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#1 Edited by Evil Incarnate (3744 posts) - - Show Bio

Takes place on neutral ground. This is pre Flashpoint for the DC characters.

VS

#2 Edited by hsm1 (55 posts) - - Show Bio

Odin can probably solo. He fought Thanos before; though he didn't win, he looked extremely dominant.

So, I go for Team 2.

#3 Edited by HyperViper97 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

Ares is a non factor here. Odin probably takes this with reality warping

#4 Posted by Killemall (18260 posts) - - Show Bio

Ares could hold his own against either Thanos or Darkseid.

However, Odin fighting to the best of his abilities, neither Thanos nor Darkseid, nor both of them together can hold their own against him.

Its one sided.

#5 Posted by King Saturn (223816 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually think it's a tough fight... I say Odin will handle either Thanos or Darkseid whoever he is fighting... while Ares will have trouble pinning down either Thanos or Darkseid.

#6 Posted by Killemall (18260 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: So i take it you do not believe Odin can solo even if he is serious?

#7 Edited by King Saturn (223816 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: So i take it you do not believe Odin can solo even if he is serious?

I don't think so... he could beat either one of them in a one on one situation... but a 2 on 1 would be a problem.

#8 Edited by czarny_samael666 (16983 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall said:

@king_saturn: So i take it you do not believe Odin can solo even if he is serious?

I don't think so... he could beat either one of them in a one on one situation... but a 2 on 1 would be a problem.

Serious Odin can one-shot Darkseid. Thanos isn't able to hurt Odin either.

Odin solos.

#9 Edited by King Saturn (223816 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn said:

@killemall said:

@king_saturn: So i take it you do not believe Odin can solo even if he is serious?

I don't think so... he could beat either one of them in a one on one situation... but a 2 on 1 would be a problem.

Serious Odin can one-shot Darkseid. Thanos isn't able to hurt Odin either.

Odin solos.

What makes you say Odin can one shot Darkseid ? I don't think it will be that easy regardless of Darkseid's sometimes rather lackluster showings. He is a DC Villain in a Universe with the most PIS based superhero in the history of comics books aka Superman.

#10 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

odin solos, his power surpasses team 1 by quite a margin.

#11 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16983 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

What makes you say Odin can one shot Darkseid ? I don't think it will be that easy regardless of Darkseid's sometimes rather lackluster showings. He is a DC Villain in a Universe with the most PIS based superhero in the history of comics books aka Superman.

Because Odin is galaxy buster. When he is serious, he one-shots Surfer, Drax and Thor. In side-effect of his fight with Forsung, whole stars were destroyed, with Infinity - galaxies and quasars.

Darkseid doesn't have feats that proves that he can take attack like that. Thanos also isn't a threat to Odin, he simply is too durable to be one-shotted, but sooner or later he would go down too.

DS normally fights with Superman, Orion (even while he faked his lost against his son) and other people in similar level. I don't see why his durability should be putted above Surfer's.

Odin is out of their league.

#12 Posted by thanobomb1124 (2010 posts) - - Show Bio

Team two. I dare say easy?

#13 Posted by King Saturn (223816 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

What makes you say Odin can one shot Darkseid ? I don't think it will be that easy regardless of Darkseid's sometimes rather lackluster showings. He is a DC Villain in a Universe with the most PIS based superhero in the history of comics books aka Superman.

Because Odin is galaxy buster. When he is serious, he one-shots Surfer, Drax and Thor. In side-effect of his fight with Forsung, whole stars were destroyed, with Infinity - galaxies and quasars.

Darkseid doesn't have feats that proves that he can take attack like that. Thanos also isn't a threat to Odin, he simply is too durable to be one-shotted, but sooner or later he would go down too.

DS normally fights with Superman, Orion (even while he faked his lost against his son) and other people in similar level. I don't see why his durability should be putted above Surfer's.

Odin is out of their league.

Being able to one shot Silver Surfer, Drax and Thor does not mean he can do the same thing with Darkseid... a bit of faulty ABC logic there. Yes, we know that Odin can bust Galaxies... but when Odin fought Thanos was every shot he attacked him with a Galaxy Busting shot ? I don't think so... Odin's Galaxy busting is a product of a massive battle... not so much him generating a single attack that does such an effect.

Well again, he may not have to... because even if Odin is serious... that does not mean he will be making Magical Spirit Bombs that blow up Galaxies... only that he will utilize the Odin Force to attack Darkseid in a harsh way... but it's hard to say whether or not he could survive it or not. I just don't think you are taking into account the fact that DS could also hurt Odin with a potent attack as well with his Omega Effect... what is to say it would not work ?

Just because someone fights with someone of lower power level does that mean their levels are at that level. Mr. Majestic often fights against people who are weaker than he is... yet is his power level at their level ? Not really... that's kind of a faulty argument considering we know what Superman can do with PIS anyways. I think Darkseid's durability is beyond the Surfer's because even a punch from Superman could KO the Surfer under the right conditions... lol

I don't know about that... in a one on one situation maybe... but in an all out 2 on 1 battle I think Odin might be in trouble.

#14 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16983 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

Being able to one shot Silver Surfer, Drax and Thor does not mean he can do the same thing with Darkseid... a bit of faulty ABC logic there.

Why? Darkseid would have to have better durability feats than them to not be one shotted by Odin.

Yes, we know that Odin can bust Galaxies... but when Odin fought Thanos was every shot he attacked him with a Galaxy Busting shot ? I don't think so... Odin's Galaxy busting is a product of a massive battle... not so much him generating a single attack that does such an effect.

Odin couldn't take out Thanos under his own power, he had to amp it with Grungnir. Since we know he couldn't do something in one way, why should we belive that he was holding back?

Well again, he may not have to... because even if Odin is serious... that does not mean he will be making Magical Spirit Bombs that blow up Galaxies... only that he will utilize the Odin Force to attack Darkseid in a harsh way...

Serious means that he will use full power, because he belives that his enemies are a threat to him (BTW, he is wrong in this).

but it's hard to say whether or not he could survive it or not.

I don't see a problem: either Darkseid has feats to prove he can take it or he doesn't and he loses.

I just don't think you are taking into account the fact that DS could also hurt Odin with a potent attack as well with his Omega Effect... what is to say it would not work ?

Because DS never won a battle with someone as powerfull as Odin (under his own power of course) + his OB never took down such a powerfull being without any amp.

Just because someone fights with someone of lower power level does that mean their levels are at that level. Mr. Majestic often fights against people who are weaker than he is... yet is his power level at their level ?

But Majestic has feats that puts him above them, don't he? And the same logic applies to DS. If he has feats, then ok. If he doesn't - he gets one-shotted.

I think Darkseid's durability is beyond the Surfer's because even a punch from Superman could KO the Surfer under the right conditions...

Under right conditions, even Spider-Man can KO Darkseid... Normally Superman isn't a threat to Surfer.

I don't know about that... in a one on one situation maybe... but in an all out 2 on 1 battle I think Odin might be in trouble.

He could be in troulbe if:

-his enemies would have feats that they can survive his attacks. Thanos has them, Darkseid hasn't.

-his enemies would have feats that proves that they can hurt him - they doesn't have it.

#15 Posted by King Saturn (223816 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

Being able to one shot Silver Surfer, Drax and Thor does not mean he can do the same thing with Darkseid... a bit of faulty ABC logic there.

Why? Darkseid would have to have better durability feats than them to not be one shotted by Odin.

Yes, we know that Odin can bust Galaxies... but when Odin fought Thanos was every shot he attacked him with a Galaxy Busting shot ? I don't think so... Odin's Galaxy busting is a product of a massive battle... not so much him generating a single attack that does such an effect.

Odin couldn't take out Thanos under his own power, he had to amp it with Grungnir. Since we know he couldn't do something in one way, why should we belive that he was holding back?

Well again, he may not have to... because even if Odin is serious... that does not mean he will be making Magical Spirit Bombs that blow up Galaxies... only that he will utilize the Odin Force to attack Darkseid in a harsh way...

Serious means that he will use full power, because he belives that his enemies are a threat to him (BTW, he is wrong in this).

but it's hard to say whether or not he could survive it or not.

I don't see a problem: either Darkseid has feats to prove he can take it or he doesn't and he loses.

I just don't think you are taking into account the fact that DS could also hurt Odin with a potent attack as well with his Omega Effect... what is to say it would not work ?

Because DS never won a battle with someone as powerfull as Odin (under his own power of course) + his OB never took down such a powerfull being without any amp.

Just because someone fights with someone of lower power level does that mean their levels are at that level. Mr. Majestic often fights against people who are weaker than he is... yet is his power level at their level ?

But Majestic has feats that puts him above them, don't he? And the same logic applies to DS. If he has feats, then ok. If he doesn't - he gets one-shotted.

I think Darkseid's durability is beyond the Surfer's because even a punch from Superman could KO the Surfer under the right conditions...

Under right conditions, even Spider-Man can KO Darkseid... Normally Superman isn't a threat to Surfer.

I don't know about that... in a one on one situation maybe... but in an all out 2 on 1 battle I think Odin might be in trouble.

He could be in troulbe if:

-his enemies would have feats that they can survive his attacks. Thanos has them, Darkseid hasn't.

-his enemies would have feats that proves that they can hurt him - they doesn't have it.

1. Darkseid does have better durability feats than them... he can tank punches from Mr. PIS himself Superman.

2. It seems like here you are admitting Odin needed an amp ? Why is this valuable information here considering an amp might not be accessible in this fight ? Even if Odin is serious... what is to say Darkseid's Omega Effect could not harm him at all ?

3. Odin using full power does not mean he uses Spirit Bomb Galaxy Busting attacks... it just means he is going all out and since we know that Odin's direct attacks are not Galaxy Busting but it's an accumulation of attacks that causes Galaxies to bust... then we can say Odin's attacks will not directly be like some DBZ explosion stuff.

4. He does... he can tank attacks from a guy who could sneeze Solar Systems away and move planets like they are softballs.

5. Majestic only has Strength Feats that say he is above his opponents... but not many durability feats to say off top that he is significantly superior to his opponents in that way.

6. The reason why Superman is not a threat to the Silver Surfer is because of the Surfer's versatility... but what does that have to do with physical attributes ? Why can't Mr. PIS himself have the physical strength to KO the Surfer if he could catch him ? Of course he does... he is Superman.

7. Darkseid does have them... he can survive punches from The Man of Steel. Also you are forgetting about Odin's durability... who is to say Odin would be able to tank attacks from Darkseid considering the unique ability of the Omega Effect ? Thanos Cosmic Energy is not exactly like Darkseid's Omega Effect in nature so you can't say that it would not affect Odin either. As far as Darkseid not being able to affect Odin with the Omega Beams... I recall DS being able to use the power to hurt The Spectre as well as Anti Monitor at one point.

#16 Posted by dondave (34442 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2

#17 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16983 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

1. Darkseid does have better durability feats than them... he can tank punches from Mr. PIS himself Superman.

This doesn't even put him in the same level with Thor or Surfer.

Serious Thor was able to take punches from PG Drax. PG Drax one-shotted Champion, who was a planet buster at the moment.

Surfer took attacks from BRB, who also is a planet buster.

Other people who has done bigger damage than Superman?

Gladiator, Hyperion, Hercules... Then we have people like Kurse who is 4 times stronger than Thor. Or Mangog. Or Destroyer, etc.

2. It seems like here you are admitting Odin needed an amp ? Why is this valuable information here considering an amp might not be accessible in this fight ? Even if Odin is serious... what is to say Darkseid's Omega Effect could not harm him at all ?

Gungnir is his standard equipment. But yeah, Odin can't one-shot Thanos. It will take him hours to take out Thanos. But he will do it. Darkseid will be one-shotted though.

2.b)Becuase Darkseid didn't KOd anyone in Odin's level with it.

3. Odin using full power does not mean he uses Spirit Bomb Galaxy Busting attacks... it just means he is going all out and since we know that Odin's direct attacks are not Galaxy Busting but it's an accumulation of attacks that causes Galaxies to bust... then we can say Odin's attacks will not directly be like some DBZ explosion stuff.

Odin can destroy galaxies. Odin will not hold back. Ergo Odin will use galaxy busting attacks to win.

4. He does... he can tank attacks from a guy who could sneeze Solar Systems away and move planets like they are softballs.

We're not talking about PC Darkseid, who barely has any feats without Darkness. He also didn't fought with SA Superman. Post-Crisis Superman isn't even planet buster and even if he would be, he still would be nothing to Odin. Literally: nothing. If this is best DS can bring to the table, then he would get one-shotted by Surfer, who was one-shotted by Odin. Not a fight, not an enemy.

5. Majestic only has Strength Feats that say he is above his opponents... but not many durability feats to say off top that he is significantly superior to his opponents in that way.

I am not an expert when it comes to Majestic, but if he doens't have feats, then his durability isn't that great.

6. The reason why Superman is not a threat to the Silver Surfer is because of the Surfer's versatility... but what does that have to do with physical attributes ? Why can't Mr. PIS himself have the physical strength to KO the Surfer if he could catch him ? Of course he does... he is Superman.

He isn't. Surfer and Morg clashed and destroyed a planet. Superman never destroyed a planet. Post-A Surfer is strong enough to beat Beta Ray Bill with his fists. Surfer is stronger than Superman if he boosts himself enough. That is what heralds do. Even Firelord could reach Thor's level of strength. And both: Thor and BRB have better feats than Superman.

7. Darkseid does have them... he can survive punches from The Man of Steel. Also you are forgetting about Odin's durability... who is to say Odin would be able to tank attacks from Darkseid considering the unique ability of the Omega Effect ? Thanos Cosmic Energy is not exactly like Darkseid's Omega Effect in nature so you can't say that it would not affect Odin either. As far as Darkseid not being able to affect Odin with the Omega Beams... I recall DS being able to use the power to hurt The Spectre as well as Anti Monitor at one point.

Which means nothing. Superman isn't comparable to Odin in any way.

Omega Beams never put down someone who tanks galaxy busting attacks.

Hurting =/= KOing.

#18 Edited by King Saturn (223816 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

1. Darkseid does have better durability feats than them... he can tank punches from Mr. PIS himself Superman.

This doesn't even put him in the same level with Thor or Surfer.

Serious Thor was able to take punches from PG Drax. PG Drax one-shotted Champion, who was a planet buster at the moment.

Surfer took attacks from BRB, who also is a planet buster.

Other people who has done bigger damage than Superman?

Gladiator, Hyperion, Hercules... Then we have people like Kurse who is 4 times stronger than Thor. Or Mangog. Or Destroyer, etc.

2. It seems like here you are admitting Odin needed an amp ? Why is this valuable information here considering an amp might not be accessible in this fight ? Even if Odin is serious... what is to say Darkseid's Omega Effect could not harm him at all ?

Gungnir is his standard equipment. But yeah, Odin can't one-shot Thanos. It will take him hours to take out Thanos. But he will do it. Darkseid will be one-shotted though.

2.b)Becuase Darkseid didn't KOd anyone in Odin's level with it.

3. Odin using full power does not mean he uses Spirit Bomb Galaxy Busting attacks... it just means he is going all out and since we know that Odin's direct attacks are not Galaxy Busting but it's an accumulation of attacks that causes Galaxies to bust... then we can say Odin's attacks will not directly be like some DBZ explosion stuff.

Odin can destroy galaxies. Odin will not hold back. Ergo Odin will use galaxy busting attacks to win.

4. He does... he can tank attacks from a guy who could sneeze Solar Systems away and move planets like they are softballs.

We're not talking about PC Darkseid, who barely has any feats without Darkness. He also didn't fought with SA Superman. Post-Crisis Superman isn't even planet buster and even if he would be, he still would be nothing to Odin. Literally: nothing. If this is best DS can bring to the table, then he would get one-shotted by Surfer, who was one-shotted by Odin. Not a fight, not an enemy.

5. Majestic only has Strength Feats that say he is above his opponents... but not many durability feats to say off top that he is significantly superior to his opponents in that way.

I am not an expert when it comes to Majestic, but if he doens't have feats, then his durability isn't that great.

6. The reason why Superman is not a threat to the Silver Surfer is because of the Surfer's versatility... but what does that have to do with physical attributes ? Why can't Mr. PIS himself have the physical strength to KO the Surfer if he could catch him ? Of course he does... he is Superman.

He isn't. Surfer and Morg clashed and destroyed a planet. Superman never destroyed a planet. Post-A Surfer is strong enough to beat Beta Ray Bill with his fists. Surfer is stronger than Superman if he boosts himself enough. That is what heralds do. Even Firelord could reach Thor's level of strength. And both: Thor and BRB have better feats than Superman.

7. Darkseid does have them... he can survive punches from The Man of Steel. Also you are forgetting about Odin's durability... who is to say Odin would be able to tank attacks from Darkseid considering the unique ability of the Omega Effect ? Thanos Cosmic Energy is not exactly like Darkseid's Omega Effect in nature so you can't say that it would not affect Odin either. As far as Darkseid not being able to affect Odin with the Omega Beams... I recall DS being able to use the power to hurt The Spectre as well as Anti Monitor at one point.

Which means nothing. Superman isn't comparable to Odin in any way.

Omega Beams never put down someone who tanks galaxy busting attacks.

Hurting =/= KOing.

I don't think you are getting what I am trying to tell you...

1. The point is not whether or not if Superman is more versatile than Thor of Silver Surfer... it's to show that his Striking Power is superior to their... which for the most part it is because it's PIS backed heavily. It's the striking power that is key... yes, Thor and Surfer have tanked attacks from Planet Busters... don't mean they will do the same thing if Superman hits them with his shots though. Especially considering the nature of Superman's abilities + DC writers impact.

2. Your assumption is weak IMO... I already told you why I think it is. Assuming that because Odin has Magical Power to level high scale areas does not mean he will easily one shot DS... he could beat him in a one on one encounter but not easily. Who says DS has to KO someone of Odin's level ? I already had explained to you his power was good enough to affect Anti Monitor and The Spectre. Besides, the argument is not Darkseid will beat Odin... it's that he wont get one shot by Odin and go out as easily as you say he will.

3. No he won't... even if Odin is not holding back... we already went over it was accumulation of attacks between Odin and his opponents that caused the destruction of the Galaxies... it does not mean Odin can just one shot Galaxies...

4. I aint talking about Pre Crisis Darkseid either... I am talking about the fact that Darkseid tanks attacks from a character that can hold a Black Hole in his hand ( you must have forgotten Superman did that feat eh )... so again, it's not quite as easy as you would like to think it is when we are talking about DS durability or even Superman's strength... I already told you it's PIS solidified.

5. I notice you really aren't an expert on nearly any DC character... you seem to just think they are inferior and hold you are Marvel stronghold position...

6. Superman does not have to be comparable to Odin... Superman's physical strength is superior to Odin's yet Odin has Magical Power beyond Superman... but the point is could Odin tank attacks like the Omega Effect which was able to hurt The Spectre and Anti Monitor at one point... and I really don't think Odin will just tank the OB's if they hit him. Again, why are you so dense about this KO / Hurt thing ? When did I say Darkseid would KO Odin ? You said that Odin would one shot Darkseid ? I said that I don't think he could do that... and this is our discussion. I am giving you reasons to why DS could hold on with Odin assuming he has Thanos helping him. That's it. Don't make me your DC Fanboy punching bag just because I don't think Odin will clobber Darkseid.

#19 Edited by czarny_samael666 (16983 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

I don't think you are getting what I am trying to tell you...

The point is not whether or not if Superman is more versatile than Thor of Silver Surfer... it's to show that his Striking Power is superior to their...

No, I understand You. You don't understand that I'm saying that their striking power is above Superman.

2. Your assumption is weak IMO... I already told you why I think it is. Assuming that because Odin has Magical Power to level high scale areas does not mean he will easily one shot DS... he could beat him in a one on one encounter but not easily. Who says DS has to KO someone of Odin's level ? I already had explained to you his power was good enough to affect Anti Monitor and The Spectre. Besides, the argument is not Darkseid will beat Odin... it's that he wont get one shot by Odin and go out as easily as you say he will.

Yes, it means it. because Darkseid never survived similar attack.

Unitl You can prove that DS can do it - he can't. No matter how many enemies he defeated, how many battles he won.

Doesn't matter if he can hurt someone. He has to KO them, if that could be an argument here. Hurting means completly nothing.

3. No he won't... even if Odin is not holding back... we already went over it was accumulation of attacks between Odin and his opponents that caused the destruction of the Galaxies... it does not mean Odin can just one shot Galaxies...

He can do it with ease and DS can't take that kind of shots.

4. I aint talking about Pre Crisis Darkseid either... I am talking about the fact that Darkseid tanks attacks from a character that can hold a Black Hole in his hand ( you must have forgotten Superman did that feat eh )... so again, it's not quite as easy as you would like to think it is when we are talking about DS durability or even Superman's strength... I already told you it's PIS solidified.

Which can't be measured, isn't a striking feat and was already debunked on CV.

5. I notice you really aren't an expert on nearly any DC character... you seem to just think they are inferior and hold you are Marvel stronghold position...

LOL. Rather You aren't an expert on Marvel characters. I know what I'm talking about, I have read enough comics and was present in enough number of threads to know them. Most of them aren't even close to planet busters from Marvel. Darkseid, Superman, Cap MArvel, WW, Black Adam, Despero, Grundy, Elling, Orion, etc. They are all below planet level. Thor and BRB, most heralds, Thanos, Drax, Gladiator, Hyperions - they are all in or above planet level characters.

6. Superman does not have to be comparable to Odin... Superman's physical strength is superior to Odin's yet Odin has Magical Power beyond Superman... but the point is could Odin tank attacks like the Omega Effect which was able to hurt The Spectre and Anti Monitor at one point... and I really don't think Odin will just tank the OB's if they hit him. Again, why are you so dense about this KO / Hurt thing ? When did I say Darkseid would KO Odin ? You said that Odin would one shot Darkseid ? I said that I don't think he could do that... and this is our discussion. I am giving you reasons to why DS could hold on with Odin assuming he has Thanos helping him. That's it. Don't make me your DC Fanboy punching bag just because I don't think Odin will clobber Darkseid.

No. Odin's strength is as great as Odin needs it to be. He was bigger than our sun when he was crushing planets in his hands as a Infinity. He is stronger than Superman.

I asked You for scans that proves DS can survive energy attacks from Odin - You bringed Superman and now You're saying that Superman doesn't have to be comparable to Odin. How does that help Your case in any way?

you keep talking about hurting powerfull beings. How does that matter? Thor hurt Galactus and Celestials, but it doesn't mean anything and doesn't prove anything.

Using these "feats" doesn't change anything, because DS offensive powers aren't an answer for Odin's ones. DS durability is and there are no feats that proves that DS can take Odin's best shots.

And I am not making You anything, when did You get that? You first used that argument, not me.

To sum it all:

You're saying that Darkseid is very durable and can't be KOd by one Odin's shot, because Superman is strong.

I am telling You that Superman's striking power is nowhere near Odin's power, so it is irrelevant if Darkseid can take Superman's shots or not.

You're saying that Darkseid can hurt AM and Spectre. Ok, and? It doesn't change anything for us, since it can't be an argument that DS can take Odin't shot or not. It also doesn't prove that DS can take out Odin. It actually doesn't prove anything.

#20 Posted by King Saturn (223816 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

I don't think you are getting what I am trying to tell you...

The point is not whether or not if Superman is more versatile than Thor of Silver Surfer... it's to show that his Striking Power is superior to their...

No, I understand You. You don't understand that I'm saying that their striking power is above Superman.

2. Your assumption is weak IMO... I already told you why I think it is. Assuming that because Odin has Magical Power to level high scale areas does not mean he will easily one shot DS... he could beat him in a one on one encounter but not easily. Who says DS has to KO someone of Odin's level ? I already had explained to you his power was good enough to affect Anti Monitor and The Spectre. Besides, the argument is not Darkseid will beat Odin... it's that he wont get one shot by Odin and go out as easily as you say he will.

Yes, it means it. because Darkseid never survived similar attack.

Unitl You can prove that DS can do it - he can't. No matter how many enemies he defeated, how many battles he won.

Doesn't matter if he can hurt someone. He has to KO them, if that could be an argument here. Hurting means completly nothing.

3. No he won't... even if Odin is not holding back... we already went over it was accumulation of attacks between Odin and his opponents that caused the destruction of the Galaxies... it does not mean Odin can just one shot Galaxies...

He can do it with ease and DS can't take that kind of shots.

4. I aint talking about Pre Crisis Darkseid either... I am talking about the fact that Darkseid tanks attacks from a character that can hold a Black Hole in his hand ( you must have forgotten Superman did that feat eh )... so again, it's not quite as easy as you would like to think it is when we are talking about DS durability or even Superman's strength... I already told you it's PIS solidified.

Which can't be measured, isn't a striking feat and was already debunked on CV.

5. I notice you really aren't an expert on nearly any DC character... you seem to just think they are inferior and hold you are Marvel stronghold position...

LOL. Rather You aren't an expert on Marvel characters. I know what I'm talking about, I have read enough comics and was present in enough number of threads to know them. Most of them aren't even close to planet busters from Marvel. Darkseid, Superman, Cap MArvel, WW, Black Adam, Despero, Grundy, Elling, Orion, etc. They are all below planet level. Thor and BRB, most heralds, Thanos, Drax, Gladiator, Hyperions - they are all in or above planet level characters.

6. Superman does not have to be comparable to Odin... Superman's physical strength is superior to Odin's yet Odin has Magical Power beyond Superman... but the point is could Odin tank attacks like the Omega Effect which was able to hurt The Spectre and Anti Monitor at one point... and I really don't think Odin will just tank the OB's if they hit him. Again, why are you so dense about this KO / Hurt thing ? When did I say Darkseid would KO Odin ? You said that Odin would one shot Darkseid ? I said that I don't think he could do that... and this is our discussion. I am giving you reasons to why DS could hold on with Odin assuming he has Thanos helping him. That's it. Don't make me your DC Fanboy punching bag just because I don't think Odin will clobber Darkseid.

No. Odin's strength is as great as Odin needs it to be. He was bigger than our sun when he was crushing planets in his hands as a Infinity. He is stronger than Superman.

I asked You for scans that proves DS can survive energy attacks from Odin - You bringed Superman and now You're saying that Superman doesn't have to be comparable to Odin. How does that help Your case in any way?

you keep talking about hurting powerfull beings. How does that matter? Thor hurt Galactus and Celestials, but it doesn't mean anything and doesn't prove anything.

Using these "feats" doesn't change anything, because DS offensive powers aren't an answer for Odin's ones. DS durability is and there are no feats that proves that DS can take Odin's best shots.

And I am not making You anything, when did You get that? You first used that argument, not me.

To sum it all:

You're saying that Darkseid is very durable and can't be KOd by one Odin's shot, because Superman is strong.

I am telling You that Superman's striking power is nowhere near Odin's power, so it is irrelevant if Darkseid can take Superman's shots or not.

You're saying that Darkseid can hurt AM and Spectre. Ok, and? It doesn't change anything for us, since it can't be an argument that DS can take Odin't shot or not. It also doesn't prove that DS can take out Odin. It actually doesn't prove anything.

1. Those characters do not have striking power above Superman's... you are just asserting they do. The point was that Superman has the level of PIS based writing behind him that he can do anything.

2. Darkseid has survived something worse... strikes from Superman. Already been over this... How can I prove that Darkseid is capable of surviving an undefined attack from Odin ? It's impossible to prove because you don't know how strong a single blast from Odin is. You simply assume it's Galaxy level because you saw in the comic where the aftermath of him battling someone cause Galaxies to be destroyed... yet, nothing to say that he generates Spirit Bomb Galaxy Busting attacks. So until you can define that Odin's attacks are exactly Galaxy Busting or to what degree the blasts really are. How can you expect anything back ?

3. Again, what kind of shots ? Massive Energy Blasts that supposedly over an accumulated amount of rounds can destroy a Galaxy ? Again, what you ask is hard to define because it's essentially undefined... we don't know how many blasts it takes for Odin to bust a Galaxy... therefore we can not define the full level of his power. So it will be hard to show you anything without you giving that "Well that proves nothing" line again.

4. So what it can't be measured... neither can the full impact of Odin's blasts but you don't see to hesitate to say Odin can one shot Galaxies do you ? Also, how can ComicVine debunk something that is totally fictional in nature to begin with ? That's ridiculous... we are talking about Comic Books dude... not Theoretical Science. All it does is shows how much power Superman has under the writers anyways.

5. So because you was present in a lot of DC threads you "Know" about these characters ? Anywho, you still are missing the point. The point is that Darkseid's durability is greater than you want to believe it is. You want to downplay Superman's strength and say that because some suckas on this site debunked the whole black whole thing that it's not legit... but what in any comic book is seriously legit when it's all fiction anyways ? Plus you keep assuming this planet busting level thing... when IIRC BRB used his hammer to bust a planet... not his fist. Which again is key.

6. But that's the same for Superman... his strength as is great as the writers want it to be. When did you ask me for any scans for anything ? First time I am seeing that, but we are covering a ton of material here and it's hard to catch everything. If Darkseid can hurt superior beings than himself... then he can hurt Odin. That is what is key... it shows that DS has the ability to hurt Cosmic Powerhouses... he does not have to KO them. Neither does Thor with the example you used either... but Thor could hurt Odin with his power could he not ? Plus, you keep leaving out the fact that Thanos is there for support anyways. What do you mean they don't change anything ? So a man who can tank attacks from someone who can hold Black Holes does not show the character has high end durability ? Come on son. We already went over why I think Darkseid can hurt Odin so lets not do this again.

7. You came at me first dude... you started the conversation and engaged me with this idea that it's my job to prove that Darkseid can KO Odin... and that was never my position.

To Sum it Up :

You Talk about this... I Talk about that... nothing gets resolved because your bias is too strong for Marvel.

#21 Edited by czarny_samael666 (16983 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

You Talk about this... I Talk about that... nothing gets resolved because your bias is too strong for Marvel.

And now You're trolling.

You can't prove Your point, so You started insulting me. As clear as that. You're living in fantasy world in which every DC character is superior or equal to top Marvel heroes. They aren't if they doesn't have feats to prove it. You have only empty claims without any prove.

I will try to take any relevant things from Your post (of course any insult ruin whole point) and Your ONLY argument is that Superman is strong. You're really comparing Superman to Odin without proving that Superman is near Odin level of power.

Superman never destroyed a planet and he doesn't have feats that puts him in this level.

Superman KOd himself when he destroyed Dark Moon and this is his best feat. BRB wasn't KOd in two different planet destuctions.

Superman strikes on DS aren't worthy anything here.

You can't assume that DS can survive worse, because YOU say so. PROVE it or agree that he doesn't have feats on this level.

You've said that DS can hurt Odin. Yeah, he can and? He can't KO him. He can't take his best shots. He can't really do anything that would help Thanos put down Odin in the end. Nothing.

I can be hurt by much, much lesser things than ones that would KO me.

#22 Posted by King Saturn (223816 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

You Talk about this... I Talk about that... nothing gets resolved because your bias is too strong for Marvel.

And now You're trolling.

You can't prove Your point, so You started insulting me. As clear as that. You're living in fantasy world in which every DC character is superior or equal to top Marvel heroes. They aren't if they doesn't have feats to prove it. You have only empty claims without any prove.

I will try to take any relevant things from Your post (of course any insult ruin whole point) and Your ONLY argument is that Superman is strong. You're really comparing Superman to Odin without proving that Superman is near Odin level of power.

Superman never destroyed a planet and he doesn't have feats that puts him in this level.

Superman KOd himself when he destroyed Dark Moon and this is his best feat. BRB wasn't KOd in two different planet destuctions.

Superman strikes on DS aren't worthy anything here.

You can't assume that DS can survive worse, because YOU say so. PROVE it or agree that he doesn't have feats on this level.

You've said that DS can hurt Odin. Yeah, he can and? He can't KO him. He can't take his best shots. He can't really do anything that would help Thanos put down Odin in the end. Nothing.

I can be hurt by much, much lesser things than ones that would KO me.

The truth is trolling ? Hmmm... that's weird.

I did prove my point... you said that Darkseid has never tanked anything that is on par with Odin's attacks correct ? Well I explained to you that Darkseid tanked strikes from a guy who could hold a Black Hole in his hand... which is beyond any physical strength feat we have seen from Thor, Surfer, Drax and so on... you assumed that Odin could destroy Galaxies with one shot but his blasts are not defined as that. They are powerful... but to what degree who knows ? So your position is on standby until you can show us just how powerful a blast from Odin is to know what we are really dealing with here. Not Odin's accumulation of attacks that leads to a Galaxy Exploding... but a single blast. Then we can work more with the premise.

My argument isn't that Superman is strong... it's that his defined level of strength is PIS level. That's why I brought out the Black Hole feat to show you this... and because you asked for Darkseid tanking a massive attack... well there you have it with Superman's PIS backed strength.

Superman held a black hole in his hands... holding that kind of mass is beyond just busting a planet which The Man of Steel could do when PIS backed anyways.

Sure they are... just because you say that they aren't don't mean anything.

Are you like playing with me or something ? Have I not said from the beginning that I thought Darkseid and Thanos would give Odin trouble... it does not matter if Darkseid can KO Odin... if he can hurt him or affect him seriously... then he is a factor here especially with assistance from Thanos. Again, we don't know if Darkseid can or can not take Odin's best shots because we don't know the actual level of Odin's attacks... yes, in combinations of attacks with an opponent he can level a Galaxy... but that does not mean his attacks are all singularly galaxy busting. That's still a key factor here. Because now you have to define just how powerful are Odin's overall attacks at the base.

#23 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16983 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

Insulting is trolling. Just because You can't admitt that You can't prove certain points, You don't have to insult other debaters. Did I tell You that You don't know what You're talking about? No. Did I tell You that You're fanboy or that You're biased? No. Yet, You come with insults like that against me.

Holding black hole isn't a prove of striking power at all. Like at all, it would be a feat of durability, since holding, would mean that he is moving it, changing its position, etc.

It has nothing to do with Superman's strkiing power.

And even if You belive it is, then read this:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/discuss-and-debunk-a-feat-with-a-viner-721916/?page=9

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/debunking-the-wank-comic-feat-fact-check-712866/

And look on these scans again:

1.This BH is VERY small.

2.It was already hold in place.

3.Superman isn't fighting with all power of this BH, just with some part, that was releasing from this device.

It is not a feat that means anything.

Superman doesn't have striking power above BRB, Gladiator, Hyperion or Surfer. Not because I belive that and that is all, but because I can show scans in which they are destroying larger objects, than Supreman did.

Darkseid can't make a seirous damage to Odin, he can hurt him as much as splint can hurt me. Nothing important in fight.

Darkseid can't take Odin's best shots, because he never took anything similar to that.

Feel free to proove me wrong, but scans with Superman attacking him isn't a way to do it, becuase Superman doesn't have feats in par with Surfer and You want to prove DS durability by showing his durability taking from people below ones that are nothing to Odin?

#24 Posted by King Saturn (223816 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

Insulting is trolling. Just because You can't admitt that You can't prove certain points, You don't have to insult other debaters. Did I tell You that You don't know what You're talking about? No. Did I tell You that You're fanboy or that You're biased? No. Yet, You come with insults like that against me.

Holding black hole isn't a prove of striking power at all. Like at all, it would be a feat of durability, since holding, would mean that he is moving it, changing its position, etc.

It has nothing to do with Superman's strkiing power.

And even if You belive it is, then read this:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/discuss-and-debunk-a-feat-with-a-viner-721916/?page=9

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/debunking-the-wank-comic-feat-fact-check-712866/

And look on these scans again:

1.This BH is VERY small.

2.It was already hold in place.

3.Superman isn't fighting with all power of this BH, just with some part, that was releasing from this device.

It is not a feat that means anything.

Superman doesn't have striking power above BRB, Gladiator, Hyperion or Surfer. Not because I belive that and that is all, but because I can show scans in which they are destroying larger objects, than Supreman did.

Darkseid can't make a seirous damage to Odin, he can hurt him as much as splint can hurt me. Nothing important in fight.

Darkseid can't take Odin's best shots, because he never took anything similar to that.

Feel free to proove me wrong, but scans with Superman attacking him isn't a way to do it, becuase Superman doesn't have feats in par with Surfer and You want to prove DS durability by showing his durability taking from people below ones that are nothing to Odin?

You was insulted by being called a person who is heavily bias to Marvel characters ? Wow... that's kind of sad considering I could have said much much worse. The reason you have not called me DC bias or DC fanboy is because I have not shown signs of that here... at all. I have not said one time that I think Darkseid could beat Odin on his own. Yet your suggestions on the other side of the topic seem rather like what you would hear of a Bias Marvel Fan. In any case, back to the discussion.

I agree that holding a Black Hole is not a striking feat... but it shows Superman's level of physical strength is beyond the levels of discussion... because holding a Black Hole... regardless of how big it is... is ridiculous beyond even comic book measure.

Superman can destroy planets if the writers see fit for him to do such a thing... if he can hold something in his hand that has the mass of several solar masses... then I don't think planet busting is beyond him buddy.

I don't care about those threads... what sense does it make to debunk something that is totally created for fictional entertainment purposes ? I mean that would be like me wanting to debunk that the Silver Surfer can actually move FTL or that Thor can destroy planets with the might of his hammer... it's ridiculous because the intent of these readings is not meant to be taken literal... so you don't have to get bent out of shape over a PIS level feat when the character that does it has a lot of PIS based feats.

1. I agree that the Black Hole is small... but it can still weigh several Solar Masses which is beyond the size of anything we know of Thor, Surfer, Drax actually busting.

2. Okay, but that was never the point of using this feat.

3. Again, that is not the purpose of using the feat. The feat was to show that Superman holding a Black Hole in his hand is just a high PIS level feat that shows his strength can not be so easily defined... nor can someone who can tank attacks from such a creature.

4. Yes, the feat means something because it shows the level of strength Superman has is beyond what you thought he originally did. It also shows that someone who can tank attacks from such a fellow can tank quite a bit of force considering Kal El is such a PIS heavy character when need be.

5. Superman does have striking power beyond them because he has a level of PIS backing that people actually feel the need to try to debunk it because it's so insane. Nothing Thor, or BRB or Gladiator has done can compare to holding the mass of a Black Hole in terms of offensive feats.

6. You are assuming this... we already know DS can hurt The Spectre and Anti Monitor... why assume that he can not hurt or incapacitate Odin at all ?

7. Again it's assumptions... can you even define just how powerful one blast from Odin is ?

8. Superman has strength feats that are heavily ridiculous and PIS based... because of this we can say that someone who tanks attacks from this character ( especially in an enraged state ) has an incredible amount of durability... Odin has no physical feats to suggest he could hold a black hole in his hand... he has the Magical Power feats... but nothing like that. Honestly, I am tired of playing these games where you assume that Odin can one shot Darkseid... and then I have to come back with the rebuttal and so on and so forth. You have not seen anything that makes you think Darkseid can tank attacks from Odin... yet you can not legitimately say what level Odin's blasts are actually at. So it's like we are just playing the dozens again.

#25 Posted by The_Imperator (1896 posts) - - Show Bio

Ares is a non-factor, though is Darkseid allowed to drain either Odin or Ares in the context of the fight? He has done that to countless other gods in DC, and it would probably allow Thanos and Darkseid the chance to pull of a win.

#26 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3744 posts) - - Show Bio

Ares is a non-factor, though is Darkseid allowed to drain either Odin or Ares in the context of the fight? He has done that to countless other gods in DC, and it would probably allow Thanos and Darkseid the chance to pull of a win.

Darkseid is allowed to do whatever is necessary to win.

#27 Posted by The_Imperator (1896 posts) - - Show Bio

@evil_incarnate: Theoretically, then, Darkseid should be able to drain Ares while Thanos and Odin fight, and thus come in and aid Thanos. And wasn't Thanos able to at least temporarily match Odin? With that in mind, the added help of Darkseid probably gives team 1 the win.

#28 Edited by herrweis (428 posts) - - Show Bio

Ares is a war god older than both Thanos and darkseid .The mere fact that he harness' power from Battle makes him a factor.He is very much on their level.afterall he breached the source wall.

anyway id give it to odin and ares

#30 Edited by momo111191 (245 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: why are you insulting superman if pis is writing the best selling comic then i don't know what to tell you.

ps team 2

#31 Posted by King Saturn (223816 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: why are you insulting superman if pis is writing the best selling comic then i don't know what to tell you.

ps team 2

It's not insulting Superman... it's stating a reality. Superman's strength level is undefined... his strength level at it's peak shows he can hold a Black Hole in his hand which is totally impossible. Although the same can be said for moving planets as well...

#32 Posted by momo111191 (245 posts) - - Show Bio

@momo111191 said:

@king_saturn: why are you insulting superman if pis is writing the best selling comic then i don't know what to tell you.

ps team 2

It's not insulting Superman... it's stating a reality. Superman's strength level is undefined... his strength level at it's peak shows he can hold a Black Hole in his hand which is totally impossible. Although the same can be said for moving planets as well...

I'm not arguing with you on your feats i think they are relevant in fact i think darkseid is a huge factor in this fight. what i didn't think was right was calling superman mr.pis there is a reason he out sells the others and it because he is written better and if you don't think money grossed is the way to measure which comics are loved then most then im going to have to disagree.

#33 Posted by The_Imperator (1896 posts) - - Show Bio

@herrweis: What about that one time Darkseid arrived in Olympus and all the gods had run? Or Granny Goodness taking them out/. Personally, I think Darkseid was just so scared of Odin (he was in canon, but I like to take it a step further :P ) that he didn't want to go all out on Earth unless he knew for a fact Odin was dead.

Odin probably wins, though Darkseid is the deciding factor. Thanos can at least spar with Odin for a little while, while Darkseid should be able to take out Ares. Making it a two on one, with one guy that can and has repeatedly drained gods. All out fight, probably give it to team two, but give team one time to think at all in a drawn out battle and I can see them pulling it off.

#34 Posted by IRS (455 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pulling for team 1 due to Darkseid.

#35 Posted by The_Imperator (1896 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright, just did the math for the black hole that Superman was holding. Assuming average dust length of 4 micrometers (smallest average I found was .5 micrometers, largest was 254, so I went with for. nice and small, but not crushingly so), then the black hole has a mass of 2.697*10^21 kg. Which, assuming that Superman has a mass of 107 kg (assuming Dc.wikia is correct), means the black hole was exerting a force of 8.56*10^16 N. How does that force compare to other things?

#36 Posted by 18hunt (2891 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanoseid can win but not Thanos and Darkseid

#37 Posted by New_World_Order (12520 posts) - - Show Bio

Ares could hold his own against either Thanos or Darkseid.

However, Odin fighting to the best of his abilities, neither Thanos nor Darkseid, nor both of them together can hold their own against him.

Its one sided.

Ares hold his own with Thanos? Are you sure? Darkseid, yes. But not Thanos. I agree with the rest though.

#38 Posted by Killemall (18260 posts) - - Show Bio

Ares hold his own with Thanos? Are you sure? Darkseid, yes. But not Thanos. I agree with the rest though.

Ares is pretty powerful as a character, he was stomping Wonder Woman the only time they actually fought, he killed Highfather, he also beat Hades and took over hell.

DC Ares is pretty cool..

#39 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3744 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath said:

Ares hold his own with Thanos? Are you sure? Darkseid, yes. But not Thanos. I agree with the rest though.

Ares is pretty powerful as a character, he was stomping Wonder Woman the only time they actually fought, he killed Highfather, he also beat Hades and took over hell.

DC Ares is pretty cool..

People seem to forget two things.

1) Ares as you mentioned beat Hades and is thus also king of the Underworld as well as the God of War. This gives him control of the dead, a death wave, etc.

2) Ares as the God of War is and strengthened by any and all battle including this one.

#40 Edited by argusx (94 posts) - - Show Bio

Wasn't Ares around or above Darkseids level back when he was split from his roman counterpart? than he went through a series of amps so he should be more powerful than him.

#41 Posted by DaAwesome2 (266 posts) - - Show Bio
  
#42 Posted by King Saturn (223816 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright, just did the math for the black hole that Superman was holding. Assuming average dust length of 4 micrometers (smallest average I found was .5 micrometers, largest was 254, so I went with for. nice and small, but not crushingly so), then the black hole has a mass of 2.697*10^21 kg. Which, assuming that Superman has a mass of 107 kg (assuming Dc.wikia is correct), means the black hole was exerting a force of 8.56*10^16 N. How does that force compare to other things?

Math is usually an exact science... you assumed a lot in your premise to try to calculate the feat... that is the problem... because you don't know how large the black hole was to actually say it's this size then try to calculate it's force.

( Don't you think it's a bit much to assume multiple variables to try and find a calculation )

#43 Edited by The_Imperator (1896 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: While that is true, I was simply giving a rough estimate. Did Atom say how small he had become?

#44 Posted by NeonGameWave (7700 posts) - - Show Bio

Odin solos and obliterates.

#45 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio
#46 Posted by New_World_Order (12520 posts) - - Show Bio
#47 Posted by XiiX (7434 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2.

#48 Posted by laflux (14159 posts) - - Show Bio

Odin Solos

#49 Posted by herrweis (428 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_imperator: I rememebr those stories and Ares for some reason was NOT part of all that.(I just reread them a few days ago)

#50 Edited by Spartan101 (2284 posts) - - Show Bio

any in team 1 can pose a threat to odin,and either can most likely hold off or beat ares,so imo its a pretty good fight here,team 2 wins it for me,but odin is going to have to go full on to take them down for good. 7/10 team 2.