, let alone fight him properly.

Poor Sidious.

Yeah, you cut off a number of his own perks. I suppose Palpatine gets that for being one of the most titanically powerful beings in history.

Well if....I didn't cut any of them off what would be the outcome in your opinion?

Also The Ones are more powerful.

@ssjdarthplagueis: Then he wins. Team 2 has no way of defeating his essence anyways.

I said Sidious was one of the most powerful, not the most powerful. Abeloth and Luke are also more powerful than him.

And Dooku is not more powerful than Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar and Kit Fisto combined at all. I mean, honestly, I understand not all Viners are familiar with EU material, but they should at least read relevant source material before passing judgement. All three swordsmen are among the best ever produced by the Order, not to mention Agen Kolar wrecking Quinlan Vos with just as much ease as Dooku did, which indicates approachable combat skill. Saesee Tiin sparred evenly with Windu, which again, indicates comparable skill. Fisto casually outfought two Magnaguards, in the same trilogy where three of them were assessed to be above Kenobi's own combative skills, or more or less at least able to present a challenge to him. Each of them possesses skill that is approachable to Tyranus. Three of them combined would wreck him.

In power, Agen has no notable feats, but Saesee throwing droids four kilometers and Fisto effortlessly manipulating about seven or eight decently sized vessels and redirecting missiles should put them close to Tyranus's own power levels. That hardly matters considering their skill advantage over him anyways.

I give team the slightest majority 5.5-6/10

and you're right Dooku and Anakin are dead weight

Before Mace realizes what has happened, Kolar, Tiin, and Fisto have fallen to Sidious's blade.

--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary

Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them—but he could feel them in the Force. The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent. And it was darkening.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith