Darth Maul (TCW) vs Galen Marek

Both Bloodlusted

All EU and movie feats apply

Maul only has Darksaber

Takes place in Hoth

20ft apart

Eh.. 10 feet is pretty generous for Maul. I think he could take it just by destoying Galen up close as quickly as possible. Or Galen stomps with the Force, but the distance makes me think Maul can win.

10 feet? Maul stomps.

Galen.

Actually, Maul should take a solid majority (sans bloodlusted stipulation).

In character, Galen tends to start duels physically. He was being stomped by Shaak Ti, and had trouble with Maris Brood until he used a form on her she was unfamiliar with. Maul should decimate him before he gets a chance to do much about it, given this distance.

How about 20ft apart

@i_like_swords: That was before he could beat Vader.

Now, he'd just hold off Maul till he decimates with the force.

Beat Vader? You mean beat Vader, due to the fact he knew Vader's lightsaber form in and out, and was physically faster than him? (Neither of those advantages being enjoyed here). He isn't holding off anything.

@i_like_swords: Vader is master-like in multiple forms. For Galen to compete with Vader with just above-average dueling is impressive.

Besides, Galen learned his dueling skills from Vader. What you're saying isn't a bad feat for Galen. That means he knows some of Vader's forms and should be able to apply them to this fight.

Not that it would win him the fight, but it should buy him some time to beat down on Maul with the force.

Oh, BTW, Galen's bloodlust is a bit heavier than Maul's. After all, he was taught how to use force rage and is pretty scary when he's bloodlusted.

Yes, but the point you're electing to ignore is that Galen contended with Vader because he knew him in and out. It isn't a feat for Galen. And with him being stomped by Shaak Ti (who is laughably inferior to Vader) and being given trouble by even more laughable duelists, his duel with Vader is evidently either an outlier or circumstantial. And it's the latter.

And Maul learned his dueling skills from Darth Sidious. Want to keep playing this game?

Maul's non-circumstantial dueling feats take a dookie all over Galen's. Maul could finish him in seconds.

@i_like_swords: Yeah but Galen put up a fight with Sidious. :P

On a serious note, Vader had that advantage too. He knows Galen in and out as well because he was the one to teach Starkiller all those things. Neither one of them had the advantage.

Not to mention that Galen still has physically tossed tie fighters, force pushed a falling star destroyer to the ground (which for it's size, takes considerable amount of force to move when it's accelerating at high velocities), has impressive force lightning feats, fought Sidious for a short period of time, and eventually beat Vader handily. And not to mention all the Jedi Masters he's hunted down.

Sorry, but I'm sticking with Galen on this one.

Maul

galen has much more raw force power it would overwhelm maul.

Why would Galen utterly decimate Maul with the Force? This is TFU Galen, not TFU II Starkiller, unless I'm missing something. He might be more powerful, but certainly not the point where he annihilates Maul with the Force instantly.

@106me:

On a serious note, Vader had that advantage too. He knows Galen in and out as well because he was the one to teach Starkiller all those things. Neither one of them had the advantage.

Which is what drew the fight out. Vader usually has the advantage of laughably outclassing Galen as a duelist. but due to the fact they know each other's forms intimately, they could anticipate everything the other was doing. The exact same thing happened with Kenobi and Anakin. Anakin/Vader is a better duelist than either of them, but they met him on even ground because they could anticipate everything the other was going to do. That's what drew the fight out, not Galen's skill. And the fact he's physically faster than Vader at that point (again, not something he has here).

Not to mention that Galen still has physically tossed tie fighters, force pushed a falling star destroyer to the ground (which for it's size, takes considerable amount of force to move when it's accelerating at high velocities), has impressive force lightning feats, fought Sidious for a short period of time, and eventually beat Vader handily. And not to mention all the Jedi Masters he's hunted down.

Sorry, but I'm sticking with Galen on this one.

He skidded about three quarters of one TIE fighter across the ground of a hanger. He guided the Star Destroyer, he didn't pull it off his own merit. It was already crashing. I'm aware of his lightning feats. Sidious was goading Galen for the start of that "fight" and then all Galen did was briefly absorb Sidious' lightning prior to dying. He's never beaten Vader handily in a dueling situation, unless there has been circumstance aiding him. Jedi Masters? Rahm Kota who's only feat is being socked in the jaw by Boba Fett? Paratus, who is utterly featless? Shaak Ti, who stomped him in the dueling portion of their duel and in the Force to begin with, Galen only winning by drawing heavily on his anger? Maris Brood, who only lost to Galen when he switched to a form she was unfamiliar with? Not to mention none of these people are even in the same universe as Maul in terms of dueling skill.

Yes, Galen can wreck Maul with the Force. Because he's a Mary Sue. But 10 feet away, in character, Galen fails to realize a death wish when it's staring him in the face and ends up bisected for a majority. He starts every duel physically, and that will be his downfall. He hasn't fought a duelist near as good as Maul (sans Vader, who he was enjoying two advantages against he lacks here), and any duelists he has fought are either featless, or nowhere near as good as Maul, and all of them either gave him trouble or got the better of him, or he defeated through favourable circumstance.

Feel free, but it'd be wishful thinking at best.

Nowhere did the idea of Vader knowing Galen's form get mentioned in the novel, unless I missed something. All the novel said was that Galen knew Vader's form, so that ends up being another one of those fights that makes no sense.

@i_like_swords: Well Kota did have that Force feat of ripping part of the TIE fighter station out of orbit.. He also did fight in that arena for days against a number of different beings/creatures on Cato Neimodia. But yeah...he's the only one really worth anything and even then.

@wolfrazer: He also got floored in one hit by Boba and wrecked by Vader with Choke.

@shootingnova: Right, I'm just saying though he has done more than just get hit by Boba is what ILS said that was his only feat.

Prolly maul due to distance i think maul would be able to easily clear that 20ft distance gap.

@wolfrazer: He's not that impressive though (except in power). The arena feat is pretty hard to gauge, whereas it's much easier to gauge Boba stomping him.

@shootingnova: @shootingnovaWhy would Galen utterly decimate Maul with the Force? This is TFU Galen, not TFU II Starkiller, unless I'm missing something. He might be more powerful, but certainly not the point where he annihilates Maul with the Force instantly.

ya man not instantly maul isnt a bitch hes a great character but the games lead me to beleive his force powers would make him win.

@shootingnova: True, although considering the body pile that he had up and it looked like he had been fighting for quite some time against different things, I saw an Acklay, hell he fought a Krayt Dragon, Corellian Slice Hounds and some other stuff. But yeah...

Also if wondering about the Krayt Dragon feat..

Tarko-se Stadium Announcement, General Kota's first day in captivity- And first out is the ferocious Krayt Dragon, captured from the desert world of Tatooine. What spirit this beast has!

- Taken from TFU 2 Databank

@wolfrazer: His endurance levels are pretty useless to bring up because we were discussing Kota's skill.

@bloodblunts: TFU Galen was more impressive then his supposed "clone" from TFU2.

@shootingnova: I know hence why I said the last bit didn't matter, was just something I wanted to note, though i'll get rid of that bit. Although him fighting a Krayt Dragon is pretty good.

@wolfrazer: Ah. I thought by "last bit" you were referencing the missing teeth.

No, he isn't. The clone is vastly more powerful. Starkiller managed to erect a barrier that withstood drops of heat comparable to the outer layers of a star, and simultaneously disintegrate 150m portions of a frigate.

The original Galen might be faster/stronger/more skilled, since I haven't read the TFU II novel, so I can't speak for the clone, but my exposure to the aforementioned feat from the clone is enough to tell me that he is even more powerful than the likes of Plagueis by a considerable margin.

@106me: @106me: TFU Galen was more impressive then his supposed "clone" from TFU2.

hell ya i didnt like the clone concept or whatever galen marek was TFU and he was a beast.

@shootingnova: Hmm, was that in the novel? I know that wasn't in the game.

From the game's perspective, TFU2 Galen had struggled more in his fights than TFU1 Galen.

@106me: Yes, it was in the novel.

@106me:

He found a maintenance ladder leading to an air lock and leapt up in two bounds, blowing the inner hatch as he came. He could feel a wild drumming from the far side of the outer door. The ship was moving so fast now that unexposed flesh wouldn't last a microsecond. He would have to rely on a Force shield to keep him safe. A single lapse in concentration would be the end of him.

......

This was where it got difficult. He needed to maintain the Force shield against the sort of heat he might find in the outer layers of a star.

Credit:The Force Unleashed II

@106me: anyone who says someone has am advantage over someone else cuz he knew his style from them training and practicing and dueling together is nuts. They both are familiar with eachother so it balances out and negates the advantage for both. It's just a dumb argument in general nut here specifically. The obi wan anakin fight and bane doing good against kasim r the 2 most common examples I see

@joead624: @thevivas: @shootingnova:

@Thevivas and shootingnova: Thanks.

@joead624: Are you agreeing with me then?

@joead624: It is an advantage for Galen in the sense that it's not something he usually has to bring to an opponent. And illogical as it may be there is no source to confirm Vader being an expert in Galens form. So by that line of thinking Galen did have an advantage, and it didn't balance out.

Regardless, you and others are missing the point. These duels where people have deep, complete foreknowledge of the opponent's fighting style aren't primarily an issue of skill or advantages - it's a means of prolonging the duel. Anakin is more skilled than Obi Wan by a tier, but their duel lasted ages because they could anticipate eachother seamlessly. The samw thing happened when Mace Windu and Sora Bulq - the guys who invented Vaapad together - dueled, it lasted four or more comic pages and only ended when Windu used telekinesis. Where in contrast, when Bulq fought Dooku he was disarmed of a blade in moments, and Dooku and Windu are considered equals. The same applies here - Vader is more skilled than Galen by leaps and bounds, but because Galen knew him in and out, he could anticipate Vader at evert turning, serving to prolong the duel. Which isn't by merit of skill, but of knowledge. Galen was also physically faster than that iteration of Vader, which allowed him to win.

In this fight, he knows nothing about Maul's fighting style besides a two-bit mimicking from proxy, and he has no physical advantages over him whatsoever. Therefore, Maul being more skillful by leaps and bounds and being considerably better physically should allow him to stomp a lightsaber duel in moments.

@i_like_swords: Your basing this off of nothing. Show me where Galen had an advantage over Vader in the novel or the game.

(P.S. I'm still working on that other thread we're in).

Call it whatever you want, the main point stands - Galen did as well as he did because of two factors. He knew Vader's form intimately, allowing him to anticipate Vader's moves (not by merit of skill, but by merit of foreknowledge). And, because he was physically faster than Vader at this point (who has been described as a shell of his former self [Anakin]).

Here it is, from the novel:

Galen knew the intimacies of Vader's refined version of Djem So, a fighting style that incorporated elements of Ataru, Soresu, and Makashi. He had fended off many wild, slashing attacks that would have overwhelmed even an extraordinary Jedi Knight.

The Force Unleashed

And here is evidence that Vader was too physically slow to parry Galen's winning blow:

The lightsabers flashed again-and it was the apprentice who found the chink in the armor that both of them had been waiting for. Vader's lightsaber moved too slowly to block a blow to his chest, allowing the apprentice's blade to slash deeply across his armored throat. Vader staggered backward, gloved hand upraised to the smoking wound.

The Force Unleashed

So, unless you can show me that Galen has intimate knowledge of Darth Maul's lightsaber form, and is physically faster than him (or that Maul is at the same level of speed as pre-ANH Vader..), I don't see why Galen should be able to even remotely contend with a tier 8 duelist.

@i_like_swords: And Vader fended off and defeated Maul in the EU comics, despite not having "intimate knowledge of his style". That's not all it comes down to. And it was shown that Vader wasn't too interested in the fight, seeing as the whole point of letting Galen go in the first place was to collect up all the Rebel leaders in one place so Sid could murder them. Which would've happened on the unfinished Death Star if Galen hadn't warned them off at the last moment.

Galen has "intimate knowledge" of other styles and combat techniques thanks to Proxy who was programmed with the combat styles of numerous Jedi, Obi-Wan included and would actively try to kill Galen during their sessions. Of course Proxy could never be as truly dangerous as the real Obi-Wan or other Jedi Masters, however it can be said that Galen has been exposed to much more than just Vader's Djem So. So trying to act as if Maul's preferred style is some unknown horror to this Garry Stu is just laughable in and of itself.

@shootingnova: I'd have to disagree. Having read both novels, the difference in power between Galen and Starkiller2.0 is relatively minor and the Novel keeps it in question weather or not the original truly died and if the clone is really a clone or just a brainwashed mess, and ultimately SK decided it just didn't effing matter because he still loved his lady friend, still hated Vader, and was going to shove his twin lightsaber's up the Empire's greasy backside.

Galen did change the trajectory of a falling Star Destroyer and it took considerable effort. SK2 did his best to hold together a falling Rebel ship, which was much smaller than that of an ISD, while crashing it towards the planet Kamino's cloning facilities. Both of which took extreme effort and I can't see too much of a difference between the two. Though keeping a ship falling straight might require more concentration, but as pieces broke off it was less mass to keep under control.

Plus SK2 was fighting evenly, even slightly losing to, Vader in their last fight and if it wasn't for plot-intervention by Juno tearing a hole in Vader's much more lightning resistant armor with one of SK2's dropped sabers then Vader may have ended up killing them all. So either SK2's skills are lesser than those of the Original or Vader stopped pussyfooting around and was actually trying to kill him this time around.

I would say that, all in all, that even if SK2 was more powerful than the original Galen, it's not by a large margin. I think it'd be almost negligible overall and only would mark a gradual progression of a persons abilities as opposed to some giant power up.

Maul

@reikai:

And Vader fended off and defeated Maul in the EU comics, despite not having "intimate knowledge of his style". That's not all it comes down to. And it was shown that Vader wasn't too interested in the fight, seeing as the whole point of letting Galen go in the first place was to collect up all the Rebel leaders in one place so Sid could murder them. Which would've happened on the unfinished Death Star if Galen hadn't warned them off at the last moment.

Galen has "intimate knowledge" of other styles and combat techniques thanks to Proxy who was programmed with the combat styles of numerous Jedi, Obi-Wan included and would actively try to kill Galen during their sessions. Of course Proxy could never be as truly dangerous as the real Obi-Wan or other Jedi Masters, however it can be said that Galen has been exposed to much more than just Vader's Djem So. So trying to act as if Maul's preferred style is some unknown horror to this Garry Stu is just laughable in and of itsel

1. A clone of Maul, who defeated Vader in that duel while taunting him, only being killed because he was distracted by the environment, and Vader still impaled himself through his cybernetics in order to do so, which is tantamount to a stalemate. Hardly an appropriate comparison, lol.

2. In this context, it is. That is unless you want to explain to me why Galen was unable to defeat Shaak Ti in a duel (never mind lose to her), or why he had trouble with other duelists who aren't even in the same galaxy as Vader in terms of skill (Rahm Kota, Maris Brood, Paratus)? Galen knew Vader's form intimately - that's why the duel was prolonged, not because of Galen's skill. The source I posted above confirms this.

He had fended off many wild, slashing attacks that would have overwhelmed even an extraordinary Jedi Knight.

Galen, in terms of dueling skill, is far from extraordinary in the grand scheme of things.

3. Vader wasn't too interested in the fight? Right...

Then the apprentice straightened and, with a sweep of his left arm, blew the missiles away. He blocked a savage slash that would have cut him in two and another that would have lifted his head clean from his shoulders. Ducking low, he stabbed for his Master's belly then flicked the tip of his lightsaber upward, hoping to catch the chin of Darth Vader's helmet and spear him through the throat. The red lightsaber blocked the blow, but only barely. They parted for a moment to asses the brief exchange and circle each other warily.

..

Where Darth Vader was strong and relentless, he was fast and sly. And there were ways to fight that didn't involve lightsabers. Loose objects, accelerated to killing speeds by the Force, became projectiles that converged from all directions. Invisible fists clutched for throats or punched with the power of pile drivers. Floors tipped underfoot; severed beams stabbed like javelins; overloaded circuits exploded.

"You are weak," the apprentice said as his former Master launched a second series of bone-crushing blows, each one of which he blocked with elegant precision.

Darth Vader fought brilliantly, never employing anything less than a killing stroke. His intention was lethal. All he needed was one slip, one tiny gap in his opponent's defenses.

Evidently, Vader was nothing short of interested in killing Galen.

4. You're right - Proxy isn't as dangerous as Obi-Wan Kenobi or anyone else he mimicked. In fact, he isn't even on the same planet in terms of threat level. Am I saying Juyo will be a mystery to Galen? No? So what's your point here? Galen doesn't have an intimate knowledge of Maul's fighting style. Maul and every other duelist employs their lightsaber form(s) and other fighting styles in completely different ways. Knowing Juyo isn't the same as knowing Darth Maul, especially if you've been dueling a droid in preparation. What's more, Maul doesn't only employ Juyo - he's also a master of Niman (and Jar'Kai when he has another blade) and numerous unarmed martial arts which he has mastered. He's also shown the ability to throw away fighting strategies in seconds and replace them with news ones (Episode I Journal: Darth Maul), so really, the only thing that's laughable here is the notion that Galen's intimate knowledge of his master's fighting style is something he could also bring into a duel with Darth Maul. The best part is, however, that you have no source to confirm Galen being familiar with Maul's fighting style to any kind of useful capacity.

There's also the fact that Galen isn't faster than Maul (but rather slower), which is an advantage he had over Vader in their fight.

Take the two circumstantial factors from his duel with Vader, and his fights with other combatants who couldn't give Maul a challenge on their best day and his worst (all of which he either lost or had trouble in winning), and it is beyond clear to see that he isn't competing with Maul or any other tier 8 duelist for more than a matter of seconds.

Starkiller tears him apart

Galen stomps.

Galen due to scaling and overtop feats.

Darth Maul never won a single fight. Galen beat Vader so he wins

@nozak:

How not?

He defeated a Padawan, a strong but unskilled Zabrak, and a Mandalorian leader.

TCW hurts Maul tbh, the supplement TCW material doesn’t really give him much of anything. The opponents he’s fought don’t really have much going for them either compared to the ones Galen has fought.

which padawan obi wan or ahsoka. savage opress is trash. weaker than grievous, sometimes get rage boosts when he gets pissed at losing, but overwall he sucks. pre vizsla has no force. so not even a factor.

Starkiller

Lol, people were so keen on lowballing Galen's Vader fight.

OT: