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#1 Edited by justanormalguy (114 posts) - - Show Bio

Jack Kirby's original Pre-Crisis incarnation of Darkseid, versus Watchman's god-like matter manipulator, versus Valiant Comics being of pure energy.

Victory at all costs, but staying within character morals.

#2 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Darkseid.

#3 Posted by Maxwell Lord the fourth (1320 posts) - - Show Bio

Doctor Solar very very easily

#4 Posted by JediXMan (31230 posts) - - Show Bio

Darkseid or Solar. Manhattan is out of his league.

Moderator
#5 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody knows what Manhattan can do. His only known weakness are tachyons and they aren't even real.

#6 Posted by justanormalguy (114 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam: @JediXMan: Don't know why you say that. We know what Manhattan can do. Feats really aren't a definite with characters like Manhattan. Debaters want so many feats, and argue about it. Really, ask the writers to give us more information about them. Until then, Manhattan is one of those characters where we get a taste of what he can do, and his powers are listed on wikis and forums. Feats really aren't needed for Manhattan.

#7 Posted by JediXMan (31230 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

Nobody knows what Manhattan can do. His only known weakness are tachyons and they aren't even real.

We know what he can do. Nobody seems to understand that. We saw it and he's not as powerful as everyone thinks he is, and until he is, he is to be treated as he has been shown.

Moderator
#8 Posted by JediXMan (31230 posts) - - Show Bio

@justanormalguy said:

@AweSam: @JediXMan: Don't know why you say that. We know what Manhattan can do. Feats really aren't a definite with characters like Manhattan. Debaters want so many feats, and argue about it. Really, ask the writers to give us more information about them. Until then, Manhattan is one of those characters where we get a taste of what he can do, and his powers are listed on wikis and forums. Feats really aren't needed for Manhattan.

.... yes, yes they are. The only characters who can get away without feats are beings like the One Above All and the Presence.

Any abilities that were not displayed in Watchmen are nothing more than Fan Fiction.

Moderator
#9 Posted by Saren (26016 posts) - - Show Bio

@justanormalguy said:

Feats really aren't needed for Manhattan.

This is the explanation every Manhattan fan gives to justify the notion of him beating characters he logically stands no chance against. No feats, no dice.

Moderator
#10 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

#11 Posted by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

Please not another one of these threads....

#12 Posted by Saren (26016 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

.....no.

Moderator
#13 Posted by JediXMan (31230 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

Prove he can destroy anything more durable than a tank.

@CitizenBane said:

@justanormalguy said:

Feats really aren't needed for Manhattan.

This is the explanation every Manhattan fan gives to justify the notion of him beating characters he logically stands no chance against. No feats, no dice.

This.

Moderator
#14 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

.....no.

....yes. He only has a hand full of abilities to work with, so I'm using what I can.

This is how the fight looks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhKp72c6xCY

#15 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

Prove he can destroy anything more durable than a tank.

@CitizenBane said:

@justanormalguy said:

Feats really aren't needed for Manhattan.

This is the explanation every Manhattan fan gives to justify the notion of him beating characters he logically stands no chance against. No feats, no dice.

This.

I can't, that's what I was trying to explain. No one knows what he can do, so there's no way we can compare.

#16 Posted by Saren (26016 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

.....no.

....yes. He only has a hand full of abilities to work with, so I'm using what I can.

This is how the fight looks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhKp72c6xCY

And again, no. Aside from regular human beings and tanks, Manhattan has never blown up anyone. Certainly not anyone with Uxas' durability. Not to mention Darkseid and Solar both have matter manipulation feats (that are a lot better than anything Manhattan's displayed).

Moderator
#17 Posted by Saren (26016 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan said:

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

Prove he can destroy anything more durable than a tank.

@CitizenBane said:

@justanormalguy said:

Feats really aren't needed for Manhattan.

This is the explanation every Manhattan fan gives to justify the notion of him beating characters he logically stands no chance against. No feats, no dice.

This.

I can't, that's what I was trying to explain. No one knows what he can do, so there's no way we can compare.

So if you have no idea what he can do, by what logic should it automatically be assumed that he's superior to Darkseid?

Moderator
#18 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

.....no.

....yes. He only has a hand full of abilities to work with, so I'm using what I can.

This is how the fight looks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhKp72c6xCY

And again, no. Aside from regular human beings and tanks, Manhattan has never blown up anyone. Certainly not anyone with Uxas' durability. Not to mention Darkseid and Solar both have matter manipulation feats (that are a lot better than anything Manhattan's displayed).

I can't prove he can beat them and you can't prove they can beat him. This thread is nothing.

#19 Posted by Saren (26016 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

.....no.

....yes. He only has a hand full of abilities to work with, so I'm using what I can.

This is how the fight looks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhKp72c6xCY

And again, no. Aside from regular human beings and tanks, Manhattan has never blown up anyone. Certainly not anyone with Uxas' durability. Not to mention Darkseid and Solar both have matter manipulation feats (that are a lot better than anything Manhattan's displayed).

I can't prove he can beat them and you can't prove they can beat him. This thread is nothing.

Not really. I can prove Darkseid beats Manhattan. You can't prove Manhattan beats Darkseid. Not the same thing.

Moderator
#20 Posted by JediXMan (31230 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan said:

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

Prove he can destroy anything more durable than a tank.

@CitizenBane said:

@justanormalguy said:

Feats really aren't needed for Manhattan.

This is the explanation every Manhattan fan gives to justify the notion of him beating characters he logically stands no chance against. No feats, no dice.

This.

I can't, that's what I was trying to explain. No one knows what he can do, so there's no way we can compare.

The tank is his greatest destructive feat. Anything above that is just fan fiction. If I want I can say that Rorschach survived and that's no more true than what you said.

Moderator
#21 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

.....no.

....yes. He only has a hand full of abilities to work with, so I'm using what I can.

This is how the fight looks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhKp72c6xCY

And again, no. Aside from regular human beings and tanks, Manhattan has never blown up anyone. Certainly not anyone with Uxas' durability. Not to mention Darkseid and Solar both have matter manipulation feats (that are a lot better than anything Manhattan's displayed).

I can't prove he can beat them and you can't prove they can beat him. This thread is nothing.

Not really. I can prove Darkseid beats Manhattan. You can't prove Manhattan beats Darkseid. Not the same thing.

How does he beat him? As of right now, since no weakness was stated, there is no possible weakness for Manhattan. What does Darkseid have that can kill Manhattan?

#22 Posted by Saren (26016 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

.....no.

....yes. He only has a hand full of abilities to work with, so I'm using what I can.

This is how the fight looks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhKp72c6xCY

And again, no. Aside from regular human beings and tanks, Manhattan has never blown up anyone. Certainly not anyone with Uxas' durability. Not to mention Darkseid and Solar both have matter manipulation feats (that are a lot better than anything Manhattan's displayed).

I can't prove he can beat them and you can't prove they can beat him. This thread is nothing.

Not really. I can prove Darkseid beats Manhattan. You can't prove Manhattan beats Darkseid. Not the same thing.

How does he beat him? As of right now, since no weakness was stated, there is no possible weakness for Manhattan. What does Darkseid have that can kill Manhattan?

Faulty logic. Just because no weakness was stated, it does not follow that there is no weakness. Omega Beams will work just fine.

Moderator
#23 Posted by Maxwell Lord the fourth (1320 posts) - - Show Bio

And what does Manhattan have that would even affect Darkseid;let alone Solar ?

#24 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

.....no.

....yes. He only has a hand full of abilities to work with, so I'm using what I can.

This is how the fight looks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhKp72c6xCY

And again, no. Aside from regular human beings and tanks, Manhattan has never blown up anyone. Certainly not anyone with Uxas' durability. Not to mention Darkseid and Solar both have matter manipulation feats (that are a lot better than anything Manhattan's displayed).

I can't prove he can beat them and you can't prove they can beat him. This thread is nothing.

Not really. I can prove Darkseid beats Manhattan. You can't prove Manhattan beats Darkseid. Not the same thing.

How does he beat him? As of right now, since no weakness was stated, there is no possible weakness for Manhattan. What does Darkseid have that can kill Manhattan?

Faulty logic. Just because no weakness was stated, it does not follow that there is no weakness. Omega Beams will work just fine.

That's faulty logic. For all we know, he's immune to it. I can say blowing him up would work fine, but that's untrue. Do you even know how a debate works? You need facts, not what you think is "fine".

#25 Posted by Saren (26016 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

.....no.

....yes. He only has a hand full of abilities to work with, so I'm using what I can.

This is how the fight looks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhKp72c6xCY

And again, no. Aside from regular human beings and tanks, Manhattan has never blown up anyone. Certainly not anyone with Uxas' durability. Not to mention Darkseid and Solar both have matter manipulation feats (that are a lot better than anything Manhattan's displayed).

I can't prove he can beat them and you can't prove they can beat him. This thread is nothing.

Not really. I can prove Darkseid beats Manhattan. You can't prove Manhattan beats Darkseid. Not the same thing.

How does he beat him? As of right now, since no weakness was stated, there is no possible weakness for Manhattan. What does Darkseid have that can kill Manhattan?

Faulty logic. Just because no weakness was stated, it does not follow that there is no weakness. Omega Beams will work just fine.

That's faulty logic. For all we know, he's immune to it. I can say blowing him up would work fine, but that's untrue. Do you even know how a debate works? You need facts, not what you think is "fine".

Is this a joke? Assuming Manhattan is immune to the Omega Beams when there is absolutely nothing to back that up with is fan fiction. There's an entire forum for that if you want. You can say blowing him up would work fine, but that's incorrect for reasons substantiated by canon. Your last sentence is hilarious. Please.

Moderator
#26 Posted by JediXMan (31230 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam:

Manhattan has never faced something like the Omega Effect, whereas Darkseid has faced matter manipulation. Your argument is invalid.

Moderator
#27 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

.....no.

....yes. He only has a hand full of abilities to work with, so I'm using what I can.

This is how the fight looks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhKp72c6xCY

And again, no. Aside from regular human beings and tanks, Manhattan has never blown up anyone. Certainly not anyone with Uxas' durability. Not to mention Darkseid and Solar both have matter manipulation feats (that are a lot better than anything Manhattan's displayed).

I can't prove he can beat them and you can't prove they can beat him. This thread is nothing.

Not really. I can prove Darkseid beats Manhattan. You can't prove Manhattan beats Darkseid. Not the same thing.

How does he beat him? As of right now, since no weakness was stated, there is no possible weakness for Manhattan. What does Darkseid have that can kill Manhattan?

Faulty logic. Just because no weakness was stated, it does not follow that there is no weakness. Omega Beams will work just fine.

That's faulty logic. For all we know, he's immune to it. I can say blowing him up would work fine, but that's untrue. Do you even know how a debate works? You need facts, not what you think is "fine".

Is this a joke? Assuming Manhattan is immune to the Omega Beams when there is absolutely nothing to back that up with is fan fiction. There's an entire forum for that if you want. You can say blowing him up would work fine, but that's incorrect for reasons substantiated by canon. Your last sentence is hilarious. Please.

This has to be the most ridiculous argument I've ever been in. You have no proof, I have no proof, no one has proof; done. And stop mentioning fan fiction, no one here reads those.

#28 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio

Doctor Solar there's nothing either can do to him, If Darkseid where to use his Omega Beams he could simply control them and throw them back at him, He could use Darkseid's mental energy against him as well. Dr.Manhattan is a being comprised of pure energy. Solar would easily just absorb him or dissipate him into nothingness. 

#29 Posted by Saren (26016 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane said:

@AweSam said:

@JediXMan: Okay, Manhattan blows them all up.

.....no.

....yes. He only has a hand full of abilities to work with, so I'm using what I can.

This is how the fight looks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhKp72c6xCY

And again, no. Aside from regular human beings and tanks, Manhattan has never blown up anyone. Certainly not anyone with Uxas' durability. Not to mention Darkseid and Solar both have matter manipulation feats (that are a lot better than anything Manhattan's displayed).

I can't prove he can beat them and you can't prove they can beat him. This thread is nothing.

Not really. I can prove Darkseid beats Manhattan. You can't prove Manhattan beats Darkseid. Not the same thing.

How does he beat him? As of right now, since no weakness was stated, there is no possible weakness for Manhattan. What does Darkseid have that can kill Manhattan?

Faulty logic. Just because no weakness was stated, it does not follow that there is no weakness. Omega Beams will work just fine.

That's faulty logic. For all we know, he's immune to it. I can say blowing him up would work fine, but that's untrue. Do you even know how a debate works? You need facts, not what you think is "fine".

Is this a joke? Assuming Manhattan is immune to the Omega Beams when there is absolutely nothing to back that up with is fan fiction. There's an entire forum for that if you want. You can say blowing him up would work fine, but that's incorrect for reasons substantiated by canon. Your last sentence is hilarious. Please.

This has to be the most ridiculous argument I've ever been in. You have no proof, I have no proof, no one has proof; done. And stop mentioning fan fiction, no one here reads those.

Manhattan has done nothing to suggest he would be immune to the Omega Beams. Therefore there is no reason to believe he would be immune to them. Therefore he dies. That's all there is to it.

The only thing ridiculous about this argument is you deciding to attribute to Manhattan abilities that he's never displayed, ever. That's called fan fiction.

Moderator
#30 Posted by JediXMan (31230 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam:

Nothing he said is fan fiction. The argument does not work both ways.

Moderator
#31 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: Omg, I hate kids so much.

#32 Posted by JediXMan (31230 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane: Omg, I hate kids so much.

Immature and uncalled for insult.

Moderator
#33 Posted by Kal'smahboi (3572 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth said:
Doctor Solar there's nothing either can do to him, If Darkseid where to use his Omega Beams he could simply control them and throw them back at him, He could use Darkseid's mental energy against him as well. Dr.Manhattan is a being comprised of pure energy. Solar would easily just absorb him or dissipate him into nothingness. 
Manhattan's corporal form exists as energy. His being exists somewhere outside of that. I don't think you could definitely say that Doctor Solar can control or absorb where his consciousness exists.
#34 Posted by Maxwell Lord the fourth (1320 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam: His logic is totally accurate;yours on the other hand seems a bit faulty;and even if Manhattan somehow COULD(which he can't)affect Darkseid he would get destroyed by Solar.

#35 Posted by Saren (26016 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

@CitizenBane: Omg, I hate kids so much.

Cute.

Moderator
#36 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@Maxwell Lord the fourth: No, you don't seem to understand there is absolutely no logic to this whole argument. I'm just stating what he said, except I'm using it to defend Manhattan.

#37 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@Kal'smahboi said:
@geraldthesloth said:
Doctor Solar there's nothing either can do to him, If Darkseid where to use his Omega Beams he could simply control them and throw them back at him, He could use Darkseid's mental energy against him as well. Dr.Manhattan is a being comprised of pure energy. Solar would easily just absorb him or dissipate him into nothingness. 
Manhattan's corporal form exists as energy. His being exists somewhere outside of that. I don't think you could definitely say that Doctor Solar can control or absorb where his consciousness exists.
It actually would, because Solar exists on all planes of being.
#38 Posted by justanormalguy (114 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: I wouldn't put them in a league that they don't belong. TOAA or Presence or anyone. Just like Kami-Tenchi from anime was proven to not be as omnipotent as everyone thought. He did have a second of "normality" to him. I don't put any character in a league they don't belong. Manhattan is one of those characters that the writer's purposely want you to be like "Hm. This is a good taste of his powers, and based upon Manhattan's reactions and abilities, you know he can do more." That's how I will always take it. I don't make stuff up. I go with what the writer's give me.

@CitizenBane: They are fictional characters. You seem to be forgetting that. Ask the writers for more information if it's really that big of a deal. They won't pop out in reality and just show you their full power. It's the writer that does that.

#39 Edited by Maxwell Lord the fourth (1320 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam: Yeah;but the thing is that Darkseid did face Molecular manipulation(which is what the Doc does) before and prevail while Manhattan never faced someone on Darkseid's level.

#40 Posted by justanormalguy (114 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Faulty logic. Just because no weakness was stated, it does not follow that there is no weakness. Omega Beams will work just fine.

That comment is purely assumption-based. If you can't prove it, you will be a hypocrite.

#41 Posted by MrDirector786 (43636 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't know much about Solar so right now I am going with Darkseid, especially because this is Pre-Crisis Darkseid.

#42 Posted by JediXMan (31230 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

@Maxwell Lord the fourth: No, you don't seem to understand there is absolutely no logic to this whole argument. I'm just stating what he said, except I'm using it to defend Manhattan.

Again, doesn't work both ways. Darkseid has feats, Manhattan doesn't. So anything not shown in Watchmen is fan fiction. Nothing more.

@geraldthesloth:

What can Solar do, anyway? From my understanding, he's kinda like HoG Ion, am I correct?

Moderator
#43 Posted by JediXMan (31230 posts) - - Show Bio

@justanormalguy said:

@CitizenBane said:

Faulty logic. Just because no weakness was stated, it does not follow that there is no weakness. Omega Beams will work just fine.

That comment is purely assumption-based. If you can't prove it, you will be a hypocrite.

BINGO. Now go read your own post again and repeat that to yourself in the mirror.

Moderator
#44 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@Maxwell Lord the fourth: Manhattan still has no weakness yet, so you can't just say it'll work because you think it will.

#45 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan: On steroids, he controls EVERYTHING made of energy in his universe and on the outside of it. He's been able to destroy and recreate universes when he feels he needs to.
#46 Posted by justanormalguy (114 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

Again, doesn't work both ways. Darkseid has feats, Manhattan doesn't. So anything not shown in Watchmen is fan fiction. Nothing more.

Manhattan doesn't fall into the category you are putting him in.

It's not like I don't understand your argument. You want feats, but you won't get them, because Manhattan is a character that the writer's gave him a sense of "this is a taste of his power". That's how his character is.

#47 Posted by justanormalguy (114 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

BINGO. Now go read your own post again and repeat that to yourself in the mirror.

You really aren't making sense. Remember that these are fictional characters. I hope that is not flying over your head.....

#48 Posted by JediXMan (31230 posts) - - Show Bio

@justanormalguy:

And until he shows more, he is limited to the feats shown in Watchmen.

Moderator
#49 Edited by JediXMan (31230 posts) - - Show Bio

@justanormalguy said:

@JediXMan said:

BINGO. Now go read your own post again and repeat that to yourself in the mirror.

You really aren't making sense. Remember that these are fictional characters. I hope that is not flying over your head.....

Do not be condescending toward me. Thank you and good day.

Moderator
#50 Posted by justanormalguy (114 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: He does not fall into the category you put him in. He falls into what the writer's put him in.