#1 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

These two generally seem to be the contenders for title of "2nd Best Sith", so I'm trying to see who people think is better. I'm leaning towards Caedus personally, but we'll see. Setting is Rhen Var. Who wins? And yes, this has been done before, but next to one commented, so I feel I can post it again and see what people think.

Versus

#2 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#3 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

There's already a thread for this, but Caedus wins.

Next time Bump the old thread.

#4 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd give this to Caedus, his superiority in lightsaber combat gives him the edge.

#5 Edited by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb: I agree completely. I feel that while Plagueis is better with the Force, Caedus can at least keep up in that arena whereas in terms of lightsaber combat Caedus completely outclasses Plagueis, who is all but completely featless with a lightsaber. So yeah, I say Caedus wins in an all-out and stomps in a saber duel. Force-fight Plagueis in a hard-fought win.

@JamesKM716: I know, but like I said, next to no one commented, and I want to know what people think, so I decided to try my hand. But yes, you're right, I probably should have just bumped the old one. Ah well.

#6 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow said:

@guttridgeb: I agree completely. I feel that while Plagueis is better with the Force, Caedus can at least keep up in that arena whereas in terms of lightsaber combat Caedus completely outclasses Plagueis, who is all but completely featless with a lightsaber. So yeah, I say Caedus wins in an all-out and stomps in a saber duel. Force-fight Plagueis in a hard-fought win.

@JamesKM716: I know, but like I said, next to one commented, and I want to know what people think, so I decided to try my hand. But yes, you're right, I probably should have just bumped the old one. Ah well.

First: Plagueis being better with the Force is debatable, but i'd agree. Caedus being better at the light saber is likely, but we don't actually know, because we never saw a completely unhinged Plagueis. I would personally doubt that Caedus would stomp in a Saber duel.

#7 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716: You are right, it is debatable, but either way, Caedus can keep up with Plagueis. The same cannot be said of Plagueis' saber skills in relation to Caedus.

@JamesKM716 said:

Caedus being better at the light saber is likely, but we don't actually know, because we never saw a completely unhinged Plagueis. I would personally doubt that Caedus would stomp in a Saber duel.

Who did Plagueis beat who ever had any feats? No one. Why he is treated as a fantastic lightsaber duelist is beyond me, given that he is nearly as bad as Bane when it comes to no good saber showings. He beat what was essentially a doppelganger, which is a decent feat, with the one problem that the doppelganger has no feats and neither does Plagueis, so it devalues it greatly. I stand by my belief that he would get stomped horribly in a saber duel. Caedus has demonstrated vastly superior lightsaber feats.

#8 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow said:

Who did Plagueis beat who ever had any feats? No one. Why he is treated as a fantastic lightsaber duelist is beyond me, given that he is nearly as bad as Bane when it comes to no good saber showings. He beat what was essentially a doppelganger, which is a decent feat, with the one problem that the doppelganger has no feats and neither does Plagueis, so it devalues it greatly. I stand by my belief that he would get stomped horribly in a saber duel. Caedus has demonstrated vastly superior lightsaber feats.

The point of that duel, is that Plagueis was never troubled in his duel with Venamis. He handily defeats him, noting to switch forms. In addition he takes on an army of Kursid warriors with Sidious, and duels with Sidious.

#9 Posted by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

Thinking Caedus.

#10 Edited by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716 said:

The point of that duel, is that Plagueis was never troubled in his duel with Venamis. He handily defeats him, noting to switch forms.

Except again, Venamis is completely, utterly featless.

@JamesKM716 said:

In addition he takes on an army of Kursid warriors

Caedus killed Yuuzhan Vong Warriors before he was even a Sith Lord. Yuuzhan Vong Warriors>Kursid. Also, Sidious was backing him up.

@JamesKM716 said:

Duels with Sidious.

Now we're getting somewhere. But what lightsaber feats had Sidious displayed at that point in time?

#11 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow: Fair that Venamis is featless... BUT you yourself said that he was a doppleganger and that made it slightly remarkable.

Did Caedus ever kill an entire army of them with only a single other warrior to help him? without getting touched?

Plagueis fought the Kursid army, and defeated all of them without getting hurt at all. Yes Sidious was backing him up, but it's still remarkable that he defeated hundreds without getting hurt at all.

Oye, I think when Silver told me this, it was being used as a feat for Sidious skills at the time, So, likely, Sidious hadn't displayed any feats yet.

#12 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716 said:

@shroudofsorrow: Fair that Venamis is featless... BUT you yourself said that he was a doppleganger and that made it slightly remarkable.

Slightly, but hardly the stuff of a top-tier lightsaber duelist and certainly not enough to compete with Caedus.

@JamesKM716 said:

Did Caedus ever kill an entire army of them with only a single other warrior to help him? without getting touched?

Plagueis fought the Kursid army, and defeated all of them without getting hurt at all. Yes Sidious was backing him up, but it's still remarkable that he defeated hundreds without getting hurt at all.

Prequel-era Jedi like Mace decimated groups of droids armed with blasters as opposed to bows and arrows. So its comparable to that, but tells me nothing in terms of swordsmanship skills. Regardless I will say this is his single best feat.

@JamesKM716 said:

Oye, I think when Silver told me this, it was being used as a feat for Sidious skills at the time, So, likely, Sidious hadn't displayed any feats yet.

Then I'm disregarding it as a feat. If this was an iteration of Sidious who had beaten Maul and then Plagueis beat his apprentice then yes, I would be inclined to believe that Plagueis was good. But if this was a Sidious who had not yet demonstrated any lightsaber feats...

#13 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow said:

@JamesKM716 said:

@shroudofsorrow: Fair that Venamis is featless... BUT you yourself said that he was a doppleganger and that made it slightly remarkable.

Slightly, but hardly the stuff of a top-tier lightsaber duelist and certainly not enough to compete with Caedus.

@JamesKM716 said:

Did Caedus ever kill an entire army of them with only a single other warrior to help him? without getting touched?

Plagueis fought the Kursid army, and defeated all of them without getting hurt at all. Yes Sidious was backing him up, but it's still remarkable that he defeated hundreds without getting hurt at all.

Prequel-era Jedi like Mace decimated groups of droids armed with blasters as opposed to bows and arrows. So its comparable to that, but tells me nothing in terms of swordsmanship skills. Regardless I will say this is his single best feat.

@JamesKM716 said:

Oye, I think when Silver told me this, it was being used as a feat for Sidious skills at the time, So, likely, Sidious hadn't displayed any feats yet.

Then I'm disregarding it as a feat. If this was an iteration of Sidious who had beaten Maul and then Plagueis beat his apprentice then yes, I would be inclined to believe that Plagueis was good. But if this was a Sidious who had not yet demonstrated any lightsaber feats...

It's not enough to convince anyone that he's a better duelist than Caedus, but it's good enough to show that he is a skilled duelist.

On your second point, that feat for Mace is inconsistant with his otehr showings.

Defeating an entire army with only two is an incredibly fantastic feat, especially considering that they weren't wounded at all by it.

You'd have to ask I honestly don't know when that timeiline waas.

#14 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716 said:

It's not enough to convince anyone that he's a better duelist than Caedus, but it's good enough to show that he is a skilled duelist.

"Skilled" is being generous. I think decent is more appropriate. Decent isn't good enough.

@JamesKM716 said:

On your second point, that feat for Mace is inconsistant with his other showings.

Defeating an entire army with only two is an incredibly fantastic feat, especially considering that they weren't wounded at all by it.

I've already said this is his best feat, but its less of a dueling feat and more of a "kill a lot of guys feat". And is it true that we do not regard Mace's soloing an army of SBDs as canon? Because I fail to see how it was terribly inconsistent with previous showings. He's one of the most powerful Jedi Masters there is.

And the fact remains that while they haven't necessarily taken down foes in those numbers, many Force-Sensitives have still soloed large numbers of blaster-wielding foes. Even Starkiller could do it.

#15 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow: I say skilled because he defeated a doppleganger with ease

Secondly, It's more of a speed feat. The duo were moving so fast that they didn't get touched.

Also, Mace's feat is canon, but it's inconsistant with his other force showings from what Silver and Nova said.

#16 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716 said:

Secondly, It's more of a speed feat. The duo were moving so fast that they didn't get touched.

Yes, I would say speed is an arena where Plagueis likely surpasses Caedus, though I don't know Caedus' speed feats off the top of my head.

@JamesKM716 said:

Also, Mace's feat is canon, but it's inconsistant with his other force showings from what Silver and Nova said.

I see. I wonder how that works, having a canon showing that is considered inadmissible. Hmm...perhaps Mace was being amped there too. Who knows?

#17 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow: Caedus is about equal with him I think. Caedus best Speed feat is losing to Luke. Which sounds bad, but is actualyl insanely great.

I don't, that's for sure!

#18 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716: How is losing a duel a speed feat?

#19 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow: Because he fought Luke on equal footing, and Luke is insanely fast.

#20 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#21 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1991 posts) - - Show Bio

#22 Posted by ComicStooge (12427 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally, I'd say Plagueis. He seems skilled enough and physically capable enough not to be overwhelmed by Cadeus's dueling ability and outclasses him in use of the Force.

#23 Posted by ShootingNova (16112 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty sure this has been done before. Caedus wins in general, due to better feats, but his inconsistency makes my hesitate to give him a high rating out of ten.

#24 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: This has been done before, but no one commented on it. Yes, I know, I should have just bumped it, but still. I wanted to see what people think.