Darkseid & Thanos vs Odin & Ares (DC)

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Epicbeast3000

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Team 2 stomps, Odin can take on darkseid and thanos at the same time, while Ares killed highfather a being equal to darkseid.

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TifaLockhart

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Marvel Odin and DC Ares win.

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Malevolent1

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Honestly, I don't know anything about DC's Ares...but I've heard he pimp slapped Wonder Woman around, which is impressive enough for me.

But with Odin, who is a confirmed galaxy buster? Seriously?

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Above, Odin's fight with Seth. Not sure how Thanos and Darkseid against Odin AND Ares can pull this off. Gotta go with Odin and Ares.

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TifaLockhart

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DC's Ares might rival his dad in power. And he killed Highfather.

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Freefa11

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@king_saturn: It looks like pretty much your entire defense of Darkseid's durability revolves around this idea of Superman being a PIS machine, but this is just wrong. First of all, if anyone actually deserves the title of "Mr PIS himself," it would be Karate Kid. But even with more serious characters, I would put Spiderman's PIS (which has allowed him to fight and even beat guys like Thor, Firelord, and Juggernaut) or Captain America's ("peak" human who can stand against Michael Korvac, one-shot the Enchantress, hurt Loki, cause Beyonder-empowered Doom to collapse in a sobbing heap) over Superman's.

I don't even really see where your argument comes from. Superman is a very strong character, and is meant to be, but there are many, many instances demonstrating other characters in DC possessing equal or nearly equal strength, such as Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Martian Manhunter, Orion, Lobo, Doomsday, and various others (not to mention all the other Kryptonians and Marvels running around).

Moreoever, we have seen many characters survive at least a hit or two from Superman (pretty much all of the characters I listed above have at least fought him for an extended time, if not actually defeated him), and he has certainly lost his share of fights.

Sorry, but your claims of excessive PIS for Superman are themselves highly exaggerated. Yes, stupid things like holding a black hole have happened, but that is more absurd because it is physically nonsense, rather than because of it's mass (which, as imperator showed, can easily and likely be far less than just the planet earth). And he was assisted by John Stewart; so are all the honor guard Green Lanterns PIS machines now too? And everyone else who's ever been shown to have comparable strength to Superman?

You're cherry picking one example of something ridiculous from a character with thousands of appearances, but that doesn't prove anything; just about every character at that level or beyond has feats that are just plain stupid lying around somewhere (Classic Drax once ripped the core of a star out with his hands; just think about how nonsensical that is for a second). The writers didn't even get the basics of the black hole right; the JL used magnetic fields to contain it, but EM fields don't affect the force of gravity, so everything about the situation was wrong just on a conceptual level. Also, even before they contained it, Batman was exposed to just as much of it as everyone else, and he was perfectly fine. Of course, Batman is a pretty good contender for "Mr. PIS Himself" as well, but then what are we supposed to do, claim that anyone who can hurt Batman is more powerful than being within 10 ft of a black hole?

All right, I'm kind of belaboring the point, but you're going to need more than one weak example to make an argument that everything Superman does is PIS, which means you also need a lot more than Superman's PIS to defend Darkseid's durability.

Of course, this is ignoring the fact that actually using PIS as a sound argument in the first place is completely unsound logic to begin with.

As far as Darkseid's offensive abilities go, well, for one, it is actually irrelevant as to whether or not he could take a hit from Odin, since it doesn't help his durability. However, Darkseid never used the Omega Beams on the Antimonitor, so there goes half your argument. The Spectre example is also pretty weak; it was one of the weakest versions of the Spectre, and he was basically very slightly irritated by the Omega Beams before easily overpowering and obliterating Darkseid. On the other hand, Darkseid has used the Omega Beams on Superman many times without being able to put him down, and they have also failed to kill Doomsday and have been blocked by Mary Marvel.

Darkseid has feats to compete with guys in the Superman-tier and Herald-tier, but Odin is way above that, and Darkseid's feats don't go nearly far enough to close the gap.

Alright, just did the math for the black hole that Superman was holding. Assuming average dust length of 4 micrometers (smallest average I found was .5 micrometers, largest was 254, so I went with for. nice and small, but not crushingly so), then the black hole has a mass of 2.697*10^21 kg. Which, assuming that Superman has a mass of 107 kg (assuming Dc.wikia is correct), means the black hole was exerting a force of 8.56*10^16 N. How does that force compare to other things?

I remember once doing the math as well and came up with something similar. It is worth noting that the mass you arrived at is around 2,000 times less than the earth, let alone multiple solar masses. It is also worth noting that Superman only held it for a brief time before John Stewart backed him up.

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King_Saturn

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@freefa11 said:

@king_saturn: It looks like pretty much your entire defense of Darkseid's durability revolves around this idea of Superman being a PIS machine, but this is just wrong. First of all, if anyone actually deserves the title of "Mr PIS himself," it would be Karate Kid. But even with more serious characters, I would put Spiderman's PIS (which has allowed him to fight and even beat guys like Thor, Firelord, and Juggernaut) or Captain America's ("peak" human who can stand against Michael Korvac, one-shot the Enchantress, hurt Loki, cause Beyonder-empowered Doom to collapse in a sobbing heap) over Superman's.

I don't even really see where your argument comes from. Superman is a very strong character, and is meant to be, but there are many, many instances demonstrating other characters in DC possessing equal or nearly equal strength, such as Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Martian Manhunter, Orion, Lobo, Doomsday, and various others (not to mention all the other Kryptonians and Marvels running around).

Moreoever, we have seen many characters survive at least a hit or two from Superman (pretty much all of the characters I listed above have at least fought him for an extended time, if not actually defeated him), and he has certainly lost his share of fights.

Sorry, but your claims of excessive PIS for Superman are themselves highly exaggerated. Yes, stupid things like holding a black hole have happened, but that is more absurd because it is physically nonsense, rather than because of it's mass (which, as imperator showed, can easily and likely be far less than just the planet earth). And he was assisted by John Stewart; so are all the honor guard Green Lanterns PIS machines now too? And everyone else who's ever been shown to have comparable strength to Superman?

You're cherry picking one example of something ridiculous from a character with thousands of appearances, but that doesn't prove anything; just about every character at that level or beyond has feats that are just plain stupid lying around somewhere (Classic Drax once ripped the core of a star out with his hands; just think about how nonsensical that is for a second). The writers didn't even get the basics of the black hole right; the JL used magnetic fields to contain it, but EM fields don't affect the force of gravity, so everything about the situation was wrong just on a conceptual level. Also, even before they contained it, Batman was exposed to just as much of it as everyone else, and he was perfectly fine. Of course, Batman is a pretty good contender for "Mr. PIS Himself" as well, but then what are we supposed to do, claim that anyone who can hurt Batman is more powerful than being within 10 ft of a black hole?

All right, I'm kind of belaboring the point, but you're going to need more than one weak example to make an argument that everything Superman does is PIS, which means you also need a lot more than Superman's PIS to defend Darkseid's durability.

Of course, this is ignoring the fact that actually using PIS as a sound argument in the first place is completely unsound logic to begin with.

As far as Darkseid's offensive abilities go, well, for one, it is actually irrelevant as to whether or not he could take a hit from Odin, since it doesn't help his durability. However, Darkseid never used the Omega Beams on the Antimonitor, so there goes half your argument. The Spectre example is also pretty weak; it was one of the weakest versions of the Spectre, and he was basically very slightly irritated by the Omega Beams before easily overpowering and obliterating Darkseid. On the other hand, Darkseid has used the Omega Beams on Superman many times without being able to put him down, and they have also failed to kill Doomsday and have been blocked by Mary Marvel.

Darkseid has feats to compete with guys in the Superman-tier and Herald-tier, but Odin is way above that, and Darkseid's feats don't go nearly far enough to close the gap.

Well actually that was not the entirety of my argument... I just got my jollies out of discussing it for a while and seeing what the others would say against it. Since you seem to continue a discussion which I thought was dead for almost a week now, I guess I can agree to the request. Now you say that the argument for Darkseid's durability is weak... well to some extent I would agree. The problem is I think the argument for Odin's so called one blast Galaxy Busting attack is also weak. We know he can be in battles that can cause Galactic destruction... but nothing to suggest he can one blast and a Galaxy be destroyed. Now because of this we have an issue of just how powerful are Odin's blast attacks ? And what could suffice as equal in blast power to show a possible match in power. See you can't use the Magic feats of Odin repairing a Galaxy or several Galaxies because those are Magic feats and not offensive attacks. So what could suffice to show Darkseid could tank attacks from Odin in your opinion ?

As far as Superman's PIS feats... obviously I was looking at the full history of Superman's feats... not just his recent stuff or stuff after COIE... but I know how upset you folks get when people bring up Pre Crisis Superman feats saying "It did not happen"... though I often find it funny to say this since realistically none of it happened... it's all fictional entertainment but I digress and you should understand the point of the Superman PIS comment better now considering what Silver Age Superman could do.

Of course I am cherry picking, everyone cherry picks... if you wanted to make a case for the Silver Surfer you would not use a low end feat for his power... and he has several of appearances too. I mean I don't even understand why you had to say this. As far as your next point, why should the writers get the math correct on a simply fictional event ? It's fiction, they don't have to have the math perfect because it's an impossible feat or event... technically all of the characters we are dealing with here in this discussion is of complete fictional nature and supernatural power beyond human standards so again... the math and the logic has to go out the window because we are talking about people holding Black Holes...

Well technically the argument was not that everything Superman does is PIS... more so that Superman's level of strength is undefined and of a heavy PIS status... and that's looking at the whole history of the character. Also, this is an internal argument based on whether or not Odin can one shot Darkseid.

Well how can one ever have sound logic when dealing with completely fictional beings that can destroy planets with energy beams, magic or even physical strength ? I mean you act as if we are giving debates and lectures on characters that have logically sound abilities and powers. When you are talking about people who can use Magic to affect entire worlds or beings who can erase other beings with energy beams... it's hard to apply sound logic... especially when everything we know of the characters come from a person's imagination and ideas.

You are correct, Darkseid did not use the Omega Beams to hurt the Anti Monitor... instead Darkseid channel a blast through Alexander Luther to hurt the Anti Monitor... so that argument is not really gone at all. As far as you issue with The Spectre argument... I believe it was that particular version of The Spectre that had the power to recreate a Universe... as far as your Darkseid being able to use the Omega Beams on Superman and not being able to put him down... can I say the word again "PIS" ?

Well Darkseid has feats to compete with guy above Superman... especially if he can hurt the Anti Monitor. As far as your Odin is way above Darkseid... I will admit that Odin has larger scale Magic in terms of usage of Magic to recreate or create things... but his blast power does now easily suggest that he could Spirit Bomb style blow up a Galaxy... and I have seen his encounter with Set... the scan does not suggest that Odin shot once and that a Galaxy was destroyed... instead it suggest that Set and Odin was in a slugfest that caused massive damage and destroyed Galaxies... Impressive Indeed, but I still don't think Odin could one shot Darkseid... defeat yes... but not One Shot.

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Stronger

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BlueLantern1995

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Thanos or Darkseid can duel Odin to a stand still for a little while. Ares can't duel either even for a little bit. The combined might of Thanos and Darkseid would be to much for Odin to handle. Team 1 wins.

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James_Lockart

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#59  Edited By James_Lockart

Darkseid is being low balled here.

Someone said that Darkseid could not even take Surfer.

I would suggest reading the Galactus/Darkseid crossover. He ONE SHOTTED Surfer into oblivion after Surfer won against Orion.

As for low showings Thanos has been taken under arrest by Two NY cops. He went in the car like a guilty submissive drunk.

Low showings for Thanos and Darkseid aside their true nature as shown in the comic books as arch enemies of free life itself is way too powerful here.

Thanos and Darkseid dominate !

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Evil-Incarnate

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BUMP!

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frozen

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#61  Edited By frozen  Moderator

@evil_incarnate: Which Odin is this? DC or Marvel? Because Marvel Odin is a Multi-Galaxy buster, he easily solos.

And I would be inclined to say both Thanos or Darkseid could defeat Ares.

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Wolfrazer

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#62  Edited By Wolfrazer

Ares solos w/ Godwave, unless DS gets Soulfire...although that was from a weakened Source...but eh still.

But if just standard levels....hmm....I could still say Team 2, though I don't see why people think Ares wouldn't be able to contend with Darkseid or Thanos.

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Evil-Incarnate

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@frozen said:

@evil_incarnate: Which Odin is this? DC or Marvel? Because Marvel Odin is a Multi-Galaxy buster, he easily solos.

And I would be inclined to say both Thanos or Darkseid could defeat Ares.

I assumed the picture was a dead giveaway it's Marvel Odin.

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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Odin solos.

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deactivated-5b2e798651249

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termiteone4ever

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Back then i had team 2 in mind due to Ares and Odin could for sure damage Thanos

THis new Darkseid i dont see ODin or Ares winning

I have feeling this new Darksied is going to be a problem in comics .

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#67  Edited By frozen  Moderator

@frozen said:

@evil_incarnate: Which Odin is this? DC or Marvel? Because Marvel Odin is a Multi-Galaxy buster, he easily solos.

And I would be inclined to say both Thanos or Darkseid could defeat Ares.

I assumed the picture was a dead giveaway it's Marvel Odin.

I had hoped it wasn't the Marvel version.

He easily solos.

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#68 frozen  Moderator

@wolfrazer: Soulfire Darkseid is Abstract. He'd easily solo.

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Wolfrazer

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#70  Edited By Wolfrazer

@frozen: Just Abstract? Wait...I'm forgetting my levels here, how powerful is an Abstract on the scale?

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Apocalypse3

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Odin solos.

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#72 frozen  Moderator

@frozen: Just Abstract? Wait...I'm forgetting my levels here, how powerful is an Abstract on the scale?

Around the level of The Spectre.

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Wolfrazer

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@frozen: Ok and how powerful is Spectre?

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#74 frozen  Moderator
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Wolfrazer

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@frozen: Yeah....then Soulfire DS isn't soloing, Ares w/ Godwave would still beat him as he would be a Multiverse being.

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#76  Edited By frozen  Moderator

@wolfrazer: To what extent? DC Multiverse wasn't created until 2006 Infinite Crisis storyline and it only holds 52 Universes.

Final Crisis Darkseid was also Multiversal.

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Wolfrazer

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#77  Edited By Wolfrazer

@frozen: To the extent of it having created everything? Although I think this is all moot, as I'm sure the OP didn't mean the strongest versions anyway as Final DS isn't here. So standard levels, I still can see Team 2 winning but again I don't think Ares would be a non-factor like some are suggesting.

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#78 frozen  Moderator

@frozen: To the extent of it having created everything? Although I think this is all moot, as I'm sure the OP didn't mean the strongest versions anyway as Final DS isn't here. So standard levels, I still can see Team 2 winning but again I don't think Ares would be a non-factor like some are suggesting.

Which Multiverse though? The original Multiverse contained an infinite number of Universes, the second Multiverse contained 52 Universes.

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Wolfrazer

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@frozen: I think it was the former? The storyline where Ares acquired the full GW was before 2006, so think that one am sure.

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#80  Edited By frozen  Moderator

@wolfrazer said:

@frozen: I think it was the former? The storyline where Ares acquired the full GW was before 2006, so think that one am sure.

The only Multiverse prior to 2006 was the Pre-Crisis Multiverse which was pre-1985.

Which story/comic did he acquire the full GW?

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Wolfrazer

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@frozen: Was in....the Genesis storyline.

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#82  Edited By frozen  Moderator

@wolfrazer: Soulfire Darkseid beat The Source. This is what the CV page says on Godwave.

The Godwave was a mystical wave of energy, created by The Source , that swept across the cosmos, responsible for creating various pantheons of gods. As it spread it eventually reached the edge of the universe and rebounded, making a second pass that created the potential for Superhumans. Thus, it was responsible for creating the likes of the Speed Force, the Quantum Field and the energy channeled by the Guardians of the Universe. In time, the resonance created by the Godwave began to expand and contract whereupon it returned to The Source. This expansion and contraction began to affect the powers of various beings throughout the universe. As a result, the cosmic energy force began to tear apart the structures it had created whereupon it would wipe the universe clean bringing about the emergence of a new and terrible Fifth World to replace it.

'Created by The Source' - whom Soulfire Darkseid was more powerful than.

Also, it cites Universal, not Multiverse, but I'll re-read the storyline.

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Wolfrazer

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#83  Edited By Wolfrazer

@frozen: Yeah wikis usually aren't reliable, the GW is multiverse, it has all the energies such as the Oan Energy, Speedforce(which is multiverse) etc, so on and so forth.

Although yes Darksied did beat the Source, wasn't it a weakened Source? I don't really remember a fight either..

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#84  Edited By frozen  Moderator

@wolfrazer said:

@frozen: Yeah wikis usually aren't reliable, the GW is multiverse, it has all the energies such as the Oan Energy, Speedforce(which is multiverse) etc, so on and so forth.

Although yes Darksied did beat the Source, wasn't it a weakened Source? I don't really remember a fight either..

  • Oan Energy/Speed-Force was Universal pre-2006, unless you have pre-2006 Multiversal feats?
  • The Source had lost to some Old Gods IIRC but IMO it was major PIS
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Wolfrazer

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#85  Edited By Wolfrazer

@frozen: Wait getting my times mixed up here, so disregard that.

But anyway back to focusing on the battle, best not derail the thread. I would assume though we just going with standard levels here.

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mohammed_alg_92

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#86  Edited By mohammed_alg_92

team 1

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All-Father solos

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Odin solo stomps.

Darkseid isnt really bringing much here and Thanos cant take out Odin.

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Odin and then beat Ares because he can

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Sly_141

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The top photo makes DS look like a Superpowered version of Plankton

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Borson solos

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Odin solos everyone here.

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KingOfKings1

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Odin curbstomps .