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#51 Posted by cameron83 (7643 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with @bane_of_sith completely.

Daredevil pretty much wins. I think that there is somewhat underestimation on his part.

And he has dodged multiple bullets (and is capable of deflecting bullets) at pt. blank range. Why would arrows be more of a problem to dodge?

1.He can fire 10 at a time,DD still has the speed,reflexes,acrobatic ability,etc to dodge it.

2. He has the ability (because of the radar sense) to see any arrows that Hawkeye may try to ricochet (IF he can even do that,since I haven't seen him do that).

3. He stomps Hawkeye in fighting abilities. I know I've said this before,but DD is one of the best fighters in comics (even though Ult. Hawkeye is an amazing h2h combatant,one of the best in the Ultimates team,in my opinion). Ult. Hawkeye doesn't hold a candle up to him. He isn't fighting someone who has the same skill-set as canon fodder,this guy is basically immune to all of his advances.

#52 Edited by ferventking (259 posts) - - Show Bio

Someone already brought up the fingernail scene I am disappointed

#53 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

I think I'm leaning more towards Ultimate Hawkeye on this one, he's incredibly close to, if not the same, in terms of accuracy as Bullseye. His speed at spewing projectiles is also pretty high, DD can dodge some of the projectiles but I think Ultimate Hawkeye can catch him off guard and score a majority of wins.

He's incredibly close to Bullseye...who Daredevil has made a career out of schooling repeatedly, despite the fact that Lester's hand to hand resume is leagues above anything Barton can even dream about. Clint's dangerous, but Daredevil dodges Bullseye all the time. I don't understand why having accuracy close to Bullseye-level is supposed to let someone beat Daredevil when the Bullseye vs Daredevil score is something like 7-1 Daredevil.

#54 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

@thetruebarryallen said:

I think I'm leaning more towards Ultimate Hawkeye on this one, he's incredibly close to, if not the same, in terms of accuracy as Bullseye. His speed at spewing projectiles is also pretty high, DD can dodge some of the projectiles but I think Ultimate Hawkeye can catch him off guard and score a majority of wins.

He's incredibly close to Bullseye...who Daredevil has made a career out of schooling repeatedly, despite the fact that Lester's hand to hand resume is leagues above anything Barton can even dream about. Clint's dangerous, but Daredevil dodges Bullseye all the time. I don't understand why having accuracy close to Bullseye-level is supposed to let someone beat Daredevil when the Bullseye vs Daredevil score is something like 7-1 Daredevil.

I like how both of ya forget Hawkeye uses Guns half as much as his Bow and Arrows as standard gear, or how he also has Trick Arrows.

Also how you all ignore UNLIKE Bullseye, Hawkeye has Super Human Sight and Super Human Speed in Twitch Factor.

But lets compare him to Lester >_>

#55 Posted by jashro44 (25529 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

@thetruebarryallen said:

I think I'm leaning more towards Ultimate Hawkeye on this one, he's incredibly close to, if not the same, in terms of accuracy as Bullseye. His speed at spewing projectiles is also pretty high, DD can dodge some of the projectiles but I think Ultimate Hawkeye can catch him off guard and score a majority of wins.

He's incredibly close to Bullseye...who Daredevil has made a career out of schooling repeatedly, despite the fact that Lester's hand to hand resume is leagues above anything Barton can even dream about. Clint's dangerous, but Daredevil dodges Bullseye all the time. I don't understand why having accuracy close to Bullseye-level is supposed to let someone beat Daredevil when the Bullseye vs Daredevil score is something like 7-1 Daredevil.

I like how both of ya forget Hawkeye uses Guns half as much as his Bow and Arrows as standard gear, or how he also has Trick Arrows.

Also how you all ignore UNLIKE Bullseye, Hawkeye has Super Human Sight and Super Human Speed in Twitch Factor.

But lets compare him to Lester >_>

Well to be fair in the OP I did put He only has regular arrows so I guess that could be my fault. This is an old thread and I didn't know much about ultimate hawkeye when I made it.

All though bullseye has been known to use guns from time to time. I will edit Ultimate hawkeye and allow his pistols all though he still doesn't get trick arrows.

#56 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2 said:

@esquire said:

@thetruebarryallen said:

I think I'm leaning more towards Ultimate Hawkeye on this one, he's incredibly close to, if not the same, in terms of accuracy as Bullseye. His speed at spewing projectiles is also pretty high, DD can dodge some of the projectiles but I think Ultimate Hawkeye can catch him off guard and score a majority of wins.

He's incredibly close to Bullseye...who Daredevil has made a career out of schooling repeatedly, despite the fact that Lester's hand to hand resume is leagues above anything Barton can even dream about. Clint's dangerous, but Daredevil dodges Bullseye all the time. I don't understand why having accuracy close to Bullseye-level is supposed to let someone beat Daredevil when the Bullseye vs Daredevil score is something like 7-1 Daredevil.

I like how both of ya forget Hawkeye uses Guns half as much as his Bow and Arrows as standard gear, or how he also has Trick Arrows.

Also how you all ignore UNLIKE Bullseye, Hawkeye has Super Human Sight and Super Human Speed in Twitch Factor.

But lets compare him to Lester >_>

Well to be fair in the OP I did put He only has regular arrows so I guess that could be my fault. This is an old thread and I didn't know much about ultimate hawkeye when I made it.

All though bullseye has been known to use guns from time to time. I will edit Ultimate hawkeye and allow his pistols all though he still doesn't get trick arrows.

I thought he had his Trick Arrows. My bad.

#57 Posted by jashro44 (25529 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I feel like trick arrows would be unfair. Its a close fight as it is IMO.

#58 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

I like how both of ya forget Hawkeye uses Guns half as much as his Bow and Arrows as standard gear, or how he also has Trick Arrows.

Also how you all ignore UNLIKE Bullseye, Hawkeye has Super Human Sight and Super Human Speed in Twitch Factor.

But lets compare him to Lester >_>

As Jashro pointed out, he wasn't allowed his pistols before the OP edit. But even so, it's not like bullets are a huge game changer. Daredevil has dodged machine gun fire repeatedly and deflected bullets plenty of times, even smacking them back to hit the shooter. And off the top of my head, he's dodged Bullseye with a shotgun at close range before, too.

And yes, Hawkeye has "super human attributes," which Lester theoretically doesn't. (Although the more recent bios list some of his stats as enhanced, interestingly.) But personally, I'm a lot more interested in what Clint does on the battlefield than what Nick Fury says in a briefing room. And as feats go, Bullseye and Ultimate Hawkeye are pretty comparable with regards to accuracy, while Bullseye has a clear advantage in hand-to-hand and also has better durability and striking power, thanks to adamantium lacing on some of his bones. And yet Daredevil beats him down repeatedly.

If you can show me feats that put Clint's accuracy notably above Bullseye's, then maybe you can get offended. But the only thing I can think of that Bullseye doesn't have a direct analogue to is the RPG feat, and he's got enough other feats to make up for it. I'm not lowballing Hawkeye. I've read a lot of his appearances, and I've read your tribute thread. He's very good at what he does, and I'm not really even making an argument as to who wins this battle. But TheTrueBarryAllen's argument was the Hawkeye's accuracy is comparable to Bullseye's, so he wins. I was merely pointing out the obvious flaw, namely that it hasn't worked out so well for Bullseye.

#59 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: I think the fact Hawkeye Finger Nail and RPG feat are great Accuracy feats, comparable to Bullseye's famous Tooth Pick and Paper Airplane feats.

As far as Super Human attributes, Hawkeye has shown Super Human sight in feats.

  • 1) Seen thru the Nuclear Blast that blinded everyone else in the City arcs.
  • 2) Sees long distance mutiple times in Comics.
  • 3) Sees through one way glass with no probs.

He has Super Human Sight. Bullseye does not.

Twitch Factor is also proven in many feats.

  • 1) The rapid Fire of 500 FPS Arrows right behind another.
  • 2) Instant 3 arrows in Kree Heads.
  • 3) Guns down 8 Guards in a blink of a eye.
  • 4) Kept up with Ultimate spider Man and shot out his on webs with Guns.
  • 5) Faster than Black Widow, she has Super Human Speed in feats and bio.

So yes, Ultimate Hawk Twitch Factor exists in feats, unlike Lester.

So that is 2 Range Benefits over Lester where Lester is better H2H fighter with Adamantium Bones.

Not Comparable IMO.

#60 Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen (6360 posts) - - Show Bio

I wasn't saying that he WAS Lester, I was explaining that they had similar accuracy in terms of using projectiles, they've both got different styles and like Cadence said Hawkeye has his Super Human Sight due to cybernetic implants IIRC.

So just to clear it up, I was only comparing their accuracy, not comparing both of them and calling them the same >.<

#62 Edited by Bane_of_sith (2796 posts) - - Show Bio

I still stick with daredevil lol

#63 Edited by jashro44 (25529 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18: no trick arrows in this scenario.

#64 Posted by patrat18 (10882 posts) - - Show Bio
#65 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (7084 posts) - - Show Bio

DD.

#66 Posted by MonsterStomp (20597 posts) - - Show Bio

Where is that scan where Bullseye throws the paper air plane at DD and he gets knocked out? Or knocked down. Weak showing of durability.

Online
#67 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

I wasn't saying that he WAS Lester, I was explaining that they had similar accuracy in terms of using projectiles, they've both got different styles and like Cadence said Hawkeye has his Super Human Sight due to cybernetic implants IIRC.

So just to clear it up, I was only comparing their accuracy, not comparing both of them and calling them the same >.<

Naturally! To say that they're the same character is absurd, and I never even implied that you had done so. Which doesn't mean I find your actual point to be a lot more compelling.

The two characters are not the same, but they both are focused around the same facet of their character: Accuracy with projectiles. And both of them have decent feats, good feats, and downright unreasonable feats, to the point that I am more than willing to call them equals in terms of accuracy. Both are absolute top tier marksmen with any weapon, and were I to differentiate between their skill levels, it would only be due to personal bias. So I am more than happy to admit that Ultimate Hawkeye has Bullseye-level accuracy.

And my point is, Bullseye-level accuracy means basically squat against Daredevil, who cut his teeth dancing around projectiles thrown with exactly Bullseye-level accuracy by the man himself. Daredevil is more than capable of rocking Lester's world, accuracy or not. My point is, having Bullseye-level accuracy alone does not give you the win against Daredevil, in fact it's exactly the opposite. Daredevil has proved, time and again, that he is better than someone with that level of accuracy. That accuracy will have to be backed up by something else, and evidently something more substantial than impressive durability and pretty solid h2h. Since Clint is inferior in close combat, he'll need to be substantially better at something else in order to have a shot at taking even a couple of rounds away from Murdock.

Luckily, Clint is not without advantages, as was so exclamatorily elucidated upon by Cadence. He has, according to our self-professed purveyor of all knowledge Ultimate, three. Superhuman eyesight, handguns, and superhuman speed. Let's break these down a bit, shall we?

#1: Superhuman Eyesight

An intuitive and obviously useful power for a ranged character, this has allowed Hawkeye to accomplish, apparently, three things:

1) Seen thru the Nuclear Blast that blinded everyone else in the City arcs.

Daredevil carries no explosives, and there are no explosives on the battlefield. The only explosions that Hawkeye might be seeing through are ones created by his trick arrows, but he doesn't even have those here. So there is no possibility of an explosion for Hawkeye to see her. A decent feat, I suppose, but not relevant here. For this scenario, this feat shows no advantage over Bullseye.

2) Sees long distance mutiple times in Comics.

Without bothering to try any serious form of measurement, I would estimate this battlefield is somewhere around 200 feet long. Not a long distance, and certainly one that Bullseye could see across. For this scenario, this feat shows no advantage over Bullseye.

3) Sees through one way glass with no probs.

This map is almost entirely devoid of glass, much less the thick one-way stuff. For this scenario, this feat shows no advantage over Bullseye.

So superhuman sight really seems to be of no relevance in this battle. To be fair, it may help him a bit in picking out Daredevil as he moves from cover to cover, but Cadence gave no indication of any feats that would indicate him actually being more adept than normal at such an activity.

#2: Handguns

Hawkeye uses guns, and Bullseye usually doesn't, at least against Daredevil. Seems like a big deal, no?

The issue I have with making this a big deal is that comics in general have never made this a big deal. For a perfect example, look at Red Hood and the Outlaws. Red Hood is an expert with pistols, Arsenal is an expert with a bow. Who's more effective at range? Usually Harper, despite his supposedly inferior weapon. And as for Ultimate Hawkeye himself, his feats with guns are no more impressive than those he has with a bow. I would venture to say they're even less so, to be honest. Hawkeye is on the Avengers, not Punisher. Green Arrow has made a career out of beating gun-toting foes with his bow. Shado, Merlyn, Connor Hawke, even Bullseye and Ultimate Hawkeye have shown that -- in the comic book world we're debating about -- it is just as, if not more, effective to use a bow as it is to use a gun.

And Daredevil himself has spent his career toying with bullets. In his origin miniseries, the very first time he ever fights crime, he deflects a bullet, from close range, straight back into the shooter's head. He's been dancing around and deflecting bullets of all shapes, sizes, and rates of fire for his entire career. Bullets are not a gamechanger for Daredevil any more than they are for Hawkeye. Maybe you disagree, but I don't see handguns as a big deal here.

#3: Superhuman Speed

This is the big one, and it is genuinely a significant advantage in almost every scenario. He shoots arrows and bullets very quickly, and he moves pretty darn quick as well. Bullseye is extremely agile himself, and has bullet-timer reflexes. He's also taken out a room full of gun-wielding soldiers using as assault rifle. Rate of fire with guns isn't something much affected by the user. So, if Hawkeye is using his handguns, his rate of fire advantage seemingly isn't that significant. His agility and mobility is also not something I would put above Bulseye's, who has gone on rooftop chases with Daredevil and Gambit, as well as being a bullet dodger.

So we're down to addressing the rate of fire with the bow and arrow.This, to me, is his major advantage over Bullseye, whereas Bullseye's major edge is richochets. (I can't think of any Ult Clint bounce shots, at least off the top of my head.) But is Rate of Fire enough to get the edge over Daredevil? Personally, I'm inclined to think not. He's dodged multiple assailants with guns many times, he's dodged machine gun fire, he's dodged Bullseye when Lester was using multiple projectiles at a time, even. With as much cover as he's got here, and with radar sense to show him the trajectory of each projectile before it gets there, and with the billy clubs to swat away anything that gets too close for comfort, I don't really see Daredevil having trouble taking this to close combat a large majority of the time. And in h2h, Clint gets steamrolled. Sure, he can spam his handguns up close like he's done in the past, but Daredevil can disarm him or even KO him with a thrown or ricocheted billy club. Clint has no reason to suspect a bounce shot, and that could be a reasonably easy way to win for Daredevil.

Do I believe that Ultimate Hawkeye will get swept here? Of course not. I see him taking 2-4 of 10, probably hovering mostly in the 2.5 to 3 range. I think that with Daredevil's radar sense to track projectiles and map routes through cover, combined with the amount of cover he has, will give Matt a good chance of navigating to Clint's position. And with DD's experience fighting a top-tier marksman, I think he has what it takes to dodge the shots that Hawkeye is able to take at him. Not a bad fight, by any means, but I don't think Clint's advantages over Lester are significant enough to grant him a majority here.

#68 Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen (6360 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: Alright cool :)

I was just making sure that nobody though I was calling Clint & Lester the same, though you're right about their similarities!

The scans from Cadence also helped in terms of showing why Ult. Clint is actually above Lester, though some feats may not be as applicable here.

#69 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruebarryallen: Get back to me when Clint bounces a hubcap off of 2 walls and it's still going fast enough to oneshot a taxi. Then we'll talk about who's above who. :P

#70 Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen (6360 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: Ahh yes, the lovely 1,000,000,000 to 1 shot :) One of my favorite Bullseye feats.

#71 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruebarryallen: It's a classic, but nothing can match the poodle feat. Except for maybe the corn dog feat.

#72 Edited by TheTrueBarryAllen (6360 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: I'm just going to come out here and say it, as much as I love Lester, the names for his feats are a tad hilarious.

#73 Edited by Wolverine08 (45689 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

@cadencev2:

@thetruebarryallen said:

I wasn't saying that he WAS Lester, I was explaining that they had similar accuracy in terms of using projectiles, they've both got different styles and like Cadence said Hawkeye has his Super Human Sight due to cybernetic implants IIRC.

So just to clear it up, I was only comparing their accuracy, not comparing both of them and calling them the same >.<

Naturally! To say that they're the same character is absurd, and I never even implied that you had done so. Which doesn't mean I find your actual point to be a lot more compelling.

The two characters are not the same, but they both are focused around the same facet of their character: Accuracy with projectiles. And both of them have decent feats, good feats, and downright unreasonable feats, to the point that I am more than willing to call them equals in terms of accuracy. Both are absolute top tier marksmen with any weapon, and were I to differentiate between their skill levels, it would only be due to personal bias. So I am more than happy to admit that Ultimate Hawkeye has Bullseye-level accuracy.

And my point is, Bullseye-level accuracy means basically squat against Daredevil, who cut his teeth dancing around projectiles thrown with exactly Bullseye-level accuracy by the man himself. Daredevil is more than capable of rocking Lester's world, accuracy or not. My point is, having Bullseye-level accuracy alone does not give you the win against Daredevil, in fact it's exactly the opposite. Daredevil has proved, time and again, that he is better than someone with that level of accuracy. That accuracy will have to be backed up by something else, and evidently something more substantial than impressive durability and pretty solid h2h. Since Clint is inferior in close combat, he'll need to be substantially better at something else in order to have a shot at taking even a couple of rounds away from Murdock.

Luckily, Clint is not without advantages, as was so exclamatorily elucidated upon by Cadence. He has, according to our self-professed purveyor of all knowledge Ultimate, three. Superhuman eyesight, handguns, and superhuman speed. Let's break these down a bit, shall we?

#1: Superhuman Eyesight

An intuitive and obviously useful power for a ranged character, this has allowed Hawkeye to accomplish, apparently, three things:

1) Seen thru the Nuclear Blast that blinded everyone else in the City arcs.

Daredevil carries no explosives, and there are no explosives on the battlefield. The only explosions that Hawkeye might be seeing through are ones created by his trick arrows, but he doesn't even have those here. So there is no possibility of an explosion for Hawkeye to see her. A decent feat, I suppose, but not relevant here. For this scenario, this feat shows no advantage over Bullseye.

2) Sees long distance mutiple times in Comics.

Without bothering to try any serious form of measurement, I would estimate this battlefield is somewhere around 200 feet long. Not a long distance, and certainly one that Bullseye could see across. For this scenario, this feat shows no advantage over Bullseye.

3) Sees through one way glass with no probs.

This map is almost entirely devoid of glass, much less the thick one-way stuff. For this scenario, this feat shows no advantage over Bullseye.

So superhuman sight really seems to be of no relevance in this battle. To be fair, it may help him a bit in picking out Daredevil as he moves from cover to cover, but Cadence gave no indication of any feats that would indicate him actually being more adept than normal at such an activity.

#2: Handguns

Hawkeye uses guns, and Bullseye usually doesn't, at least against Daredevil. Seems like a big deal, no?

The issue I have with making this a big deal is that comics in general have never made this a big deal. For a perfect example, look at Red Hood and the Outlaws. Red Hood is an expert with pistols, Arsenal is an expert with a bow. Who's more effective at range? Usually Harper, despite his supposedly inferior weapon. And as for Ultimate Hawkeye himself, his feats with guns are no more impressive than those he has with a bow. I would venture to say they're even less so, to be honest. Hawkeye is on the Avengers, not Punisher. Green Arrow has made a career out of beating gun-toting foes with his bow. Shado, Merlyn, Connor Hawke, even Bullseye and Ultimate Hawkeye have shown that -- in the comic book world we're debating about -- it is just as, if not more, effective to use a bow as it is to use a gun.

And Daredevil himself has spent his career toying with bullets. In his origin miniseries, the very first time he ever fights crime, he deflects a bullet, from close range, straight back into the shooter's head. He's been dancing around and deflecting bullets of all shapes, sizes, and rates of fire for his entire career. Bullets are not a gamechanger for Daredevil any more than they are for Hawkeye. Maybe you disagree, but I don't see handguns as a big deal here.

#3: Superhuman Speed

This is the big one, and it is genuinely a significant advantage in almost every scenario. He shoots arrows and bullets very quickly, and he moves pretty darn quick as well. Bullseye is extremely agile himself, and has bullet-timer reflexes. He's also taken out a room full of gun-wielding soldiers using as assault rifle. Rate of fire with guns isn't something much affected by the user. So, if Hawkeye is using his handguns, his rate of fire advantage seemingly isn't that significant. His agility and mobility is also not something I would put above Bulseye's, who has gone on rooftop chases with Daredevil and Gambit, as well as being a bullet dodger.

So we're down to addressing the rate of fire with the bow and arrow.This, to me, is his major advantage over Bullseye, whereas Bullseye's major edge is richochets. (I can't think of any Ult Clint bounce shots, at least off the top of my head.) But is Rate of Fire enough to get the edge over Daredevil? Personally, I'm inclined to think not. He's dodged multiple assailants with guns many times, he's dodged machine gun fire, he's dodged Bullseye when Lester was using multiple projectiles at a time, even. With as much cover as he's got here, and with radar sense to show him the trajectory of each projectile before it gets there, and with the billy clubs to swat away anything that gets too close for comfort, I don't really see Daredevil having trouble taking this to close combat a large majority of the time. And in h2h, Clint gets steamrolled. Sure, he can spam his handguns up close like he's done in the past, but Daredevil can disarm him or even KO him with a thrown or ricocheted billy club. Clint has no reason to suspect a bounce shot, and that could be a reasonably easy way to win for Daredevil.

Do I believe that Ultimate Hawkeye will get swept here? Of course not. I see him taking 2-4 of 10, probably hovering mostly in the 2.5 to 3 range. I think that with Daredevil's radar sense to track projectiles and map routes through cover, combined with the amount of cover he has, will give Matt a good chance of navigating to Clint's position. And with DD's experience fighting a top-tier marksman, I think he has what it takes to dodge the shots that Hawkeye is able to take at him. Not a bad fight, by any means, but I don't think Clint's advantages over Lester are significant enough to grant him a majority here.

Well said.

#74 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruebarryallen: The juice-box straw feat and the booger feat are both pretty nice too, lol.

#75 Posted by jojjimbo (2463 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil.

#76 Edited by HyperViper97 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

DD dances around bullseyes shots. He isn't that far off from ult hawk. That and Matt can catch arrows and swat bullets. Ult Clint is damn impressive tho, daredevil 6/10

#77 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

@cadencev2:

@thetruebarryallen said:

I wasn't saying that he WAS Lester, I was explaining that they had similar accuracy in terms of using projectiles, they've both got different styles and like Cadence said Hawkeye has his Super Human Sight due to cybernetic implants IIRC.

So just to clear it up, I was only comparing their accuracy, not comparing both of them and calling them the same >.<

Naturally! To say that they're the same character is absurd, and I never even implied that you had done so. Which doesn't mean I find your actual point to be a lot more compelling.

The two characters are not the same, but they both are focused around the same facet of their character: Accuracy with projectiles. And both of them have decent feats, good feats, and downright unreasonable feats, to the point that I am more than willing to call them equals in terms of accuracy. Both are absolute top tier marksmen with any weapon, and were I to differentiate between their skill levels, it would only be due to personal bias. So I am more than happy to admit that Ultimate Hawkeye has Bullseye-level accuracy.

And my point is, Bullseye-level accuracy means basically squat against Daredevil, who cut his teeth dancing around projectiles thrown with exactly Bullseye-level accuracy by the man himself. Daredevil is more than capable of rocking Lester's world, accuracy or not. My point is, having Bullseye-level accuracy alone does not give you the win against Daredevil, in fact it's exactly the opposite. Daredevil has proved, time and again, that he is better than someone with that level of accuracy. That accuracy will have to be backed up by something else, and evidently something more substantial than impressive durability and pretty solid h2h. Since Clint is inferior in close combat, he'll need to be substantially better at something else in order to have a shot at taking even a couple of rounds away from Murdock.

Luckily, Clint is not without advantages, as was so exclamatorily elucidated upon by Cadence. He has, according to our self-professed purveyor of all knowledge Ultimate, three. Superhuman eyesight, handguns, and superhuman speed. Let's break these down a bit, shall we?

#1: Superhuman Eyesight

An intuitive and obviously useful power for a ranged character, this has allowed Hawkeye to accomplish, apparently, three things:

1) Seen thru the Nuclear Blast that blinded everyone else in the City arcs.

Daredevil carries no explosives, and there are no explosives on the battlefield. The only explosions that Hawkeye might be seeing through are ones created by his trick arrows, but he doesn't even have those here. So there is no possibility of an explosion for Hawkeye to see her. A decent feat, I suppose, but not relevant here. For this scenario, this feat shows no advantage over Bullseye.

2) Sees long distance mutiple times in Comics.

Without bothering to try any serious form of measurement, I would estimate this battlefield is somewhere around 200 feet long. Not a long distance, and certainly one that Bullseye could see across. For this scenario, this feat shows no advantage over Bullseye.

3) Sees through one way glass with no probs.

This map is almost entirely devoid of glass, much less the thick one-way stuff. For this scenario, this feat shows no advantage over Bullseye.

So superhuman sight really seems to be of no relevance in this battle. To be fair, it may help him a bit in picking out Daredevil as he moves from cover to cover, but Cadence gave no indication of any feats that would indicate him actually being more adept than normal at such an activity.

#2: Handguns

Hawkeye uses guns, and Bullseye usually doesn't, at least against Daredevil. Seems like a big deal, no?

The issue I have with making this a big deal is that comics in general have never made this a big deal. For a perfect example, look at Red Hood and the Outlaws. Red Hood is an expert with pistols, Arsenal is an expert with a bow. Who's more effective at range? Usually Harper, despite his supposedly inferior weapon. And as for Ultimate Hawkeye himself, his feats with guns are no more impressive than those he has with a bow. I would venture to say they're even less so, to be honest. Hawkeye is on the Avengers, not Punisher. Green Arrow has made a career out of beating gun-toting foes with his bow. Shado, Merlyn, Connor Hawke, even Bullseye and Ultimate Hawkeye have shown that -- in the comic book world we're debating about -- it is just as, if not more, effective to use a bow as it is to use a gun.

And Daredevil himself has spent his career toying with bullets. In his origin miniseries, the very first time he ever fights crime, he deflects a bullet, from close range, straight back into the shooter's head. He's been dancing around and deflecting bullets of all shapes, sizes, and rates of fire for his entire career. Bullets are not a gamechanger for Daredevil any more than they are for Hawkeye. Maybe you disagree, but I don't see handguns as a big deal here.

#3: Superhuman Speed

This is the big one, and it is genuinely a significant advantage in almost every scenario. He shoots arrows and bullets very quickly, and he moves pretty darn quick as well. Bullseye is extremely agile himself, and has bullet-timer reflexes. He's also taken out a room full of gun-wielding soldiers using as assault rifle. Rate of fire with guns isn't something much affected by the user. So, if Hawkeye is using his handguns, his rate of fire advantage seemingly isn't that significant. His agility and mobility is also not something I would put above Bulseye's, who has gone on rooftop chases with Daredevil and Gambit, as well as being a bullet dodger.

So we're down to addressing the rate of fire with the bow and arrow.This, to me, is his major advantage over Bullseye, whereas Bullseye's major edge is richochets. (I can't think of any Ult Clint bounce shots, at least off the top of my head.) But is Rate of Fire enough to get the edge over Daredevil? Personally, I'm inclined to think not. He's dodged multiple assailants with guns many times, he's dodged machine gun fire, he's dodged Bullseye when Lester was using multiple projectiles at a time, even. With as much cover as he's got here, and with radar sense to show him the trajectory of each projectile before it gets there, and with the billy clubs to swat away anything that gets too close for comfort, I don't really see Daredevil having trouble taking this to close combat a large majority of the time. And in h2h, Clint gets steamrolled. Sure, he can spam his handguns up close like he's done in the past, but Daredevil can disarm him or even KO him with a thrown or ricocheted billy club. Clint has no reason to suspect a bounce shot, and that could be a reasonably easy way to win for Daredevil.

Do I believe that Ultimate Hawkeye will get swept here? Of course not. I see him taking 2-4 of 10, probably hovering mostly in the 2.5 to 3 range. I think that with Daredevil's radar sense to track projectiles and map routes through cover, combined with the amount of cover he has, will give Matt a good chance of navigating to Clint's position. And with DD's experience fighting a top-tier marksman, I think he has what it takes to dodge the shots that Hawkeye is able to take at him. Not a bad fight, by any means, but I don't think Clint's advantages over Lester are significant enough to grant him a majority here.

I disagree with some points, however I agree Hawkeye gets wreck without his Trick arrows to factor in.

#78 Edited by xso111 (31 posts) - - Show Bio

The rules heavily favor DD. but if he has trick arrows or atleast some explosive arrows it'll be a 10/10 curbstomp favoring Clint because w/ explosive arrows even if DD dodges it or catches it, it will blow in his face.DD takes this but it will still be a hard battle for him bcoz of clint's super human attributes.

#79 Posted by Wolverine08 (45689 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil.

#80 Edited by GhostRavage (9482 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually think no Hawkeye can beat Daredevil...

#81 Posted by MrxElectrifying (40 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah I'd say DD

#82 Posted by DigitalShooter9 (2035 posts) - - Show Bio

Basically DD fighting a more military style Bullseye. I wanna say Daredevil, but ultimate Hawkeye managed to shoot a moving Spider-Man. Who even though weaker then the original is still faster then Matt. Ultimate Hawkeye 7/10.

I want to point out that Hawkeye only shot spidey by guessing his actions. Same wouldn't apply for daredevil as he has a radar sense to decide on where the arrows will come from.