Darth Bane & Zannah (DoE) vs Darth Revan & Malak (pre-KOTOR)

MORALS ON (though none of these characters have any)

Legends, EU and Canon figure into this fight (though any Canon takes priority)

ROUND #1 LOCATION: KORRIBAN

ROUND #2 LOCATION: JEDI TEMPLE

ROUND #3 LOCATION: FINAL DESTINATION (SMASH BROS)

AND . . . GO!

so i take it its all lore/canon in this fight or is there a select era do we prefer?

Malak is a weak link. Team 1 should win virtually every time.

@aressword: This is Bane and Zannah during Dynasty of Evil and Malak/Revan before Malak's betrayal.

Team 1 wins.

@silentbat: then i'd say team one, during the era of were malak betrayed revan i wouldn't call that their best era and would get creamed.

Going with team 1, due to the time period that was selected.

Team 1 because of era.

Zannah could potentially use Malak to kill Revan, for that matter.

"Look! It's a Terentatek! Kill it!"

So then it becomes 3 on 1. But yeah, even putting that aside, I would favor Bane over Revan in a fight anyway.

@jedixman: I don't quite think something that extreme would be used, but she could haunt Malak or something similar.

I know. It was a joke.

But yeah, she is fully capable of ripping his head to pieces, or - at the absolute least - taking him out of the fight.

Team 1

@jedixman: I know, but there are other beings Zannah could do that to, I simply don't believe it is the case here. I do think it would be quite the joke if it really did happen :P

Zannah would still beat Jedi Alek every single time.

... wait...

I just realized that this is Alek, not post-betrayal Malak, and that this is all pre-KOTOR (reading titles and OPs... who has time for that?). I'm close to saying that Zannah solos; Revan did not display TP resistance at this point yet (I think; been awhile since I read Revan), and she very well could shred their minds to pieces. Darth Bane studied to resist Zannah, and spend a decent amount of time meditating, and he was still almost overwhelmed by the visions.

Don't believe they have any resistance feats to speak of at this point. Yeah, I'll say that Zannah solos.

@jedixman: Post-betrayal Malak is physically dominating, powerful and relentless enough to press Zannah to an extent sufficient to almost entirely remove the notion of her utilizing her Sorcery. She has only ever displayed it whilst she managed to create gaps, which she might be able to do with Alek, but not with Malak.

Granted, this is Alek, so he would, as I said, lose every time. I doubt Zannah solos, however. Revan's combative skills and precognitive abilities are still decent enough at this stage to, or at least when combined with Alek's skill, defeat Zannah. Bane would have to hold one of them off, which I am confident he can do (I am also confident he could beat either of them). As for TP feats, Revan has used Language Absorption to rip the language of the Rakatans from their minds in order to understand it, whilst simultaneously implanting Basic in their minds in order for them to understand him. That's a decent telepathic showing, though not quite on par with Bane of PoD alone resisting Kaan's mental abilities, which were sufficient to manipulate the entire Brotherhood of Darkness, IIRC. I still doubt Zannah would immediately utilize Sorcery, and I doubt she would immediately overwhelm Revan, which gives Alek a chance to overwhelm her, considering how her attention has to be split as a result.

Apologies. This is indeed Darth Malak. This is Darth Revan and Malak just before Malak's betrayal (after they had already returned from Dromund Kaas and were invading the Republic).

@darthant66:

You know, stalking my old posts is a really sad hobby.

Forgot to check back on this. Seems like most think Team 1. Does anyone have reasons behind their picks? I think Revan and Malak are being undervalued here. Though I also favor Team 1.

Team 1, probably.

I laughed so hard at that joke XD

I say team one as well.

@silentbat: Bane is arguably a better duelist and more impressive Force user than pre-KotOR Revan and certainly Alek, and Zannah is definitely more impressive Force-wise than team two. I think replacing Alek would make this fight closer.

@echostarlord117: Malak is essentially the same character as his KOTOR iteration. The biggest difference is Darth Revan.

@silentbat: Oh, my bad. I didn't see your earlier post. I mean, I still think Malak is inferior to Bane in every category, and inferior to Zannah in terms of the Force. That makes this battle a closer one, though.

Team 1.

Hmmm . . . I think this might actually be closer than what was previously thought.

I'll simply copy-paste (with a few minor edits) what I said in another thread:

Zannah is only a distraction in this fight. Her Spells of Madness are useless, and she will lose 10/10 to either opponent.

Malak can very well contend with Bane; maybe win 3/10, and with Darth Revan it is an even split, 5/10, against Bane.

Depending on who fights who, it is possible for either team to win.

Scenario 1: Revan vs Darth Bane, Darth Malak vs Darth Zannah - Revan and Bane will be locked in a stalemate for quite some time, while Malak goes against Zannah. It's quite obvious that Zannah >>>>>> Bastila, in dueling, so she'd last a lot longer than Bastila did. But will it be long enough for Bane and Revan to finish with their fight? In any case, both will be marathon fights, and I have no clue who'd finish first, but in whichever team that person belongs in will win this 10/10. However, as the chances of either fight concluding first are roughly the same, it will be a 5/10 split.

Scenario 2: Revan vs Zannah, Bane vs Malak - Although Revan's Battle Precognition allows him a higher level of lightsaber proficiency than Malak, taking down Zannah will still be a pain. Malak vs Bane would also conclude quicker - perhaps it would last just as long as Revan vs Zannah would. But as this is not a 5/10, as Revan vs Bane was, but a 7/10, Bane's chances of winning are higher than Malak's, and thus, it will also be 7/10 win for Bane and Zannah.

In total, it's a 12/20, or a 6/10 victory for Bane and Zannah.

@jedixman@juiceboks@deathstroke19@The_Deathstroker@jacthripper@precrisisbardock@darthsenju@darthbane77@dccomicsrules@dadivineking@jkbart@silver2467@ForklifterMatt

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@darkdefender@thevivas@echostarlord117@bat_siri@freesid_stf123@themuser@i_like_swords@emperordmb

Malak isn't beating Zannah 10/10, lol.

Its debatable if Darth Revan or Darth Bane could beat prime Zannah.

@wollfmyth209: The OP states Zannah as of Dynasty of Evil, not prime, which has never been explored anyway.

And Malak will beat Zannah 10/10 due to him being able to resist her spells of madness. If you have feats for Zannah, other than mental ones, that suggest superiority to Malak, let me know.

@azronger: Given how by that point her power is supposedly ahead of Bane's, or at least rivals his, it very well could be.

And Malak doesn't have feats to suggest he can resist her spells, lol. Bane's willpower and telepathic defenses are a good deal greater than Malak's and Zannah broke through them and nearly made Bane go insane.

@wollfmyth209: Malak subjugated the Star Forge, a factory, which drove the ancient Sith insane with only a fraction of its power, with the will of his mind.

Lmfao at Malak or Revan beating Zannah 10/10

Neither of them have the proper feats to resist her (at this point)

Zannah/Bane take this, Bane has both the raw power in the force and the dueling ability to take Darth Revan. Zannah's sorcery Eliminates Malak about as fast as she can use it.

I think this match is close one, but I favour Team 1 for the majority tbh.

I agree with ant here. Bane himself even hinted at inferiority to Revan in "Path of Destruction". Team 2 wins after a good fight.

@azronger: *Ghosts of ancient Sith who've turned insane. Plus I don't recall Ajunta being turned insane by it, I recall him saying it has blinding power. Bane's willpower allowed him to keep fighting after nearly half his body was incinirated, and his telepathic resistence allowed him to be unaffected by Kaan who managed to mentally influence hundreds of Sith, even across the galaxy. Pretty sure he has more willpower than Malak.

@wollfmyth209: A mere Star Map caused a civil war between the ancient Sith. Ajunta Pall stated Revan would regret it if he found the Star Map, suggesting it was beyond Pall's comprehension.

The entire Star Forge is millions of times more powerful, and all who attempted to tap into it were instantly devoured. Malak could casually drain the Forge operating at 300%, suggesting infinitely more willpower than Karness Muur, Ajunta Pall, Sorzus Syn, Remulus Dreypa, XoXaan, and the entire Rakatan Infinite Empire combined. Even small chunks of the Star Forge corrupted Lehon so profoundly it became a dark side nexus far more potent than Korriban, and made Darth Bane feel light-headed. Of course I'm not suggesting that PoD and DoE Bane are equal in willpower, but it is still worth mentioning.

Malak has also resisted Nathema, which had the power to reduce even Meetra Surik to trillions of subatomic particles. And Surik had top-tier willpower feats, like replenishing Revan everytime his strength faltered in his mental war against Vitiate and the Dread Masters.

Zannah is not going to break Malak by any means, though she will drive him to his knees and make him scream.

@azronger:

A mere Star Map caused a civil war between the ancient Sith. Ajunta Pall stated Revan would regret it if he found the Star Map, suggesting it was beyond Pall's comprehension.

It doesn't suggest that, at all. lol. Saying Revan will regret finding the Star Map which has some "incredible power" doesn't mean Pall cannot comprehend the Star Map, especially when he's implied to be comparable to the likes of Exar Kun.

The entire Star Forge is millions of times more powerful,

Very hyperbolic statement.

and all who attempted to tap into it were instantly devoured. Malak could casually drain the Forge operating at 300%, suggesting infinitely more willpower than Karness Muur, Ajunta Pall, Sorzus Syn, Remulus Dreypa, XoXaan, and the entire Rakatan Infinite Empire combined.

And this is ridiculous. Especially since Malak was more amplified by the Star Forge than hindered. Plus he could replenish his powers by draining Jedi, IIRC.

Even small chunks of the Star Forge corrupted Lehon so profoundly it became a dark side nexus far more potent than Korriban, and made Darth Bane feel light-headed. Of course I'm not suggesting that PoD and DoE Bane are equal in willpower, but it is still worth mentioning.

Correction: the temple of Lehon made Bane feel light-headed. Lehon itself just made him feel more power in the Dark Side than Korriban.

Malak has also resisted Nathema, which had the power to reduce even Meetra Surik to trillions of subatomic particles.

I don't recall him every resisting Nathema.

And Surik had top-tier willpower feats, like replenishing Revan everytime his strength faltered in his mental war against Vitiate and the Dread Masters.

That's more Force Healing or Battle Mind or Battle Meditation than willpower.

Zannah is not going to break Malak by any means, though she will drive him to his knees and make him scream.

So make a big enough opening to kill him, then?

I'm going to go with Team 1, 6/10. At this point Bane is frighteningly powerful, and Zannah is not far behind. Revan and Malak are also the greatest of their age, so this would be a close fight, but I believe that Team 1 could pull it off for the majority.

Do we actually have.. calcs? Or are we just making useless 'feats' based guesses as is typical for a Vs discussion?

Team 2 wins. In path of destruction it's said that Bane learn more with Revan's holocron than his entire training with the order. Revan, even as Darth Revan, is too powerful for him. Malak can win, or at least hold zannah umtil Revan kills Bane.

@ffp: his level of Force Knowledge does not dictate his level of Force Power. Plus Bane obtained knowledge from multiple different holocrons after that point. In the end your argument fails because of a lack of calcs

@banthabot: How are "guesses based on feats" any different than a calc?

Revie and Mally

@thevivas: This is going to devolve into 'feats' isn't it? I just know it is. You're not instilling confidence in me, man. Lmao

Are you saying out of universe calcs are supposed to be more reliable than in-universe logic? Because if so have fun arriving at some of the most hilarious conclusions ever.