Darth Bane Runs The Gauntlet

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Darth Malgus

Count Dooku

Darth Tenebrous

Revan

Exar Kun

Darth Plagueis

Yoda

  • Everyone at their peak (whether this is DoE or Orbalisk Bane is up to you. Let's say either incarnation runs the gauntlet once each).
  • Bane is fully healed after each round.
  • Canon and Legends can be used with Legends taking priority for any continuity issues.
  • Standard gear.
  • No prior knowledge.
  • Fights are to the death, KO or incapacitation.
  • Location is the petranaki arena.
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LondonBFR

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#3  Edited By LondonBFR

@i_like_swords said:
  1. Darth Malgus
  2. Count Dooku
  3. Darth Tenebrous
  4. Revan
  5. Exar Kun
  6. Darth Plagueis
  7. Yoda

Everyone at their peak

Stops at 1...

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WollfMyth

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Darth Malgus

Wins.

Count Dooku

Wins.

Darth Tenebrous

Canonically far above him in power. But how skillfully he applies this power in combat is questionable... eh I'll say Teneb.

Revan

Tie... because Drew Karpyshin said so.

Exar Kun

Losses. Unless you apply power-scaling from Rivan/Odion in which case he could win.

Darth Plagueis

Plagy humiliates.

Yoda

Eh, he's probably fast/skilled enough to last 10-20 seconds. But gets humiliated.

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noobsnowman

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Stops at Dooku for both versions.

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WollfMyth

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#6  Edited By WollfMyth
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Pharoh_Atem

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noobsnowman

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#8  Edited By noobsnowman

@wollfmyth: I don't think DoE Bane has any combative showings to suggest that he is on Dooku's level. Orbelisk Bane would make Dooku work for that victory, though.

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LondonBFR

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noobsnowman

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@londonbfr: Malgus isn't choking someone as strong in the force as Bane, lol.

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LondonBFR

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@londonbfr: Malgus isn't choking someone as strong in the force as Bane, lol.

You're right. He has the potential to choke out two banes.

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deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

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And we're off to a flying start.

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Stops at Dooku

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noobsnowman

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WollfMyth

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@noobsnowman: I'd think stomping a dozen Tukata after days without food, water and hiking(two Tukata giving Anakin circa AoTC trouble); then later proceeding to beat canonically the greatest duelist of the Brotherhood(Kas'im) in a duel until the latter resorted to unorthodox tactics(one Brotherhood Sith like Kaox Krul could slaughter entire colonies); then steamrolling several Jedi champions and being stated as more than capable of easily plowing through Raskta(the greatest duelist of the Jedi Order at the time) if she didn't have Battle Meditation; and then growing ever more skilled and advanced by DoE is enough to suggest comparable skill to Dooku. Add to that physical advantage, form advantage, knowledge advantage, and power advantage Bane possesses over Dooku and I'd say he wins.

Also, Malgus' game mechanic feats are not worth bringing up. His only canonically correct TK hit on the strike team at the time was a simple Force Push while they were unprepared.

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noobsnowman

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@wollfmyth: Honestly I don't think his fight against Kas'im should be overstated because firstly he had full knowledge of Kas'im's double bladed fighting style through training sessions, and secondly Kas'im is featless outside off accolades. Didn't DoE Bane only stalemate Zannah, and only took the upper hand due to superior physical strength? Besides, Dooku has shown to be able to deal with those with superior form and physical advantages to himself, so Bane isn't bringing anything new to the table. But Bane is definitely the more tenacious fighter given the examples you shown, just that I don't think it is sufficient to edge him over Dooku in a fight.

And I never said that Malgus would beat Bane in a fight.

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Pharoh_Atem

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@dccomicsrule2011:

Force choke gg

Bane collapse a temple on top of his head, KEK.

Anyway, he isn't getting past Tenebrous in round in DoE incarnation (possibly dies at Dooku), and he loses to Tenebrous. With the Orbalisk he clears the rounds before, and he dies at Revan.

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LondonBFR

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#19  Edited By LondonBFR

@wollfmyth: That's right. All four were unprepared despite their clairvoyance, that of which has a keen sense for oncoming force attacks.

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WollfMyth

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@noobsnowman:

Honestly I don't think his fight against Kas'im should be overstated because firstly he had full knowledge of Kas'im's double bladed fighting style through training sessions,

And Kas'im knew his style. Plus, Bane noted Kas'im was holding back his full skill in spars:

Parrying the first sequence Bane realized his former Master had always been holding something in reserve . . .

Source: Path of Destruction

and secondly Kas'im is featless outside off accolades.

Accolades and canonical sources pitting him as far above people who slaughtered colonies of warriors, or people who've humiliated some of the best Sith apprentices of the top Korriban academy(Korriban's academies being the best of the Sith) should mark him as a highly skilled warrior.

Didn't DoE Bane only stalemate Zannah, and only took the upper hand due to superior physical strength?

Yes, and? His form was still perfected from what it was in Rule of Two and Zannah notes this. He's more skilled now than he was then. And that's a good feat for Zannah, ngl.

Besides, Dooku has shown to be able to deal with those with superior form and physical advantages to himself,

Right. But almost every time someone with both a superior Force connection and physical capabilities(i.e. Yoda and Anakin) he's been defeated. He can make up for his inferior physical traits via superior Force power. But when he's met with someone of superior Force as well so he couldn't augment himself to match them, the old man crumbles.

so Bane isn't bringing anything new to the table. But Bane is definitely the more tenacious fighter given the examples you shown, just that I don't think it is sufficient to edge him over Dooku in a fight.

Well, comparing Bane and Anakin's feats against the Tukata, and noting that Anakin around that time frame impressed Dooku, I'd say Bane would also impress the Count. And this is Bane early in PoD, where he got stomped by Kas'im in sparring matches. Scale that up to Bane driving Kas'im back at the end of PoD and improving considerably by the time of DoE and I'd say he'd give Dooku hell in a pure lightsaber duel, even if he doesn't win. Also, Bane's connection to the Force actually allowed him to defeat a "technically" more skilled duelist like Kas'im in a pure duel:

He drove Kas’im back with furious slashes, forcing his old mentor into a backpedaling retreat across the floor of the chamber. Kas’im flipped back and out through the door into the hall beyond, but Bane was relentless in his pursuit, leaping forward and coming within a centimeter of landing a crippling blow to the Twilek’s leg.

His strike was turned aside at the last second, but he quickly followed it up with another series of powerful thrusts and stabs. The Blademaster continued to give ground, pushed inexorably back by the raging storm of Bane’s onslaught. Each time he tried to change tactics or switch forms, Bane anticipated, reacted, and seized the advantage.

The outcome was inevitable. Bane was simply too strong in the Force.

Source: Path of Destruction

So I wouldn't rule Bane's chances of beating Dooku in a duel at all.

And I never said that Malgus would beat Bane in a fight.

I was referring to @londonbfr

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Stops at Tenny.

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cs_zoltan

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Well, comparing Bane and Anakin's feats against the Tukata, and noting that Anakin around that time frame impressed Dooku, I'd say Bane would also impress the Count.

You know they both fought the Tuk'atas on Korriban, which is a dark side nexus?

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Makashi

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Emperordmb

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#24  Edited By Emperordmb

@cs_zoltan: you know Anakin got injured in a one v one with one and had help from seven other Jedi against the group of ten while Bane soloed a dozen after days of hiking with no food or sleep and received no injury?

That's far more a disparity than can be accounted for by the nexus excuse.

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GeorgeWBush

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#25  Edited By GeorgeWBush
@wollfmyth said:

@noobsnowman: I'd think stomping a dozen Tukata after days without food, water and hiking(two Tukata giving Anakin circa AoTC trouble); then later proceeding to beat canonically the greatest duelist of the Brotherhood(Kas'im) in a duel until the latter resorted to unorthodox tactics(one Brotherhood Sith like Kaox Krul could slaughter entire colonies); then steamrolling several Jedi champions and being stated as more than capable of easily plowing through Raskta(the greatest duelist of the Jedi Order at the time) if she didn't have Battle Meditation; and then growing ever more skilled and advanced by DoE is enough to suggest comparable skill to Dooku. Add to that physical advantage, form advantage, knowledge advantage, and power advantage Bane possesses over Dooku and I'd say he wins.

Also, Malgus' game mechanic feats are not worth bringing up. His only canonically correct TK hit on the strike team at the time was a simple Force Push while they were unprepared.

Too bad beating beasts with a lightsaber really says nothing about his ability to beat a force wielding duelist. Kas'im isn't as skilled as Zallow who could scores of the Sith empire's best warriors/stomp Adraas /stomping Kao who killed Vindican/hold off Malgus, or being one of the Sith Empire's greatest warriors 30 years before his prime- and Bane never beat Raskta by virtue of skill he was amped and protected by orbalisks rendering her lightsaber strikes all but useless.

Malgus and Dooku would have zero difficulty stomping anyone from Bane's era

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@wollfmyth: About Darth Tenebrous being far more powerful then Bane: That statement would be based on the fact that every Banite sith became more powerful. Yet after reading the Bane trilogy, Plagueis novel and logical thinking there are a few conclusions that can be drawn from it regarding the peeviously mentioned statement.

The term "power" has different meanings throughout/in every novel(Bane trilogy, Plagueis), from 'true power of the dark side' which consists of manipulation, cunning,... (for example when Darth Bane applauds Githany's attempt to poisin him and disregards Kas'im's attempt to challange him directly because of honor) to knowledge (from Force knowledge to political knowledge/influence). The Banite sith did indeed advance in power but the question remains what kind of power because the Banite sith order is invented to defeat the Jedi through cunning and manupilation instead of in pure combative way. Secondly, it would be extremely coincidencial if every new apprentice just happend to have a greater force potential then his/her master(the chances of that happening would be extremely small).

So from these facts, every Banite sith did advance in power but not always in a combative way. If every Banite sith after Bane would be more combatively powerful, they would all be among the most powerful sith in history(because Bane is listed as such) and this would again mean that Bane isn't anymore(because there would be 20+ sith more powerful as you).

To just use the statement to decide the outcome of almost every Banite sit battle is a little bit short sighted to my opinion.

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Sidious06

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@wollfmyth: Secondly, it would be extremely coincidencial if every new apprentice just happend to have a greater force potential then his/her master(the chances of that happening would be extremely small).

Sure, the chances might be small if the amount of people to choose from was roughly equal to, say, the population of earth, but we're talking about one person being chosen from an entire galaxy of beings, most of which are in some way connected to the force.

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WollfMyth

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@darthduelist9: That one beast gave Anakin and Obi-Wan trouble circa 22BBY, so I'd say it speaks to Bane being superior. Kas'im's pretty insanely skilled, bro. I mean, being canonically better than someone who could slaughter colonies of warriors, or someone like Odion. Adraas has nothing really going for him. Not even accolades on Kas'im's level. Also, Malgus only "stomped" Darach while the latter was tired and Kao pretty much demonstrated his superiority to Malgus just prior.

And the novel noted Bane would've trampeled her had it not been for Battle Meditation in just pure dueling alone. The Orbalisk was a bonus. And I'd say being canonically the best Jedi in a time of an extreme war against a Sith Empire holds some merit.

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cs_zoltan

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@wollfmyth: Secondly, it would be extremely coincidencial if every new apprentice just happend to have a greater force potential then his/her master(the chances of that happening would be extremely small).

Except it's not a coincidence. The master picked an apprentice who had the potential to be more powerful than himself, and if the apprentice failed to live up to that he died. Not really complicated.

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swiftbullet

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He win the first round with some difficulty and stalemates round 2.

So he stops at round 2.

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GeorgeWBush

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#31  Edited By GeorgeWBush

@wollfmyth: Kas'im has nothing but Bane's opinion that he's any good, and Kaan's order didn't produce any noteworthy warriors compared to the Sith Empire which produced the likes of Darth Marr, Darth Baras, Emperor's Wrath, and Malgus ranked great amongst them well before the events in Deceived. Prove Kao was tired and even then he was holding off multiple opponents, whereas, Kas'im has nothing other than being driven back by a less skilled opponent and had to resort to using an unfamiliar lightsaber form and cheat to win. When did Kao ever show superiority to Malgus, he kept him at arms length the entire duel and had Satele fight him and when he beat her he promptly slaughtered Kao in short order. Zallow being regarded as Malgus's greatest kill places him above Kao, who has better skill feats than Kas'im overall.

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WollfMyth

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@burnface: Kas'im praise also came from third person sources which mark him as the most skilled of the Brotherhood. And I'm pretty sure Kaan himself would know who's the best in his brotherhood, and he considers Kas'im the best.

@burnface said:

Prove Kao was tired

You're kidding me right?

and even then he was holding off multiple opponents, whereas, Kas'im has nothing other than being driven back by a less skilled opponent and had to resort to using an unfamiliar lightsaber form and cheat to win.

The opponent was Bane... You're using circular debating. You're saying Bane sucks because he had trouble with Kas'im who sucks because he was losing to Bane. And that's a good feat for Bane, not a bad one for Kas'im all things considered. Plus he was his solid inferior in the Force, which aided Bane further. It shows that Bane's good, not that Kas'im(who objective source and Kaan, and Githany and Kaan have placed as a master level duelist). And Kao also used an unfamiliar tactic and only cut Vindican down via cheapshot.

When did Kao ever show superiority to Malgus, he kept him at arms length the entire duel and had Satele fight him and when he beat her he promptly slaughtered Kao in short order

You're kidding right? Are you forgetting when Darach took on Jar'Kai and kept outmanuvering the Sith and killed Vindican before Malgus can save him?

. Zallow being regarded as Malgus's greatest kill places him above Kao, who has better skill feats than Kas'im overall.

No. Kao really has nothing besides fighting two featless Sith to suggest anything. Kas'im being canonically the best duelist of a waring Sith Empire(besides Bane) should mark him as superior. I will concede Zallow might beat Kas, but that only leads to Malgus > PoD Bane, not Malgus > DoE Bane who improved tremendously.

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Emperordmb

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#33  Edited By Emperordmb

Nah Wollf, Kas'im's vast superiority to the version of Bane that pulled off the Tuk'ata feat should put him above Zallow.

Another thing supporting Kas'im's high level of skill as a duelist.

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WollfMyth

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@emperordmb: I'd say killing fodder Sith > killing Tukata, tbh. But I suppose you could be right.

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Emperordmb

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@wollfmyth: eh I don't see ten fodder Sith giving much trouble to five of the Jedi order's best duelists and three other Jedi, one of whom has flawless teamwork with the best of those five.

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@cs_zoltan: you know Anakin got injured in a one v one with one and had help from seven other Jedi against the group of ten while Bane soloed a dozen after days of hiking with no food or sleep and received no injury?

That's far more a disparity than can be accounted for by the nexus excuse.

NEXUS

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@sidious06

@cs_zoltan

It is because it would imply that every generation there is a being extremely powerful in the force and would be just more powerful then his/her master. So every generation there is a giant pool of extremely powerful force sensitive's from which the master can choose amd just everytime choses an aporentice that is a little bit more powerful then him/her and not far more powerful. Considering it repeated itself for 1000 years, the chances are extremely small to none existend. But that isn't even the most important reason of my comment.

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Bat_Siri

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DOE Bane probably stops at Revan.

Orbaslisk stops at Exar

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GeorgeWBush

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#39  Edited By GeorgeWBush

@wollfmyth: : Kas'im praise also came from third person sources which mark him as the most skilled of the Brotherhood. And I'm pretty sure Kaan himself would know who's the best in his brotherhood, and he considers Kas'im the best.

I'm referring to Bane's own quote where he called him "possibly the best in the galaxy", which is unproven considering Bane wasn't aware of every duelist present.

You're kidding me right?

You're the one making the claim Kao is better than Malgus, when he was avoiding him for most of the duel/and Malgus was focusing more on Satele and Kao lost in short order after slaying Vindican.

The opponent was Bane... You're using circular debating. You're saying Bane sucks because he had trouble with Kas'im who sucks because he was losing to Bane. And that's a good feat for Bane, not a bad one for Kas'im all things considered. Plus he was his solid inferior in the Force, which aided Bane further. It shows that Bane's good, not that Kas'im(who objective source and Kaan, and Githany and Kaan have placed as a master level duelist). And Kao also used an unfamiliar tactic and only cut Vindican down via cheapsho

I never claimed "Bane sucks" I said that Kas'im was being driven back by a less skilled opponent and only win via cheating, it is a decent feat for Bane but hardly above Malgus defeating Kao and Satele in the same duel. The above text you cited for the duel between Bane and Kas'im also never credited his victory due to being more skilled, and he also had the aid of familiarity with Kas'im's form/constant practicin which helped him hold his own. I'm not sure how that's better than Malgus powering through Kao's telekinesis, holding his own against Kao's own unorthodox use of double lightsabers, and besting Satele.

You're kidding right? Are you forgetting when Darach took on Jar'Kai and kept outmanuvering the Sith and killed Vindican before Malgus can save him?

He wasn't outmaneuvering him? He deflected Vindican's lightning and it ricocheted and hit Malgus, and prior to that they only exchanged blades a handful of times with Malgus even deflecting his saber throw right back at him/focusing mainly on Satele. Kao had to utilize force abilities to keep Malgus away, he never directly outclassed him with the blade as was shown when Malgus killed him when utilizing Jar kai.

No. Kao really has nothing besides fighting two featless Sith to suggest anything. Kas'im being canonically the best duelist of a waring Sith Empire(besides Bane) should mark him as superior. I will concede Zallow might beat Kas, but that only leads to Malgus > PoD Bane, not Malgus > DoE Bane who improved tremendously.

Kas'im doesn't even have a victory on paper comparable to Kas'im fending off Malgus/Vindican at once and killing Vindican. Also his accolade really isn't holding water to Malgus being among the greatest warriors of the Sith Empire 28 years prior to Deceived, being the most powerful Darksider Satele had ever seen, and having actual skill feats even prior to Deceived where Kas'im really has nothing other than beating his own master who is featless. Also DOE Bane may have improved but not enough to suggest he is more skillful than Malgus, as he hadn't been in a duel for decades prior to fighting Zannah and the text only says he became more powerful not more skilled

Edit: I'm not even bringing up how Leneer actually performed better than Zallow, and he beat her twice..

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GeorgeWBush

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Nah Wollf, Kas'im's vast superiority to the version of Bane that pulled off the Tuk'ata feat should put him above Zallow.

Another thing supporting Kas'im's high level of skill as a duelist.

I'm not sure how beating beasts really says anything about fighting a lightsaber wielding opponent but ok? Its an ok feat but hardly above Malgus's more substantial record of skill feats in comparison to Bane hardly fighting anyone without an amp or nexus in a lightsaber duel.

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Emperordmb

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#41  Edited By Emperordmb

Achieving a martial feat beyond some of the best duelists in the Jedi Order as of 23 BBY way far off from one's peak is a whole hell of a lot more impressive than "okay"

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GeorgeWBush

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@emperordmb: Again show me how that would benefit him against a lightsaber wielding opponent, because Bane's list of skill feats is paltry in comparison to Malgus or Dooku's list of showings. How is beating a bunch if beasts that lack precognition, can't switch or utilize lightsaber forms in combat, and can't draw on their force/augment their physicals in response to lightsaber combat supposed to state anything about POD Bane's ability against force wielders.

Killing Fodder beasts with a saber isn't beyond Peak Dooku or Peak Malgus's abilities with a blade.

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cs_zoltan

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@cs_zoltan: you know Anakin got injured in a one v one with one and had help from seven other Jedi against the group of ten while Bane soloed a dozen after days of hiking with no food or sleep and received no injury?

That's far more a disparity than can be accounted for by the nexus excuse.

Wow, hiking. That must've been brutal. It's not like force users can go on for weeks without sleep or food...

And FYI the Jedi also fougt an army of droids before the Tuk'ata.

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Emperordmb

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If they are such "fodder" they wouldn't have performed as well as they did 10v8 against Jedi, wouldn't have killed Yoda's beloved Kybuck, and wouldn't have been a challenge for Luke Jaina and Ben.

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Sidious06

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@sidious06

@cs_zoltan

It is because it would imply that every generation there is a being extremely powerful in the force and would be just more powerful then his/her master. So every generation there is a giant pool of extremely powerful force sensitive's from which the master can choose amd just everytime choses an aporentice that is a little bit more powerful then him/her and not far more powerful. Considering it repeated itself for 1000 years, the chances are extremely small to none existend. But that isn't even the most important reason of my comment.

All it takes to measure a person's midichlorian count is a blood test. It's that simple, you know.

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freshestslice

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Malgus is useless. Bane beats him. After that, Bane loses every round regardless of his incarnation. He simply lacks the feats and accolades to win against a Dooku or a Plagueis and so on.

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LondonBFR

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#47  Edited By LondonBFR

The False Emperor still chokes him out.

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noobsnowman

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#48  Edited By noobsnowman

@wollfmyth said:

@noobsnowman:

Honestly I don't think his fight against Kas'im should be overstated because firstly he had full knowledge of Kas'im's double bladed fighting style through training sessions,

And Kas'im knew his style. Plus, Bane noted Kas'im was holding back his full skill in spars:

Parrying the first sequence Bane realized his former Master had always been holding something in reserve . . .

Source: Path of Destruction

and secondly Kas'im is featless outside off accolades.

Accolades and canonical sources pitting him as far above people who slaughtered colonies of warriors, or people who've humiliated some of the best Sith apprentices of the top Korriban academy(Korriban's academies being the best of the Sith) should mark him as a highly skilled warrior.

Didn't DoE Bane only stalemate Zannah, and only took the upper hand due to superior physical strength?

Yes, and? His form was still perfected from what it was in Rule of Two and Zannah notes this. He's more skilled now than he was then. And that's a good feat for Zannah, ngl.

Besides, Dooku has shown to be able to deal with those with superior form and physical advantages to himself,

Right. But almost every time someone with both a superior Force connection and physical capabilities(i.e. Yoda and Anakin) he's been defeated. He can make up for his inferior physical traits via superior Force power. But when he's met with someone of superior Force as well so he couldn't augment himself to match them, the old man crumbles.

so Bane isn't bringing anything new to the table. But Bane is definitely the more tenacious fighter given the examples you shown, just that I don't think it is sufficient to edge him over Dooku in a fight.

Well, comparing Bane and Anakin's feats against the Tukata, and noting that Anakin around that time frame impressed Dooku, I'd say Bane would also impress the Count. And this is Bane early in PoD, where he got stomped by Kas'im in sparring matches. Scale that up to Bane driving Kas'im back at the end of PoD and improving considerably by the time of DoE and I'd say he'd give Dooku hell in a pure lightsaber duel, even if he doesn't win. Also, Bane's connection to the Force actually allowed him to defeat a "technically" more skilled duelist like Kas'im in a pure duel:

He drove Kas’im back with furious slashes, forcing his old mentor into a backpedaling retreat across the floor of the chamber. Kas’im flipped back and out through the door into the hall beyond, but Bane was relentless in his pursuit, leaping forward and coming within a centimeter of landing a crippling blow to the Twilek’s leg.

His strike was turned aside at the last second, but he quickly followed it up with another series of powerful thrusts and stabs. The Blademaster continued to give ground, pushed inexorably back by the raging storm of Bane’s onslaught. Each time he tried to change tactics or switch forms, Bane anticipated, reacted, and seized the advantage.

The outcome was inevitable. Bane was simply too strong in the Force.

Source: Path of Destruction

So I wouldn't rule Bane's chances of beating Dooku in a duel at all.

I don't know how to specifically quote, so I guess you have to read my arguments in a huge slab of text.

When Kas'im opened the duel with Bane, he thought that Bane would be a weak opponent and wanted to end the duel quickly. Yes, Kas'im was holding back during training, this definitely speaks to levels of skill on Bane's part. Also, if I remember correctly, Lehon is also a force nexus that amplified Bane's powers, though to what degree is uncertain. Knowledge of an opponent plays sincerely more to the weaker opponent's advantage, as it would mean greater familiarity with the opponent's style, even if it was more masterfully employed.

Many characters such as Lord Hoth and Lord Scourge have similar accolades to Kas'im. But their abilities shouldn't be blown out of proportion to the point that the person who defeated him is a really impressive fighter, because in the end, there are numerous examples when a less experienced fighter defeated a fighter who has cleaved armies in the thousands for years. Kas'im is skilled, but how skilled is difficult to judge.

That still does not show that he is on Dooku's level, because I firmly don't believe Darth Zannah is on Dooku's league in terms of skill. Dooku has held his own against Obi Wan and Anakin in Season 6, and Anakin was said to become stronger since Ahsoka left the order. He defeated Jedi killers such as General Grevious and Asajj Ventress, and holding his own against Mace Windu at Boz Pity, plus many more of similar feats. I'm pretty sure Zannah struggled against Xaj during the battle of Tython, the only reason why she was even alive was because she was relying on Othone interfering with Xaj's movements constantly. Bane himself never really won a fight against a skilled opponent outside the sparring arena without external circumstances.

The question is, is Darth Bane the superior force wielder compared to Dooku? Most of Bane's strong showings are either when he was wearing the Orbelisk armour or when he was amplified by a Dark Side nexus. I'm not sure why you would bring Yoda as an example because he is Palpatine's class regarding mastery of the force. Anakin's case is different. Even after sustaining multiple blows that was said to be the force of a meteor strike, Dooku was able to react to openings instead of using the extra time to recuperate after being heavily taxed by Anakin's blows, taking Kenobi out of the fight. Also, Dooku augmented himself against the combined strength of Obi Wan and Anakin before that, so he was already taxed before Anakin's blows started to set in.

Also, while not fully recovered from his previous duel with Yoda, Dooku manhandled Tholme and Sora Bulq, the latter who was said to be Windu's peer in lightsaber combat, meaning that he has an extremely large amount of force reserves that cannot be easily taken advantage of no matter the physicality of the opponent, and even when tired he does not go down easily or fight suboptimally.

I fail to see what has 'impressing' Dooku got to do with this. During the 2003 Clone Wars series Ventress impressed Dooku by passing his tests, but when it comes to an actual fight with Dooku she was hopelessly outmatched. Even after under Dooku's tutelage and becoming considerably stronger, she fought him again and was easily defeated. When Dooku defeated Ventress in their first duel, Sidious noted that her lightsaber skills are "most impressive", yet, at no point can she ever remotely match the Dark Lord in combat. So calling someone's fighting skills impressive dosen't relate to actual fighting abilities years down the road.

Yet, Bane's superior strength in the force did not save him when Kas'im switched up his form, and it took years of Kas'im chanting his victory speech (exaggeration) for Bane to unleash the force wave that collasped the temple, he couldn't do it instinctively.

So I still stand by my point that Dooku still beats Darth Bane.

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WollfMyth

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#49  Edited By WollfMyth

@noobsnowman:

I don't know how to specifically quote, so I guess you have to read my arguments in a huge slab of text.

Just divide the quotes up.

When Kas'im opened the duel with Bane, he thought that Bane would be a weak opponent and wanted to end the duel quickly. Yes, Kas'im was holding back during training, this definitely speaks to levels of skill on Bane's part.

Indeed. It also speaks that he wasn't aware of Kas'im's fighting style completely.

Also, if I remember correctly, Lehon is also a force nexus that amplified Bane's powers, though to what degree is uncertain.

It also amped Kas'im as a Dark Side Nexus amps all Dark Siders, so that renders the point moot.

Knowledge of an opponent plays sincerely more to the weaker opponent's advantage, as it would mean greater familiarity with the opponent's style, even if it was more masterfully employed.

But both had knowledge of each other; heck, Kas'im would have more knowledge of Bane as he purposefully held back a good deal of sequences and his true skill from Bane.

Many characters such as Lord Hoth and Lord Scourge have similar accolades to Kas'im.

Only their accolades come from word of mouth, and only that. Kas'im's come from objective sources, and from the highest ranking characters of that time. His praize means something. And Lord Hoth has no accolade that places him as the greatest Jedi; that'd be Raskta Lsu.

But their abilities shouldn't be blown out of proportion to the point that the person who defeated him is a really impressive fighter, because in the end, there are numerous examples when a less experienced fighter defeated a fighter who has cleaved armies in the thousands for years.

Right, and that less experienced fighter always received praize for it.

Kas'im is skilled, but how skilled is difficult to judge.

Based on his accolades/stated powers and considering the Bane who performed the Tukata feat got stomped by Kas'im(only later in PoD would he actually match him) I'd say Jinn level, ngl.

That still does not show that he is on Dooku's level, because I firmly don't believe Darth Zannah is on Dooku's league in terms of skill.

Why not? Bane's on his level, and Zannah fended him off no problem.

Dooku has held his own against Obi Wan and Anakin in Season 6,

So have Savage Opress and Asajj Ventress.

and Anakin was said to become stronger since Ahsoka left the order.

And?

He defeated Jedi killers such as General Grevious and Asajj Ventress,

And he knew their styles inside out.

and holding his own against Mace Windu at Boz Pity,

For 30 seconds.

I'm pretty sure Zannah struggled against Xaj during the battle of Tython, the only reason why she was even alive was because she was relying on Othone interfering with Xaj's movements constantly.

This is Zannah more than decade before her prime. And fighting a BattleMaster(canonically the most skilled duelists among the Jedi) amped by Battle Meditation shouldn't be considered bad feat.

Bane himself never really won a fight against a skilled opponent outside the sparring arena without external circumstances.

And neither do his enemies. There's always Battle Meditation, or the nexus amping both.

The question is, is Darth Bane the superior force wielder compared to Dooku? Most of Bane's strong showings are either when he was wearing the Orbelisk armour or when he was amplified by a Dark Side nexus.

He became more powerful in DoE, however. And he also has some good feats while off-nexus and poisoned.

Even after sustaining multiple blows that was said to be the force of a meteor strike, Dooku was able to react to openings instead of using the extra time to recuperate after being heavily taxed by Anakin's blows, taking Kenobi out of the fight. Also, Dooku augmented himself against the combined strength of Obi Wan and Anakin before that, so he was already taxed before Anakin's blows started to set in.

When Dooku deflected Kenobi's and Anakin's combined blows, they were luring him into a trap and it seemed he was dominating. Then they unleashed their real skill and Anakin kept pushing Dooku back and Dooku simply couldn't augment himself enough to keep up. As it says:

Skywalker was all over him.

The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-Skywalker was getting stronger.

Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.

Source: Revenge of the Sith novel

Also, while not fully recovered from his previous duel with Yoda, Dooku manhandled Tholme and Sora Bulq,

While not fully recovered? That was months after his duel with Yoda. Are you actually implying Dooku was exhausted for months?

the latter who was said to be Windu's peer in lightsaber combat, meaning that he has an extremely large amount of force reserves that cannot be easily taken advantage of no matter the physicality of the opponent, and even when tired he does not go down easily or fight suboptimally.

He was Mace's peer in skill, not power, therefore there's no point in bringing it up. Plus, Mace was distressed when he had to fight him, as well.

I fail to see what has 'impressing' Dooku got to do with this. During the 2003 Clone Wars series Ventress impressed Dooku by passing his tests, but when it comes to an actual fight with Dooku she was hopelessly outmatched.

She was impressed by her duels against the enemies in the arena. Anakin impressed him by dueling him.

Even after under Dooku's tutelage and becoming considerably stronger, she fought him again and was easily defeated.

Because he knew her style inside out.

When Dooku defeated Ventress in their first duel, Sidious noted that her lightsaber skills are "most impressive", yet, at no point can she ever remotely match the Dark Lord in combat. So calling someone's fighting skills impressive dosen't relate to actual fighting abilities years down the road.

Again, he's not comparing Asajj to himself. Whereas Dooku is comparing Anakin to himself and notes that that's why he's impressive.

Yet, Bane's superior strength in the force did not save him when Kas'im switched up his form, and it took years of Kas'im chanting his victory speech (exaggeration) for Bane to unleash the force wave that collasped the temple, he couldn't do it instinctively.

Due to being unfamiliar, this means nothing really. And Dooku doesn't have any new trick to show Bane as of DoE. So it's irrelevant.

So I still stand by my point that Dooku still beats Darth Bane.

He really doesn't. Less powerful, less physically capable, less augmentatively capable and more skilled, but not by that much.

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DoE Bane stops at Dooku, but Orbalisk Bane has a chance of clearing him if the latter is overwhelmed by his relentless assaults. In that case, Tenebrous should beat him.