Darth Maul vs. Shaak Ti

Once again, after talking to a fellow comicviner, I became curious about a fight. I'm not going to lie about this, I'm unsure on just how powerful Shaak Ti is. So I'd like to see how this fight goes.

Location:

Rules:

Like my other battle post, if Darth Maul wins, he becomes Sidious apprentice once again.

If Shaak Ti wins, Sidious will turn himself in.

Round 1:

Darth Maul has his old body.

Round 2:

Darth Maul has his metal lower half.

Use both movie and Eu versions.

Maul.

Maul.

What? SHAAK TI WINS!

You are doing your best to make the people I listed look horrible, hmm?

This makes me want to set up more threads that would humiliate Maul. He's not Sidious, he's a simple Sith warrior that can be destroyed by alot of Jedi.

Shaak ti basically used the light side to put Felucians under her control....That bypasses anything Maul has done.

She survived order 66.

She fought with Galen Marek, and HE didn't kill her, she killed herself.

Maul would be destroyed by Marek.

I will list more feats when I find them.

@MasterJohn said:

What? SHAAK TI WINS!

You are doing your best to make the people I listed look horrible, hmm?

This makes me want to set up more threads that would humiliate Maul. He's not Sidious, he's a simple Sith warrior that can be destroyed by alot of Jedi.

I love how you assume that I'm setting up battles for Maul to win. You say she would win, I wanted to see if you're right. Obviously people disagree with you. I'm not setting anything up. So quit acting like that. It's seriously getting beyond annoying.

What saber is he using? Also, if it's double ended does she know that it is? He has used single and double before and it has worked in his favour previously to only use one side and then use the second one as an ambush.

Shaak Ti rather easily she is considered one of the best swordsmen of the era and was able to hold her own against grievous and other adversaries respected by even palpatine

I would back Shaak Ti for fun.

@Drakkis said:

Shaak Ti rather easily she is considered one of the best swordsmen of the era and was able to hold her own against grievous and other adversaries respected by even palpatine

Exactly.

@GhostRider29@MasterJohn I don't mean to bring this post back to life, but I saw the original battle post where you two were bickering about Darth Maul and...Plo Koon I think it was. But anyways, Darth Maul has this in the bag, both rounds, it would be an extremely heated and even fight (And it would probably be amazing by the way) but there is absolutely no way that Shaak Ti could pull off a win on Darth Maul. Darth Maul has trained his body to an intense rate, not only that, but his mind, not only sick,twisted and savage but is also extremely tactically intelligent. The only downfall Maul might suffer from is his arrogance, but, even despite that, he would win roughly 7/10 times. (By the way, I'm pretty sure, correct me if i'm wrong, that Maul has better control of the force. But I think that was mainly showcased in TCW)

@DamianWayne said:

@GhostRider29@MasterJohn I don't mean to bring this post back to life, but I saw the original battle post where you two were bickering about Darth Maul and...Plo Koon I think it was. But anyways, Darth Maul has this in the bag, both rounds, it would be an extremely heated and even fight (And it would probably be amazing by the way) but there is absolutely no way that Shaak Ti could pull off a win on Darth Maul. Darth Maul has trained his body to an intense rate, not only that, but his mind, not only sick,twisted and savage but is also extremely tactically intelligent. The only downfall Maul might suffer from is his arrogance, but, even despite that, he would win roughly 7/10 times. (By the way, I'm pretty sure, correct me if i'm wrong, that Maul has better control of the force. But I think that was mainly showcased in TCW)

Did you HAVE to bring this piece of ilk thread back?

He's posing Maul as Sidious or Vader. I only accept alot of Jedi can not defeat Vader, and only 1 Jedi can defeat Palpatine.

Darth Maul can be defeated by alot of Jedi. That's my point.

@Drakkis: i agree

shaak ti is a beast. maul is overrated

Maul SLAUGHTERHOUSE.

@MasterJohn said:

Shaak ti basically used the light side to put Felucians under her control....That bypasses anything Maul has done.

I would say it's just different. I also wouldn't really say she was "controlling" the Felucians. Plus, the whole planet seemed to be force sensitive to begin with.

She survived order 66.

That doesn't mean much; she might have just been someplace where there weren't a lot of clones when it happened. Plus, I always felt Order 66 was a low-showing for the entire Jedi order, even by G-canon standards. Most of them got taken out by what, a half-dozen clone troopers? Just shouldn't have been that easy.

She fought with Galen Marek, and HE didn't kill her, she killed herself.

In the games they sort of stalemate, and she jumps into the Sarlaac herself. In the book he actually stabs her through the chest though.

Maul would be destroyed by Marek.

At that point in TFU, I think Maul would probably win. A copy of him had the advantage in a fight with Darth Vader (pretty much only lost because Vader pulled out a fairly ridiculous move that could only work in comic-book land, where distances magically shrink without anyone noticing). Plus, Qui Gon and Obi Wan (even as a Padawan) are nothing to sneeze at, and Maul held his own against both of them together, and beat them individually (got killed by OW because he stopped to gloat in a ridiculous fashion; Obi-Wan was also absurdly lucky there happened to be an object on the inside of the bottomless pit for him to grab onto).

I will list more feats when I find them.

No problem. But here you've really only listed one combat feat, which she pretty much lost, and Galan wasn't even at his full potential at the time, and honestly, it just looks to me like Maul was more impressive in TPM and in his fight with Vader. I have a hard time viewing her as being much superior to Qui-Gon.

His force abilities seem proportionately weak compared to his fighting skills, but at the same time, I don't know if Shaak-Ti can really do much in that area either.

I haven't seen the cyborg version of him so can't comment on that.

Shaak was actually in the Jedi Temple during Order 66; she was forced to flee from Vader.
 
There is ample reason to believe Maul was amped during his fight with Vader; so that might not be the best example to cite. Regardless, Maul has been stated in a Fact File issue as one of the single best Sith swordmasters of all time, and his track record against Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anoon Bondara, and Darsha Assant is sufficient, certainly better than anything Shaak has accomplished in combat (her one victory in a duel was against a non-Force sensitive; though she was injured at the time, it is still nothing to parallel Maul).
 
Pertaining to Force power, Shaak has no feats that supersede Maul's, especially not TCW Maul. TCW Maul has casually collapsed archways and, with the help of Savage, hurled back dozens to hundreds of soldiers.

@Silver2467 I am not going to try to debate since you think Shaak will lose, and you know more about Star Wars then any of us, but can you name some Jedi who would defeat Maul? It's not like Maul is Vader or Sidious.

Maul destroys Shaak Ti.

@MasterJohn said:

Shaak ti basically used the light side to put Felucians under her control....That bypasses anything Maul has done.

Not under her control. She hasn't mind-wiped them into oblivion or something.

She survived order 66.

By escaping. She was forced to flee from Vader.

She fought with Galen Marek, and HE didn't kill her, she killed herself.

Well, not exactly.

Maul would be destroyed by Marek.

In Force powers, perhaps. In saber combat, this is the other way around.

Marek single handedly broke starwars lore... before the forced unleashed yoda would struggle to hold up a large pillar and after vader is pulling a star destroyer out of space and into a planet.... this is why starwars battles get so twisted. I like to use battle not feats to make them more understandable. Quigon jin was ranked equal with dooku and windu. Maul killed Quigon straight out and no gimicks.  
 
now you may say "well obi-wan beat maul" and there's another reason why starwars lore is messed up. but i believe lucas credited it to the fact that obi-wan drew on the dark side to beat maul and take him by surprise (PIS). either way, the lore doesn't look at maul as beating jiin as a fluke but merely to his martial prowress. 
 
final vote: Maul wins. shaak should be more on the seasi tiin - kit fisto level. 

@Drache64: Marek broke SW lore as in what? More powerful than anybody else, or being an abomination to SW? The latter is correct, the former is horrendously incorrect.

obi-wan drew on the dark side to beat maul and take him by surprise

I disagree. This wasn't true, Obi-Wan simply used Force Rage. Arguably, that is tapping into the Dark Side, but not absolutely drawing into it to the point of corruption, which seems to be the case with nearly everybody who attempts to "draw upon the Dark Side".

shaak should be more on the seasi tiin - kit fisto level.

Also something I disagree in. Saesee has stalemated Windu, Fisto has held his own (and was on the verge of defeating) Grievous. Shaak Ti was forced to flee when duelling Anakin.

i was reffering to the abomination side of it (cheers) 
 
and you have also described my obi-wan point as well (and more in depth) 
 
and for your third point i would say windu could still beat saesee and fisto hence they're not the blade master. but overall i'd say we agree on you major points 3/3.

@Drache64: Saesee has stalemated Windu:

Especially now with Maul in SoD. It's pretty decisive.

Darth-Maul.

Maul stomps

@shootingnova: Can you see if this makes sense? lol

Ventress stalemated Grievous.

Ventress=Grievous

She admitted that Savage had her outmatched.

Savage>Ventress=Grievous

Maul beat Savage very easily.

Maul>Savage>Ventress=Grievous

Grievous stomps Shaak Ti

Maul>Savage>Ventress=Grievous>Shaak Ti

Darth Maul should win.

Ridiculous. TPM Maul destroys her within a dozen seconds. TCW Maul would slaughterhouse on the account of being vastly more powerful and outclassing her physically and with a blade.

ABC logic is a poor method of deducting character skills and abilities, and this is TPM Maul as well as TCW Maul. And Ventress only beat Grievous on Dathomir, which amplifies her powers. Pre-TCW Grievous, which is the one that stomped Shaak, is vastly superior to the TCW iteration regardless. That iteration has been stated as more powerful than Ventress by Dooku, a non-biased character who essentially hates them both (uses them both as tools) and has enough experience fighting both of them anyway.

I was always under the impression that shaak ti was a much more powerful jedi and one of the best duelist of her time. Shaak ti ftw

You were under a very, very false impression. Give me any power or dueling feat from her, and I'll give you one in return from Maul that is quite literally about three times as impressive.

Maul would absolutely decimate her. Martially, lightsaber combat, through sheer Force power - doesn't matter. She's outclassed, plain and simple. The fact this thread hasn't been locked yet is frankly quite silly.

TPM Maul would not decimate Shaak Ti in the Force. I'm not even sure TCW Maul could either since Galen couldn't (well at least not straight away) and he is at least a tier above Maul in terms of raw Force ability.

I meant TCW Maul in my answer.

1. Could you remind me of how their fight went down? Wasn't the Sarlacc interfering, and wouldn't Ti of been drawing on ambient Force energy during that fight? I could be way off here though.

2. Wasn't Galen constantly improving as his story went on? Like, he wasn't always capable of his highest power feats - he had to work towards them? Because if that's the case, then we can only really count his showings prior to fighting Ti, which IIRC weren't better than TCW Maul's.

Still though - Maul being able to telekinetically ragdoll Kenobi, along with his other power feats, are what lead me to the conclusion that he could do the same to Ti (who isn't superior to Kenobi, as far as I know).

Okay

1) It's been awhile since I've read that story myself, I think she called on the Sarlaac after Galen started hurling Force attack towards her way. As for drawing on Force energy I will have to check and see.

2) It was stated during the story that Galen was steadily becoming more powerful after each and every fight, but I don't know if they were referring to overall raw force abilities, or dueling skills or both. Another thing, it's also possible that Shaak's Force abilities advanced since ROTE era. Of course it's speculation, but it's not out of the question entirely.

3) Fair enough.

@dccomicsrule2011: Alright. I would read TFU novel but I just find Galen utterly bland xD I do have the comics.. I could check that, but I doubt it'd provide the same kind of context.

@dccomicsrule2011: The comic says that Felucia was strong in the Force, but it was wild and chaotic, and leaning towards the Dark Side. Ti was described as a "beacon in the Darkness". She also had full control over the planet's wildlife. Maybe the novel goes more into it.. but I believe Ti was somewhat absorbing ambient energy from the planet, just from being attuned to the surroundings for so long (which would explain her ability to control the plantlife and sarlaac). However, she was also telekinetically dominating Galen in the beginning of the duel. She Force pushes him, and then charges up a ball of telekinetic energy and blasts Galen. This was the same Galen who was able to telekinetically push 2/3rds of a Tie fighter across the ground to hit a group of militia soldiers.

Having reviewed this version of Shaak Ti.. I would say that if she was amped at the time, then the feat is somewhat less impressive, but not enough to suggest that Maul could dominate her. She'd be able to resist him at first in terms of power.

If she wasn't amped, then it's impressive enough to suggest that she's actually kind of close to Maul. Directly TKing someone who can push parts of Tie fighters is roughly as good as Maul TKing Kenobi, and pulling the Eta-class shuttle off a cliff.

So, TCW Maul would still win 10/10 on account of being more powerful to some degree, and being better physically and as a fighter overall, but he couldn't destroy Ti in the Force. Although maybe as the fight wears on he could introduce telekinesis.

@i_like_swords: dang I didnt know maul had it like that.... but its cool since I don't know too much about him

If this is TPM Maul, it would be a good fight and Shaak could last some time before going down, though she losses 10/10.
Now if this is TCW and SoD Maul, the question is can Shaak Ti last longer than 30 seconds. She is slightly more powerful, but Maul is much faster, stronger, much more skilled etc. He wins 10/10.

Shazam to takes this, Shaak ti has evenly dueled with anakin during the Jedi temple attacked even injuring her m, anakin has been stated to be right below yoda and sidious, and evenly contended with Galen marek, someone who has beat earth Vader (who was not in his prime) Shaak to has demonstrated enough stamina to duel simultaneously with 12 magna droids, and was so powerful she was able to influence an entire planet, maul has failed to beat kenobi with the help of a brother Powerful enough to overpower ventress, someone who has survived bouts with anakin and dooku, to takes this

Shaak Ti stomps

Three years later, and nothing's changed. This is still the correct answer.

Let's green egg and ham it.

Nah, Maul isn't slaughterhousing someone as skilled and as powerful as Ti. He's winning every time, tho.

Why not? His feats of power are honestly at least her equal, if not better, and his skill feats are superior. What makes this close?

@silver2467:Oh, it's not close. Maul has all the advantages, and should win without that much of a struggle. But that doesn't really mean slaughterhouse, which I take as a one-shot, speedblitz or any type of victory that takes only 5 seconds to actually achieve; like Fisto VS Sidious.

Their power is close any way you spin it, but Maul is superior as a duelist and physically by a considerable margin, but not so much that Shaak couldn't hang for a bit of time.

@wollfmyth209: Ah, alright. I don't think Maul would just one-shot her or speedblitz her, if that was what you took it to mean. So fair enough.

Good debate, Wollf. I feel we've broken new ground in critical thinking and analytical debating on this site and set an example for users everywhere. Case studies will be written and studied for years of this astute bandying of grand insights.

:P

Ti is more powerful, but is it enough to counter Maul's skill? It's a very debatable question.

On one hand you can say out-duelling Marek, who was near-perfect as a duelist long before Felucia, puts her close enough to close the gap; but Darth Maul is one of the best swordsmen ever.

On the other, you could argue Shaak Ti's Force edge is enough. Before she was besting/stalemating Galen, she was capable of telekinetically holding back the sheer weight of an ocean in a tunnel.

One of the best TK feats on the Jedi High Council, and that arguably makes her much tougher than Kenobi in a Force contest. Maul has crazy durability though; at the same time Ti has things like Kinetite.

Very good fight.

@sithrevenant: lol good fight? Maul should win every round easily

maul

@silver2467:

Master Silver, you have debated courageously; truly worthy of the archives of the great Vine order.