Darth Bane Runs The Gauntlet

@wollfmyth: I want to continue but real life issues are on me.

But regarding the Bakura duel, I'm pretty sure it was immediately after the Battle of Geonosis, when Dooku fled from his fight from Yoda, and Tholme and Bulq were secretly locating Dooku's base so they can assassinate him. Tholme claimed that he could feel Dooku's exhaustion from the battle, so I don't think its months after.

That's why I was hesitant to get on Comicvine, because I don't have the time to post lengthy arguments, nor do I own any scans myself to back my points.

Again you are evading everything I said in my comment. I am talking about the essence of the rule of two, which is not to improve combatively with every new generation but to defeat the Jedi through manipulation, cunning,... (the way Palpatine destroyed the Jedi order in ROTS).

I am completely aware what your comment as a whole was about, I was just debunking one of the arguments you used to support it, because my comment specifically responds to the following words:

So every generation there is a giant pool of extremely powerful force sensitive's from which the master can choose amd just everytime choses an aporentice that is a little bit more powerful then him/her and not far more powerful. Considering it repeated itself for 1000 years, the chances are extremely small to none existend.

That is a statement that also stands by itself.

I see.

The comic notes it's shortly after the battle of Geonosis. So a day or so, to be safe. What Tholme claims could also be a simple Dun Moch attempt, albeit it could also be Dooku getting tired.

That's why I was hesitant to get on Comicvine, because I don't have the time to post lengthy arguments,

Understandable.

nor do I own any scans myself to back my points.

Hmm, well it's always a disadvantage to not have sources, but you can go here and download a good deal of SW books: http://www.hungry-ewok.ru/sw/all_books.htm

Are we seriously using Tuk'ata as a power scaler? Because Exar Kun, before accepting the Dark Side, slaughterhoused 30 of them on Korriban.

Jedi!Kun > PoD!Bane confirmed?

@sithrevenant: A good feat for Kun. And Jedi Kun very well could be superior to Bane as of early in PoD. However, Bane did have negative circumstances by this time and this was done well before his capability to actually compete with Kas'im.

Beggars can't be choosers.

@sithrevenant: that was Bane noticeably before his POD peak, as he wouldn't stand a chance against Kas'im holding back with a saberstaff at that point, yet drove Kas'im into a desperate retreat when Kas'im was fighting to his full ability with a saberstaff later on.

Also I'm given to understand that Kun's slaughter was a force feat while Bane's was strictly a saber feat, making the two of them kinda difficult to compare, but please correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

@wollfmyth: also worth mentioning they had him surrounded when they attacked, something that would've made fending them off all the more difficult given their strategic abilities, unpredictability, and their ability to keep fighting after sustaining lightsaber injuries.

@emperordmb: @wollfmyth: Do you have the quote on Anakin vs the Tuk'ata?

@zapan87:

Kun is harder, better, faster, stronger than Bane in any setting.

There's only one hindrance:

Kun merely adopted the dark. Bane was born in it, molded by it. He didn't see the light until he was already a grown man. By then it was nothing to him but blinding.

@londonbfr:

Kun merely adopted the dark. Bane was born in it, molded by it. He didn't see the light until he was already a grown man. By then it was nothing to him but blinding.

Yet Kun still became more powerful. Not seeing how this is relevant. :catprone

@brightsteel:

You didn't get it lol.

@londonbfr: Is there anything to get?

Alright my mistake.

Darth Bane could never have predicted that every following sith had a higher MD count/more raw power then the previous sith, his rule isn't about that. I just find it extremely odd that it would occur yet that's not my only argument to support my previous comment.

@brightsteel: He was referring to Bane from the Dark Knight Rises, not Darth Bane zzz

@noobsnowman: Ah, no wonder I didn't get it. Never seen that movie. :catprone

lol, yes you have. everyone has seen the Dark Night trilogy.

reference:

@londonbfr: Exar Kun really dosen't stand a chance against Bane.

Darth Revan is uber powerful, flawed logic Darth (like usual).

@darthant66:

No. He never specifically said which Revan. A fan asked him who wins between Darth Revan, Darth Bane and Darth Vader. But seeing as how a majority of people refer to Revan as Darth Revan even when he's reborn, it could've easily meant prime Revan, or Revan from the novel.

@i_like_swords: DoE might beat Dooku, but he likely loses. Orbalisk can go 50/50 with Tenebrous and then lose to Revan in a close fight.

DOE Bane>ROT Bane and either beat Dooku

@darthant66: Oh, alrighty then.

Based on what?

As far as force abilities are concerned, A force wave powerful enough to collapse the temple of ancients and liquefy Kas'im, a force wave powerful enough to disintegrate a dozen technobeasts, and lightning powerful enough to disintegrate people.

As far as martial combat goes, saber soloing a dozen Tuk'ata in a disadvantageous circumstance prior to the vast martial improvement he got to take on Kas'im, followed by vast physical improvement and vast improvement in his command of the force which relates to martial combat. Also a way to repel Dooku's strikes should they bypass his saber defenses (orbalisks for ROT, lightning cocoon for DOE)

As far as DOE>ROT Bane goes, it's due to a marked difference in their physical capabilities demonstrated in their respective fights with Zannah.

How about the fact that Bane outright says it himself?

The aging process was subtle, but inescapable. Bane accepted this; what he lost in strength and speed he could easily compensate for with wisdom, knowledge, and experience.

Source: Dynasty of Evil

He says himself that his strength is only a "fraction" weaker, the same as his speed, which is only a fraction slower. These are mainly due to age + the damage done to his body by overusing the Force. But just look at his feats done with the armor on and off. In RoT, he incinerates people with it. In DoE, he incinerates people with it while hampered by a Force-weakening ability.

Force wave powerful enough to bring down a temple and liquefy someone before his peak. Lightning powerful enough to disintegrate peeps. Better physical feats in virtually every category. More skilled duelist. Etc.

@emperordmb:

A force wave powerful enough to collapse the temple of ancients and liquefy Kas'im,

The temple collapsed via implosion, not to mention Bane had charged up his Force energy and was augmented by dark side energies that almost made him faint, if I remember correctly. Not the most valid showing. Kas'im was a skilled swordsman but nothing indicates he was strong as a Force wielder; Bane's later musings about the weakness of the brotherhood doesn't help.

a force wave powerful enough to disintegrate a dozen technobeasts,

Bane was once again augmented by external dark side energies, I believe, not to mention the technobeasts were of questionable condition. That said, good feat, although neither Bane nor Dooku is gonna be TK'ing the other.

and lightning powerful enough to disintegrate people.

Bane's lightning is stronger than Dooku's but it was still dodged by Hetton. It's not a game changer by any means.

As far as martial combat goes, saber soloing a dozen Tuk'ata in a disadvantageous circumstance prior to the vast martial improvement he got to take on Kas'im, followed by vast physical improvement and vast improvement in his command of the force which relates to martial combat.

Who the hell cares about Tuk'ata's? They're beasts with no defense against a lightsaber.

Bane doesn't really have anything on Dooku's 60+ years of Force- and lightsaber mastery and his wealth of feats and accolades.

That's cool, but I was asking on Bane vs. Dooku. Consider your efforts... irrelevant.

I can't section quote with my phone, so bear with me on that one.

"The temple collapsed via implosion, not to mention Bane had charged up his Force energy and was augmented by dark side energies that almost made him faint, if I remember correctly. Not the most valid showing. Kas'im was a skilled swordsman but nothing indicates he was strong as a Force wielder; Bane's later musings about the weakness of the brotherhood doesn't help."

As soon as Bane gets two orbalisks in ROT and draws on them for power, he is stated to be more powerful than he had ever been before, including when he was on Lehon, and ROT and DOE Bane are both easily more powerful than early ROT, so whether or not the nexus had any impact on his abilities on Lehon is ultimately completely and utterly irrelevant as to whether or not he can reproduce the feat in ROT or DOE. And considering that level of destruction is generally what we see from the likes of Vader (Lyleks) and Plagueis (Maladians), I'd say you're underestimating the feat, and it's easily within his grasp as of ROT and DOE.

"Bane was once again augmented by external dark side energies, I believe, not to mention the technobeasts were of questionable condition. "

Bane's superior physical capabilities in DOE demonstrate that he has greater force power than he did in ROT, even in Belia Darzu's fortress when he fought the Tython strike team, so again, the amp, if it even exists, is ultimately irrelevant to DOE Bane's ability to replicate it.

"Bane's lightning is stronger than Dooku's but it was still dodged by Hetton. It's not a game changer by any means."

You could use that line of thought to argue lightning is meaningless in any confrontation, which it clearly isn't. Especially considering Bane can use it to block Dooku's lightning strikes via lightning cocoon.

"Who the hell cares about Tuk'ata's? They're beasts with no defense against a lightsaber."

Considering a group of ten Tuk'ata in 23 BBY posed a significant challenge to a group of eight Jedi, including five of the order's best duelists, a group not too much larger than a dozen Tuk'ata would've occupied GM Luke, Jaina, and Ben long enough for Vestara to escape without any of them being able to stop her, and considering they have been known to keep fighting after tanking multiple hard lightsaber blows and as groups are stated to be capable of executing complex strategies and maneuvers and that they had Bane surrounded after Bane had been hiking through the blazing hot days and freezing cold nights of Korriban's desert for multiple days with no food or sleep, this is a feat that definitely shouldn't be disregarded as meaningless.

All I read was "DE > RoT" and thought you were asking for confirmation of that. My mistake.

@darkdefender: the TK was a game mechanic if I'm not mistaken, and the lightning, which didn't kill the two non-force sensitive protags btw, was before any of them mounted a defense against it.

Tearing through durasteel doors while drugged for strength, surviving being trapped in a bubble of his own force lightning with orbalisks chewing through his body and burrowing into his bones before expanding and exploding inside of him for durability, and being faster than Zannah could've ever imagined for speed (she's seen him fight as ROT Bane who is substantially faster than POD Bane who moved so fast a room of Sith who were almost masters couldn't see him.

@darkdefender: I mean they weren't blocking the lightning attack with their lightsabers, so it's no surprise they got downed by it.

They're still edges, and should put Bane ahead in martial combat and the durability should also aid him in exchange of force powers.

Right, it means he was faster than anyone she faced before... Including his previous incarnations who are also insanely fast, which is what I was getting at.

Yeah force barriers have always been sketchy at best against lightning.

Eh he has better physical and skill feats, so I'd say he's ahead in martial combat.

As far as Zannah goes, he did hold back while sparring, but in ROT she fought him in his orbalisk armor where he was completely bloodlusted so she has actually fought him all out while he had the orbalisk armor on.

It's generally a practice I take part in, but I don't really know if it works when I'm on my phone.

don't listen to emperordmb lol he gets angry when you remove his mod status a forum he jus joined

@darkdefender: well his vast improvement from the Tuk'ata feat, his performance against Kas'im, and flooring Raskta Lsu with unpredictability before retooling his style around unpredictability come to mind.

And as the text says "ever imagined" I'd say it refers to Zannah even considering ROT Bane's abilites, especially considering his strength feats in DOE are better (considering he staggered DOE Zannah in DOE with overhand chops while he didn't do so to ROT Zannah in ROT when literally jumping up high in the air and pouncing on her when she was desperate.

@freshestslice: I had been on that forum for a year and a half and that was like 2 years ago... Hardly representative of the person I am now, and in no way does it relate to my debating ability.

I actually don't know how you even know about that tbh