Darth Caedus and Darth Plagueis Vs. Yoda and Mace Windu

Setting is The Father's temple on Mortis.

Round 1: Mace as he normally is

Round 2: Mace with his amp

Who wins?

Versus

Bump

As the Star Wars heavy hitters said, Yoda can beat Plagueis. So if Plagueis goes down after a very close and long fight and Mace is still standing, then I do not think Caedus can take on Yoda and Mace at the same time.

It's about who goes down first: Plagueis or Mace. For Yoda vs Caedus... I don't know.

However, if the two crossed and it was Caedus vs Mace, Plagueis vs Yoda, Mace is going down first.

I'm leaning toward the Sith.

@JediXMan: Hmm...I think Yoda beats Caedus. As does Mace with his amp. Mace without his amp is losing to Caedus and possibly Plagueis too on the account of having inferior Force ability...

Yeah, I can't decide. I'm leaning towards the Jedi though.

Bump

Yoda and Mace wins. And Yoda can beat either of them in lightsaber combat.

@Jedisupermaster: Agreed. Caedus at least could give him a fight, but Yoda still wins. That said, Plagueis could easily beat Mace before Yoda beats Caedus, at which point its 2 against 1. So really it could go either way.

@shroudofsorrow said:

@Jedisupermaster: Agreed. Caedus at least could give him a fight, but Yoda still wins. That said, Plagueis could easily beat Mace before Yoda beats Caedus, at which point its 2 against 1. So really it could go either way.

I highly doubt Plagueis can beat Mace "easily".

@Jedisupermaster: While his lightsaber skills are vastly inferior, he has a much better command over the Force. He's also faster, and likely stronger too. I should rephrase, when I said Plagueis could "easily" beat Mace, that's not what I meant. He can win, potentially, and if he wins before Yoda's done with Caedus then Yoda is in trouble. Mace is far superior in terms of lightsaber combat this is true, but Plagueis outclasses him in other arenas.

I think the Sith take the majority of 7-8/10. Both Plagueis and Caedus should be able to defeat Mace. And while I admit that Yoda can likely defeat either of the Sith solo in a ferocious (and close) duel, Yoda simply cannot defeat both together.

It's possible that Yoda could defeat Plagueis in time to face Caedus and defeat him too, but that turn of events is incredibly unlikely IMO

@JamesKM716: Mace could hold out against Plagueis potentially, but yeah, thinking about it, the Sith likely win. Yoda and Mace are better lightsaber duelists, but Mace is a weak link in terms of force ability.

Round 1: Team 1 majority.

Round 2: Team 2 for majority

@shroudofsorrow: Mace could hold out a bit, but not nearly long enough. The Sith should be able to win in time.

Also, I forgot about the rounds, so here:

Round 1: Sith win 9/10

Round 2: Sith win 7-8/10

Round 1 Sith 6/10

Round 2 Jedi 8/10

Imo round one will be alot closer than some think.In character Mace probably has the best Guy he could wish for keeping an eye out for him,not that he will need it in the early exchanges imo But as time goes by the fight will favour the Sith.

@JamesKM716: Hmm...I'd say Round 2 goes to the Jedi more often than not. Amped Mace fought evenly with Sidious, who is a vastly better lightsaber duelist than Plagueis or Caedus. So I'd say the Jedi win Round 2 more often than not.

@Chaos Prime said:

Round 1 Sith 6/10

Round 2 Jedi 8/10

Yeah, that seems right, though I think the Sith might win a few more times in Round 1.

@shroudofsorrow said:

@JamesKM716: Hmm...I'd say Round 2 goes to the Jedi more often than not. Amped Mace fought evenly with Sidious, who is a vastly better lightsaber duelist than Plagueis or Caedus. So I'd say the Jedi win Round 2 more often than not.

Silver outlined it within his massive post on it, but the most likely conjecture was that Sidious was holding back against Amped Mace. WE don't know to what extent (Not ALL that much likely).

But anywho, I'd wager Plagueis about equal to an Amped Mace, and Caedus even greater. I will admit that I have Round 2 too high.

Round 1: Sith 9/10

Round 2: Sith 6/10

@JamesKM716 said:

@shroudofsorrow said:

@JamesKM716: Hmm...I'd say Round 2 goes to the Jedi more often than not. Amped Mace fought evenly with Sidious, who is a vastly better lightsaber duelist than Plagueis or Caedus. So I'd say the Jedi win Round 2 more often than not.

Silver outlined it within his massive post on it, but the most likely conjecture was that Sidious was holding back against Amped Mace. WE don't know to what extent (Not ALL that much likely).

But anywho, I'd wager Plagueis about equal to an Amped Mace, and Caedus even greater. I will admit that I have Round 2 too high.

Round 1: Sith 9/10

Round 2: Sith 6/10

What would put either of them equal or greater than an amped Mace?

@ImBoredLetsDebate: Plagueis is more of conjecture, in that we've never seen a fully unleashed combat Plagueis, and personally I think he's likely incredibly strong.

Caedus dueled Luke Skywalker evenly, which is better than an Amped Mace. He also took down 5 (I think it was five, maybe 4) Jedi in roughly thirty seconds, one of whom was Kyle Katarn.

@JamesKM716 said:

@ImBoredLetsDebate: Plagueis is more of conjecture, in that we've never seen a fully unleashed combat Plagueis, and personally I think he's likely incredibly strong.

Caedus dueled Luke Skywalker evenly, which is better than an Amped Mace. He also took down 5 (I think it was five, maybe 4) Jedi in roughly thirty seconds, one of whom was Kyle Katarn.

From my knowledge, Caedus never dueled Luke evenly when Luke was actually trying to win. Who were these Jedi? Mace dueled Sidious who took down 3 notable Jedi Masters in less than 10 seconds (movie wise).

@JamesKM716: @ImBoredLetsDebate: Indeed, I was under the impression that there were unique circumstances that allowed Caedus to do well against LotF Luke, who also is not as powerful as NJO Luke. Also, this idea that Plagueis is likely very powerful doesn't work. Theory and ideas have no weight here, feats do. Its the same as saying that Zannah after killing Bane and absorbing his power was greater than him, but HOW greater is impossible to say due to a lack of feats. Its the same with Plagueis. He has no feats. He would do well against Mace Windu only because he completely outclasses him in terms of Force ability.

@JamesKM716 said:

Silver outlined it within his massive post on it, but the most likely conjecture was that Sidious was holding back against Amped Mace. WE don't know to what extent (Not ALL that much likely).

Is that a fact? Because the novelization explicitly referred to it as an impasse. But whatever. If Sidious was only holding back a little, it sill makes Amped Mace more than capable of handling Caedus and especially Plagueis.

@ImBoredLetsDebate said:

But anywho, I'd wager Plagueis about equal to an Amped Mace

No he is not. Not even close. Plagueis is FEATLESS in terms of dueling skill. Fighting with a featless version of Sidious is not the same as fighting evenly with Sidious at a time when he was the most powerful Sith there is. Plagueis is far, far, below both Mace Windu amped and Mace as he normally is.

@JamesKM716 said:

Round 1: Sith 9/10

Round 2: Sith 6/10

I'd say more Round 1: Sith 7-8/10, Round 2 Jedi 8/10.

I don't see how Sith take Round 1. Yoda is strong enough to take out Caedus, and Plagueis is less powerful than Caedus in combat terms.

It could go either way.

Sith win the first round just about every time.

Mace is the weak link. Telekinetically, at best he can move tanks and send droids flying a few kilometers, but Caedus can moved 40-meter long ships and Plagueis disintegrates armored assassins while injured before his prime. His speed is also so much inferior that I doubt he would accomplish anything but defend himself against either Sith. Honestly, Plagueis could beat him only utilizing telekinesis and speed.

Yoda is equal to either Sith in speed and is more powerful than Caedus, but it would be a tough fight against either of them. He is the best combatant on the field, but he's only delaying the inevtiable: Mace's death and the Sith double-teaming him.

Plagueis is a star buster

Yoda takes Plagueis and Mace makes short work of Caedus.

What?

@anonymousjedi: He is barely on Dooku's level. Getting stomped by Luke Skywalker is his best feat, Caedus was debunked long ago.

Team 2. Mace is comparable to anyone from Team 1 whilst Yoda can beat either.

@richard96: Obviously not Caedus fanboy with Caedus profile photo disapproves of unfavourable Caedus opinion. Hmmmmm...

Yoda >/= Mace > Plagueis > Caedus, assuming peak fighting state.

Jedi win. Caedus in particular is a weak link.

@i_like_swords: Interesting. I don't necessarily disagree, but find it interesting that you have Mace equal to Yoda and superior to Plagueis...

I can't imagine this a common opinion on these forums?

@hilarityensues: Caedus is in Dooku's league, unfortunately :(

@anonymousjedi: I acknowledged that he was, but only barely.

@hilarityensues: I don't know a lot about him, so I'll stop here. @richard96 should have plenty to say, though.

I don't think Vaapad is an "amp", and I think Mace's personal power is why he did so well against Sidious. Sidious was clearly going all out up until Anakin entered the room, and then he put on a show. The evidence for this is him trying to throw Mace out of the window beforehand.

It is interesting how this is somehow the case, even when Sidious never uses any offensive force abilities. Yet, with the Dooku vs. Yoda battle, most people believe Yoda was 'holding back' and use this very reason as there main proof. Never quite understood it, myself.

@anonymousjedi: He used TK on Windu per two sources, so that doesn't make any sense. Jedi restraint is why Yoda didn't obliterate Dooku.

@i_like_swords: Not in the movies, though.

@anonymousjedi: In just the movies, Mace kicks Sidious' ass, so checkmate atheists.

@i_like_swords: And in the movies there's no clear indication that Yoda held back (except force-wise), so how does this come to be?

@i_like_swords: Yes and No. We have sources like this:

Yoda and Dooku were almost equals, with the little Jedi Master having perhaps a slight edge over his former padawan.

Source: The Official Star Wars Fact File #34

And Yoda stating he wanted Dooku captured but he was still willing to kill. Obviously I'm sure there are still contradictions galore elsewhere.

He doesn't use any offensive Force abilities against him, but merely deflects Dooku's attacks - unlike with Sidious - and he expresses sentiment towards his "former padawan." Moreover, he kicks his ass, whereas in "just the movies" Mace outright defeats Sidious.

But since we're considering legends sources, not sure why you want to take the discussion down this route anyway.

They certainly might have appeared that way on the surface, but in reality, that's not the case. Moreover, there are plenty of other sources, namely the primary depictions of the fight, which show Yoda having a huge edge, in addition to their Dark Rendezvous battle where despite Dooku being egregiously amped and Yoda weakened in equal part, and Yoda genuinely holding back out of sympathy, he still dominates Dooku.

Yoda might have been willing to kill Dooku, but it doesn't mean he was fully unrestrained in his attempt to do so. Yoda and Sidious have glaringly different fighting styles, which is why Dooku lasted as long as he did.

@i_like_swords: He didn't really kick his ass... sure, he was winning from pretty much the beginning, but it wasn't like he was completely stomping him to the degree that is suggested here.

@anonymousjedi: Semantics. Dooku ran away because he was struggling, and Yoda wasn't even breaking a sweat. More to the point, Yoda is an equal of Sidious, who can ragdoll Dooku casually and beat him in under 10 seconds in a duel.

This is the only part that suggests Yoda can beat Dooku easy that I've seen, from memory, other than the tiers.

@anonymousjedi: Other than him actually doing it, yeah. :)