Darth Plagueis and Count Dooku vs. Yoda and Mace Windu

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Rebel_Leader1

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Darth Plagueis and (ROTS) Darth Tyranus vs. (ROTS) Yoda and (ROTS) Mace Windu.

Fight takes place in the Geonosis arena.

Who wins this Sith vs. Jedi matchup?

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Rebel_Leader1

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Anyone?

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ShootingNova

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Plagueis and Dooku. Plagueis rivals Yoda in every aspect except dueling, but should be able to hold his own anyways. Windu is Dooku's rival in dueling, but Dooku is faster and more powerful in the Force and would win over him. So it's a matter of who wins first, and I see Dooku beating Mace faster than Yoda beating Plagueis.

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Pharoh_Atem

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Yoda and Mace in a very close and interesting battle.

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laflux

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#5  Edited By laflux

Yoda and Mace in a very close and interesting battle.

See, not all Star Wars Battles are Starkiller/Revan Fanwanks including

HE CHANNELLED DA LIGHT AN DARK SIDEZ OF DA FORCE!!!!!!!!

HE BEAT DARK VADER!!!!!!!

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Rebel_Leader1

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ShootingNova

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@laflux said:

See, not all Star Wars Battles are Starkiller/Revan Fanwanks including

HE CHANNELLED DA LIGHT AN DARK SIDEZ OF DA FORCE!!!!!!!!

HE BEAT DARK VADER!!!!!!!

You just had to mention that, didn't you?

Insightful points. The force is strong with you.

I appreciate the compliments. I may opt to elucidate on my position when I have the time.

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myerlanski

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I don't know...I think Mace Windu's ability to perceive shatter points would point out which way to win this match and who the take out first. Also his fighting style allows to vast increase speed. Which is why he was able to fight off Darth Sidious. Add Yoda's superior light sabre skills. I got the Jedi's taking this match.

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Erkan12

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Plagueis vs Yoda : Plagueis

Dooku vs Windu : Windu

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JakeN7

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@laflux: Except the rest of the Internet in regards to Revan is dedicated to fanwank, this site however, is much more intent on bashing Revan...hard.

But honestly, fack Starkiller. Lol

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JakeN7

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Erkan12

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JakeN7

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@erkan12: Cool. It's a pretty interesting fight regardless.

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Whirlwind_33

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@jaken7: I like how you are asking Erkan instead of the real experts Nova and DC. Butt hurt flows through you.

Anyway I see team 1 taking this 6/10. Yoda can beat Plagueis but not before Count Dooku beats Windu.

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Silverrings

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Feats for Plagueis? I know what everyone else here is like, but i've seen nothing of Plagueis.

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JakeN7

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@whirlwind_33: WTF? I was asking for an expansion of his own statement. Why would I ask other users for that? You're facking weird dude, and I doubt dccomics or ShootingNova appreciate being dragged into your BS.

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myerlanski

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#18  Edited By myerlanski

@whirlwind_33: wow...no attack on you whirlwind what so ever. I'm sure you did not create that image. But what a stereotype type of a photo. Smdh.

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myerlanski

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#20  Edited By myerlanski

@whirlwind_33: no problem...and it does fit the context of what you were stating. Its just an observation I was expressing about our culture that feel being "hood" is synonymous with young African American men. I'm also of African descent.

Anywho...not to make this an issue any further soo...how bout them Jedi masters?Lol.

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ImBoredLetsDebate

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I don't see how Plagueis is going to defeat Yoda when Sidious RotS > Plagueis and Yoda was defeating/stalemating him for quite some time, arguably a better lightsaber duelist than Sidious.

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Penderor

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#22  Edited By Penderor

Jedi team wins in close and hard battle.

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deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

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Er.. does teamwork ever factor into these fights or is it purely a case of matching up the fighters 1v1?

Because ive seen plenty of 2v2 duels where opponents have switched. That could happen here. Which team member is more likely to have their partners back?

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Whirlwind_33

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Team 1 MURDERSTOMP.

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oceanmaster21

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Team 1

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thedarkmaster

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#26  Edited By thedarkmaster

@rebel_leader1: @rebel_leaderi think the jedi win because you never actually see 2 sith working together. when you look at attack of the clones you see mace windu and obi wan protecting eachother by fighting back to back. by doing this it shows they have trust and faith that the other will do his duty to protect his comrad. not only do you never see two sith fight together you never even see two of them fight at the same time. the dark side is not about wprking as a team it is more of an every man for himself operation. when it comes to using the force you dont see mace windu ever use it that much but yoda has enough power in him to stop darth sideos, lightning attacs. because of this i believe with the power yoda pasesses and winu's skill with a lightsabre the advantage goes to the jedi

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ShootingNova

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#27  Edited By ShootingNova

Plagueis beating Yoda, really? Plagueis has no advantages over Yoda, the latter of who, at least, has a dueling advantage. No, Midi-Chlorian Manipulation will not work, it has never been shown against anybody except beings too weak to even offer any resistance. Tenebrous, Venamis, King Veruna - all of them were in a state of weakness and vulnerability when Plagueis manipulated them - and Veruna isn't even Force-sensitive.

And Windu would not be beating Dooku for a majority at all. Windu is hardly more powerful than Obi-Wan, who Dooku ragdolled with the Force, and they are only equals as duelists, as per both feats and accolades. Dooku is also faster.

Regarding the Force, Dooku not only has better feats, but also better accolades. Windu has never received accolades on the scale of Dooku, who has been listed by unbiased sources as one of the most powerful Force practitioners in history. Windu is just being overly wanked because of his one feat in CW which is completely inconsistent with other sources such as Shatterpoint, in which he failed to lift miniature transports. And yet, he was TKing entire armies in CW. Both feats are inconsistent with his own regular power levels - one is a high-end feat, the other a low-end feat. Frankly, Windu's regular feats are impressive - manipulating boulders, manipulating trees, hurling droids nearly three kilometers, manipulating AT-TE's, etc. - they just aren't on par with Dooku's.

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ShootingNova

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Team 1 MURDERSTOMP.

Why would this be a stomp at all? Both members of team 2 can offer challenges to team 1.

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Whirlwind_33

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I was going to show these scans to someone above to show why Mace and Dooku have been shown to dueling equals. Plus I wrote about 3 paragraphs on why Dooku has the advantage against Windu, and how Yoda rival each other in force ability, but Yoda has the slight edge in Saber combat. Unfortunately my computer randomly shut off when I was about to finish. I got ticked off, so I lazily put team 1 stomps. I agree with your analysis completely.

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#31  Edited By ShootingNova

@whirlwind_33: That's honestly not enough. The first scan regards Yoda as "their equal" too, which isn't the case. It's just a rough estimation. The second was not really a stalemate - it was an indecisive duel because Magnaguards interfered on Dooku's behalf. There's a lot more that needs to be referenced, and I may consider making a blog about it simply because it is so heated. But it has been addressed many times before.

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SSJDarthPlagueis

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Team two should win.

Plagueis vs. Yoda: Yoda

Dooku vs. Yoda: Yoda

^Easy to think about

Plagueis vs. Mace: Plagueis. May have to think about it more. Mace maybe the better duelist since Plagueis has a lack of saber dueling combat. Force abilities is a little more hard. Both are very powerful in force waves and pushes as Plagueis atomized assassins and Mace pushed a large amount of droids back.

Dooku vs. Mace: Maybe Mace.... I'm a little undecided here. Need to refresh on Dooku's feats.

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ShootingNova

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#33  Edited By ShootingNova
@ssjdarthplagueis said:

Plagueis vs. Mace: Plagueis. May have to think about it more. Mace maybe the better duelist since Plagueis has a lack of saber dueling combat. Force abilities is a little more hard. Both are very powerful in force waves and pushes as Plagueis atomized assassins and Mace pushed a large amount of droids back.

Plagueis is vastly more powerful than Mace in the Force, is much faster, much stronger, and likely is as skilled on the account of his position alone, but by what we know, would only be a little be behind Mace. Mace's TKing army feat is inconsistent, as I have explained above, and really, for all of Mace's consistent feats (manipulating boulders, manipulating trees, hurling droids nearly three kilometers, manipulating AT-TE's, etc), he is nowhere near Plagueis telekinetically.

Plagueis would win 10/10 against Windu.

Dooku vs. Mace: Maybe Mace.... I'm a little undecided here. Need to refresh on Dooku's feats.

Dooku has beaten Mace before, and presumably Mace has beaten Dooku, since we know they are equals as duelist as per sources, and they have equal skill feats. Dooku outfought Sora Bulq rather easily before, while Mace only stalemated Bulq. However, we can attribute this to Windu and Bulq both being proficient in one another's styles, which would have given them encyclopedic knowledge on each other's fighting styles (which are identical), and therefore inciting a relationship not unlike Obi-Wan and Anakin's. This is probably why they only fought as equals - and if the battle had been prolonged, I would have expected Mace to win every time.

Dooku also repeatedly outfought Grievous, while Mace stalemated a Grievous who had a lack of mobility. However, this has a number of circumstantial elements to consider as well:

  1. Dooku trained Grievous, and therefore he would possess a near-encyclopedic knowledge of Grievous's fighting techniques, which Mace doesn't. He also has the advantage of sparring endless with Grievous, which is basically amounting to the same thing.
  2. Dooku has greater speed feats than Mace, and so does Grievous. In totality, I doubt this would have mattered much, but it is worth noting.

So there were favorable elements on Dooku's behalf, and while Dooku has repeatedly beaten Grievous, we also know Grievous has challenged Dooku in the past:

Grievous had been a delight to train, as well. No need to coax him to release his anger and rage, as Dooku had been forced to do during the training of his so-called Dark Jedi disciples. The Geonosians had arranged for Grievous to be nothing but anger and rage. And as to the general's combat skills, few, if any, Jedi would be capable of defeating him. There had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg.

Source: Labyrinth of Evil

In terms of power, though, Dooku's power feats and accolades are in excess of anything Mace has ever shown. This will be what makes him the victor for a majority of rounds.

So in all, Yoda is only slightly ahead of Plagueis, and Dooku has shown that he can at least contend with Yoda. Dooku is slightly ahead of Windu, but Plagueis would beat Windu every time. Your opinion is noted and respected, but that, to me, would indicate that team 1 would have this fight for a majority.

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SSJDarthPlagueis

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Feats for Plagueis? I know what everyone else here is like, but i've seen nothing of Plagueis.

Saber dueling: So far has only dueled once in the Novel. Which claimed to be a "master of the art" despite his distaste in saber combat. He dueled one of his master's apprentice, and was short.

Speed: Very faster. To human eye he is only be seen as a blur and sometimes unseen. Sidious soon caught up to this.

Force waves and pushes: His waves and pushes were so powerful he literally blew of body parts or completely blow up people as shown in an assassination attempt o him.

Super strength: He has crushed skulls even when armor was on it

Healing: Can heal major wounds like when he almost bled out from his jaw being cut open. Which also to add he can take a beating pretty well and can continue to fight despite massive blood loss due to him having more than one heart and can be in colder weather due to his hearts keeping him warm.

Force lighting: Pretty fair. He has set a field on fire, and killed a person by shocking them from the inside by hold her hand

Force choke: Has choked Sidious without looking at him, and snap the neck of his Master with it.

Telekinesis: Has lifted boulders from a clasping cave/mine I believe it was, and crushed his master pretty quickly with it once he saw a opportunity.

Raising the dead: Has killed and brought back to life his master's apprentice over and over again.

^ may have missed some parts. I don't remember the book completely.

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#36  Edited By SSJDarthPlagueis

@ssjdarthplagueis said:

Plagueis vs. Mace: Plagueis. May have to think about it more. Mace maybe the better duelist since Plagueis has a lack of saber dueling combat. Force abilities is a little more hard. Both are very powerful in force waves and pushes as Plagueis atomized assassins and Mace pushed a large amount of droids back.

Plagueis is vastly more powerful than Mace in the Force, is much faster, much stronger, and likely is as skilled on the account of his position alone, but by what we know, would only be a little be behind Mace. Mace's TKing army feat is inconsistent, as I have explained above, and really, for all of Mace's consistent feats (manipulating boulders, manipulating trees, hurling droids nearly three kilometers, manipulating AT-TE's, etc), he is nowhere near Plagueis telekinetically.

Plagueis would win 10/10 against Windu.

Dooku vs. Mace: Maybe Mace.... I'm a little undecided here. Need to refresh on Dooku's feats.

Dooku has beaten Mace before, and presumably Mace has beaten Dooku, since we know they are equals as duelist as per sources, and they have equal skill feats. Dooku outfought Sora Bulq rather easily before, while Mace only stalemated Bulq. However, we can attribute this to Windu and Bulq both being proficient in one another's styles, which would have given them encyclopedic knowledge on each other's fighting styles (which are identical), and therefore inciting a relationship not unlike Obi-Wan and Anakin's. This is probably why they only fought as equals - and if the battle had been prolonged, I would have expected Mace to win every time.

Dooku also repeatedly outfought Grievous, while Mace stalemated a Grievous who had a lack of mobility. However, this has a number of circumstantial elements to consider as well:

  1. Dooku trained Grievous, and therefore he would possess a near-encyclopedic knowledge of Grievous's fighting techniques, which Mace doesn't. He also has the advantage of sparring endless with Grievous, which is basically amounting to the same thing.
  2. Dooku has greater speed feats than Mace, and so does Grievous. In totality, I doubt this would have mattered much, but it is worth noting.

So there were favorable elements on Dooku's behalf, and while Dooku has repeatedly beaten Grievous, we also know Grievous has challenged Dooku in the past:

Grievous had been a delight to train, as well. No need to coax him to release his anger and rage, as Dooku had been forced to do during the training of his so-called Dark Jedi disciples. The Geonosians had arranged for Grievous to be nothing but anger and rage. And as to the general's combat skills, few, if any, Jedi would be capable of defeating him. There had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg.

Source: Labyrinth of Evil

In terms of power, though, Dooku's power feats and accolades are in excess of anything Mace has ever shown. This will be what makes him the victor for a majority of rounds.

So in all, Yoda is only slightly ahead of Plagueis, and Dooku has shown that he can at least contend with Yoda. Dooku is slightly ahead of Windu, but Plagueis would beat Windu every time. Your opinion is noted and respected, but that, to me, would indicate that team 1 would have this fight for a majority.

Respected. Yoda is team two's MVP and could possibly go toe to toe with team 1 by himself with his great dueling skills and speed with Plagueis giving him more trouble than of Dooku. As Dooku was getting into desperation when fighting Yoda in Dark Rendezvous. But it will be overwhelming though for Yoda with the both of them at him,

As for Dooku feats that you have stated I'm leaning more towards him against Mace, and more for team 1. Thanks for refreshing.

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Supergco

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#37  Edited By Supergco

Gonna go with the Jedi (barely)

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Silverrings

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#38  Edited By Silverrings

@ssjdarthplagueis Thanks for the list, helpful stuff. Do you remember what the book was called?

@shootingnova Thanks, dude, i'll look through that properly in a bit. This is looking like a pretty close fight, but i'm leaning towards the Sith already.

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#42  Edited By ShootingNova
@silverrings said:

Thanks, dude, i'll look through that properly in a bit.

Any time.

This is looking like a pretty close fight

It certainly is.

but i'm leaning towards the Sith already.

So am I. Probably 7-9/10.

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#43  Edited By DarthSamburger

Probably go with Yoda and Windu. I mean Yoda should be slightly better than Plagueis in terms of skill with a saber, but other than that it seems to be pretty even. Mace and Dooku however, could be argued. Most people I talk to seem to think Dooku>Windu OR stalemate, however I see it as Windu>Dooku OR stalemate because of Dooku's lack of endurance caused by age. Bumpity bump.

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#44  Edited By PLAYA1

Probably go with Yoda and Windu. I mean Yoda should be slightly better than Plagueis in terms of skill with a saber, but other than that it seems to be pretty even.

Agreed. Yoda's better than Plagueis and Mace is even with Dooku.

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#46 juiceboks  Moderator

Team 2. Yoda is by far the most well rounded fighter and Mace can hold his own against either of the Sith unless they abuse their force advantage right off the bat which they won't.

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laflux

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Team 2. Yoda is by far the most well rounded fighter and Mace can hold his own against either of the Sith unless they abuse their force advantage right off the bat which they won't.

I think Mace would struggle with the Muun's speed to be honest.

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Pharoh_Atem

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The Sith.

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Eisenfauste

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Yoda can comfortably out duel dooku and Mace can at least hold his own against the Muun till Yoda finishes up demolishing Saruman to help with the clean up.

Team 2 for the majority.

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#50 juiceboks  Moderator

@laflux: I believe his skill edge offsets the speed deficit, at the very least enough to where he could hold his own long enough for Yoda to take down his apprentice.