daredevil vs karnak

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#1  Edited By LordCosmicKing
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vance_astro

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#2  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator

I'm going with Daredevil.Karnak can detect stress points but so can Daredevil and DD's senses are a step above any awareness abilities Karnak has.

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#3  Edited By The_Ghostshell

I dont think DD's ability to detect stress points is the same as Karnak's. I'd have to see evidence of that. I also think Karnak is a far better fighter. DD has trouble reading Lady Bullseye's movements simply because she remains calm. I'm pretty sure Karnak remains calm under pressure as well.

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#4  Edited By Static Shock
Gambler said:
I dont think DD's ability to detect stress points is the same as Karnak's. I'd have to see evidence of ... [more]
He's gonna post the scan of Daredevil bending steel bars at it's weak-points.
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#5  Edited By Dreadmaster

I think Karnak could pull a win, Karnak has shown some great speed and agility and easliy on par if not better than Daredevil, but what would really play a factor is if Karnak can sense weakness in Daredevil from the getgo or while fighting because i don't know what fighting skills Karnak has but he would need to figure out Daredevil's hearing and radar sense's as weaknesses and then capitalize. But it all depends if he finds his weaknesses

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#6  Edited By LordCosmicKing

no he will show a scan of finding the weak point in a diamond, either way it will proof that DD can do it.

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#7  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
Gambler said:
I dont think DD's ability to detect stress points is the same as Karnak's. I'd have to see evidence of ... [more]
1.The Lady Bullseye thing is bad writing.Being calm doesn't keep DD from seeing you.Even if your heart stops he can still tell someone is present.
2.I don't believe Karnak is a better fighter..I'd have to see evidence of that.
3.I'll look through my "Daredevil folder" and bring you back some scans of his stress point detection.
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#8  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
Static Shock said:
Gambler said: I dont think DD's ability to detect stress points is the same as Karnak's. I'd have to see ... [more]
No i'm not.
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#9  Edited By The_Ghostshell
Vance Astro said:
Gambler said: I dont think DD's ability to detect stress points is the same as Karnak's. I'd have to see ... [more]
1. Its not written that he can't see her. He cant predict her movements. Everything isn't bad writing.
2. I'll get some scans
3. Cool :)



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#10  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
Gambler said:
Vance Astro said: Gambler said: I dont think DD's ability to detect stress points is the same as Karnak's. I'd ... [more]
If being calm could keep DD from predicting what you would do...the hand would have killed him by now.
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@LordCosmicKing:
vs Absorbing Man in diamond form, if the scan don't get here first I'll give you issue # as soon as I find it.
As for the battle, I've seen Karnak but not enough to rate his fighting ability.  Finding weak points and fighting are totally different feats.
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#12  Edited By LordCosmicKing

i like DD more so i pick him plus his billy clubs give him reach advantage and allows him to strike harder and can really see DD using them for pressure point attacks like vance has said DD uses them a "lot" and i dont see karnak being able to resist them strikes.

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#13  Edited By GhostPool

Cant say Karnak van detect stress points easily yet DD has better fighting skills so i dont know what to say

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#14  Edited By Static Shock
Vance Astro said:
Static Shock said: Gambler said: I dont think DD's ability to detect stress points is the same as Karnak's. I'd ... [more]
LOL.
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Heres the issue of DD vs Absorbing Man....
Oh, and DD for the win as he's gone against MA's before and came out on top, and I don't think Karnaks ability to sense weak points will be a factor.

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#16  Edited By LordCosmicKing
Vance Astro said:
Gambler said: Vance Astro said: Gambler said: I dont think DD's ability to detect stress points is the same as ... [more]
they should have killed him already but what are you  gonna do he is the hero, besides DD also relies on his martial training not just his ability to predict the likely attack via his senses. dont sell him short on his fighting skills.
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#17  Edited By The_Ghostshell
fast enough to hit the Vision while hes intangible
fast enough to hit the Vision while hes intangible
Karnak's ability is described as Devastating. So even if DD has a similar ability its never been shown as devastating.
Karnak's ability is described as Devastating. So even if DD has a similar ability its never been shown as devastating.

Shatters a reef with one shot
Shatters a reef with one shot




















There are several more scans but I don't feel I need em. If he's fast enough to hit Vision while the Vision is intangible then he's easily fast enough to hit DD. Since he can instantly spot the weakness in any object DD's ears would be his first target. But its all a moot point seeing as how one shot would realistically kill Daredevil.








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#18  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
Gambler said:
fast enough to hit the Vision while hes intangibleKarnak's ability is described as Devastating. So even if DD has a ... [more]
Well DD has taken shots from people stronger than Karnak so I guess realism is thrown out the window.
Now,I don't believe Karnak isn't fast enough to tag DD,what I don't believe is Karnak is skilled enough to dodge DD's knockout move.
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#19  Edited By The_Ghostshell
Vance Astro said:
Gambler said: fast enough to hit the Vision while hes intangibleKarnak's ability is described as Devastating. So even if DD ... [more]
Well going off that basis Karnak has dodged people faster then DD so I guess we're at an impasse ;)
(DD's also been hit by characters on or below Karnk's speed)
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#20  Edited By LordCosmicKing

two strikes to the temple with his billy clubs should ko karnak just as likely as karnak can ko him with one hit.

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#21  Edited By The_Ghostshell

Hahaha dodging punches from Blob is not the same as dodging punches from Karnak. Thats like me saying, "If he can speed blitz several Kree warriors he could speed blitz DD"

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#22  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
Gambler said:
Vance Astro said: Gambler said: fast enough to hit the Vision while hes intangibleKarnak's ability is described as Devastating. So ... [more]
I never said Karnak wasn't fast enough to dodge DD..I said not skilled enough.
I know DD has been hit by people below Karnak's speed..I didn't object.
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#23  Edited By The_Ghostshell
Vance Astro said:
Gambler said: Vance Astro said: Gambler said: fast enough to hit the Vision while hes intangibleKarnak's ability is described as ... [more]
Why wouldn't he be skilled enough? I'm lost. Is he some jobber with no martial arts training? He's deflected balls traveling at the speed of Quicksilver. So for the sake of argument even if for whatever reason he isn't skilled enough to dodge DD his speed would more then make up for it.
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#24  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
Gambler said:
Hahaha dodging punches from Blob is not the same as dodging punches from Karnak. Thats like me saying, "If he ... [more]
Speed blitzing Kree Warriors is as weak a feat as DD dodging the Blob.You are aware that only Captain Marvel's and Kree Sentry's have super speed,right? Most Kree have regular human stats.
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#25  Edited By LordCosmicKing
Gambler said:
Hahaha dodging punches from Blob is not the same as dodging punches from Karnak. Thats like me saying, "If he ... [more]
 i was showin DD's ability to use billy clubs for nerve attacks not his speed but i guess if karnak is slow enough to get kneed by BP and DD is fast enough to hit wolvie while facin each other i give the fast strike attack to DD.  :)
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#26  Edited By The_Ghostshell
Vance Astro said:
Gambler said: Hahaha dodging punches from Blob is not the same as dodging punches from Karnak. Thats like me saying, ... [more]
I know its AS weak. That's why I posted it. Re-Read the post, maybe it'll make more sense?
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#27  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
Gambler said:
Vance Astro said: Gambler said: Vance Astro said: Gambler said: fast enough to hit the Vision while hes intangibleKarnak's ability ... [more]
1.Never said he was a jobber or that he had no Martial arts training,i'm saying he's not prepared for what DD has to offer.Better fighters than him had to be aware of his abilities before they could beat him.Captain America is a perfect example.
2.Ok...he deflected balls at what  Mach 1? Ok.Speed is not what i'm going after.I know Karnak is fast.
3.If Karnak was as fast as you think he is he wouldn't take so many L's.
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#28  Edited By the creator

@Vance Astro said:

"
Gambler said:
I dont think DD's ability to detect stress points is the same as Karnak's. I'd have to see evidence of ... [more]
1.The Lady Bullseye thing is bad writing.Being calm doesn't keep DD from seeing you.Even if your heart stops he can still tell someone is present.
2.I don't believe Karnak is a better fighter..I'd have to see evidence of that.
3.I'll look through my "Daredevil folder" and bring you back some scans of his stress point detection.
"

DD's hearing enables him to hear his oppoenents heartbeat.
Usually when someone is going to attack or about to luanch a move, their heartbeat might increase due to the body's involuntary reaction. DD hears this and it gives him a fraction of a second head start.
As Karnak has voluntary control over most of his body's autonomic functions: breathing, heartbeat, bleeding, reaction to pain, rate of healing, etc, he can alunch an attack without giving away this early warning.
Karnak is stronger (1 tonne) and his reaction time, endurance, and speed are all slightly greater than the human race's most perfect physical specimen, Captain America.

The striking atreas of his body have all been hardened and his hands in particular, which have been shown to be capable of shattering wood, cinderblock, and even mild steel.
Comine this with his weakness senses and martial skills and he can win.

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#29  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
Gambler said:
Vance Astro said: Gambler said: Hahaha dodging punches from Blob is not the same as dodging punches from Karnak. Thats ... [more]
You know I can't read G. :(
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#30  Edited By The_Ghostshell
Vance Astro said:
Gambler said: Vance Astro said: Gambler said: Hahaha dodging punches from Blob is not the same as dodging punches from ... [more]
LOL yeah but I keep hoping

@ thecreator: Good looking out. Not much more to say after that :)




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#31  Edited By Dreadmaster
Gambler said:
Vance Astro said: Gambler said: Vance Astro said: Gambler said: Hahaha dodging punches from Blob is not the same as ... [more]

You didn't have to say anything at all. lol
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#32  Edited By LordCosmicKing

if DD can throw down and beat spidey, i dont see why he shouldnt be able to handle karnak who is much slower then what DD has handled against spidey.

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#33  Edited By The_Ghostshell

Character A beat Character B is never a good strategy for debate. Spiderman beat Firelord so by your account he should have never lost to Daredevil to begin with. Who beat who in comics usually has seldom to do with who's the better, or more skilled fighter. Dont get me wrong, you can use certain cases to strengthen your point. But it shouldn't be your whole case.

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#34  Edited By LordCosmicKing
Gambler said:
Character A beat Character B is never a good strategy for debate. Spiderman beat Firelord so by your account he ... [more]
its not my whole case i am simply eliminating the whole karnak speed defense. when DD has shown the ability to dodge and counter with ppl far faster then karnak.
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#35  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
the creator said:
@Vance Astro said: " Gambler said: I dont think DD's ability to detect stress points is the same as Karnak's. ... [more]
Daredevil has more than one way to know if someone is attacking.When people get ready to punch their muscles tighten.Believe it or not,that makes a sound and Daredevil can hear it.
Daredevil doesn't need someone to have a heartbeat to detect their attacks.Here's a perfect example.In one of DD's annuals he fought a being called Lifeform..Lifeform has no vitals,nothing that would let DD know there is even still a human present in Lifeform.Yet he could detect everything he was going.

I know Karnak is stronger than DD.I never desputed that but as far as breaking wood,cinderblocks,steel etc.DD has done all of it.
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#36  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
Gambler said:
Character A beat Character B is never a good strategy for debate. Spiderman beat Firelord so by your account he ... [more]
Spider-Man beat Firelord once in a Symbiote Costume.Daredevil beat Spider-Man twice in two different costumes and does well against him in every fight.Even when Spider-Man was in his right mind,not brain-washed,not mind controlled,not emotionally disturbed by the symbiotes manipulation,Daredevil still held is own,no problem.
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#37  Edited By LordCosmicKing
Vance Astro said:
the creator said: @Vance Astro said: " Gambler said: I dont think DD's ability to detect stress points is the ... [more]
also remember wood dont hit back creator. :) a lesson that karnak should have already learned.
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#38  Edited By Final Arrow
Vance Astro said:
Gambler said: Character A beat Character B is never a good strategy for debate. Spiderman beat Firelord so by your ... [more]

Yeah but DD handing spiderman his ass is not something super impressive. Lets remember Spidermans experiance is not overly high (depending on who and what Spidermans you have DD up against) Karnak has actaually a high level experiance. I actaully think that you could use DD fighting Spiderman for the speed arugment and fighting someone with superior strength but nothing more.
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#39  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
Final Arrow said:
Vance Astro said: Gambler said: Character A beat Character B is never a good strategy for debate. Spiderman beat Firelord ... [more]
Experience has nothing to do with why Spider-Man lost to DD and nobody is saying it's a fighting skill feat but more a display of how DD fairs against someone with physical ability above his own.
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#40  Edited By The_Ghostshell
LordCosmicKing said:
Gambler said: Character A beat Character B is never a good strategy for debate. Spiderman beat Firelord so by your ... [more]
Gotcha. But Karnak has been shown to dodge people faster then DD. He's been shown to take hits from characters stronger then DD. The problem is Karnak isn't an A-Lister. He's a C-Lister at best. That's why you have him getting ownd by BP (in BP's own book mind you). Not to mention the fact that their fight and this fight are two different scenarios. Karnak isnt starting out in this fight bragging about what he can do. He's not going to be taken by surprise. Nobody's shown me any proof that DD is overwhelmingly more skilled the Karnak, or that he's faced anyone like him before. Sure DD's taken punches from stronger opponents. But those opponents didnt have Karnaks ability or knowledge of where to strike to inflict the most damage.







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#41  Edited By The_Ghostshell
Vance Astro said:
Gambler said: Character A beat Character B is never a good strategy for debate. Spiderman beat Firelord so by your ... [more]
Points to Arrow's post
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#42  Edited By the creator
Vance Astro said:
the creator said: @Vance Astro said: " Gambler said: I dont think DD's ability to detect stress points is the ... [more]
I'm not saying DD could not use other senses in this combat, I'm explaining why the writer possibly made it that way in that particular fight.
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#43  Edited By Final Arrow
Vance Astro said:
Final Arrow said: Vance Astro said: Gambler said: Character A beat Character B is never a good strategy for debate. ... [more]

Experience is a factor and you cant say it is not. Experiance is one of DD biggest assest and one of Spidermans weakest. if you think spiderman had the same level of experiance in fighting and combat as Matt has had would you say it would be easier to beat him? You need to factor this in. It could also strength your argument against Karnak.
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#44  Edited By LordCosmicKing
Final Arrow said:
Vance Astro said: Final Arrow said: Vance Astro said: Gambler said: Character A beat Character B is never a good ... [more]
spidey's spidey sense agility speed, strength and webbing plus the limited experience he does have has allowed him to compete and on occasion beat certain lvl 7 martial art masters with similar enhancements as karnak or spidey. so the fact that DD has beat him says something about DD's feat what has karnak done who has he fought?
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#45  Edited By The_Ghostshell

Im bored :(
Im bored :(

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#46  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
Gambler said:
LordCosmicKing said: Gambler said: Character A beat Character B is never a good strategy for debate. Spiderman beat Firelord so ... [more]
Gambler,it's the same on both sides.Daredevil has been shown to dodge people faster than Karnak as well.He has also been shown to take hits from people stronger than Karnak.Karnak got owned by BP more than once.Daredevil has been shown to get the drop on people,with speed levels above his own in combat.I have seen the opposite for Karnak against actual good fighters.Someone who is fast enough to just dodge DD easily doesn't get one-shotted because their bragging.If you can't talk and dodge at the same time..he is really less skilled than I thought.

Daredevil isn't overwhelmingly more skilled than Karnak but he's good enough to win.I don't think that a Class 100 having Karnak's level of skill would make much difference when you get hit by them.DD has been hit by 4 of them and lived.
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#47  Edited By Kurrent
@Gambler: Dude I've seen an older comic where DD is fighting Sabretooth and tearing him apart.....Tooth runs away and DD chases his ass and beats him down again
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#48  Edited By Static Shock
Gambler said:
Im bored :(
LMFAO!
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#49  Edited By LordCosmicKing

me too
me too

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#50  Edited By Final Arrow
LordCosmicKing said:
Final Arrow said: Vance Astro said: Final Arrow said: Vance Astro said: Gambler said: Character A beat Character B is ... [more]
Thats the writers not the battles, I mean Black widow and Elktra two no powered characters have both beat spiderman. I can name a few more if that helps, But you have to remember battles are talking about if it was based on powers, skill and fighting experiance not what has been done in the past. I mean one moment Spiderman is facing of against the Thanos and wins and the next he gets beat by Kitty Pryde (just ott examples) this means nothing in actually battle threads. As Gambler said saying A beat B means nothing, your looking at facts not what people have written, but we should only use the past examples to strength your points on the fighting style.