#1 Posted by reikai (4237 posts) - - Show Bio

Lords of the past against agents of the future. The tainted remains of Ruusan the field of this conflict. There are no armies of droids or agents hidden and ready to spring forth traps. Only two shuttles that had carried their occupants to the appointed battleground.

Darth Imperius, Lord of the Dark Council, head of the pyramid of ancient knowledge. The Heir of Kallig and Tulak Horde. Binder of the Dead. Dual-bladed saber in his grasp, the masked Dark Lord proceeds into battle, accompanied by the Emperor's Wrath.

Sith Pureblood. Female. Heavy and strong, with blazing lightsabers in each hand. A Force to be reckoned with, the sole enforcer of the Emperor's Will, whom not even the Dark Council can command. The last descendant of Ragnos (my bit). With skin the color of bright blood and eyes of a burning amber, she heads into battle, without fear or mercy.

Dooku and Ventress await, no longer allies save in the joining to save their own hides from Sith Lords from the past. With curved lightsaber in hand, the aged Sith Lord stands ready with the last of the Nightsisters, her twin sabers ready to clash and prove herself the better.

With 3500yrs of separation, will that be the edge that Dooku and Ventress can use to win? Or will that gap in knowledge of the past be their undoing? There is only one certainty here; Not even the Dead will rest in peace.

#2 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1995 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova

Any thoughts on this one? Your the only one I could think to ask about this.

#3 Edited by ShootingNova (17101 posts) - - Show Bio

This isn't a good matchup. The Wrath and Kallig (if you wanted a "Darth" name, it would be "Darth Nox", most likely, not Darth Imperius). It's too ambiguous what their direct feats are. They have feats such as defeating others, but we don't have any direct feats.

Kallig > Ventress in Force power, but not immensely.Ventress has much better saber feats.

Dooku > Wrath in virtually everything in terms of feats.If the Wrath prefers Djem So, he gets an advantage in saber combat.

Honestly though, this is a poor matchup. If there is any form of novelization for SW: TOR, that's where we'll get the most direct feats for Kallig and the Wrath. Until then, this is a fairly ambiguous fight and I can only offer my opinion on what we know currently, which is not enough.

#4 Posted by reikai (4237 posts) - - Show Bio

Nox is the title given to a Dark Side aligned Inquisitor. Occulus for Light Side and Imperius is for Neutral Alignment. When concerning the Sith Empire, the title of Imperius has a better ring to it.

There are several SWTOR novels. Revan, Deception, Fatal Alliance and Annihilation. As well as the SWTOR mini-comic series. Eldon Ax in "Fatal Alliance" was an Apprentice to a Lord and she could defect both Force attacks and Blaster attacks with a Force Shield. Much like how it was to be shown by the Sith Inquisitor.

But here we'll be talking about Imperius and the Wrath. They are the two Sith "Heroes" of the Empire who have accomplished more than any other Sith in their time. Together, these two, along with Cipher 9 and The Mandalorian, were able to go up against and defeat the likes of Revan Reborn, and even Darth Malgus, who was one of the greatest sith of his era and had become one with the Dark Side.

I can say you greatly underestimate the abilities of these Sith and their stories are quite epic. Imperius is not only heir to a great Sith Lord, but also has the unique and rare talent of Force Walking. This talent and ritual enables him to bind Force Ghosts and use their strength as his own.

To combat the degenerate and mind damaging effects of housing multiple Force Ghosts, he had journeyed to Belsavis and, through ancient Rakatan technology, had his entire body reconstructed, becoming even more powerful and resilient, easily capable of dealing with the immense power of the ghosts. From there on Voss he learned a ritual to heal his mind and gained mastery over the Ghosts that sought to drive him mad.

Imperius has defeated a number of powerful Sith and Jedi, including Darth Thanaton who was powerful in his own right and a member of the Dark Council. But against the unified power of Imperius, it seemed almost laughable at how easily Thanaton was dispatched.

Best to start at about 6:30 in.

If you haven't played SWTOR and don't wanna ruin the ending for yourselves, don't watch. And all this is just Imperius. The Wrath is just as impressive. And I don't mean Darth Scourge.

#5 Edited by ShootingNova (17101 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: I perfectly know what TOR is, and I have read the novels. Tell me, please, how does Fatal Alliance, Deceived, Revan and so on tell us about Kallig and the Wrath?

I know perfectly well who the Wrath is, also. Scourge's betrayal to the Emperor asked for a new Wrath, and an unnamed (as of yet) Sith Warrior ascended to the Emperor's side as his new Wrath.

As a Sith, I would like to think "Darth Nox" would be the best to call him/her. Especially considering Kallig is a Sith Inquisitor. If you don't want to speculate, call him/her "Kallig", since he/she is the descendant of Aloysius Kallig.

That, and I know everything they have done. Except Thanaton/Baras lack good feats. Thanaton has killed a person with Lightning before, but that took a surprisingly long amount of time (not actually long, just longer than usual) and that person was just a regular person with no Force defenses.

#6 Edited by reikai (4237 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: I perfectly know what TOR is, and I have read the novels. Tell me, please, how does Fatal Alliance, Deceived, Revan and so on tell us about Kallig and the Wrath?

You asked about SWTOR novels and I just said the ones I knew existed. What they do is help set the Power of the era. Malgus and others are by no means weak, however the Story in SWTOR places the Main Figures operated by the Players as right along or above such legendary figures. Such as the Consular becoming the Barsen'thor and was stated to be more powerful in the Force at the age of Four than their master was at Fifteen.

A figure who shared such similar trait was, in fact, Vitiate who had actually killed and driven people mad with the Force at that age. All of these figures, including the Jedi Knight, perform extraordinary deeds during their Stories.

Now, leading on the line of power. Like I said before, Eldon Ax could stop a blaster burst (like a hand cannon) to the abdomen with a Force Shield, doing nothing more than knocking the wind out of her, and she was considered an Apprentice at the time, and she was doing things that Jedi in the Prequel Era could not. This indicates that Force Techniques were more prevalent and more widely known in the Old Republic as opposed to the Galactic Republic millennia later. Imperius and Wrath are no exceptions in this.

As a Sith, I would like to think "Darth Nox" would be the best to call him/her. Especially considering Kallig is a Sith Inquisitor. If you don't want to speculate, call him/her "Kallig", since he/she is the descendant of Aloysius Kallig

However, as I said, Nox is just the Dark Side path. Being Sith does not necessarily mean you're just a raging evil psycho. And being an Inquisitor does more depict Intelligence and Cunning over sheer ruthlessness. I call him Imperius because that was how I played that character. Though I still made a Female to be Darth Nox with the Dark Side path.

But those're all personal choices. For this, I chose Imperius because that is less likely to be confused with someone purely Dark who just falls into the "angry dark side rawr!" pit that they all seem to. It's also becomes it more accurate fits to work against Dooku who had been trained as a Jedi previously.

That, and I know everything they have done. Except Thanaton/Baras lack good feats. Thanaton has killed a person with Lightning before, but that took a surprisingly long amount of time (not actually long, just longer than usual) and that person was just a regular person with no Force defenses.

Thanaton did pull a win over Exal Kressh, who was formerly the apprentice of Vitiate, but escaped when he invaded her mind and tried to make her the first of his 'Children'. She is by no means weak either, and Thanaton did have to escape her during their first encounter. Thanaton has shown great foresight and saber skill during the comics, which took place about 30yrs before the players story begins.

Thanaton had learned Force Rituals and techniques during this time as indicated, as he quite easily beats Imperius during their first fight. However, the 2nd time wasn't lucky for either of them. But Thanaton still survived getting blasted back with the untamed power of multiple Force Ghosts. We also see that, Sith like Thanaton and a few others, can Levitate themselves or even fly somewhat. An ability that is only ever seen during the Galactuc Republic era in the "Mortis" episode of TCW by the three Force Wielders; The Father, The Son and The Daughter.

At most other Jedi/Sith do during that time is slow their falls so they don't kill themselves. And as we see during the final encounter, Thanaton is using more powerful Force Abilities than Dooku or Ventress have ever beheld. And they did nothing to Imperius. This was after effectively taking on an defeating a small army of Sith and Sith Cyborgs under Thanaton's command during the Kaggath on Corellia.

I'll also point out that for both Imperius and Wrath, some of the first things they ever had to do during training on Korriban involved killing giant, bloodthirsty, force resistant Terentatek's. And Imperius had to face down Khem-val, a Force Resistant Dashade who'd served Tulak Horde. Wrath had to take out ancient Assassins left behind by Naga Sadow. Nevermind that the Wrath had to later kill the Emperor's Voice on Voss, who was being controlled by Sel-Makor.

As far as Darth Baras is concerned, according to the other Dark Council members, with his strength up he is almost invincible and may have been considered one of the most powerful Sith on the Council at the time. However, Wrath's power was greater and Baras' strength couldn't compare and once his invulnerability had worn out, he was doomed. Not even the DC members who were present would interfere with the Emperor's Wrath. Even if that wasn't out of fear of the Wrath's abilities, but what going against the Wrath would mean.

I won't really get into the World Stories going on in SWTOR. Annihilation pretty much covered those while trying not to touch too much on the Class Stories, since how those played out where up to each individual player. But no matter how you look at it, any of the Class Story figures are incredibly gifted and powerful, skilled and trained beyond most anyone you can think of.

And I'll gladly replay both storylines for their sheer epicness.

#7 Edited by ShootingNova (17101 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai:

You asked about SWTOR novels and I just said the ones I knew existed. What they do is help set the Power of the era. Malgus and others are by no means weak, however the Story in SWTOR places the Main Figures operated by the Players as right along or above such legendary figures. Such as the Consular becoming the Barsen'thor and was stated to be more powerful in the Force at the age of Four than their master was at Fifteen.

No, I know of the novels. I was asking for novelizations of the game itself.

I am well aware of the third Barsen'thor being attested to be (at four) stronger in the Force than Yuan Par at fifteen, yet Yuan Par is more of a scholar and archaeologist, and she has featless. This really doesn't have any relevance with this topic, anyways, so please don't drive threads off-topic as you usually love to.

A figure who shared such similar trait was, in fact, Vitiate who had actually killed and driven people mad with the Force at that age. All of these figures, including the Jedi Knight, perform extraordinary deeds during their Stories.

Killing featless beings off-panel doesn't demonstrate anything. On-top of that, Vitiate > Wrath and Kallig.

Now, leading on the line of power. Like I said before, Eldon Ax could stop a blaster burst (like a hand cannon) to the abdomen with a Force Shield, doing nothing more than knocking the wind out of her, and she was considered an Apprentice at the time, and she was doing things that Jedi in the Prequel Era could not. This indicates that Force Techniques were more prevalent and more widely known in the Old Republic as opposed to the Galactic Republic millennia later. Imperius and Wrath are no exceptions in this.

You cannot use other being's feats (even if they are supposedly inferior) as a substitute for another. Again, you are forcing the thread off-topic, however it was in the Rise of the Empire era that we saw the most powerful (and probably most knowledgeable) Sith and the second most powerful Jedi emerge, as well as being such as Plagueis, Tenebrous, and so on forth who supersede the Sith/Jedi of the Old Republic era.

However, as I said, Nox is just the Dark Side path. Being Sith does not necessarily mean you're just a raging evil psycho. And being an Inquisitor does more depict Intelligence and Cunning over sheer ruthlessness. I call him Imperius because that was how I played that character. Though I still made a Female to be Darth Nox with the Dark Side path.

I was saying nothing about them raging. Deception, dark cunning, and so forth are all associated with the dark side. You playing the Sith Inquisitor in one fashion does not draw canon in that direction. I could have played the Jedi Knight as an evil, dark side one. Are you going to consider that as well?

But those're all personal choices. For this, I chose Imperius because that is less likely to be confused with someone purely Dark who just falls into the "angry dark side rawr!" pit that they all seem to. It's also becomes it more accurate fits to work against Dooku who had been trained as a Jedi previously.

Again, see above. Dooku fell to the dark side completely, and so he never became some neutral grey Jedi, nor did he ever get stuck in between the light and dark sides.

Thanaton did pull a win over Exal Kressh, who was formerly the apprentice of Vitiate, but escaped when he invaded her mind and tried to make her the first of his 'Children'. She is by no means weak either, and Thanaton did have to escape her during their first encounter. Thanaton has shown great foresight and saber skill during the comics, which took place about 30yrs before the players story begins.

Absolutely worthless. Kressh wouldn't have learned much from a being paranoid of getting overthrown, surpassed or killed, and she didn't have any good feats.

Thanaton had learned Force Rituals and techniques during this time as indicated, as he quite easily beats Imperius during their first fight. However, the 2nd time wasn't lucky for either of them. But Thanaton still survived getting blasted back with the untamed power of multiple Force Ghosts. We also see that, Sith like Thanaton and a few others, can Levitate themselves or even fly somewhat. An ability that is only ever seen during the Galactuc Republic era in the "Mortis" episode of TCW by the three Force Wielders; The Father, The Son and The Daughter.

Learning rituals and techniques which are inapplicable are worthless. The fact that the Inquisitor lost in the first encounter is a sign of the Inquisitor's lack of power at that stage, not Thanaton's immense strength. Once again, these spirits are practically featless, so why are you mentioning them?

I can only laugh at asininity of the last part of this section. Not only have several other beings already levitated and "flew" (ranging from Dooku to Dace Diath), but this is practically worthless and doesn't show power at all.

At most other Jedi/Sith do during that time is slow their falls so they don't kill themselves. And as we see during the final encounter, Thanaton is using more powerful Force Abilities than Dooku or Ventress have ever beheld. And they did nothing to Imperius. This was after effectively taking on an defeating a small army of Sith and Sith Cyborgs under Thanaton's command during the Kaggath on Corellia.

And yet again, you mention things you have no knowledge of. Why should I respond to this nonsense when you lack the knowledge on both teams in this fight? For that matter, why did you even create this when you:

1. Don't know anything about one side.

2. Supposedly make this look like a stomp in one team's favour, and on top of that, is due to your own ignorance?

I'll also point out that for both Imperius and Wrath, some of the first things they ever had to do during training on Korriban involved killing giant, bloodthirsty, force resistant Terentatek's. And Imperius had to face down Khem-val, a Force Resistant Dashade who'd served Tulak Horde. Wrath had to take out ancient Assassins left behind by Naga Sadow. Nevermind that the Wrath had to later kill the Emperor's Voice on Voss, who was being controlled by Sel-Makor.

Khem Val had just gotten out of stasis. Not only that, but in terms of on-panel feats, Val is extremely lacking.

And as usual, you have no sense of context. The Wrath killing Vitiate's host because Vitiate allowed him means nothing. Wrath only beat Sel Makor using Vitiate's body, but that has context as well.

As far as Darth Baras is concerned, according to the other Dark Council members, with his strength up he is almost invincible and may have been considered one of the most powerful Sith on the Council at the time. However, Wrath's power was greater and Baras' strength couldn't compare and once his invulnerability had worn out, he was doomed. Not even the DC members who were present would interfere with the Emperor's Wrath. Even if that wasn't out of fear of the Wrath's abilities, but what going against the Wrath would mean.

Speech means nothing. Baras is cunning and conniving, but lacks any good feats.

I won't really get into the World Stories going on in SWTOR. Annihilation pretty much covered those while trying not to touch too much on the Class Stories, since how those played out where up to each individual player. But no matter how you look at it, any of the Class Story figures are incredibly gifted and powerful, skilled and trained beyond most anyone you can think of.

Look, I know SW: TOR well, I've played it, I've read up on its lore, I know the beings in it and what they can do. There's not enough on them for now.

And I'll gladly replay both storylines for their sheer epicness.

Stop dragging threads off-topic without purpose. You already lack sufficient information to make judgement on this battle, and now you draw it in random directions aimlessly.

#8 Edited by JediXMan (30608 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually did not recognize "Darth Imperius" at first; I've only seen him referred to as Darth Nox. I believe Nox is his canon name; I'd assume that the DS ending is canon for the Sith, after all.

Still, I don't get the hype, and yes I've played the game. At best, they might be stronger than Asajj, but they are not beating Dooku, especially not in terms of lightsaber combat, which is the Wrath's preferred style of fighting.

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#9 Edited by ShootingNova (17101 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: I know. Canonically, there is no name yet, so I would refer to him/her as "Kallig" because he/she is the descendant of Aloysius Kallig.

#10 Edited by reikai (4237 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova said:

No, I know of the novels. I was asking for novelizations of the game itself.

The SWTOR books are novelizations of the game timelines. Revan is a prequel to it, Deception tells the story of the Sacking of Coruscant and the Treaty of Coruscant, Fatal Alliance occurs within the 10yr cold war before the beginning of the Player Stories, and Annihilation tells us what has happened so far within the galaxy that the Players are engaged in.

You're looking for Specific Novel about the Class Stories, and you're not going to find that, because it's unnecessary. We have their stories by Playing them, they are written and scripted. The only things that change are parts in the middle that occur between the beginning and the end of the current story. Who you kill and how you build your alignment. Ultimately all of their feats and abilities remain the same.

I am well aware of the third Barsen'thor being attested to be (at four) stronger in the Force than Yuan Par at fifteen, yet Yuan Par is more of a scholar and archaeologist, and she has featless. This really doesn't have any relevance with this topic, anyways, so please don't drive threads off-topic as you usually love to.

And yet, I have seen many cases of people claiming all PT Jedi are superluminal, despite the lack of feats and evidence to support it. This is not what I am doing. However, one does know that you don't become a Master Jedi by being useless. Becoming a Master is a feat in itself, if not a big one.

We're also aware of battles she has fought during the war and what they did on Malachor Three, which resulted in the loss of Parakans Tark, who would eventually return as the Sith Lord Vivicar to exact his revenge while under the control of the spirit of Terrak Morrhage. Whom, as we know, the Consular defeats.

You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss these things as 'off-topic'. In fact, each of the class stories has some cross over with each other, and the Agent storyline explains much of that.

Killing featless beings off-panel doesn't demonstrate anything. On-top of that, Vitiate > Wrath and Kallig.

He killed his Mother when he was 4 and his father years later. At this you're just nitpicking. 99% of every character in SW is Featless, which includes the majority of the Jedi and Sith Orders, and yet I still hear people spouting such garbage that all Jedi can move lightspeed and other nonsense. So don't go barking about "they're featless". There is an Average level we have seen for each Ranking in their systems, and that's enough to judge by.

You cannot use other being's feats (even if they are supposedly inferior) as a substitute for another. Again, you are forcing the thread off-topic, however it was in the Rise of the Empire era that we saw the most powerful (and probably most knowledgeable) Sith and the second most powerful Jedi emerge, as well as being such as Plagueis, Tenebrous, and so on forth who supersede the Sith/Jedi of the Old Republic era.

There was no guesswork there. Eldon Ax could not burn out a Hex-Droid with Force Lightning, despite her best attempts. Darth Chratis, her master, could and did so to several of them at the same time. And Hex-Droids make every machine during the Clone Wars look like garbage. And Chratis was still below the members of the Dark Council.

Similarly, Jedi Padawan Shigar Konshi couldn' TK crush a Hex-Droid, yet Grand Master Satele Shan did so quite easily and tossed them around like nothing. This gives us a clear understanding of the differences in power between the Apprentices and their Masters. And we also know that the one who gave Satele the most trouble was Darth Malgus.

As for the "most powerful sith/jedi", that is just purely false. They don't supersede anyone or anything. That is merely the work of one writer who didn't work with the writing staff of other teams, especially not those with BioWare building the SWTOR Era. It's an utterly and completely meaningless statement. Nvm that such Claims get retconned all the time. They still say Vader was the 2nd most powerful Sith ever, and yet we have many arguments of figures who can top him. And then others saying Yoda was the most powerful Jedi before Luke appeared.

Any line that states "this char is the most powerful" is just a line of pure BS and the only time it worked was for Sidious and Luke because George Lucas wanked them so that no one else could ever be allowed to make a character more powerful than his own.

I was saying nothing about them raging. Deception, dark cunning, and so forth are all associated with the dark side. You playing the Sith Inquisitor in one fashion does not draw canon in that direction. I could have played the Jedi Knight as an evil, dark side one. Are you going to consider that as well?

DS Inquisitor follows more the line of sadism, torture and torment over Cunning. It follows the same profiling of most sith of just enjoying pain and suffering for that alone. Cunning and ruthless intelligence is more about using Deceit and Words to manipulate others to get what you want, over just zapping them with lightning and forcing them to obey you.

A lot of people overly assume that the Dark Side is the "Canon" path of Sith. That's not true, and there are several instances within the games story where a number of Light Sided Sith have appeared. One of the greatest things about SWTOR is, of course, making your Own Choices. Those that just go pure dark like "I'm the bad guy, herp!" tend not to understand this.

I chose to use the Imperius name because that is closer to how I feel the Inquisitor will end up. Still kill those he feels needs to die, but lets others live that can be Manipulated and more useful to him Alive rather than dead. To truly be in power without just going blindly down the path of the Dark Side. But again, that's my Personal choice. And that's what I'm using for this.

But as I've said before, regardless of the Path you chose, the end result and abilities of each of the Class heroes don't really change.

Absolutely worthless. Kressh wouldn't have learned much from a being paranoid of getting overthrown, surpassed or killed, and she didn't have any good feats.

We're talking about Vitiate, not Darth Sidious. (Hah). Exal Kressh actually learned a fair bit and received a bit of power from Vitiate himself when he sought to dominate her mind. She tries to fight him off, but his voice still reaches her and it is what makes her crazy. Exal also reflected Thanaton's lightning back at him with fair ease and was more powerful than he was at the time, forcing him to flee. The only reason he was even sent after Exal Kressh was because the Dark Council didn't care if he succeeded or not.

Again, see above. Dooku fell to the dark side completely, and so he never became some neutral grey Jedi, nor did he ever get stuck in between the light and dark sides.

Not what I was saying. I was saying he wasn't so blinded by the Dark Side that he couldn't think straight as is most often the case. And he doesn't choose to just murder everything in sight either. He is calm and patient and shows restraint when needed. That is the point I was trying to make. I chose Imperius was Neutral because that shows the level of Patience and Restraint necessary for this, and not just "Lightning Hands!" everything.

Learning rituals and techniques which are inapplicable are worthless. The fact that the Inquisitor lost in the first encounter is a sign of the Inquisitor's lack of power at that stage, not Thanaton's immense strength. Once again, these spirits are practically featless, so why are you mentioning them?

Actually it shows the Inquisitor's lack of knowledge over power. Thanaton has had 30yrs to build both and he was still afraid of what Imperius would become, hence the need to see him killed. And yet despite this, Thanaton didn't understand the connection between the Dead and Imperius. Even so he got through Imperius' shield at the time and killed him, however, the Ghosts also kept Imperius alive at the same time. This would actually show that Imperius cannot be killed by normal means, or at least your only choice is decapitation.

As for ghosts, lemme see. They were corrupting and controlling scores of people entering the Dark Temple and making them kill anyone who drew near and gave even non-force users the ability to use the Force and were messing with the heads of other Sith Lords who'd entered the Temple and couldn't be hurt by normal means, even with the Force. Which the Inquisitor figured out the hard way when Kallig slapped the crap out of you during that first trip in.

And you know being "featless" doesn't mean you don't have power. After all, Vitiate did take 100 "featless" Sith lords, used them in a ritual and killed an entire planet absorbing the Life Force of all the millions of life forms on it, including those Sith Lords, to make himself Immortal and become the most powerful being in the galaxy for the next 1500yrs whose entire plan is to consume all life in the galaxy and become a God.

I can only laugh at asininity of the last part of this section. Not only have several other beings already levitated and "flew" (ranging from Dooku to Dace Diath), but this is practically worthless and doesn't show power at all.

Jumping High =/= flying. I have yet to see Dooku or any other Sith during that time Fly. And it actually does show both Power and Control. Most Jedi and Sith can only levitate a few feet off the ground, usually during meditation. Thanaton gathered his power and actually flew up and out of reach of Imperius in order to escape and taunt him. It would've been more impressive if he'd shot attacks from the air as well, like Soa the Infernal One, but that's another matter.

And yet again, you mention things you have no knowledge of. Why should I respond to this nonsense when you lack the knowledge on both teams in this fight? For that matter, why did you even create this when you:

What knowledge I have of Dooku and Ventress is through via the Movies and the TCW series up through Season 5. If you have something worth providing, then by all means do so, but don't go spouting things like "You know nothing!" when that is not the case. From My experience, Dooku nor Ventress has ever done anything quite like Thanaton has done against Imperius, creating a huge force whirlwind of lightning and storm and was pouring every bit of power into it he could since his other attempts were brushed aside effortlessly.

Judging by this, any lightning attempt by Dooku would be brushed off, leaving his only option via lightsaber combat. If you'd like to try and prove otherwise, then be my guest to do so rather than complaining.

Stop dragging threads off-topic without purpose. You already lack sufficient information to make judgement on this battle, and now you draw it in random directions aimlessly.

For one, it's a thread I made, and it has to do with SWTOR so it's not off topic. Also, anyone here is capable of engaging in the story and seeing for themselves what Imperius and the Wrath can do. For Free. With the F2P option, anyone can go to the site, download the game and play it for free on their own time and experience the story for themselves. Or you can just watch the gameplay footage of other peoples experiences on youtube.

#11 Edited by ShootingNova (17101 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai:

The SWTOR books are novelizations of the game timelines. Revan is a prequel to it, Deception tells the story of the Sacking of Coruscant and the Treaty of Coruscant, Fatal Alliance occurs within the 10yr cold war before the beginning of the Player Stories, and Annihilation tells us what has happened so far within the galaxy that the Players are engaged in.

If you don't pay attention, I won't speak with you anymore. There's no point discussing any of this if you don't even read my posts. As I said, these novels tell us absolutely nothing about the on-panel feats of either the Wrath or Kallig.

You're looking for Specific Novel about the Class Stories, and you're not going to find that, because it's unnecessary. We have their stories by Playing them, they are written and scripted. The only things that change are parts in the middle that occur between the beginning and the end of the current story. Who you kill and how you build your alignment. Ultimately all of their feats and abilities remain the same.

No, not specifically class stories, because those would be far too long to be novelizations. I'm just looking for direct feats (ie. Jedi Consular ripping through a blast door).

And yet, I have seen many cases of people claiming all PT Jedi are superluminal, despite the lack of feats and evidence to support it. This is not what I am doing. However, one does know that you don't become a Master Jedi by being useless. Becoming a Master is a feat in itself, if not a big one.

No, it isn't. A master can be an expert in many things aside from combat.

We're also aware of battles she has fought during the war and what they did on Malachor Three, which resulted in the loss of Parakans Tark, who would eventually return as the Sith Lord Vivicar to exact his revenge while under the control of the spirit of Terrak Morrhage. Whom, as we know, the Consular defeats.

Kindly tell me what are these "battles" and what relevance they bring? The Consular isn't in this battle, and there was no battle on Malachor III. They just fled and left Parkanas Tark behind, who was corrupted by Terrak Morrhage's spirit. That's it. I've played the Consular storyline, I know what happens.

Once again, none of these are good feats, nor are they relevant to the topic.

You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss these things as 'off-topic'. In fact, each of the class stories has some cross over with each other, and the Agent storyline explains much of that.

Of course they are off-topic. If mixing the Jedi storylines with the Sith ones is the best you can do to get feats, I would advise you to reconsider your tactics.

He killed his Mother when he was 4 and his father years later. At this you're just nitpicking. 99% of every character in SW is Featless, which includes the majority of the Jedi and Sith Orders, and yet I still hear people spouting such garbage that all Jedi can move lightspeed and other nonsense. So don't go barking about "they're featless". There is an Average level we have seen for each Ranking in their systems, and that's enough to judge by.

These feats aren't worth much, considering both his mother and stepfather were non-Force sensitive. Actually, the stepfather died first, and the mother was tortured to death afterwards. Again, learn your facts and stop making up information.

" The father flew into a rage, attacking the boy's mother. Tenebrae stopped him, feeding on his father's anger and hate to call upon the dark side. He snapped his father's neck with a mere thought, killing him instantly. His mother died more slowly. Tenebrae made her suffer for months as punishment for betraying the family, torturing her with the Force as he honed his powers."

-- Taken from The Old Republic: Revan

And Vitiate is more powerful than Kallig and the Wrath, so stop bringing up others.

No Jedi moves at lightspeed. We have beings striking at near-relativistic speeds, but you making up false information aimlessly suggests nothing but your own lack of knowledge on this matter. Don't comment on things you have no idea what you're talking about.

There was no guesswork there. Eldon Ax could not burn out a Hex-Droid with Force Lightning, despite her best attempts. Darth Chratis, her master, could and did so to several of them at the same time. And Hex-Droids make every machine during the Clone Wars look like garbage. And Chratis was still below the members of the Dark Council.

Similarly, Jedi Padawan Shigar Konshi couldn' TK crush a Hex-Droid, yet Grand Master Satele Shan did so quite easily and tossed them around like nothing. This gives us a clear understanding of the differences in power between the Apprentices and their Masters. And we also know that the one who gave Satele the most trouble was Darth Malgus.

I really don't see the point in arguing with irrelevant, asinine nonsense which doesn't do anything to prove your point.

As for the "most powerful sith/jedi", that is just purely false. They don't supersede anyone or anything. That is merely the work of one writer who didn't work with the writing staff of other teams, especially not those with BioWare building the SWTOR Era. It's an utterly and completely meaningless statement. Nvm that such Claims get retconned all the time. They still say Vader was the 2nd most powerful Sith ever, and yet we have many arguments of figures who can top him. And then others saying Yoda was the most powerful Jedi before Luke appeared.

Any line that states "this char is the most powerful" is just a line of pure BS and the only time it worked was for Sidious and Luke because George Lucas wanked them so that no one else could ever be allowed to make a character more powerful than his own.

What is your goal here? To fight canon? Not only do numerous canonical sources say they are the most powerful, but they are the most powerful according to feats. I will give you an entire page's worth of feats for Palpatine is you still don't believe he is the most powerful Sith Lord. When you have nothing to say, you just rely on "this is PIS" or "this is just wank" and so forth, but how are you any better?

As for Lucas wanking, Lucas is the highest level of canon (and no offence, but your opinion on these things is utterly meaningless and infinitely inferior to that of canon's), but it wasn't even him who was saying all this. This point was already debunked in the other thread, and you still post this nonsense?

DS Inquisitor follows more the line of sadism, torture and torment over Cunning. It follows the same profiling of most sith of just enjoying pain and suffering for that alone. Cunning and ruthless intelligence is more about using Deceit and Words to manipulate others to get what you want, over just zapping them with lightning and forcing them to obey you.

A lot of people overly assume that the Dark Side is the "Canon" path of Sith. That's not true, and there are several instances within the games story where a number of Light Sided Sith have appeared. One of the greatest things about SWTOR is, of course, making your Own Choices. Those that just go pure dark like "I'm the bad guy, herp!" tend not to understand this.

I chose to use the Imperius name because that is closer to how I feel the Inquisitor will end up. Still kill those he feels needs to die, but lets others live that can be Manipulated and more useful to him Alive rather than dead. To truly be in power without just going blindly down the path of the Dark Side. But again, that's my Personal choice. And that's what I'm using for this.

But as I've said before, regardless of the Path you chose, the end result and abilities of each of the Class heroes don't really change.

Let's just drop this. We're getting nowhere and you are dragging it more and more off-topic.

We're talking about Vitiate, not Darth Sidious. (Hah). Exal Kressh actually learned a fair bit and received a bit of power from Vitiate himself when he sought to dominate her mind. She tries to fight him off, but his voice still reaches her and it is what makes her crazy. Exal also reflected Thanaton's lightning back at him with fair ease and was more powerful than he was at the time, forcing him to flee. The only reason he was even sent after Exal Kressh was because the Dark Council didn't care if he succeeded or not.

What are you talking about? Seriously..... you're just failing to use ABC logic here.

Not what I was saying. I was saying he wasn't so blinded by the Dark Side that he couldn't think straight as is most often the case. And he doesn't choose to just murder everything in sight either. He is calm and patient and shows restraint when needed. That is the point I was trying to make. I chose Imperius was Neutral because that shows the level of Patience and Restraint necessary for this, and not just "Lightning Hands!" everything.

If you love off-topic rantings so much, then I won't respond to you ever again.

Actually it shows the Inquisitor's lack of knowledge over power. Thanaton has had 30yrs to build both and he was still afraid of what Imperius would become, hence the need to see him killed. And yet despite this, Thanaton didn't understand the connection between the Dead and Imperius. Even so he got through Imperius' shield at the time and killed him, however, the Ghosts also kept Imperius alive at the same time. This would actually show that Imperius cannot be killed by normal means, or at least your only choice is decapitation.

As for ghosts, lemme see. They were corrupting and controlling scores of people entering the Dark Temple and making them kill anyone who drew near and gave even non-force users the ability to use the Force and were messing with the heads of other Sith Lords who'd entered the Temple and couldn't be hurt by normal means, even with the Force. Which the Inquisitor figured out the hard way when Kallig slapped the crap out of you during that first trip in.

And you know being "featless" doesn't mean you don't have power. After all, Vitiate did take 100 "featless" Sith lords, used them in a ritual and killed an entire planet absorbing the Life Force of all the millions of life forms on it, including those Sith Lords, to make himself Immortal and become the most powerful being in the galaxy for the next 1500yrs whose entire plan is to consume all life in the galaxy and become a God.

What does Vitiate using rituals have to do with any of this? This is a being much more powerful than anybody in this battle, using something that took days/weeks of prep, and the deception of a hundred Sith Lords.

Jumping High =/= flying. I have yet to see Dooku or any other Sith during that time Fly. And it actually does show both Power and Control. Most Jedi and Sith can only levitate a few feet off the ground, usually during meditation. Thanaton gathered his power and actually flew up and out of reach of Imperius in order to escape and taunt him. It would've been more impressive if he'd shot attacks from the air as well, like Soa the Infernal One, but that's another matter.

Ignore me at your will. Dace Diath has levitated, and Dooku has similarly levitated/floated his way down an enormous distance.

What knowledge I have of Dooku and Ventress is through via the Movies and the TCW series up through Season 5. If you have something worth providing, then by all means do so, but don't go spouting things like "You know nothing!" when that is not the case. From My experience, Dooku nor Ventress has ever done anything quite like Thanaton has done against Imperius, creating a huge force whirlwind of lightning and storm and was pouring every bit of power into it he could since his other attempts were brushed aside effortlessly.

If you recognize your knowledge is insufficient, then don't comment. It's as simple as that. You make things so difficult by dragging this conversation on and on.

Judging by this, any lightning attempt by Dooku would be brushed off, leaving his only option via lightsaber combat. If you'd like to try and prove otherwise, then be my guest to do so rather than complaining.

I'm not complaining, but even if I did, it would be the best thing to do against your infinite off-topic rants. You've pulled enough desperadoes, if you will properly debate, this would be a smoother discussion.

And I'd first ask you to brush up on Dooku. Even if you've only seen the movies and TCW, surely you would know that Dooku has more than his lightsaber and lightning?

For one, it's a thread I made, and it has to do with SWTOR so it's not off topic. Also, anyone here is capable of engaging in the story and seeing for themselves what Imperius and the Wrath can do. For Free. With the F2P option, anyone can go to the site, download the game and play it for free on their own time and experience the story for themselves. Or you can just watch the gameplay footage of other peoples experiences on youtube.

I've played the game, stop taking me as a doll who knows nothing about Star Wars. You're the one making up information and dragging this to off-topic places in a desperate attempt to deny several things.