#1 Edited by RoyHarperBLOW (1493 posts) - - Show Bio

No Prep. Battle on an Deserted Earth

Battle to The Death

All Force Powers and Lightsabers are allowed.

Random Encounter

Both think each other is an enemy

No Holding back

Who wins?

VS

NOTE: Both Characters are in their PRIME.

#2 Posted by RoyHarperBLOW (1493 posts) - - Show Bio

#3 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

Ironic isn't it? since we were just debating this in the thread.

As for the topic at hand, I'd give this to Nihilius. Especially since he's at his prime. He should be able to drain Vitiate's life force. Especially since Vitiate isn't a wound in the Force.

#4 Posted by RoyHarperBLOW (1493 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716: Bioware made up Vitiate right? Any way I think Nihilus wins too.

#5 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoyHarperBLOW: What do you mean by made up Vitiate? They created him, yes.

#6 Posted by RoyHarperBLOW (1493 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716: Post by JediXMan (20,234 posts) See mini bio

Level 19

BioWare said "Hey! Obsidian made a better game than us! Bah! We have to do better; we'll make a new character who also happens to rely on draining. It'll look like we are the ones who had the idea!"

I'm bitter.

Posted 3 days ago
This is what JediXMan said said on this thread.
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion/1/darth-nihiluslord-vitiate/714569/
So I was wondering if Bioware basically used Nihilus as inspiration or ripped him off.

#7 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@RoyHarperBLOW: I don't think they did, but i don't know for sure. But, (and he'll hate me for this) that's just JXM's opinion. Doesn't necesarilly mean that he is correct. (not that i am, mind you)

#8 Edited by steelhound56 (1074 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm..... I'll go with Prime Nihilus here...

Going by statements on loading screens in KOTOR II, among other statements made by party member in game

Dude completely devastated Katarr killing all life on the planet, save for Visas,

Ripped his capital ship out of Malachor V's gravity well, as well as pretty much held it together through sheer force of will.

Escaped death by his affliction (being a massive wound in the Force) by containing his essence in his armor and mask.

One shotted Darth Sion in the unfinished content in KOTOR II. Said one shot was done with apparently no effort on Nihilus' part.

Drained Kreia of her Force abilities almost instantly.

It took Surik, Mandalore, and Visas to take him down while he was in an immensely weakened state due to hunger, and was further weakened when he attempted to feed on Surik.

Vitate also devastated a planet, although in order to accomplish said feat he needed help from his Sith followers to undergo a ritual that unleashed said devastation. He also subjugated 8,000? Sith Lords to his own will in order to carry out said ritual. Good feat of willpower and mental domination, although Revan was able to resist his control in that crappy novel.

He was pretty impressive from what I've read of him (still NEED to play TOR), but I don't think he will be able to deal with Nihilus' unique status within the Force before Nihilus drains him.

If Vitate has this immense Force potential, Nihilus will look to go for the straight Drain kill from the get go. He will sense it, and he will feed upon it until it is completely gone.

#9 Posted by ShootingNova (15255 posts) - - Show Bio

Nihilus wins if the Emperor does not know how to protect himself from Drain. A possibility.

If otherwise, he gets stomped.

@steelhound56 said:

It took Surik, Mandalore, and Visas to take him down while he was in an immensely weakened state due to hunger, and was further weakened when he attempted to feed on Surik.

Honestly, Surik is no better than an average Jedi Master. Mandalore isn't even Force sensitive, and Visas is featless (in fact losing to Meetra before her prime makes it even worse). Vitiate contending with Revan is a much better feat.

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#10 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: I find it hard to believe that Surik was just about average with a Jedi Master. Perhaps an example of an average Jedi MAster would help? as the average is hard to determinue

#11 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: I find it hard to believe that Surik was just about average with a Jedi Master. Perhaps an example of an average Jedi MAster would help? as the average is hard to determinue

#12 Edited by ShootingNova (15255 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716: Why post twice? Thought the first one didn't come through?

Honestly, I'll just say Surik might be just slightly above an average Jedi Master. She has displayed no impressive qualities in terms of feats. She has only beaten featless beings, and most of that is circumstantial (plus Traya could be argued as holding back). Surik wasn't even able to speedblitz four humans (who lack Force-sensitivity) despite the advantage she had, and Scourge has already thought of her as a significant, worthy foe. The fact he did not know who would win between them seems to suggest they are equals. Plus she didn't fair very well against Nyriss, not any better than Scourge, at least.

Surik has a average telekinetic feat, and that is hurling an armoured woman into a stone wall, killing her instantly. Honestly, considering how it was stone, that's just..... not very impressive.

Her saber feats (apart from killing featless Sith Lords (+ it was not really a display of power, and was mainly circumstantial) are defeating three humans (Murtog and two others), who, while disciplined and having some skill, have absolutely no training in the Force and they were momentarily blinded. The fact that Surik had a clear, visible advantage and failed to simply speedblitz them is evidence of her lackluster saber skills. Better than Revan's, at least, but Revan has done much better in terms of Force Power.

She also took quite some time to kill.... two (I believe) Imperial Guards, which is laughable.

She was also stomped flat-out by Nyriss, even when Scourge was helping her. Pitiful.

So, as you can see, Surik has nothing special tagged to her name.

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#13 Posted by steelhound56 (1074 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: This is true. I was just comparing high end feats from both Nihilus and Vitate. Nihilus has more impressive higher end feats IMO.

Vitate didn't contend with Revan. He curbstomped him after a brief altercation. Revan briefly contended with the Emperor, before getting owned by Vitate's lightning.

It's not that Vitate wont have a defense against Nihilus' Drain ability, I just dont think said defense will be sufficient to counter a Prime Nihilus' Drain, which devastated an entire planet.

But this is all speculation, until I play TOR (which I'm picking up in the next few weeks), I'll withold a more detailed analysis on VItate's abilities.

But I'll stick by my argument. Given allegorical statements from NPC's and loading screen statements into account, Nihilus was a monster

#14 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio
@ShootingNova said: Why post twice? Thought the first one didn't come through?

I didn't think i posted it twice.

Honestly, I'll just say Surik might be just slightly above an average Jedi Master. She has displayed no impressive qualities in terms of feats. She has only beaten featless beings, and most of that is circumstantial (plus Traya could be argued as holding back). Surik wasn't even able to speedblitz four humans (who lack Force-sensitivity) despite the advantage she had, and Scourge has already thought of her as a significant, worthy foe. The fact he did not know who would win between them seems to suggest they are equals. Plus she didn't fair very well against Nyriss, not any better than Scourge, at least.

Let's see.... Nihilius (destroyed Katarr), Sion (killed Lonna Vash), Traya (killed three members of the Jedi High Council), But to be fair, all those people She killed had no combat feats.

Still, can you give me an example of a Average Jedi Master?

#15 Posted by ShootingNova (15255 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716: Okay. Again, "average Jedi Master" will have varied definitions, but Meetra is not impressive. Her feats are averaged.

Nihilus draining Katarr is worthless because he was unable to apply that on Meetra.

Lonna Vash is featless and the fact that Sion was seemingly killed over and over again by Meetra (who has poor showings) shows Sion's skills are pitiful.

Traya arguably held back, and draining the Council is again, worthless because it cannot be done on Meetra.

@steelhound56: Regardless of how powerful his drain is, a defence will nullify the entire drain. Revan was contending with the Emperor for some time (arguably the Emperor was holding back, granted how he was seemingly much more powerful). He needed to charge up a Force Storm to overpower Revan, otherwise his basic Lightning isn't very special at all:

Revan intercepted the bolt with the blade of his lightsaber, though the impact stopped his charge dead in its tracks.

The Emperor unleashed three more bolts in quick succession. Revan batted the first aside with his lightsaber, ducked the second, then deflected the third back at its source.

It struck the Emperor in the chest, sending him sliding several meters back on the floor.

-- Taken from The Old Republic: Revan

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#16 Posted by JediXMan (29278 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@JamesKM716: Okay. Again, "average Jedi Master" will have varied definitions, but Meetra is not impressive. Her feats are averaged.

Nihilus draining Katarr is worthless because he was unable to apply that on Meetra.

Lonna Vash is featless and the fact that Sion was seemingly killed over and over again by Meetra (who has poor showings) shows Sion's skills are pitiful.

Traya arguably held back, and draining the Council is again, worthless because it cannot be done on Meetra.

Nihilus couldn't do it to Meetra because of Meetra's unique place in the Force, which she shares with Nihilus.

I call WIS that Meetra sucked in the book. But Meetra's abilities are inconsequential. As I've said before, the reason she beat Nihilus wasn't because she was better than him; there were many circumstances (primarily, three) that caused Nihilus to lose.

Again, it's debatable that Meetra is immune to drain. It could also be theorized that Kreia chose not to use it on Meetra. Kreia did not seem to desire her death.

Also, Kreia did not just drain them: she also cut them off from the Force.

"This master is dead.... drained of life. His body is worse than lifeless. It's like an absence in the Force."

--- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

(found by clicking the body of any of the three masters)

As you would pass judgment on her, I have come to pass judgment on you all. Do you wish to feel the teachings born of the Mandalorian Wars? Of all wars, of all tragedies that scream across the galaxy? Let me show you—you, who have forever seen the galaxy through the Force. See it through the eyes of the Exile

--- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

Putting three Masters in stasis simultaneously is a decent feat, despite their lack of showings. Though at the very least, it is implied they know Sever Force. She held them in place with the Force, and severed three Masters at once. That is impressive.

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#17 Posted by ShootingNova (15255 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

Nihilus couldn't do it to Meetra because of Meetra's unique place in the Force, which she shares with Nihilus.

I am well aware of this. Again, Meetra being a Wound in the Force made it impossible for her to be drained.

I call WIS that Meetra sucked in the book. But Meetra's abilities are inconsequential. As I've said before, the reason she beat Nihilus wasn't because she was better than him; there were many circumstances (primarily, three) that caused Nihilus to lose.

I know that. Any average Jedi Master with multiple circumstantial advantages should have easily defeated Sith Lords of that calibre.

Again, it's debatable that Meetra is immune to drain. It could also be theorized that Kreia chose not to use it on Meetra. Kreia did not seem to desire her death.

Exactly why I can see (and perhaps believe) that Traya was holding back in that final battle.

Also, Kreia did not just drain them: she also cut them off from the Force.

"This master is dead.... drained of life. His body is worse than lifeless. It's like an absence in the Force."

--- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

(found by clicking the body of any of the three masters)

As you would pass judgment on her, I have come to pass judgment on you all. Do you wish to feel the teachings born of the Mandalorian Wars? Of all wars, of all tragedies that scream across the galaxy? Let me show you—you, who have forever seen the galaxy through the Force. See it through the eyes of the Exile

--- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

A drain powerful enough can drain them of the Force and simply leave behind Wounds in the Force, as shown by Nihilus.

Putting three Masters in stasis simultaneously is a decent feat, despite their lack of showings. Though at the very least, it is implied they know Sever Force.

Not implied, shown and stated. They were already beginning to use it before Kreia used Force Wave and sent them all flying. Also, she never put them in stasis.

She held them in place with the Force, and severed three Masters at once. That is impressive.

I don't recall her holding them in place at all. It was Force Drain, not Sever Force. Sever Force is not harmful in any way because it simply cuts off their connection to the Force. It can have detrimental effects on them, but not to the extent of a Drain powerful enough. Kreia's draining left behind Wounds in the Force, hence the "It's like an absence in the Force". And when she told them "see it through the eyes of the Exile (a Wound in the Force herself)" it was clearly showing she was going to turn them or leave behind Wounds in the Force.

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