Dark Schneider vs Void Sentry

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BlessedbyHorus

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@king_stranglehold_da_first said:

@uberhikari said:

@king_stranglehold_da_first: LOL! I thought you were trying to say something and I wasn't getting it. I just had a derp moment.

Yeah. I just want to know how does DS stomp Silver Surfer completely. I even stated that DS would most likely win, but disagreed that it would be a stomp.

Silver Surfer has no way to get pass Dispel Bound. I'm not sure Silver Surfer could even hurt DS. Plus, DS has major hax like Judas Priest, which simply erases the target from existence by directly attacking the material body, the mind, and the soul simultaneously.

Oh okay.

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Albertphytagoras

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Now here is a chracter that would defeat Sentry/Void.

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Fallschirmjager

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#53  Edited By Fallschirmjager

@albertphytagoras said:

Now here is a chracter that would defeat Sentry/Void.

There is very few people who can beat DS. His hax is just layered so ridiculously well. Massive speed, Massive durability, regeneration from 3 planes of existence, ability to absorb energy, can read minds, can open black holes, can attack with absolute zero, can erase people from existence, he has no morals about killing people...and so on. Its just too much.

The guy is practically built to win battle boards.

And that's just his on panel feats. His implied power is even higher.

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hart7668

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Thread is officially de-railed.

If I read the DS respect thread correctly, then Dark Schneider should have no problem taking a theoretically strong Void, or the actual feats Void has shown.

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uberhikari

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@highku said:

@fallschirmjager said:

@albertphytagoras said:

Now here is a chracter that would defeat Sentry/Void.

There is very few people who can beat DS. His hax is just layered so ridiculously well. Massive speed, Massive durability, regeneration from 3 planes of existence, ability to absorb energy, can read minds, can open black holes, can attack with absolute zero, can erase people from existence, he has no morals about killing people...and so on. Its just too much.

The guy is practically built to win battle boards.

And that's just his on panel feats. His implied power is even higher.

It almost makes you wonder why someone (@uberhikari) would create this battle and defend DS. Weird.

I thought Void/Sentry was stronger. I know he's universal with molecular manipulation which is definitely too much for Dark Schneider, so I took that away. I didn't realize that he didn't have any other impressive feats without molecular manipulation. I just assumed he did because he beat Molecule Man afterall.

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Fallschirmjager

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#57  Edited By Fallschirmjager

@uberhikari: You have to go up to Galactus level opponents before you can challenge DS. (Not saying DS beats Galactus, but it would be fun to watch :P.

Even guys like Odin are gonna get stomped.

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uberhikari

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#58  Edited By uberhikari

@uberhikari: You have to go up to Galactus level opponents before you can challenge DS. (Not saying DS beats Galactus, but it would be fun to watch :P.

Even guys like Odin are gonna get stomped.

I disagree and I've already explained why in the respect thread. DS would get absolutely godstomped by Galactus (if he ate a planet before the battle). I would put DS somewhere above skyfather but way below universal.

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PrinceAragorn1

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Still Darsh.

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lowlaville

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@fallschirmjager said:

@uberhikari: You have to go up to Galactus level opponents before you can challenge DS. (Not saying DS beats Galactus, but it would be fun to watch :P.

Even guys like Odin are gonna get stomped.

I disagree and I've already explained why in the respect thread. DS would get absolutely godstomped by Galactus (if he ate a planet before the battle). I would put DS somewhere above skyfather but way below universal.

No... Darsh is universal in a sense. Most multiversal beings cannot even kill him.

And, Darrsh can realistically own both Zeus and Odin on one side with him on the other.

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uberhikari

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@uberhikari said:

@fallschirmjager said:

@uberhikari: You have to go up to Galactus level opponents before you can challenge DS. (Not saying DS beats Galactus, but it would be fun to watch :P.

Even guys like Odin are gonna get stomped.

I disagree and I've already explained why in the respect thread. DS would get absolutely godstomped by Galactus (if he ate a planet before the battle). I would put DS somewhere above skyfather but way below universal.

No... Darsh is universal in a sense. Most multiversal beings cannot even kill him.

And, Darrsh can realistically own both Zeus and Odin on one side with him on the other.

First, there is no sense in which Darsh is universal. Not even with the DKL.

Second, Darsh would get owned by any multiversal being.

Third, Odin would stomp Darsh. Odin actually has feats that put him around universal threat levels (and 1 feat has him even higher than universal threat levels).

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lowlaville

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@uberhikari: No... reality warper level multiversal beings like Franklin Richard literally cannot function anywhere near DS. And, since DS exists on 3 different levels, his Eternal Atoms are capable of reviving him on any of the other 2 levels should he be annihilated. Dispel Bound eliminates any hope of going close to DS. He is literally immune to every possible ability out there.

DKL has universe shattering potency. Seriously the only relevent beings that can wipe out DS with Dispel Bound are the likes of Eternity or Beyonder or TOAA.

DS has speed x infinity and is durable enough to tank a universe busting attack. Odin can't touch DS, even if maxed with Odin Force.

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uberhikari

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@lowlaville:

No... reality warper level multiversal beings like Franklin Richard literally cannot function anywhere near DS. And, since DS exists on 3 different levels, his Eternal Atoms are capable of reviving him on any of the other 2 levels should he be annihilated. Dispel Bound eliminates any hope of going close to DS. He is literally immune to every possible ability out there.

First, this is a no limits fallacy. Dark Schneider has no feats of using Dispel Bound to stop multiversal reality warping, so attributing such immunity to him is both without an evidentiary foundation is based on fallacious reasoning.

Second, if you're a multiversal being, you can travel across various planes of existence (even a sufficiently strong skyfather like Odin has battled Set on every plane of reality simultaneously) in order to attack DS's Eternal Atoms.

Third, you obviously don't understand Dispel Bound. I've written about this extensively in my debate with @fallschirmjager in THIS DS respect thread; if you want the scans in this post, skip to comment 21 in that thread. Here's what Dispel Bound is:

Dispel Bound is an automatic, passive defense system composed of a very large number of magical shields (and because we don't have an official translation it's not clear how many shields there are but we know there are a lot). It's an automatic defense system because it is always on even without the conscious or unconscious will of the user and it is a passive system because it doesn't attack the opponent actively it just passively defends the user. Furthermore, Dispel Bound is both a general and a specific defense system. It is a general defense system because all the shields must be broken to attack the user in any way and it is a specific defense system because each shield protects the user from a specific attack. (Also, the shields auto-regenerate at FTL speeds and Dispel Bound can be extended to those around the user like when DS uses it to protect the humans during his fight with Fallen Uriel.) Dispel Bound works like this: Dispel Bound creates a region around someone that nullifies abilities, in contrast to a spell bound which creates a region around someone or something that creates magical attacks. And this is important: Dispel Bound does not just nullify attacks, it nullifies abilities like regeneration, time manipulation, etc. So, for example, let's say you wanted to use telepathy against Dark Schneider. In order to do so you couldn't just destroy the shield that protects DS against telepathy, you would have to destroy every Dispel Bound shield and then use telepathy. And you would have to do this before any of the shields auto-regenerated.

Now, from what I remember there are only three ways to get around Dispel Bound: 1) You can be fast enough to destroy all the shields one-by-one and attack your opponent before the shields auto-regenerate; 2) You can destroy all the shields at once and then directly attack your opponent; or 3) You can simply be much stronger than the person using Dispel Bound (this 3rd one must be true otherwise Dispel Bound becomes a no limit fallacy). The first requires that you have insane speed and the second/third requires that you have insane power. This is how Raphael explains the first method in volume 22, chapter 121:

Now, here are some examples in the manga where Dispel Bound was broken. Volume 22, chapter 121-122

Dark Schneider's Dispel Bound stopped Uriel from regenerating. Then DS attacked Fallen Uriel several times directly, followed by Judas Priest which directly attacked his Eternal Atoms.

Now, here's an example of Fallen Uriel in his Augoeides form simply destroying Dark Schneider's Dispel Bound with one attack (this is from volume 23, chapter 125):

As you can see, this was not a high speed attack but was rather one powerful attack. Fallen Uriel's attack was so powerful that it completely deactivated the Judas Pain (which is a hell of a feat) and seriously injured Dark Schneider.

So, your understanding of how Dispel Bound works is incorrect. Dispel Bound isn't some get out of jail free card; there are actually 3 distinct ways to get around it. And, as I've explained, one of those ways is to simply be stronger than the person using Dispel Bound. If DS tried to fight Franklin Richards, he'd get uberstomped.

DKL has universe shattering potency. Seriously the only relevent beings that can wipe out DS with Dispel Bound are the likes of Eternity or Beyonder or TOAA.

There's no evidence in the manga that the DKL can destroy a universe. I have no idea what you're talking about.

DS has speed x infinity and is durable enough to tank a universe busting attack. Odin can't touch DS, even if maxed with Odin Force.

First, the DKL NEVER tanked a universe-busting attack. I don't know where you're getting this from either.

Second, the scan you're using to claim that the DKL (not Dark Schneider) has infinite speed is a fan translations, and there's no way to verify or confirm that what the fan translated is actually what's written in the original Japanese.

Third, Odin has already been in a fight with Set where their attacks traveled across every plane of reality. So, Odin attacking DS's Eternal Atoms is a piece of cake. Plus, Odin already has universal feats, like BFR's universal energy from Surtur that puts him above Dark Schneider's current feats. I have no doubt that at some point Dark Schneider will be stronger than Odin, but based on feats this is not currently the case.

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lowlaville

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@lowlaville:

No... reality warper level multiversal beings like Franklin Richard literally cannot function anywhere near DS. And, since DS exists on 3 different levels, his Eternal Atoms are capable of reviving him on any of the other 2 levels should he be annihilated. Dispel Bound eliminates any hope of going close to DS. He is literally immune to every possible ability out there.

First, this is a no limits fallacy. Dark Schneider has no feats of using Dispel Bound to stop multiversal reality warping, so attributing such immunity to him is both without an evidentiary foundation is based on fallacious reasoning.

Second, if you're a multiversal being, you can travel across various planes of existence (even a sufficiently strong skyfather like Odin has battled Set on every plane of reality simultaneously) in order to attack DS's Eternal Atoms.

Third, you obviously don't understand Dispel Bound. I've written about this extensively in my debate with @fallschirmjager in THIS DS respect thread; if you want the scans in this post, skip to comment 21 in that thread. Here's what Dispel Bound is:

Dispel Bound is an automatic, passive defense system composed of a very large number of magical shields (and because we don't have an official translation it's not clear how many shields there are but we know there are a lot). It's an automatic defense system because it is always on even without the conscious or unconscious will of the user and it is a passive system because it doesn't attack the opponent actively it just passively defends the user. Furthermore, Dispel Bound is both a general and a specific defense system. It is a general defense system because all the shields must be broken to attack the user in any way and it is a specific defense system because each shield protects the user from a specific attack. (Also, the shields auto-regenerate at FTL speeds and Dispel Bound can be extended to those around the user like when DS uses it to protect the humans during his fight with Fallen Uriel.) Dispel Bound works like this: Dispel Bound creates a region around someone that nullifies abilities, in contrast to a spell bound which creates a region around someone or something that creates magical attacks. And this is important: Dispel Bound does not just nullify attacks, it nullifies abilities like regeneration, time manipulation, etc. So, for example, let's say you wanted to use telepathy against Dark Schneider. In order to do so you couldn't just destroy the shield that protects DS against telepathy, you would have to destroy every Dispel Bound shield and then use telepathy. And you would have to do this before any of the shields auto-regenerated.

Now, from what I remember there are only three ways to get around Dispel Bound: 1) You can be fast enough to destroy all the shields one-by-one and attack your opponent before the shields auto-regenerate; 2) You can destroy all the shields at once and then directly attack your opponent; or 3) You can simply be much stronger than the person using Dispel Bound (this 3rd one must be true otherwise Dispel Bound becomes a no limit fallacy). The first requires that you have insane speed and the second/third requires that you have insane power. This is how Raphael explains the first method in volume 22, chapter 121:

Now, here are some examples in the manga where Dispel Bound was broken. Volume 22, chapter 121-122

Dark Schneider's Dispel Bound stopped Uriel from regenerating. Then DS attacked Fallen Uriel several times directly, followed by Judas Priest which directly attacked his Eternal Atoms.

Now, here's an example of Fallen Uriel in his Augoeides form simply destroying Dark Schneider's Dispel Bound with one attack (this is from volume 23, chapter 125):

As you can see, this was not a high speed attack but was rather one powerful attack. Fallen Uriel's attack was so powerful that it completely deactivated the Judas Pain (which is a hell of a feat) and seriously injured Dark Schneider.

So, your understanding of how Dispel Bound works is incorrect. Dispel Bound isn't some get out of jail free card; there are actually 3 distinct ways to get around it. And, as I've explained, one of those ways is to simply be stronger than the person using Dispel Bound. If DS tried to fight Franklin Richards, he'd get uberstomped.

DKL has universe shattering potency. Seriously the only relevent beings that can wipe out DS with Dispel Bound are the likes of Eternity or Beyonder or TOAA.

There's no evidence in the manga that the DKL can destroy a universe. I have no idea what you're talking about.

DS has speed x infinity and is durable enough to tank a universe busting attack. Odin can't touch DS, even if maxed with Odin Force.

First, the DKL NEVER tanked a universe-busting attack. I don't know where you're getting this from either.

Second, the scan you're using to claim that the DKL (not Dark Schneider) has infinite speed is a fan translations, and there's no way to verify or confirm that what the fan translated is actually what's written in the original Japanese.

Third, Odin has already been in a fight with Set where their attacks traveled across every plane of reality. So, Odin attacking DS's Eternal Atoms is a piece of cake. Plus, Odin already has universal feats, like BFR's universal energy from Surtur that puts him above Dark Schneider's current feats. I have no doubt that at some point Dark Schneider will be stronger than Odin, but based on feats this is not currently the case.

You apparantly misunderstood. I know how DS's Eternal Atoms work. However, 3 of the planes are protected by Dispel Bound. That means say Odin for example, he has to have means of bypassing Dispel Bound.

By feat, that attack (forgot name) had the power of big bang, the same attack DS tanked.

Other than that, its up to you whether you accept one part of translations and abandon the other. Im not really going to argue on their validity.

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uberhikari

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#66  Edited By uberhikari

@lowlaville:

You apparantly misunderstood. I know how DS's Eternal Atoms work. However, 3 of the planes are protected by Dispel Bound. That means say Odin for example, he has to have means of bypassing Dispel Bound.

Yes...but what's your point? I've already given you 3 ways to bypass Dispel Bound.

By feat, that attack (forgot name) had the power of big bang, the same attack DS tanked.

There is no attack in Bastard!! that has the power of a big bang. But even if there was, Odin has already BFR'd universe-destroying flames from Surtur. Perhaps you're talking about the destruction of the Black Abyss?

Other than that, its up to you whether you accept one part of translations and abandon the other. Im not really going to argue on their validity.

True. However, other than a character statement saying that Dark Schneider has infinite speed, there is no corroborating evidence that this is true. There's certainly no feats to suggest that this is true.

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lowlaville

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@lowlaville:

You apparantly misunderstood. I know how DS's Eternal Atoms work. However, 3 of the planes are protected by Dispel Bound. That means say Odin for example, he has to have means of bypassing Dispel Bound.

Yes...but what's your point? I've already given you 3 ways to bypass Dispel Bound.

By feat, that attack (forgot name) had the power of big bang, the same attack DS tanked.

There is no attack in Bastard!! that has the power of a big bang. But even if there was, Odin has already BFR'd universe-destroying flames from Surtur. Perhaps you're talking about the destruction of the Black Abyss?

Other than that, its up to you whether you accept one part of translations and abandon the other. Im not really going to argue on their validity.

True. However, other than a character statement saying that Dark Schneider has infinite speed, there is no corroborating evidence that this is true. There's certainly no feats to suggest that this is true.

- DS already proved he can construct the shields of Dispel Bound at infinite speeds, So no, I don't really buy that. As far as I know, Void Sentry can't attack x infinity.

- Quote from the respect thread:

Destructive Capability

Scan 1) The Black Abyss is destroyed as a side effect of DS and Uriel's battle.

Scan 2) Description of the Black Abyss, a super-massive black hole with the equivalent mass of fifty million suns.

Scans 3-4) Reality shatters and the dimension barriers between worlds cracks open.

Scans 5-7) Explanation, with Lucifer stating the power to break the dimension barrier between worlds would take the equivalent power to that of the Big Bang.

Scans 7) The Judas Priest Dark Schneider are capable of destroying the Black Abyss.

- fallscrimjager

You can find the scans on the thread. DS dealt and tanked such forceful blows.

- Yes, there is no feat, because you are apparantly debunking the one feat there is, the only high speed fight in the manga.

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uberhikari

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#68  Edited By uberhikari

@lowlaville: Ok, you've gotten several things wrong here because you're missing a huge amount of context. I could correct you, but at this point I don't think it matters. I think we both agree that Dark Schneider beats Sentry, and that's what matters.

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homicidalmaniac

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It always a joy to read Uberhikria debate against someone.

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#70  Edited By lol

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