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#1 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

vs

  • All Pre Shipuden.
  • Death or KO.
  • Morals off.
  • No Tail Beast Form.
  • No Angel Arm Canon, Vash gets his Angel Arm Shield.
  • Standard Gear.
  • No Outside Interference (Summon Giant Toads with free will, thats outside Interference)
  • Battle in the woods, starting 20 feet apart.

#2 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11040 posts) - - Show Bio

Morals off Lee, and Naruto...wait, I don't see any restrictions on Vash so unless the team can stop him before he blows everyone to smithereens DH team wins.

#3 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9407 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

........ your joking right? Vash angel nukes their face off spite

#5 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103 said:

@cadencev2:

........ your joking right? Vash angel nukes their face off spite

But, but, 100,000 Naurtos and all are tail beast! What about speed blitz hypersonic drunk Lee?

Seriously if you say its spite, then I will edit no Angel Arm and no Tail Forms.

#6 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: @thatguywithheadphones: Edited. And TGWH I hope you do remember Guts has his Berserker Armor in this and this is Post Blood Seras with Harkonen II cannons.

#7 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9407 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Better now honestly this is tough match up morals off it might be possible for vash to get a quick draw off before the naruto team can react (IIRC he has insane reflecs as well)

if they have the time to trigger there ability's they win but in a hell of a fight vash would need to get swarmbed by naruto clones fast or he could shoot down Naruto team

Lee is the one best suited to take down Guts being fast enough to doge his massive sword and strong enough to hurt him thoughe his armor

Neji if he can get into CIC might be able to take Seras more likely he dies here preety quickly

#8 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7031 posts) - - Show Bio

Guns > kunai :P

#9 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Better now honestly this is tough match up morals off it might be possible for vash to get a quick draw off before the naruto team can react (IIRC he has insane reflecs as well)

if they have the time to trigger there ability's they win but in a hell of a fight vash would need to get swarmbed by naruto clones fast or he could shoot down Naruto team

Lee is the one best suited to take down Guts being fast enough to doge his massive sword and strong enough to hurt him thoughe his armor

Neji if he can get into CIC might be able to take Seras more likely he dies here preety quickly

I think Seras is the most dangerous one here.

She has Hypersonic reflexes as a true Vampire like Alucard, massive regen, slicey dicey Shadow Arm, and over Mach 5 Anti Tank Weapons which she fires with Supernatural Accuracy.

#10 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9407 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

hece why neji is F**ed and is only buying time for the rest of his team to deal with their guys to tag team her

#11 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

hece why neji is F**ed and is only buying time for the rest of his team to deal with their guys to tag team her

Oh, I thought you meant Neji could solo her.

#12 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9407 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

no he might stand a chance if he can get off his sealing technique ( assuming it works on outer universes) but most likely he dies

he takes 3/10

#13 Edited by Chibi_cute (4541 posts) - - Show Bio

The way i see it Seras can solo. pre shippuden just make this into more of a stomp

#14 Posted by those_eyes (6624 posts) - - Show Bio

guts solos!

Online
#15 Edited by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11040 posts) - - Show Bio

guts solos!

ah...no Guts it just gonna be support here.

#16 Posted by lukehero (8393 posts) - - Show Bio

All Pre Shipuden. No Outside Interference (Summon Giant Toads with free will, thats outside Interference)

  • No Tail Beast Form.

------------------

Naruto team dies a sad, horrendous, painful death....

#17 Posted by TheMagicStik (1736 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know the first person but Rock Lee would stomp Vash and Guts, he is wayyyy too fast for them.

#18 Posted by Chibi_cute (4541 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know the first person but Rock Lee would stomp Vash and Guts, he is wayyyy too fast for them.

Vash can see a bullet in slow motion and react to it.

#19 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

@themagicstik said:

I don't know the first person but Rock Lee would stomp Vash and Guts, he is wayyyy too fast for them.

Vash can see a bullet in slow motion and react to it.

Haku could literally see everything in slow motion, and blitz a dozen naruto clones at once. and lee won't even need to go weights off to blitz his head off.

#20 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@chibi_cute said:

@themagicstik said:

I don't know the first person but Rock Lee would stomp Vash and Guts, he is wayyyy too fast for them.

Vash can see a bullet in slow motion and react to it.

Haku could literally see everything in slow motion, and blitz a dozen naruto clones at once. and lee won't even need to go weights off to blitz his head off.

m going to still say Mach 1= bullet > Haku.

#21 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@chibi_cute said:

@themagicstik said:

I don't know the first person but Rock Lee would stomp Vash and Guts, he is wayyyy too fast for them.

Vash can see a bullet in slow motion and react to it.

Haku could literally see everything in slow motion, and blitz a dozen naruto clones at once. and lee won't even need to go weights off to blitz his head off.

m going to still say Mach 1= bullet > Haku.

how is that possible? When has mach 1 bullet hit 12 people before a falling water drop could change it's shape? (not fall, even advance noticably)

#22 Posted by TheMagicStik (1736 posts) - - Show Bio

@chibi_cute: I know Vash is fast but he isn't Chunin exams Rock Lee fast.

#23 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know about vash.

But Guts isn't doing anything here at all, nor is seras.

#24 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know about vash.

But Guts isn't doing anything here at all, nor is seras.

Really, Seras not doing..., Im sorry, your high. Seras is easily near Hypersonic, has the greatest Regen, can only be killed with a specific ritual of heart stab followed decapitation, a Shadow arm that slices steel, and has Hyper Sonic Anti Tank shells with supernatural aiming.

Your lowballing hard core now to say Seras is a non factor >_>

#26 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1 said:

I don't know about vash.

But Guts isn't doing anything here at all, nor is seras.

Really, Seras not doing..., Im sorry, your high. Seras is easily near Hypersonic, has the greatest Regen, can only be killed with a specific ritual of heart stab followed decapitation, a Shadow arm that slices steel, and has Hyper Sonic Anti Tank shells with supernatural aiming.

Your lowballing hard core now to say Seras is a non factor >_>

No I'm not. Seras is hypersonic how again?

#27 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@princearagorn1 said:

I don't know about vash.

But Guts isn't doing anything here at all, nor is seras.

Really, Seras not doing..., Im sorry, your high. Seras is easily near Hypersonic, has the greatest Regen, can only be killed with a specific ritual of heart stab followed decapitation, a Shadow arm that slices steel, and has Hyper Sonic Anti Tank shells with supernatural aiming.

Your lowballing hard core now to say Seras is a non factor >_>

No I'm not. Seras is hypersonic how again?

Alucard is Hypersonic by feats, as is Dandy Man, and the Werewolf Commander seems to be since he blitz Alucard a few times. Seras match speeds with the werewolf fine, she out ran the explosions of a Zeppelin. She casually blitzes Mach Speed Vampires.

Some more examples.

1) She moves faster than Mach 1 bullets fired from four vampires rapid firing on Hellsing herself with her Shadow Arm while her back is turn. Notcie the fact the Shadow Arm only covers a small area, and all Vampires are highly trained SS soldiers of WW2 with Mach 1 reaction times (They dodge bullets at near point blank after the bullets are fired, they did this all the time in there fight with the Humans) and in the official Anime adaptation by the creator of the manga, we see her shadow arm whipping around to stop every individual bullet from four firing vampires SS.

2-3) Many times she shown in the Anime adaptation and Manga to leave multiple after images of her attack before the blood can hit the gorund. more of a super sonic feat though.

4) She ran so fast down a couple hundred foot hallway to grind the face of a durable Vampire to nothing from the combination of insane super speed and friction on wall paper! That alone is jaw dropping speed acceleration in a short time, and short space.

There is many feat that put her above hyper Sonic and two that stand out as Hyper sonic easy. The Hallway feat and faster than the exploding helium of a Zeppelin.

#28 Posted by dondave (37380 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Naruto ftw, although Vash will be a big problem.

#29 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Alucard is Hypersonic by feats, as is Dandy Man,and the Werewolf Commander seems to be since he blitz Alucard a few times.

What feats?

Seras match speeds with the werewolf fine, she out ran the explosions of a Zeppelin. She casually blitzes Mach Speed Vampires.

...mach speed vampires how?...

Some more examples.

1) She moves faster than Mach 1 bullets fired from four vampires rapid firing on Hellsing herself with her Shadow Arm while her back is turn. Notcie the fact the Shadow Arm only covers a small area, and all Vampires are highly trained SS soldiers of WW2 with Mach 1 reaction times (They dodge bullets at near point blank after the bullets are fired, they did this all the time in there fight with the Humans) and in the official Anime adaptation by the creator of the manga, we see her shadow arm whipping around to stop every individual bullet from four firing vampires SS.

2-3) Many times she shown in the Anime adaptation and Manga to leave multiple after images of her attack before the blood can hit the gorund. more of a super sonic feat though.

4) She ran so fast down a couple hundred foot hallway to grind the face of a durable Vampire to nothing from the combination of insane super speed and friction on wall paper! That alone is jaw dropping speed acceleration in a short time, and short space.

There is many feat that put her above hyper Sonic and two that stand out as Hyper sonic easy. The Hallway feat and faster than the exploding helium of a Zeppelin.

I see. I still don't see why she is faster than haku with mirrors:

back from arc 1:

Cloaked naruto and sharingan sasuke both have combat speed above haku.

And sharingan sasuke (pre-chidori training) got blitzed by base lee..

Haku is far slower compared to lee..

from chunin arc:

lee, without even taking off the weights, can keep up with sound speed moves. The reason he does use lotus is to finish the fight, considering he was outnumbered.

We don't know how much faster taking off the weights makes him, but we can say it's several times as fast. (at least twice or thrice)

If the speed still isn't enough, he can use initial lotus to get a 5x boost over the weights off speed. (normally, a shinobi uses 1/5th of their strength, due to brain's restrictions. Primary lotus removes this first restriction.)

Funnily enough, this speed was still not enough to beat neji, which is why lee learned the hidden lotus (gate 3-5)..

---------------------

Guts is doing nothing here. And seras is a little slow to do anything. Idk about vash.

#30 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1 said:

@cadencev2:

Alucard is Hypersonic by feats, as is Dandy Man,and the Werewolf Commander seems to be since he blitz Alucard a few times.

What feats?

Seras match speeds with the werewolf fine, she out ran the explosions of a Zeppelin. She casually blitzes Mach Speed Vampires.

...mach speed vampires how?...

Some more examples.

1) She moves faster than Mach 1 bullets fired from four vampires rapid firing on Hellsing herself with her Shadow Arm while her back is turn. Notcie the fact the Shadow Arm only covers a small area, and all Vampires are highly trained SS soldiers of WW2 with Mach 1 reaction times (They dodge bullets at near point blank after the bullets are fired, they did this all the time in there fight with the Humans) and in the official Anime adaptation by the creator of the manga, we see her shadow arm whipping around to stop every individual bullet from four firing vampires SS.

2-3) Many times she shown in the Anime adaptation and Manga to leave multiple after images of her attack before the blood can hit the gorund. more of a super sonic feat though.

4) She ran so fast down a couple hundred foot hallway to grind the face of a durable Vampire to nothing from the combination of insane super speed and friction on wall paper! That alone is jaw dropping speed acceleration in a short time, and short space.

There is many feat that put her above hyper Sonic and two that stand out as Hyper sonic easy. The Hallway feat and faster than the exploding helium of a Zeppelin.

I see. I still don't see why she is faster than haku with mirrors:

back from arc 1:

Cloaked naruto and sharingan sasuke both have combat speed above haku.

And sharingan sasuke (pre-chidori training) got blitzed by base lee..

Haku is far slower compared to lee..

from chunin arc:

lee, without even taking off the weights, can keep up with sound speed moves. The reason he does use lotus is to finish the fight, considering he was outnumbered.

We don't know how much faster taking off the weights makes him, but we can say it's several times as fast. (at least twice or thrice)

If the speed still isn't enough, he can use initial lotus to get a 5x boost over the weights off speed. (normally, a shinobi uses 1/5th of their strength, due to brain's restrictions. Primary lotus removes this first restriction.)

Funnily enough, this speed was still not enough to beat neji, which is why lee learned the hidden lotus (gate 3-5)..

---------------------

Guts is doing nothing here. And seras is a little slow to do anything. Idk about vash.

Problem is however that Seras is every bit as fast as Vash has shown. So why is Vash a threat, but Seras is overlooked? She also has Supernatural Aiming. She has faster bullets in Mach 5+ Depleted Uranium Anti Tank Shell Automatic cannons.

Add to this her Regen is insane high.

Why should Vash be a problem but Seras not? Why!?

And I hear Guts in his Berserker Armor is pretty insane. @thatguywithheadphones right?

#31 Edited by ShenKuei (1584 posts) - - Show Bio

Guts with berserk armor is too much. He can solo with the Berserk armor activated imo.

Even without it I'd still give it to the Dark Horse team. Seras is way outclasses any of the ninjas in speed, durability and strength (except maybe Lee). Vash is very hard to damage with his Angel Shield and since guns don't exist in Naruto (iirc) they will have a hard time dealing with his attacks. Morals-off Vash is a scary thought. Guts isn't much of a factor honestly without the Berserk armor. Neji won't be too much of a factor since Dark Horse team doesn't use chakra anyway. Naruto is too slow to be a serious threat imo. Lee will have to carry the team, more or less.

#32 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay This one

I know next to nothing of Naruto still...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#34 Posted by LimpoyzLoan (1646 posts) - - Show Bio

Berserker armor for Guts?

#35 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@cadencev2 said:

@floopay This one

I know next to nothing of Naruto still...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Its coo, its not its popular and regular seen. Not that you ever commented on Naruto Speed vs Street Level Heroes thread before....... you canot see my eyes, but I am looking away in exaggeration.

#36 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#37 Posted by Albertphytagoras (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Dark Horse wins.

#38 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@cadencev2 said:

@floopay This one

I know next to nothing of Naruto still...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Its coo, its not its popular and regular seen. Not that you ever commented on Naruto Speed vs Street Level Heroes thread before....... you canot see my eyes, but I am looking away in exaggeration.

I've seen their feats posted, I'm not impressed to be honest. A lot of the feats aren't as impressive as people make me think they are. I've even had people flat out lie to me about them before someone else posts the information missing from their scans.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#39 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@cadencev2 said:

@floopay said:

@cadencev2 said:

@floopay This one

I know next to nothing of Naruto still...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Its coo, its not its popular and regular seen. Not that you ever commented on Naruto Speed vs Street Level Heroes thread before....... you canot see my eyes, but I am looking away in exaggeration.

I've seen their feats posted, I'm not impressed to be honest. A lot of the feats aren't as impressive as people make me think they are. I've even had people flat out lie to me about them before someone else posts the information missing from their scans.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Are you referring to Dark horse or Naruto feats of speed? I am assuming Naruto.

#40 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Naruto, but I've seen quite the exaggeration on both sides. Seras has been shown to not quite be as fast as a bullet, though nearly as fast. This would put her at about Mach 1.5-2. Her greatest speed feat is grinding Zorin's face to nothing in a 100-200 foot hallway.

Vash isn't hypersonic, even the strongest versions. He's just hyperintelligent, and is generally moving or dodging long before his opponent has committed an action.

I haven't read/watched Berserk, so Guts is someone I'm not very aware of.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#41 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@cadencev2: Naruto, but I've seen quite the exaggeration on both sides. Seras has been shown to not quite be as fast as a bullet, though nearly as fast. This would put her at about Mach 1.5-2. Her greatest speed feat is grinding Zorin's face to nothing in a 100-200 foot hallway.

Vash isn't hypersonic, even the strongest versions. He's just hyperintelligent, and is generally moving or dodging long before his opponent has committed an action.

I haven't read/watched Berserk, so Guts is someone I'm not very aware of.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

You really do not think she is that fast compared to The Commander or the Bullet feat from multiple Vampires she reacts to with her individual blocking of bullets to protect Integra? or out running the Helium explosions of a Zeppelin at the end of Episode 9?

Seras was Bullet speed before being Post Blood Drink, she only got faster. I think Hypersonic may push it, but clearly Super Sonic.

#42 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: She had had a good 40 feet or more to react to the bullets and block Integra. The Commander was actually faster than her, and that was proven multiple times during their fight.

As for Bullet Speed, a lot of people are under the misconception that the SS Nazis were bullet speed. But as proven during their invasion of Hellsing Manner, they were only really fast enough to dodge bullet because they were far faster than human aim. When put against omni-directional bullets, they just plain and simply weren't fast enough to dodge a sub-bullet speed projectile (land mines launching shrapnel).

Seras has never been shown to be bullet speed, in fact, the Commander was able to tag her a few times with his gun before they really fought, while easily dodging Seras's shots.

I can provide more examples if you'd like.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#43 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@cadencev2: She had had a good 40 feet or more to react to the bullets and block Integra. The Commander was actually faster than her, and that was proven multiple times during their fight.

As for Bullet Speed, a lot of people are under the misconception that the SS Nazis were bullet speed. But as proven during their invasion of Hellsing Manner, they were only really fast enough to dodge bullet because they were far faster than human aim. When put against omni-directional bullets, they just plain and simply weren't fast enough to dodge a sub-bullet speed projectile (land mines launching shrapnel).

Seras has never been shown to be bullet speed, in fact, the Commander was able to tag her a few times with his gun before they really fought, while easily dodging Seras's shots.

I can provide more examples if you'd like.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Yes the commander shot her up, but why would she dodge? She has infinite healing. Or mayeb she did not have an easy time dodging a character firing bullets, but attacks her at the same time with his superior speed and skill?

As for the Commander, he dominated till Seras in turn increased her skill by listening to Bernadotte, her familiar. Its not that the Commander was superior in speed, pther wise she still would have been dominated in the fight, but he was clearly way far more skilled. Which you know dang well allows a character like say Shang Chi keep up with Captain America who is naturally faster. Or Batman to Deathstroke :/

Also Pre Blood, in the Anime (which is canon, the Manga writer did the voice casting and sat as head producer to make sure it was done right) showed Seras Following Bullets with her eyes when she blitz the ghouls :/

She also blitz the other Vampires rather easy, and blitzed Zorin with no trouble.

Also nothing to counter her outracing the explosion reaction of Helium through a Zeppelin.

Now does this mean she does not have what seems lower showings? No, but I easily countered those lower showings and consistently showsshe is very fast as a true blood Vampire post Blood Drink.

After all, Spider Man been tag by Bulls Eye who throws things like the tracker at Spidey, or Punisher who shot off Spider Man's web shooters. We all know the intention of Spidey is to be Multiple Machs in reaction and combat speed.

#44 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@princearagorn1 said:

I see. I still don't see why she is faster than haku with mirrors:

back from arc 1:

Cloaked naruto and sharingan sasuke both have combat speed above haku.

And sharingan sasuke (pre-chidori training) got blitzed by base lee..

Haku is far slower compared to lee..

from chunin arc:

lee, without even taking off the weights, can keep up with sound speed moves. The reason he does use lotus is to finish the fight, considering he was outnumbered.

We don't know how much faster taking off the weights makes him, but we can say it's several times as fast. (at least twice or thrice)

If the speed still isn't enough, he can use initial lotus to get a 5x boost over the weights off speed. (normally, a shinobi uses 1/5th of their strength, due to brain's restrictions. Primary lotus removes this first restriction.)

Funnily enough, this speed was still not enough to beat neji, which is why lee learned the hidden lotus (gate 3-5)..

---------------------

Guts is doing nothing here. And seras is a little slow to do anything. Idk about vash.

Problem is however that Seras is every bit as fast as Vash has shown. So why is Vash a threat, but Seras is overlooked? She also has Supernatural Aiming. She has faster bullets in Mach 5+ Depleted Uranium Anti Tank Shell Automatic cannons.

Add to this her Regen is insane high.

Why should Vash be a problem but Seras not? Why!?

And I hear Guts in his Berserker Armor is pretty insane. @thatguywithheadphones right?

I don't know about vash at all. I already said that. I have seen seras, and I don't see why she is faster, or even as fast as mirror haku.

I actually prefer Guts over every character in naruto. The guy is more badass than other two entire anime in the thread put together. (just naruto and hellsing, idk about vash, again) but I don't think even with berserker armor, he's beating lee. And I'm pretty sure guywithheadphones will agree battle-wise.

#45 Edited by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11040 posts) - - Show Bio

Regarding Guts: while he does has the destructive force to put down anyone he touches, that's where problem arise. Guts doesn't have the speed to tag anyone here. His best speed feats are FTTHE - transonic, feat that arc 1 Sasuke(and thus everyone here) could replicate.

#46 Posted by ShenKuei (1584 posts) - - Show Bio

@thatguywithheadphones: There is no way Naruto or Neji, pre-time skip have concrete transonic+ feats. That's a highly debatable claim even for weight-less Lee.

#47 Posted by Chibi_cute (4541 posts) - - Show Bio

lifting a 88mm artillery cannon with ease that can weight up to 6 tons. seras really solos.

#48 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11040 posts) - - Show Bio

lifting a 88mm artillery cannon with ease that can weight up to 6 tons. seras really solos.

1. This would just prove that she is physically stronger; this isn't a weight lifting contest. Contrary to what people think lifting things isn't the end all be all in battles, there'a also this.

#49 Posted by Chibi_cute (4541 posts) - - Show Bio

@thatguywithheadphones: And that scan proves.? it was the chakra of the demon fox that lets him do those feats. without the tail of the demon fox.. naruto gets shredded by seras easily..

Seras victoria. easily shreds and blitzes millenium vampires with ease who can even dodge automatic gunfire in a small corridor.Naruto and the team won't be able to keep up with that speed.

#50 Posted by Fallschirmjager (17451 posts) - - Show Bio

@chibi_cute: 88mm Flak 18's weight a little over 8 tons actually.

@thatguywithheadphones dismissing lifting or general strength feats is equally foolish. All types of strength is important to a battle. In fact, most fights use general strength more often than striking once they get into close quarters. Grappling, pulling, pushing, tackling, take downs, submissions are all based on general strength - not just punching power.

Not debating for either side, though. Just sayin.