" @Goldfinch: In Blood on the Streets Cap defeated Daredevil without the super soldier serum enhancing him. Daredevil was not drugged and Cap was weaker than usual. "
DD was far below his top form as well and was holding back a lot.
Pluse Daredevil cant dodge a bullet in my opinion he is peak human. He uses the radar to sense a gun is being aimed at him then he starts to move.
First, peak humans, DODGE bullets. Second, DD has already deflected bullets after they were fired
"
Epic. i honestly dont understand why people just give guys like cap and at times cass cain the advantage in physical stats? that's a really good showing . where's it from may i ask? "
I'm not sure where is that from. I don't have any issues with DD wearing that cool armor. Btw, cap and cass are indeed stronger and moves faster than DD. In these categories including stamina, they are superior to DD. in reaction time, i would put them equal, but DD is the better dodger due to radar. =]
" @Goldfinch: In Blood on the Streets Cap defeated Daredevil without the super soldier serum enhancing him. Daredevil was not drugged and Cap was weaker than usual. "
Well, actually cap has his SSS at the time. I thin 2 issues after that he had his SSS be taken. =]
" @Goldfinch: In Blood on the Streets Cap defeated Daredevil without the super soldier serum enhancing him. Daredevil was not drugged and Cap was weaker than usual. "
Cap didn't defeat Daredevil in Streets of Poison.Daredevil faked being unconscious so he didn't have to fight Cap anymore.When Cap said stay down he thought he KO'd DD,DD just laid there and closed his eyes.
Pluse Daredevil cant dodge a bullet in my opinion he is peak human. He uses the radar to sense a gun is being aimed at him then he starts to move.
First, peak humans, DODGE bullets. Second, DD has already deflected bullets after they were fired
"
Epic. i honestly dont understand why people just give guys like cap and at times cass cain the advantage in physical stats? that's a really good showing . where's it from may i ask? "
I'm not sure where is that from. I don't have any issues with DD wearing that cool armor. Btw, cap and cass are indeed stronger and moves faster than DD. In these categories including stamina, they are superior to DD. in reaction time, i would put them equal, but DD is the better dodger due to radar. =] "
Stronger, slightly, but I don't think they are faster.
Not much of a fight. Captain America has fought and won against much tougher people like Iron Man. I don't recall Daredevil coming close in that league.
i don't see Daredevil winning the large majority but people shouldn't under sell him either.
i dont believe Daredevil is Captain America's equal but he is skilled enough and has his radar sense to help him tag Cap avoid the shield tosses and possibly even catch it.
Daredevil will fight and be similar to how Nightwing has held up against Deathstroke. He isnt going to win but he isn't going down without a fight either.
if there was a ratio percentage i say DD can get at least 3 solid wins out of 10 against Cap.
"i don't see Daredevil winning the large majority but people shouldn't under sell him either. i dont believe Daredevil is Captain America's equal but he is skilled enough and has his radar sense to help him tag Cap avoid the shield tosses and possibly even catch it. Daredevil will fight and be similar to how Nightwing has held up against Deathstroke. He isnt going to win but he isn't going down without a fight either. if there was a ratio percentage i say DD can get at least 3 solid wins out of 10 against Cap. "
Pluse Daredevil cant dodge a bullet in my opinion he is peak human. He uses the radar to sense a gun is being aimed at him then he starts to move.
First, peak humans, DODGE bullets. Second, DD has already deflected bullets after they were fired
"
Epic. i honestly dont understand why people just give guys like cap and at times cass cain the advantage in physical stats? that's a really good showing . where's it from may i ask? "
I'm not sure where is that from. I don't have any issues with DD wearing that cool armor. Btw, cap and cass are indeed stronger and moves faster than DD. In these categories including stamina, they are superior to DD. in reaction time, i would put them equal, but DD is the better dodger due to radar. =] "
Stronger, slightly, but I don't think they are faster. "
He moves faster, not react faster. That was my point. =]
"i don't see Daredevil winning the large majority but people shouldn't under sell him either. i dont believe Daredevil is Captain America's equal but he is skilled enough and has his radar sense to help him tag Cap avoid the shield tosses and possibly even catch it. Daredevil will fight and be similar to how Nightwing has held up against Deathstroke. He isnt going to win but he isn't going down without a fight either. if there was a ratio percentage i say DD can get at least 3 solid wins out of 10 against Cap. "
good explanation "
Yea but 3 \10 isn't a good ratio or accurate I believe.
"Not much of a fight. Captain America has fought and won against much tougher people like Iron Man. I don't recall Daredevil coming close in that league. "
HAHAHAHA,he's still a streetleveler , if guys like ironman really wanted to kill him they would do so in a second or less. why not make/bump an ironman vs cap thread to see how badly he gets curbed. @riri4life said:
"Cap owns this blind basturd. Knocks him out w/ one toss of his shield. "
" @Vance Astro: what ratio do you think DD could win? "
5/10 "
4.5/10in my opinion. "
I would give a 4 actually. Cap's skill level combined with superior physical stats and a shield is something that gives him beg advantage. Cap more than once has hit Matt with a shield dash. In a good written fight, this would greatly slow down DD so cap could get the edge. In h2h i would agree with you or vance. =]
" @Vance Astro: what ratio do you think DD could win? "
5/10 "
Hi, Vance, I wanted to ask you something, going by all the showings both Cap and DD had in their own comic books and appearances, who do you think would win if Cap was shown to far more durable and incredibly stronger than DD-yes, based on their fights I'd say they never had a fair fight to the end, but if neither is holding back and the fight is to the death, 2 men enter, 1 man leaves-who do you think would win? I just don't see DD win unless he uses his nerve strikes, DD won't be able to land a nerve strike on cap. Nerve strikes are not like punches. You have to be very specific with these kinds of attacks. And someone with cap's reaction time and a defense like shield, would make it extremely hard for DD to land a pressure point. It's interesting why most of the people would always say Cap beats DD in a fight to the finish/fight to the death.. So, what do you think? http://www.comicboards.com/php/show.php?msg=comicbattles-2011011118194070&layout=thread
Hi, Vance, I wanted to ask you something, going by all the showings both Cap and DD had in their own comic books and appearances, who do you think would win if Cap was shown to far more durable and incredibly stronger than DD-yes, based on their fights I'd say they never had a fair fight to the end, but if neither is holding back and the fight is to the death, 2 men enter, 1 man leaves-who do you think would win? I just don't see DD win unless he uses his nerve strikes, DD won't be able to land a nerve strike on cap. Nerve strikes are not like punches. You have to be very specific with these kinds of attacks. And someone with cap's reaction time and a defense like shield, would make it extremely hard for DD to land a pressure point. It's interesting why most of the people would always say Cap beats DD in a fight to the finish/fight to the death.. So, what do you think? http://www.comicboards.com/php/show.php?msg=comicbattles-2011011118194070&layout=thread "
Whether they've ever had a fair fight isn't why they've gone like they have.They've gone like that because all of their fights are poorly written.The outcomes of all of them should have been different based on the nature of them.If the fight is to the death I'm not sure who will kill who.Maybe Cap because of his speed.I don't know.They both have quick kill techniques.A valid argument could be made for either.
" @Vance Astro: what ratio do you think DD could win? "
5/10 "
I thought you believed that cap would get the majority.... "
I undersold Daredevil. "
I would agree with you about the outcome if it was not for the shield. =] "
I'm not sure why do you think Cap would stalemate DD 5/10 without his shield. If it's fight to the death and both Cap and DD give each other everything they have plus outsmarting each other, Cap should win, using all of their abilities and fighting skills to the maximum levels-only in this occasions I can see Cap showing his superior fighting skills and peak human abilities. Otherwise I can't see Cap winning this. What do you think?
I'm not sure why do you think Cap would stalemate DD 5/10 without his shield. If it's fight to the death and both Cap and DD give each other everything they have plus outsmarting each other, Cap should win, using all of their abilities and fighting skills to the maximum levels-only in this occasions I can see Cap showing his superior fighting skills and peak human abilities. Otherwise I can't see Cap winning this. What do you think? "
Cap does have really good defense with his shield.I don't know if it makes much of a difference against DD though..He's not a brawler he's a tactician.He picks his spots.He doesn't even have to strike.He can grapple.DD is an excellent wrestler despite not having much training in the area.He has some pretty good wrestling showings in DD #1.
" @Vance Astro: what ratio do you think DD could win? "
5/10 "
I thought you believed that cap would get the majority.... "
I undersold Daredevil. "
I would agree with you about the outcome if it was not for the shield. =] "
I'm not sure why do you think Cap would stalemate DD 5/10 without his shield. If it's fight to the death and both Cap and DD give each other everything they have plus outsmarting each other, Cap should win, using all of their abilities and fighting skills to the maximum levels-only in this occasions I can see Cap showing his superior fighting skills and peak human abilities. Otherwise I can't see Cap winning this. What do you think? "
Well, i don't think any more that cap is more skilled than DD, unless what i have heard is true, And i have heard that cap has mastered all the styles of the earth. That should give him the skill advantage, if it's actually true. If it's not, i think DD's radar would allow him to held his own against cap's physical superiority which that should make it a stalemate IMO. =]
I'm not sure why do you think Cap would stalemate DD 5/10 without his shield. If it's fight to the death and both Cap and DD give each other everything they have plus outsmarting each other, Cap should win, using all of their abilities and fighting skills to the maximum levels-only in this occasions I can see Cap showing his superior fighting skills and peak human abilities. Otherwise I can't see Cap winning this. What do you think? "
Cap does have really good defense with his shield.I don't know if it makes much of a difference against DD though..He's not a brawler he's a tactician.He picks his spots.He doesn't even have to strike.He can grapple.DD is an excellent wrestler despite not having much training in the area.He has some pretty good wrestling showings in DD #1. "
I'll simply stop because to be honest I can't say anything until it is written their fight to the death, so far what I've seen in all of their fight, it would end 5/10, this is the most objective look at their fights, but since both Cap and DD are one of my favorite street-levelers, sometimes I'd say Cap wins, and sometimes I'll say DD wins, it depends... Cheers.
I'm not sure why do you think Cap would stalemate DD 5/10 without his shield. If it's fight to the death and both Cap and DD give each other everything they have plus outsmarting each other, Cap should win, using all of their abilities and fighting skills to the maximum levels-only in this occasions I can see Cap showing his superior fighting skills and peak human abilities. Otherwise I can't see Cap winning this. What do you think? "
Cap does have really good defense with his shield.I don't know if it makes much of a difference against DD though..He's not a brawler he's a tactician.He picks his spots.He doesn't even have to strike.He can grapple.DD is an excellent wrestler despite not having much training in the area.He has some pretty good wrestling showings in DD #1. "
Daredevil, in the end, is a human, Cap is a peak human. A world class athlete to be sure, but a human nonetheless. He has limits to his stamina, even if he doesn't often hit them. Cap, on the other hand, is a completely different story. I think a lot of people erroneously believe that the serum turns Cap into a peak human, making him a peer of daredevil and batman. It does not. It maxes out all of Cap's stats to the peak of human capability. He's as strong as any un-enhanced human can ever become, as faste, as agile, with as much endurance. But these attributes are impossible to attain just by training because a normal human, like Batman or DD, would have to make tradeoffs in some abilities to gain others. To be faster, you have to tn down the bulk. To be stronger, you have to give up some speed. Cap doesnt have to do that; he can literally win every event in the olympics, probably back to back. So while the serum maxes his stats to peak human, make no mistake, these peak attributes work together to make him a superhuman.
Thats the edge Cap has against daredevil. In a fight to the finish (which could take hours, even days), where both fighters fight of their own free will without holding back, a la contest of champions, Cap's superior overall stats, particularly his stamina, should win him the day more often than not. Daredevil would have to have a huge skill edge to compensate, and he doesnt.
Saying they are almost equal in strength? It's not even close. If I want I can grab all sorts of examples....when has DD held back by pure muscle strength a missle launch or curled weights DD can barely lift at all?
Cap physically in every sense ='s or is better then DD...DD is olympic level in many areas...Cap is physical human peak in EVERY area...which really makes him low end super human. In the end, it would be like watching a 50 round boxing match between a middleweight and a heavyweight where the heavyweight is just as fresh in round 50 as he is in round 1. The middleweight would eventually wear out or slow down just enough for that big shot to land. This was copied from another poster I found on other boards, what do you think?
Actually captain america is enhanced human. A level which is above the peak human. He stats are above the human limit. But DD is a low level peak human so the difference is not by large margin.
Btw, it seems that i have overestimated cap a bit. He is not as skilled as i used to believe that he is. Maybe it's the shield and physical stats combined with his skills that allow him to hold his own in battles. Skills aloe would never allow him to accomplish what he did. So i'll just assume that he barely beats DD, even when he has the shield. =]
" Actually captain america is enhanced human. A level which is above the peak human. He stats are above the human limit. But DD is a low level peak human so the difference is not by large margin. Btw, it seems that i have overestimated cap a bit. He is not as skilled as i used to believe that he is. Maybe it's the shield and physical stats combined with his skills that allow him to hold his own in battles. Skills aloe would never allow him to accomplish what he did. So i'll just assume that he barely beats DD, even when he has the shield. =] "
I have to say this: Captain America is the best martial artist in Marvel.decided by Marvel, it's unwritten rule. Batman has taken out super-soldiers an he fought to a standstill against Karate Kid. In order to beat Batman, DD has to show he can beat Captain America, but to be honest Cap beats DD in every category: DD is smart, but so is Cap, and Cap is far and away the better battlefield tactician... even you must see that. DD may be able to draw Cap into a dark place, but Cap won't just fold like some amature. He's fought entire platoons of Nazis, aliens, Villains of every level, and is usually the last man standing. Nothing you've listed here is beyond Cap's ability either. He uses nerve strikes, kicks, acrobatic mobility, boxing and other martial arts. The general consensus at Marvel is that Cap is the better hand to hand combatant. He's fast and mobile at a level DD can't match on his best day. Some environments may give DD an advantage, but not enough of one to pull a win against Cap, sorry. For you answer: It will never be a clear cut answer like you want it to be. At Marvel, they will always leave such things ambiguous. Marvel has already established pecking order, but anyone can pull a win under certain circumstances. Cheers.
" Actually captain america is enhanced human. A level which is above the peak human. He stats are above the human limit. But DD is a low level peak human so the difference is not by large margin. Btw, it seems that i have overestimated cap a bit. He is not as skilled as i used to believe that he is. Maybe it's the shield and physical stats combined with his skills that allow him to hold his own in battles. Skills aloe would never allow him to accomplish what he did. So i'll just assume that he barely beats DD, even when he has the shield. =] "
I have to say this: Captain America is the best martial artist in Marvel.decided by Marvel, it's unwritten rule. Batman has taken out super-soldiers an he fought to a standstill against Karate Kid. In order to beat Batman, DD has to show he can beat Captain America, but to be honest Cap beats DD in every category: DD is smart, but so is Cap, and Cap is far and away the better battlefield tactician... even you must see that. DD may be able to draw Cap into a dark place, but Cap won't just fold like some amature. He's fought entire platoons of Nazis, aliens, Villains of every level, and is usually the last man standing. Nothing you've listed here is beyond Cap's ability either. He uses nerve strikes, kicks, acrobatic mobility, boxing and other martial arts. The general consensus at Marvel is that Cap is the better hand to hand combatant. He's fast and mobile at a level DD can't match on his best day. Some environments may give DD an advantage, but not enough of one to pull a win against Cap, sorry. For you answer: It will never be a clear cut answer like you want it to be. At Marvel, they will always leave such things ambiguous. Marvel has already established pecking order, but anyone can pull a win under certain circumstances. Cheers. "
Everyone, please. IGNORE THIS POST. Marvel hasn't decided anything - what that guy is saying is a seriously lazy and dishonest method of debating.
@Goldfinch: The ad hominems are entirely unneccessary. While I agree that it's untrue to claim that Marvel has in any way officially "decided" upon a pecking order, that does not mean that the writers at Marvel don't seem to give cap more credit as a warrior than DD. I agree that his methods of making his point are invalid, but the point itself is very possibly true. Cap's entire shtick throughout the Silver age seems to have been, "Martial arts and skill outclass numbers and strength." Cap has training, skill, and strength ahead of DD; He demonstrates the highest level of expertise both in tactics and martial arts repeatedly, and his strength feats easily outclass those of DD. Even his speed feats outclass DD. Throw in the sheild, (although Cap might not want to "throw" anything at DD,) and he has this fight down.
" Actually captain america is enhanced human. A level which is above the peak human. He stats are above the human limit. But DD is a low level peak human so the difference is not by large margin. Btw, it seems that i have overestimated cap a bit. He is not as skilled as i used to believe that he is. Maybe it's the shield and physical stats combined with his skills that allow him to hold his own in battles. Skills aloe would never allow him to accomplish what he did. So i'll just assume that he barely beats DD, even when he has the shield. =] "
I have to say this: Captain America is the best martial artist in Marvel.decided by Marvel, it's unwritten rule. Batman has taken out super-soldiers an he fought to a standstill against Karate Kid. In order to beat Batman, DD has to show he can beat Captain America, but to be honest Cap beats DD in every category: DD is smart, but so is Cap, and Cap is far and away the better battlefield tactician... even you must see that. DD may be able to draw Cap into a dark place, but Cap won't just fold like some amature. He's fought entire platoons of Nazis, aliens, Villains of every level, and is usually the last man standing. Nothing you've listed here is beyond Cap's ability either. He uses nerve strikes, kicks, acrobatic mobility, boxing and other martial arts. The general consensus at Marvel is that Cap is the better hand to hand combatant. He's fast and mobile at a level DD can't match on his best day. Some environments may give DD an advantage, but not enough of one to pull a win against Cap, sorry. For you answer: It will never be a clear cut answer like you want it to be. At Marvel, they will always leave such things ambiguous. Marvel has already established pecking order, but anyone can pull a win under certain circumstances. Cheers. "
First, since when cap is the best martial artist. That's very wrong. Second, i have already said that cap wins so i don't see what you are debating. Third, you are confusing. At first you said that that match would be 5/10 and that cap is no more skilled than DD. And now you are saying that cap wins and that he is the best h2h fighter...0_0
@Goldfinch said:
" @Goldfinch said:
" @spidey 15 said:
" Actually captain america is enhanced human. A level which is above the peak human. He stats are above the human limit. But DD is a low level peak human so the difference is not by large margin. Btw, it seems that i have overestimated cap a bit. He is not as skilled as i used to believe that he is. Maybe it's the shield and physical stats combined with his skills that allow him to hold his own in battles. Skills aloe would never allow him to accomplish what he did. So i'll just assume that he barely beats DD, even when he has the shield. =] "
I have to say this: Captain America is the best martial artist in Marvel.decided by Marvel, it's unwritten rule. Batman has taken out super-soldiers an he fought to a standstill against Karate Kid. In order to beat Batman, DD has to show he can beat Captain America, but to be honest Cap beats DD in every category: DD is smart, but so is Cap, and Cap is far and away the better battlefield tactician... even you must see that. DD may be able to draw Cap into a dark place, but Cap won't just fold like some amature. He's fought entire platoons of Nazis, aliens, Villains of every level, and is usually the last man standing. Nothing you've listed here is beyond Cap's ability either. He uses nerve strikes, kicks, acrobatic mobility, boxing and other martial arts. The general consensus at Marvel is that Cap is the better hand to hand combatant. He's fast and mobile at a level DD can't match on his best day. Some environments may give DD an advantage, but not enough of one to pull a win against Cap, sorry. For you answer: It will never be a clear cut answer like you want it to be. At Marvel, they will always leave such things ambiguous. Marvel has already established pecking order, but anyone can pull a win under certain circumstances. Cheers. "
Everyone, please. IGNORE THIS POST. Marvel hasn't decided anything - what that guy is saying is a seriously lazy and dishonest method of debating. "
@Mackeja: I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Like I said right in the beginning - this is such a close fight that there really isn't any meaningful answer. It doesn't matter what Cap has shown, if he can't overcome DD in their fights. It's obvious this fight is too close to decide.
" Actually captain america is enhanced human. A level which is above the peak human. He stats are above the human limit. But DD is a low level peak human so the difference is not by large margin. Btw, it seems that i have overestimated cap a bit. He is not as skilled as i used to believe that he is. Maybe it's the shield and physical stats combined with his skills that allow him to hold his own in battles. Skills aloe would never allow him to accomplish what he did. So i'll just assume that he barely beats DD, even when he has the shield. =] "
I have to say this: Captain America is the best martial artist in Marvel.decided by Marvel, it's unwritten rule. Batman has taken out super-soldiers an he fought to a standstill against Karate Kid. In order to beat Batman, DD has to show he can beat Captain America, but to be honest Cap beats DD in every category: DD is smart, but so is Cap, and Cap is far and away the better battlefield tactician... even you must see that. DD may be able to draw Cap into a dark place, but Cap won't just fold like some amature. He's fought entire platoons of Nazis, aliens, Villains of every level, and is usually the last man standing. Nothing you've listed here is beyond Cap's ability either. He uses nerve strikes, kicks, acrobatic mobility, boxing and other martial arts. The general consensus at Marvel is that Cap is the better hand to hand combatant. He's fast and mobile at a level DD can't match on his best day. Some environments may give DD an advantage, but not enough of one to pull a win against Cap, sorry. For you answer: It will never be a clear cut answer like you want it to be. At Marvel, they will always leave such things ambiguous. Marvel has already established pecking order, but anyone can pull a win under certain circumstances. Cheers. "
First, since when cap is the best martial artist. That's very wrong. Second, i have already said that cap wins so i don't see what you are debating. Third, you are confusing. At first you said that that match would be 5/10 and that cap is no more skilled than DD. And now you are saying that cap wins and that he is the best h2h fighter...0_0
@Goldfinch said:
" @Goldfinch said:
" @spidey 15 said:
" Actually captain america is enhanced human. A level which is above the peak human. He stats are above the human limit. But DD is a low level peak human so the difference is not by large margin. Btw, it seems that i have overestimated cap a bit. He is not as skilled as i used to believe that he is. Maybe it's the shield and physical stats combined with his skills that allow him to hold his own in battles. Skills aloe would never allow him to accomplish what he did. So i'll just assume that he barely beats DD, even when he has the shield. =] "
I have to say this: Captain America is the best martial artist in Marvel.decided by Marvel, it's unwritten rule. Batman has taken out super-soldiers an he fought to a standstill against Karate Kid. In order to beat Batman, DD has to show he can beat Captain America, but to be honest Cap beats DD in every category: DD is smart, but so is Cap, and Cap is far and away the better battlefield tactician... even you must see that. DD may be able to draw Cap into a dark place, but Cap won't just fold like some amature. He's fought entire platoons of Nazis, aliens, Villains of every level, and is usually the last man standing. Nothing you've listed here is beyond Cap's ability either. He uses nerve strikes, kicks, acrobatic mobility, boxing and other martial arts. The general consensus at Marvel is that Cap is the better hand to hand combatant. He's fast and mobile at a level DD can't match on his best day. Some environments may give DD an advantage, but not enough of one to pull a win against Cap, sorry. For you answer: It will never be a clear cut answer like you want it to be. At Marvel, they will always leave such things ambiguous. Marvel has already established pecking order, but anyone can pull a win under certain circumstances. Cheers. "
Everyone, please. IGNORE THIS POST. Marvel hasn't decided anything - what that guy is saying is a seriously lazy and dishonest method of debating. "
O_______________________O "
No, no it's 5/10, I simply wrote opinions from some other posters, which obviously didn't read Cap's and DD's fights. Cheers.
" Actually captain america is enhanced human. A level which is above the peak human. He stats are above the human limit. But DD is a low level peak human so the difference is not by large margin. Btw, it seems that i have overestimated cap a bit. He is not as skilled as i used to believe that he is. Maybe it's the shield and physical stats combined with his skills that allow him to hold his own in battles. Skills aloe would never allow him to accomplish what he did. So i'll just assume that he barely beats DD, even when he has the shield. =] "
I have to say this: Captain America is the best martial artist in Marvel.decided by Marvel, it's unwritten rule. Batman has taken out super-soldiers an he fought to a standstill against Karate Kid. In order to beat Batman, DD has to show he can beat Captain America, but to be honest Cap beats DD in every category: DD is smart, but so is Cap, and Cap is far and away the better battlefield tactician... even you must see that. DD may be able to draw Cap into a dark place, but Cap won't just fold like some amature. He's fought entire platoons of Nazis, aliens, Villains of every level, and is usually the last man standing. Nothing you've listed here is beyond Cap's ability either. He uses nerve strikes, kicks, acrobatic mobility, boxing and other martial arts. The general consensus at Marvel is that Cap is the better hand to hand combatant. He's fast and mobile at a level DD can't match on his best day. Some environments may give DD an advantage, but not enough of one to pull a win against Cap, sorry. For you answer: It will never be a clear cut answer like you want it to be. At Marvel, they will always leave such things ambiguous. Marvel has already established pecking order, but anyone can pull a win under certain circumstances. Cheers. "
First, since when cap is the best martial artist. That's very wrong. Second, i have already said that cap wins so i don't see what you are debating. Third, you are confusing. At first you said that that match would be 5/10 and that cap is no more skilled than DD. And now you are saying that cap wins and that he is the best h2h fighter...0_0
@Goldfinch said:
" @Goldfinch said:
" @spidey 15 said:
" Actually captain america is enhanced human. A level which is above the peak human. He stats are above the human limit. But DD is a low level peak human so the difference is not by large margin. Btw, it seems that i have overestimated cap a bit. He is not as skilled as i used to believe that he is. Maybe it's the shield and physical stats combined with his skills that allow him to hold his own in battles. Skills aloe would never allow him to accomplish what he did. So i'll just assume that he barely beats DD, even when he has the shield. =] "
I have to say this: Captain America is the best martial artist in Marvel.decided by Marvel, it's unwritten rule. Batman has taken out super-soldiers an he fought to a standstill against Karate Kid. In order to beat Batman, DD has to show he can beat Captain America, but to be honest Cap beats DD in every category: DD is smart, but so is Cap, and Cap is far and away the better battlefield tactician... even you must see that. DD may be able to draw Cap into a dark place, but Cap won't just fold like some amature. He's fought entire platoons of Nazis, aliens, Villains of every level, and is usually the last man standing. Nothing you've listed here is beyond Cap's ability either. He uses nerve strikes, kicks, acrobatic mobility, boxing and other martial arts. The general consensus at Marvel is that Cap is the better hand to hand combatant. He's fast and mobile at a level DD can't match on his best day. Some environments may give DD an advantage, but not enough of one to pull a win against Cap, sorry. For you answer: It will never be a clear cut answer like you want it to be. At Marvel, they will always leave such things ambiguous. Marvel has already established pecking order, but anyone can pull a win under certain circumstances. Cheers. "
Everyone, please. IGNORE THIS POST. Marvel hasn't decided anything - what that guy is saying is a seriously lazy and dishonest method of debating. "
O_______________________O "
No, no it's 5/10, I simply wrote opinions from some other posters, which obviously didn't read Cap's and DD's fights. Cheers. "
I say Cap wins. Recently he has shown much better H2H skill not that he hasn't in the past but now he must rely on it more without his shield. He is physically superior and even DD has mentioned that he can't quite keep up when he was chasing Cap. He also said hes sloppy lol.
I'll simply stop because to be honest I can't say anything until it is written their fight to the death, so far what I've seen in all of their fight, it would end 5/10, this is the most objective look at their fights, but since both Cap and DD are one of my favorite street-levelers, sometimes I'd say Cap wins, and sometimes I'll say DD wins, it depends... Cheers. "
Why do you think the fights they've actually had matter when they are all poorly written and twisted storywise so that neither party looks bad?
@ThaMessenger07 said:
" I say Cap wins. Recently he has shown much better H2H skill not that he hasn't in the past but now he must rely on it more without his shield. He is physically superior and even DD has mentioned that he can't quite keep up when he was chasing Cap. He also said hes sloppy lol. "
Where are you getting this? What has he done recently to prove he's skillfully beyond Daredevil? What has he done ever for that matter? Also what makes you think that statement DD made about not being able to keep up with Cap is true when we've seen him do alot better than "keep up" with Cap his entire career?
@Goldfinch said:
Daredevil, in the end, is a human, Cap is a peak human. A world class athlete to be sure, but a human nonetheless. He has limits to his stamina, even if he doesn't often hit them. Cap, on the other hand, is a completely different story. I think a lot of people erroneously believe that the serum turns Cap into a peak human, making him a peer of daredevil and batman. It does not. It maxes out all of Cap's stats to the peak of human capability. He's as strong as any un-enhanced human can ever become, as faste, as agile, with as much endurance. But these attributes are impossible to attain just by training because a normal human, like Batman or DD, would have to make tradeoffs in some abilities to gain others. To be faster, you have to tn down the bulk. To be stronger, you have to give up some speed. Cap doesnt have to do that; he can literally win every event in the olympics, probably back to back. So while the serum maxes his stats to peak human, make no mistake, these peak attributes work together to make him a superhuman. Thats the edge Cap has against daredevil. In a fight to the finish (which could take hours, even days), where both fighters fight of their own free will without holding back, a la contest of champions, Cap's superior overall stats, particularly his stamina, should win him the day more often than not. Daredevil would have to have a huge skill edge to compensate, and he doesnt. Saying they are almost equal in strength? It's not even close. If I want I can grab all sorts of examples....when has DD held back by pure muscle strength a missle launch or curled weights DD can barely lift at all? Cap physically in every sense ='s or is better then DD...DD is olympic level in many areas...Cap is physical human peak in EVERY area...which really makes him low end super human. In the end, it would be like watching a 50 round boxing match between a middleweight and a heavyweight where the heavyweight is just as fresh in round 50 as he is in round 1. The middleweight would eventually wear out or slow down just enough for that big shot to land. This was copied from another poster I found on other boards, what do you think? "
The post is all over the place and some of it is just simply false.There's alot to respond to but I don't think any of this will add to what was already discussed.The first two lines has this person contradicting themselves.
" Alexander is right , Cap wouldn't beat Daredevil 10/10 or 9/10 . But Cap is a more skilled fighter , no he has never defeated DD in a fair fight but that doesn't mean in a fair fight he'd lose . Cap has far more experience , a small factor in some peoples opinion but i think combat experience at is it 1000 years ? may be 100 , one of the two , i'd say that may come in useful. Cap is superior physically , i'd say they are a fair match at agility perhaps , but strength and pure speed i'd say Cap is the superior . In the end i say Cap wins a good fight , maybe 6 or 7/10 "
I'm sorry but these are so evenly matched with all of their advantages or disadvantages that it is 5/10. "
You're contradicting these statements, but I have not yet seen any feats which put DD significantly ahead of Cap in any area of combat. In terms of agility, DD might have a slight advantage, but not any where near enough to compensate for Cap's far superior strength, speed, and experience.
@Vance Astro: Honestly unless you can post scans of Daredevil being better then Cap please let me know. A flat out showing of superiority would be nice. I don't feel he would stomp but he can pull a win. The statement would be true because in this instance he didn't and when has he truly showed otherwise. Also I didn't say Cap has shown better H2H then DD recently, just shown better H2H then his normal self. He has no shield and is forced to fight opponents without. He even beat like 4 Super Soldiers without being at his normal levels and lowered to the point that he was back to his slim frail self.
" @Vance Astro: Honestly unless you can post scans of Daredevil being better then Cap please let me know. A flat out showing of superiority would be nice. I don't feel he would stomp but he can pull a win. The statement would be true because in this instance he didn't and when has he truly showed otherwise. Also I didn't say Cap has shown better H2H then DD recently, just shown better H2H then his normal self. He has no shield and is forced to fight opponents without. He even beat like 4 Super Soldiers without being at his normal levels and lowered to the point that he was back to his slim frail self. "
You're the one making the claim that Captain America has shown that he's better than Daredevil.I can post a million scans for Daredevil, but i'm not making a case for Daredevil being better than Captain America.I'm under the impression that they are equals in combat..so if YOU have proof that Cap is a better fighter than Daredevil than YOU need to prove it.I didn't make any claims..you did.That's why I asked YOU to back up what you said.
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