Darth Malgus & Darth Vader vs Obi-Wan Kenobi & Mace Windu

Everyone is morals off.

Battle takes place at the Valley of the Jedi.

He has 10% all stats increased.

I'm already out.

@i_like_swords: Why? Lol.

@penderor: Because the concept of giving Mace Windu an "amp" in battles hurts my head. It's beyond illogical.

@i_like_swords: Star Wars has many ilogicall moments. Just the whole thing that happened in the Chancellor's Office was from the beginning ilogicall.

@penderor: The fight between Windu and Sidious wasn't illogical - giving him an amp in any old battle thread like it's something he's actually capable of attaining is what's illogical. It just wouldn't happen. I don't know how you can give him one by an exact percentage either.. I'd imagine Force augmentation fluxes far too frequently for it to be accurately measured by a percentage, since in this case it's based on emotions, which are impossible to quantify.

@i_like_swords:

1. Mace after realising that Palpatine is the Sith immidietaly started to act. He did not even informed the Yoda. He could have plan something and instead he destroyed the Order.
2. Four Jedi Masters are unable to sense the Palpatine's power even when they are in front of him.
3. Mace Windu, the second Jedi of the Order, after disarming Sidious was waiting for the Jedi KNIGHT to debate with him fate of the Sith (lolz). He wanted his permission or what?
4. Anakin traded whole his life because one idiot told him its a good idea.

Dont tell me about the logic. I added 10% better Mace, because I felt it will balance the teams. If you would give that advantage to Obi, would it satisfy you?

@penderor:

1. When exactly did Mace Windu destroy the Jedi Order?
2. Yes, because Sidious is more powerful than any of them could even imagine and can therefore conceal his Force signature. Palpatine had been concealing himself infront of the likes of Count Dooku and Qui-Gon Jinn well before the events of The Phantom Menace, and has spent decades in front of Jedi like Yoda while keeping his presence hidden. His power was enough to cast a shroud over the Force which dulled the clairvoyance of every Jedi. So why would he have any issue doing so in front of these four?
3. Because Mace Windu respects what Anakin has to say, and realized that he was about to go against the Jedi code infront of another Jedi? Windu isn't a cold blooded lunatic who kills people without consideration for other possibilities.
4. Yeah..... never mind the hundreds of pages in novels, comics, sourcebooks and scripts that detail Anakin's fall to the Dark Side which spanned over his entire life. He just "traded his whole life because one idiot told him it's a good idea". Nailed it.

No, that wouldn't satisfy me, because it's even more illogical.

@i_like_swords:

1. In the moment when he went into Chancellor's Office.
2. Yeah yeah more powerful, blah blah, cannot imagine. Every force sensitive idiot, especially when he earn rank of the Jedi Master should be able to sense SOMETHING from anyone.
3. How he can respect biased person's opinion. Windu isn't lunatic? You would consider OTHER possibilites with SIDIOUS?????
4. My sentence remains untouched.

@penderor:

1. No, he didn't destroy anything. It was a foregone conclusion that the Jedi Order was going to fall, and that Mace Windu could do nothing about it. Everything hinged on Anakin and Sidious, nobody else.
2. Being a Jedi Master can mean nothing in terms of power or skill, otherwise Yarael Poof is more powerful than Anakin Skywalker. It's just a rank. And if any idiot with Force sensitivity could sense the most powerful Sith Lord in the history of the mythos, it would utterly decimate the whole point of the Rule of Two as well as the ability Force Concealmean - which, you guessed, it conceals the users' presence in the Force.
3. Yes, killing Sidious in your opinion is a good idea. But you fail to grasp the severity of such an action for a Jedi. It would entirely defeat the point of what the Jedi stand for, and what thousands of Jedi died for at Windu's command during the clone wars. Windu would logically have an internal struggle about needless waste of life and the foundations of what he's fighting for before killing someone in cold blood. Anakin being a fellow Jedi, the Chosen One, and the witness to his crime, has a pretty decent sway of opinion at this point.
4. Nope, but it's no less false.

We've deviated from the point of this thread severely, so, I'll leave you to it..

Another Wind amp fest...I'm gone

1. Mace was authorized by Yoda to arrest Palpatine.

2. Mace didn't destroy any Order at all. Palpatine had planned for decades that the Order would fall. The only relevant characters were Anakin, Sidious, and Obi-Wan.

3. Prior to the lightning attack, Mace didn't even plan to kill Palpatine because that follow the general Jedi code. Once the Lightning ensued, Mace did plan to kill Palpatine.

4. Anakin traded his whole life because one "idiot" told him to? Are you serious? Get that nonsense out of here. Palpatine had planned since TPM to convert Anakin, and every single conversation between them in every single film, comic, novel, junior novel, TV show and what not was carefully designed to shift Anakin towards the dark side so as to allow Palpatine to finally christen him as Darth Vader.

THANK YOU.

It irks me to the ninth level when people say "Anakin turned over to the darkside at the drop of a hat!" and I'm like....seriously?

Even going by just the movies, he was already being pulled along by Palpatine, nevermind the fact that his mother died in his arms, then time passed which should be taken into consideration a little, even then you had Palps pulling Anakin along even more and more.

It just baffles me really people say he turned to the darkside at the drop of a hat.

This is all Mace Windu's fault.

Mace haters!!!!!

@i_like_swords: Relevant

@wolfrazer: Lol

I wont debate it since, I know I wont change your opinion so...

Anyway since Mace Windu hate is strong with this thread and ILS consider its too strong advantage and without it fight will be more fair, I am removing his 10% bonus.

Team 2 .

Obi-Wan Because he's name rhymes to yes he can.

Windu because he's black .

@penderor:

I wont debate it since, I know I wont change your opinion so...

Or because you lack an argument.

Anyway since Mace Windu hate is strong with this thread and ILS consider its too strong advantage and without it fight will be more fair, I am removing his 10% bonus.

And now you're putting words in my mouth. I don't hate Mace Windu, I just hate the nonsense his super-fans subject his character to. And I didn't even say anything about it being too much of an advantage, I just said that any talk of Windu having an amp is illogical. What, because of a one-time instance of his abilities being amplified, it now has to become a major character trait that everyone discusses in every Mace Windu thread? Nonsense.

@i_like_swords:

1. He made their fall faster.
2. Again its only logicall that when you KNOW you are going to fight a Sith Lord its different, since that person shouldnt be able to cloud himself properly in this moment.
3. Windu wanted to kill him anyway, so he just given time to Anakin. Also, I never really seen a rule where is said, that Jedi MUST to spare a Sith.
4. That Novels, comics and scripts wont changed the basic idea. The Jedi Order released him from slavery, gave him a power to change things in the Galaxy, gave him friends for like 13 years of his life and he destroyed it in one second.

@penderor:

1. Not really. If anything he prolonged it by attempting to capture Palpatine.
2. Why would it be different, and more importantly, why does it matter what you find illogical when the common status quo ever since TPM has been that Palpatine can conceal himself from all Jedi? You don't define the logic, the creators do.
3. He was debating with himself if he was going to kill Palpatine, and then when he decided he was going to he wasn't expecting his arm to be cut off by his fellow Jedi. More importantly, it's not like he (in his mind) was strapped for time considering Palpatine had taken on the form of a weak old man, and he wouldn't expect Anakin to dismember him. Again, nothing illogical here.
4. If by one second you mean a couple decades of manipulation, and mental trauma, then sure, Anakin destroyed everything he had as a Jedi in "one second".

As for the thread, Team 1. Either Malgus or Vader can exercise a heavy power advantage over Obi-Wan. Vader can have a prolonged lightsaber duel with either, although Malgus is a weak link in terms of dueling. But considering he's such a Force-based combatant it only makes sense for him and Vader to attain victory through offensive Force attacks.

@i_like_swords:

1. You cannot prove that Palpatine was about to execute the Order 66 when Windu came in. For a while you defend him and then offend him.
2. Lol? So Mace Windu dont know how the Dark Side feels? Tin, Kolar, Fisto have no idea how to sense a person strong in the Dark Side right? They are just walking machines killing battle droids.
3. Why to wait to kill him? Mace lost three friends in that duel, since Sidious massacred them. He also already knew that he was controlling the Republic and it was only logicall to assume he will destroy the Jedi. He could have think about this in the moment when he was going in the office.
4. It was Anakin's choice to take whole this time the flattery from the Palpatine.

@penderor: This isn't even worth my time at this point.

1. Do you realize just how minute and insignificant this point is you're trying to get across? Mace Windu had eff all to do with exactly when Order 66 was coming into play. Everything that happened, including Anakin's fall to the Dark Side, was planned meticulously by Palpatine over the course of most of his lifetime. If you really want to kid yourself into believing that Mace Windu hastened or partly caused the fall of the Jedi then that's your delusion to enjoy. Try picking up a piece of EU for once instead speaking out of utter ignorance.
2. This is beyond abhorrent. Let this sink into your skull for a second. Sidious - powerful. Force concealment - Force power. Sidious uses Force concealment on weaker beings - they can't sense him. It is not at all difficult to grasp, you're just being stubborn because you can't afford to lose what little face you have left on the matter (if any).
3. Right, because it's totally the Jedi way to lash out in revenge after someone close dies. Screw being calm and all that nonsense, Mace should have gotten angry that his three fellow Jedi died and tried to slaughter Palpatine like a normal Jedi. And you're right there too. No need to put him on trial or take him into custody. No sir, that's not what Jedi do. They just cut people in half in cold blood. How could I be so mistaken.
4. You're missing the point entirely, as usual. You seem to think it was as simple as ABC that Anakin fell to the Dark Side. How about you read Labyrinth of Evil, Revenge of the Sith, and Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader, and get back to me. That's over a thousand pages detailing Anakin's fall to the Dark Side, by the way.

I'm now done. This discussion has been a waste of time, inane, and completely mind numbing. The points you're trying valiantly to pass for a quarter decent argument are so miniscule and useless that I shouldn't have bothered addressing them in the first place. Anyone who has enough common sense to concede a point when they're obviously wrong, or has at least watched the Star Wars movies, wouldn't be spouting the nonsense you are right now. You get an A for effort, but you don't even get a grade for anything else.

@i_like_swords: 1 Show me that proof. I want to see that Mace did not get involved into Oder 66 start. Because otherwise everything is poiting against him and even Sidious says it to Anakin. So your tons of EU are fine, but the shame is, that you are unable to watch the movie.

2.Ok if Sidious is so strong that he can just cloud himself from all these weak Jedi, why simple didnt went one night into Jedi Temple and assassinate them all? With his speed, he could have killed them all in 10-15 minutes. Instead, he was waiting like 13 years for it.

3. You are twisting my words to be more fitting into your arguments. I never said it was about the revenge, but about the fact, that if Sidious was able to kill these three with easy, then there was no reason to let Windu fight so long.

4. I bet, that even if I would have read it, the basic idea would remain the same.

@penderor: Couple of things I can't resist addressing just because of how ridiculous they are.

2. You're seriously asking me why Sidious didn't just walk into the Jedi temple and slaughter 10,000+ Jedi in about ten minutes? Have you thrown the rest of your marbles out the window? Not only is he completely incapable of carrying that out (and I shouldn't need to tell you why), but it serves no purpose in the Sith grand plan. The whole point was to eradicate the Jedi completely, while bringing the Sith into absolute power gradually. Even if we go by your ridiculous scenario, Sidious still wouldn't have been able to make the Jedi seem like traitors to the Republic like he did, thus tarnishing everything they stood for.

4. Maybe if you tried doing a bit of research instead of vehemently arguing nonsense out of complete ignorance, you'd change your mind. But hey, if putting out nonsensical garbage out of a lack of knowledge is your thing then I won't stop you.

@i_like_swords:

I gotta disagree with Anakin's fall to the dark side being Palpatine's plan ...

Sidious had no control over Anakin , it was Anakin his own history / mind that made him fall to the dark side .

Yes Sidious played a role in it , but not the biggest part .

Make a Jedi fall, one cannot; beyond

even Lord Sidious, this is. Chose this, Skywalker did

( Yoda against Kenobi )

Revenge Of The Sith Novel .

@i_like_swords: 2. I am dont see how one Sith killing whole Jedi Order is less Grand than planning to be destroyed by the Republic. Plus, yes in Star Wars such slaughter would make a sense.

4. No reason to reply on this. You telling the same thing over and over again.

Team 2.

@i_like_swords: I think mace helped secure the fall of the jedi. He at one point sensed a plot to destroy the jedi, then fell right into it. Sidious needed the jedi to make am attempt on his life to convince the Senate and the galaxy that they were traitors. He could have killed most of them with order 66 regardless but they would still be considered good guys in public opinion and that was the true problem for sidious. I think they should have went public with the information or just did nothing knowing that Senate pressure may force Palpatine top end the war. Either way marching in was a mistake that cost the republic dearly and anyway I think team 1 wins

@i_like_swords: @penderor: @beingfatissupercool: @erkan12 :*facepalm*

This is a gigantic spite thread.

@spartankobe: silver shooting nova and I like swords are the 3 ppl who live discrediting ppl the most rather than prove their own point. In that order. I usually agree with shooting nova on all issues somehow even tho ppl say silver knows the most. Haven't seen silver post in recent threads tho. Who u thinks the most spiteful on these?

@joead624: *sighs*

Just forget it. You obviously don't know that I'm joking.

For real now, I think this is a 5/10 for both teams. Stalemate.

@spartankobe: u may have been joking but those 2 were going at each other I call that spite why would u be joking when u said that

@i_like_swords: lol come on uk it's true. U 3 go point by point proving someone wrong more often than anyone else. I can't watch these posted videos I gotta be very careful about how I use my limited mobile data

Nvm 9 seconds I cam do.

@joead624: Breaking someone's argument down point for point is "discrediting people rather than proving your own point"?

Breaking down someone elses argument is half the battle. And if you're suggesting we all lack the ability to put out our own individual arguments, then.. well.. I can't really find a meme ridiculous enough to convey how I feel about that. I think I'll just leave you to it. Have fun destroying intelligent discussion.

No, I don't live off discrediting people. Discrediting arguments that one finds incorrect is part of debating to begin with, and yes, I do prove my points.

Stop pretending to be an authority on other people, thank you very much.

@shootingnova: @i_like_swords: Go off bruhs. Lol

I dunno who Malgus is but I think I Obi Wan can beat Vader. I assume this is Obi-Wan in his prime since there are no threads with Luke Skywalker when he was an old man

@shootingnova: never said u guys don't have good points but do u not do that often? U far more than I like swords. I'm no authority on u, i just be eyes and notice things. I credited ur accuracy so calm down

@joead624: You make discrediting others sound like a bad thing. It's part of a debate, to discredit other people's points. You'll find that in other debaters in the forums, not just Silver, ILS and I.

Other top debaters do discredit other points. That's a necessity to prove that you're right and somebody else is wrong.

And there's nothing for me to calm. I was never angry to begin with.

This.

@penderor:

I don't think Sidious needed them to make an attempt on his life because he didn't got any evidence from the Windu fight and he still convinced the senate any ways ( unless there were camera's or something but i doubt he want the senate to know he's a sith lord ) .

So if Windu didn't go into that room to arrest him it would be the jedi's word against Palpatine's word , and Palpatine would just do the order 66 any ways, and then send the troopers to the jedi temple with Windu in it , and then lie to the senate they were trying to assassinate him and that's why he ordered to whip out the jedi's .

But i think he waited this long because he wanted Anakin as his Apprentice and he didn't want to take a risk of getting Anakin against him i don't know ?

Palpatine told Anakin he was a sith lord , and Palpatine knew this was a risk if he told Anakin about it .

Palpatine from then on had NO idee of what was coming .

He just took a gamble by telling Anakin , but he couldn't know if Anakin was gonna be with him or against him .

If Anakin wouldn't join him, he would just do order 66 any ways and lie to the senate, and take over power any ways .

So Sidious was ready to do order 66 from the moment he told Anakin he was a sith lord probably .

All Sidious waited for is Anakin to turn to his side before killing the jedi is what i think , so Windu played no important part in Sidious ordering order 66 .

Nope, I'm not doing this. I'm keeping my brain cells this time.

@beingfatissupercool: So you are saying that Senate would ignore the fact, that Jedi would be all executed for uh....havin arguments with the Chancellor?

Also, if they would accuse him for being a Sith Lord, everything would have changed.

@penderor:

No, Palpatine could have told the senate ( even if it is a lie ) they tried to kill him (after he whipped out the temple and ordered order 66) and it would have the exact same result as what happened now .

There were no evidences when Windu tried to kill Palpatine so it might of just not happened , so Palpatine had no proof and yet he ordered 66 ,and attacked the jedi temple .

So Windu trying to kill him didn't make any difference as there were no evidences / witnesses .

Ah good, they're fighting with each other now.