#151 Posted by spidey 15 (17884 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve:  

And nothing shown above is above Cap's level. Going back to what I said (and this is putting dodging/deflecting out right avoiding danger) they are too close to call. However if I did have to make a decision based off of feats. Then I would say Cap.  


 
I never said that in reaction time, DD is faster. I just said that he is better due to his powers that gives him better chances of dodging something. Like sensing shooters that might be faar away trying to shot him. DD would when and where they would do it so he can dodge it. Cap has not these kind of abilities, so it's safe to assume that DD is a better dodger. His abilities allow him to be. 
 
 

This account is not. However saying that the person behind this account is. But if course that is going off the basis that, that is my name. Which in all honestly it is not. Say the real technical answer would be no. But of course I could be saying all of this because I am completely bored out of my mind and have not ate yet. Which means I'm trying to procrastinate to keep from working on one of my projects that I should be doing instead.  
 


lol, interesting answer. 
I'm pretty bored as well. 
=P 
#152 Posted by Alurvelve (3669 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
"Now you're just trying to make me jealous.  "
Haha. You wish xP
 
@spidey 15 said:
"I'm pretty bored as well. =P  "
I'm well passed that point. That and someone kneed me in the back tonight so it hurts like a.. well fill in the blank. lol
#153 Posted by Mercy_ (93028 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve: Pfffft. Whatevs. 
Moderator Online
#154 Posted by Dark King (4029 posts) - - Show Bio
#155 Posted by spidey 15 (17884 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve: 

  I'm well passed that point. That and someone kneed me in the back tonight so it hurts like a.. well fill in the blank. lol 
 


LOL
#156 Posted by Alurvelve (3669 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress:Ignores her and goes back to his delicious batch of cookies combined with a tall glass of cold milk
#157 Posted by Mercy_ (93028 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve: Lights them on fire. 
Moderator Online
#158 Posted by spidey 15 (17884 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King said:
" the bullet timing is really irrelevant but i really see Cap being the superior in overall combat speed and reflex due to his constant pis moments..
 
  http://i43.tinypic.com/2n24bch.jpg
 This is how i really see cap treating DD and his skills.
DD explains how he dodges bullets all being bullet timing  
 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/29885/884062-daredevil3nh9_super.jpg
 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/29885/884063-daredevil4yb8_super.jpg    "
As far as i know. The last scans that you posted were from the Ultimate Universe. 
 
616 DD has dodge bullets after they were fired more than once. 
=]
#159 Posted by Mr.Hulk_Smashin'! (2663 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap if the shield is available

#160 Posted by Alexander Hillcrest (72 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King said:
" the bullet timing is really irrelevant but i really see Cap being the superior in overall combat speed and reflex due to his constant pis moments..
 
  http://i43.tinypic.com/2n24bch.jpg
 This is how i really see cap treating DD and his skills.
DD explains how he dodges bullets all being bullet timing  
 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/29885/884062-daredevil3nh9_super.jpg
 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/29885/884063-daredevil4yb8_super.jpg    "
Out of context for the fail.
#161 Posted by Alexander Hillcrest (72 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve said:
. However if I did have to make a decision based off of feats. Then I would say Cap.

You're a Cap fan..this much is obvious.
#162 Posted by Andferne (38280 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alexander Hillcrest: Yes. And?
#163 Posted by Goldfinch (285 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15 said:

" @Goldfinch said:

" @spidey 15 said:

" @Goldfinch:  
It's not fanboyism to say that cap or DD wins. If you have an opinion, it is based on what you have seen from either character. And Steve Rogers have accomplished better skill feats and better physical feats.  
 
And the scans that you have posted are not from contest of champions. It's from Ultimate universe. You can understand that from cap's costume as well. 
 
=] 
 
@Morpheus_ said:

" @Goldfinch:The fight you referenced is not from the mainstream universe. That's Earth 1610; the Ultimate universe. "
Shhhh.... "
 I'm sorry but how can you tell anything from their so-called fights?  They never truly fought in a fair fight, and you have never seen from either character, which might imply who would win. None is going to win until Marvel chooses who would be the ultimate winner.  For now it's 5/10 for each.  "
I didn't tell anything from their " so called fights ". My opinion is only based on what i have seen from these characters. And if i'm going to wait for what winners, the Marvel will give me, then the obvious winner between Spider-man and Firelord, it's spider-man. Even if Firelord should stomp the hell out of him. =] "
 

Give me one proof of that where is it? Neither you or Vance Astro provided it. Both have been shown weakened and hold back or messed in the head when they fought against  each other.  There was nothing in all DD/Cap fight that would even suggest or indicate that Cap would beat DD.
 
You said:  That was amazingly bad written fight and no, DD won't be able to land a nerve strike on cap. Nerve strikes are not like punches. You have to be very specific with these kinds of attacks. And someone with cap's reaction time and a defense like shield, would make it extremely hard for DD to land a pressure point. The instance with Logan should not be compare to that. Logan was in feral state, so obviously he was not relying on skills or anything like that. 
 
Goldfinch: What makes you think he is not going to able to do it, DD is expert in these things one wrong move from Cap and if neither is holding back, he uses nerve strikes to beat him. It can either way. 
 
You said:  Writers does not have to screw DD's senses for cap to beat him. Cap is already skilled and physically able to beat him. You are still using that PIS fight where Cap was KOed by a thrown to a curtain, but you don't prove anything actually. When someone uses PIS fights or events, does not really prove much. 
 
Goldfinch: Actually writers did that that very often, you like it or not otherwise, you're ignoring this. As for curtain, if you hit someone hard enough into the curtain and behind the curtain is the wall he will get KOed, enhanced human or not. 
 
You said: My opinion is only based on what i have seen from these characters. 
Goldfinch: Your opinion is based on your belief not the actual facts. Everything that I've seen so far tells me that this would end up in stalemate. Cap is overestimated here. Black Panther specifically said that Cap's skills are basic, but he has speed and strength. 
 
You said: And if i'm going to wait for what winners, the Marvel will give me, then the obvious winner between Spider-man and Firelord, it's spider-man. Even if Firelord should stomp the hell out of him 
 
You said: And if i'm going to wait for what winners, the Marvel will give me, then the obvious winner between Spider-man and Firelord, it's spider-man. Even if Firelord should stomp the hell out of him. 
 
Goldfinch: You're playing with fire and you're playing with words. This was only one time when Spider-man beat Firelord, and this can happen to everyone, you like it or not. A character who stands a slim chance against another more powerful B character-it doesn't mean this more powerful B character can't lose against weaker A character just because he is far less powerful than than B character.  These are exceptions. When A character consistently beats some other B character-than this is a rock-solid, irrefutable proof that A will beat B in great majority of the fights. Have you seen this in the fights between DD and Cap? 
Of course you haven't. 
 
You said: Cap has shown better skill feat as well as better physical stats.  
Goldfinch: Where did he actually show better skills, not in their fights and the fights against others. 
 
You said: Saying that cap wins without being shown in comics, it's not based on fanboyism, it's based on what ON panel evidence we have seen. And cap has better ON panel feats in terms of skills and physical stats. 
 
Goldfinch: What evidences he is more skillful than DD? Where are they? The only thing that Cap has shown above was his strength. 
 
You said: We don't have to wait for a writer to make a fair fight when we can already know, who should logically wins by judging their feats. Also if you wait for a writer to make a fair fight between Cap and DD, the winner would still be cap anyway, because...you know...he is cap. 
 
Goldfinch: Actually that's dumbest thing I ever read. This is pretty much like I can say, "DD wins because of his superhuman senses and we already know this. There is no need for their ACTUAL FIGHT TO THE END". 
 
You said: Super human senses and skills will only allow to DD to hold his own, but cap's superiority in skills physical stats combined with a weapon that can easily increase his striking power, will make the difference here. 
 
Goldfinch: Where is that Cap's superiority in skills and physical stats, there is no true fight between them.  
 

 

#164 Posted by Goldfinch (285 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:

" @Goldfinch said:

" @Vance Astro:   No, I'm not joking with my posts at all correct them if they are wrong.  "

There's alot to correct.I don't know if I care that much. "
 
 What, what exactly? It doesn't matter how long does it take, I'd like to see your arguments. Your opinion is based on your belief not the actual facts. Everything that I've seen so far tells me that this would end up in stalemate. Cap is overestimated here. Black Panther specifically said that Cap's skills are basic, but he has speed and strength.  
Where is that Cap's superiority in skills and physical stats, there is no true fight between them.    
If you say to me like "We don't have to wait for a writer to make a fair fight when we can already know, who should logically wins by judging their feats. Also if you wait for a writer to make a fair fight between Cap and DD, the winner would still be cap anyway, because...you know...he is cap." 
This is pretty much like I can say, "DD wins because of his superhuman senses and we already know this. There is no need for their ACTUAL FIGHT TO THE END".  
So,  what arguments, I would like to see them.  Or perhaps you don't have arguments at all. 
So far it has been shon it's 5/10 between Cap and DD. 
#165 Posted by Alexander Hillcrest (72 posts) - - Show Bio
@Andferne said:
" @Alexander Hillcrest: Yes. And? "
That's the basis of the point you made not an accurate observation.
#166 Posted by Son_of_Magnus (15463 posts) - - Show Bio

Cluemaster would mess up both these pussies at once

#167 Posted by Vance Astro (89574 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch said:
What, what exactly? It doesn't matter how long does it take, I'd like to see your arguments. Your opinion is based on your belief not the actual facts. Everything that I've seen so far tells me that this would end up in stalemate. Cap is overestimated here. Black Panther specifically said that Cap's skills are basic, but he has speed and strength.   Where is that Cap's superiority in skills and physical stats, there is no true fight between them.     If you say to me like "We don't have to wait for a writer to make a fair fight when we can already know, who should logically wins by judging their feats. Also if you wait for a writer to make a fair fight between Cap and DD, the winner would still be cap anyway, because...you know...he is cap."  This is pretty much like I can say, "DD wins because of his superhuman senses and we already know this. There is no need for their ACTUAL FIGHT TO THE END".   So,  what arguments, I would like to see them.  Or perhaps you don't have arguments at all.  So far it has been shon it's 5/10 between Cap and DD.  "
You've said alot of things in your posts that need correcting and alot of those things are common knowledge things, things I shouldn't have to prove or explain to you.Thus my "I don't care that much response".This match-up has been done to death on comicvine.If you want someone to assist you in beating a dead horse.That's not me.
Moderator
#168 Posted by Goldfinch (285 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: 
What's wrong with you? 
All I ever wanted to show me some proofs? 
Don't waste time on million proof 5 or 6 are just enough, I really don't know why is hard enough to you to post these 5 or 6 proofs? 
#169 Posted by Vance Astro (89574 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch said:
" @Vance Astro:  What's wrong with you?  All I ever wanted to show me some proofs?  Don't waste time on million proof 5 or 6 are just enough, I really don't know why is hard enough to you to post these 5 or 6 proofs?  "
Posting scans in a thread where the outcome is generally conceded IS a waste of time.
Moderator
#170 Posted by Goldfinch (285 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @Goldfinch said:
" @Vance Astro:  What's wrong with you?  All I ever wanted to show me some proofs?  Don't waste time on million proof 5 or 6 are just enough, I really don't know why is hard enough to you to post these 5 or 6 proofs?  "
Posting scans in a thread where the outcome is generally conceded IS a waste of time. "
 
I don't see why is a waste of time, to be honest I want to be assured that Cap beats DD, that's all, I think it's in your interest as well to prove that I'm wrong. 
#171 Posted by spidey 15 (17884 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch: I have already explain why i believe that DD should not land any nerve strike on cap. Why do you ask me something that i have already explain in my post? 
 
DD was never able to land a nerve pinch against a character on cap's speed, level of skill and with as good defense as his shield without the circumstances and bad writing could allow him to do it. 
 
So i guess every time that someone slower and a lot less skilled than cap, lands a hit on DD, it's because DD's sense are screwed. So pretty much, always and against everyone, DD's senses are screwed. Yeah, whatever. 
So, if i throw superman on a wall, he should be KOed even though his durable enough to withstand a loooooooooot worse. 
Cap's durability allowed him to take a lot more punishment than just that. You must be joking if you believe that this could KO him...=/ 
 
Cap overrated??? 
Overrated would be if i count his victories over Hulk as a valid proof because he can actually do it. Only then he would be overrated. 
And how is Cap overrated? Because he should win due to having superior skills and physical stats? WOW, Someone is calling Cap overrated because we use facts to prove that he wins....0_o 
 
Also, what makes you think that DD is as skilled or more skilled than cap? 
 
Again, what their fights has to do with that? 
I don't give a f#ck to what happen in their fights. My opinion is based to what the character has shown. And cap has always been more impressive.  
 
Everyone knows that. DD is just not that good....=]
#172 Posted by ryanthereaper (418 posts) - - Show Bio

unless DD plans on getting possessed again anytime soon, Cap's got this fight 9/10.

#173 Posted by Goldfinch (285 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15:  
Trodorne said it well:  
 Daredevil has the best chance right beside Spider-man, only cause the heightened reflexes and almost radar sense. Daredevil and hear a punching moving through the air and can anticipate the attack. captain america can't really hide cause of his heart beat. and since captain america does not realize DD is blind, DD will just try to bide his time and wait for opennings in captain americas attack..  
If yo look at Cap's and DD's showings, Cap is better against more powerful opponents/metahumans because of his shield, not because he is more skillful. Give DD Cap's shield and the result of DD's showings will equal Cap's. 

DD was never able to land a nerve pinch against a character on cap's speed, level of skill and with as good defense as his shield without the circumstances and bad writing could allow him to do it. 
Not think so. DD stalemated Black Panther several times and he has better showings. And DD will use nerve strikes only if he is not holding back. 
#174 Posted by spidey 15 (17884 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch: As far as i know, Captain America knows that DD is blind. Also, Cap was already skilled enough to tag him. What would be the problem now?  
 
Actually, the shield, makes cap's feats a lot more impressive. Because thanks to that weapon, we can see how good strategist he can be. Also, try to actually check his fights better and you will see how important role, his skills played. 
 
And, DD's showing would not be equal if he had the shield. 
 
How stalemating BP in non serious fights, proves that he can land a nerve strike on Cap??? 
And with morals off, DD would be dead anyway. He would not be able to withstand more than one hit from cap's shield while cap can counter and block most of DD's attacks. 
=]
#175 Posted by Goldfinch (285 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15: 
Fine, you win, at least you could show 3 or 4 scans of Cap having an advantage over DD. How about Cap without shield vs. Daredevil (with billy club)-who wins, and/or Cap without shield vs. Daredevil without billy club. 
How about Cap without Super-Soldier Serum (with or without shield) vs. DD-if you want to make more even fight? 
 
If Cap's showings are more impressive than DD, than what about Thor vs. Hulk-who's stronger and more powerful based by showings? I hope I will make this thread a start these days. 
#176 Posted by spidey 15 (17884 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch: I don't really think Cap without the shield would make much of a difference. Indeed, the fight will be more even and a lot closer, but i think cap's skills and physical stats, still give him greater advantage. 
 
But in the scenario without the SSS, I would certainly give this to DD. 
 
Thor should take a clear majority over Hulk, IMO. 
And it would be better if you don't start the thread. Just use the search function and search for that. 
=]
#177 Posted by comicdude23 (11904 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain America wins easily, far superior showings angainst other fighters, and he is physically superior than DD, and DD isn't getting through his shield.

#178 Posted by spidey 15 (17884 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 said:
"

Captain America wins easily, far superior showings angainst other fighters, and he is physically superior than DD, and DD isn't getting through his shield.

"
Easily? Not at all. 
=]
#179 Posted by comicdude23 (11904 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15 said:
" @comicdude23 said:
"

Captain America wins easily, far superior showings angainst other fighters, and he is physically superior than DD, and DD isn't getting through his shield.

"
Easily? Not at all. =] "

I remember Cap beating Hulk, or was this the Ultimate universe?
#180 Posted by Goldfinch (285 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15 said:
" @Goldfinch: I don't really think Cap without the shield would make much of a difference. Indeed, the fight will be more even and a lot closer, but i think cap's skills and physical stats, still give him greater advantage.  But in the scenario without the SSS, I would certainly give this to DD.  Thor should take a clear majority over Hulk, IMO. And it would be better if you don't start the thread. Just use the search function and search for that. =] "
What makes you think Cap with shield has great advantage against DD with billy club? 
Cap with shield has yet to beat DD with billy club in a fair fight. 50/50 for each. 
#181 Posted by Susanoo (6151 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch said:
" @spidey 15 said:
" @Goldfinch: I don't really think Cap without the shield would make much of a difference. Indeed, the fight will be more even and a lot closer, but i think cap's skills and physical stats, still give him greater advantage.  But in the scenario without the SSS, I would certainly give this to DD.  Thor should take a clear majority over Hulk, IMO. And it would be better if you don't start the thread. Just use the search function and search for that. =] "
What makes you think Cap with shield has great advantage against DD with billy club?  Cap with shield has yet to beat DD with billy club in a fair fight. 50/50 for each.  "

I once saw a scan where DD's senses were altered and he attack Cap on the back of his head with the billy club but Cap wasn't dazed nor injured from it. Cap then proceed to take him down effortlessly.
#182 Posted by Alurvelve (3669 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alexander Hillcrest:  If you actually read the posts you would of seen that I said "I believe to characters to be too close to call".
However. If I was forced to choose one who was the better it would be Cap. Based off of his showings of feats against ranged projectiles.
#183 Posted by Goldfinch (285 posts) - - Show Bio
@Susanoo said:
" @Goldfinch said:
" @spidey 15 said:
" @Goldfinch: I don't really think Cap without the shield would make much of a difference. Indeed, the fight will be more even and a lot closer, but i think cap's skills and physical stats, still give him greater advantage.  But in the scenario without the SSS, I would certainly give this to DD.  Thor should take a clear majority over Hulk, IMO. And it would be better if you don't start the thread. Just use the search function and search for that. =] "
What makes you think Cap with shield has great advantage against DD with billy club?  Cap with shield has yet to beat DD with billy club in a fair fight. 50/50 for each.  "
I once saw a scan where DD's senses were altered and he attack Cap on the back of his head with the billy club but Cap wasn't dazed nor injured from it. Cap then proceed to take him down effortlessly. "
I wonder from which issue is this? And if DD was below his top form. 
#184 Posted by Alexander Hillcrest (72 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve said:
" @Alexander Hillcrest:  If you actually read the posts you would of seen that I said "I believe to characters to be too close to call". However. If I was forced to choose one who was the better it would be Cap. Based off of his showings of feats against ranged projectiles. "
I don't know what caused you to assume I didn't read the posts but I did.I am aware that you believe it's too close to call but you favor Cap over Daredevil.Daredevil has an advantage that Cap doesn't have.If you believe they are anywhere near equal reflexively then how would Cap be the better dodger if Daredevil already knows ahead of time where to move? I don't really see anything shown for Captain America to suggest he's even slightly better.
#185 Posted by Goldfinch (285 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alexander Hillcrest said:
" @Alurvelve said:
" @Alexander Hillcrest:  If you actually read the posts you would of seen that I said "I believe to characters to be too close to call". However. If I was forced to choose one who was the better it would be Cap. Based off of his showings of feats against ranged projectiles. "
I don't know what caused you to assume I didn't read the posts but I did.I am aware that you believe it's too close to call but you favor Cap over Daredevil.Daredevil has an advantage that Cap doesn't have.If you believe they are anywhere near equal reflexively then how would Cap be the better dodger if Daredevil already knows ahead of time where to move? I don't really see anything shown for Captain America to suggest he's even slightly better. "
What do you think does Cap beat DD in a fair fight 10/10 or 6/10? 
#186 Posted by Alurvelve (3669 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alexander Hillcrest:  (I'm assuming you are Vance)
Also as I've said I don't care enough to go dig through old scans I've posted throughout the Vine for the last couple of years. A character can have a dozen advantages over someone else. But if they are not showing to make a bigger significant advantage then why should you believe it to hold true. When on panel showings don't show it.
#187 Posted by Alexander Hillcrest (72 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 said:
"

Captain America wins easily, far superior showings angainst other fighters, and he is physically superior than DD, and DD isn't getting through his shield.

"
This is plain and simply false.Captain America has has fought the same opponents and had the same results.Where are you getting that Cap has far superior showings? I could agree with you saying Captain America is the better fighter because Marvel has been pushing that for years, that Captain America is supposed to be a top level martial artist on Earth..but when you say silly things like DD isn't getting through his shield and Cap has far better showings against other fighters it makes me wonder what you're actually reading.The only characters Captain America has defeated on a higher scale than Daredevil are superhumans and that has nothing to do with fighting skill only Cap's physical ability which is barely above Daredevil's.Lastly (and this is most important) alot of writers favor Captain America so alot of these wins vs. superhumans have been forced and written carelessly.Spider-Man couldn't beat Rhino with a jumpkick..so how could Captain America? See what I mean?
 
@comicdude23 said:
I remember Cap beating Hulk, or was this the Ultimate universe? "
Cap beat the Hulk with Spider-Man's help..and it's PIS on top of that. 
 
@ryanthereaper said:
" unless DD plans on getting possessed again anytime soon, Cap's got this fight 9/10. "
Cap has never beaten DD in a fair fight once so how would he possibly beat him 9 straight times? 
 
@spidey 15 said:
And with morals off, DD would be dead anyway. He would not be able to withstand more than one hit from cap's shield while cap can counter and block most of DD's attacks. =] "
Disagreed.Those extremely hard blows that Cap has used to cut through metal and hurt metahumans are attacks that Cap won't be able to pull off.Daredevil has already proven that throwing a shield at him as a bad idea and the amount of force he would have to swing to duplicate attacks like that...he would have to swing his hardest which will give Daredevil more time to dodge then it would if he is just dodging punches.Daredevil can fight dirty if he wants to.The last person he fought with morals off will never walk again. 
 
@Goldfinch said:
 DD stalemated Black Panther several times and he has better showings. And DD will use nerve strikes only if he is not holding back.  "
Daredevil never stalemated Black Panther.All of their fights are simply unfinished.Their first fight doesn't count because Black Panther was mind controlled and Daredevil was trying to get him to snap out of it.The fight where Sunturion was going to kill himself doesn't count either because Daredevil wasn't even focused on T'Challa.There was one other fight they had and that wasn't a stalemate either because it was interrupted and very few blows were exchanged.
#188 Posted by Alexander Hillcrest (72 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve said:
" @Alexander Hillcrest:  (I'm assuming you are Vance) Also as I've said I don't care enough to go dig through old scans I've posted throughout the Vine for the last couple of years. A character can have a dozen advantages over someone else. But if they are not showing to make a bigger significant advantage then why should you believe it to hold true. When on panel showings don't show it. "
I have scans of things Daredevil has done that probably haven't been posted.Most of the scans that have ever been posted for Daredevil are straight from KMC and he has better dodging feats.If you don't care and don't want to dig up any scans of your own or try and make a case because this fight is overdone..I understand, but I would hope you would do some independent research and compare for yourself whether Daredevil is a better dodger than Cap.It's easy to say that it's too close to call when thinks are left out. 
 
@Goldfinch said:
What do you think does Cap beat DD in a fair fight 10/10 or 6/10?  "
Anyone who thinks Captain America can beat Daredevil 10 our of 10 or even 8 out of 10 is seriously underestimating him.I don't even know about 6/10,that might be too much.I would say maybe 5/10.
#189 Posted by Alurvelve (3669 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alexander Hillcrest said:
"If you don't care and don't want to dig up any scans of your own or try and make a case because this fight is overdone..I understand. "
^_^
 
@Alexander Hillcrest said:
"I understand, but I would hope you would do some independent research and compare for yourself whether Daredevil is a better dodger than Cap.It's easy to say that it's too close to call when thinks are left out."
I'm well aware of DD's feats. And how potent his danger sense can be, especially with a little bit of concentration. DD is one of the characters I've always liked. Also one of the ones who I wished showed up to back up Spider-man more often. Figuring their pasts (before all the stupid retcon crap) and relative distance between each other.
#190 Posted by Goldfinch (285 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alexander Hillcrest said:

" @Alurvelve said:

" @Alexander Hillcrest:  (I'm assuming you are Vance) Also as I've said I don't care enough to go dig through old scans I've posted throughout the Vine for the last couple of years. A character can have a dozen advantages over someone else. But if they are not showing to make a bigger significant advantage then why should you believe it to hold true. When on panel showings don't show it. "
I have scans of things Daredevil has done that probably haven't been posted.Most of the scans that have ever been posted for Daredevil are straight from KMC and he has better dodging feats.If you don't care and don't want to dig up any scans of your own or try and make a case because this fight is overdone..I understand, but I would hope you would do some independent research and compare for yourself whether Daredevil is a better dodger than Cap.It's easy to say that it's too close to call when thinks are left out. 
 
@Goldfinch said:
What do you think does Cap beat DD in a fair fight 10/10 or 6/10?  "
Anyone who thinks Captain America can beat Daredevil 10 our of 10 or even 8 out of 10 is seriously underestimating him.I don't even know about 6/10,that might be too much.I would say maybe 5/10. "
I totally agree, based on all showings that Cap and DD had as well their fights. 5/10 is the right answer, I finally . The same I would say for Black Panther vs. Cap and DD vs. Wolverine. 
Did you see Susanoo's post: "I once saw a scan where DD's senses were altered and he attack Cap on the back of his head with the billy club but Cap wasn't dazed nor injured from it. Cap then proceed to take him down effortlessly." 
Do you know in which issue this happened? 
Thanks. 
#191 Posted by Alexander Hillcrest (72 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch said:
I totally agree, based on all showings that Cap and DD had as well their fights. 5/10 is the right answer, I finally . The same I would say for Black Panther vs. Cap and DD vs. Wolverine.  Did you see Susanoo's post: "I once saw a scan where DD's senses were altered and he attack Cap on the back of his head with the billy club but Cap wasn't dazed nor injured from it. Cap then proceed to take him down effortlessly."  Do you know in which issue this happened?  Thanks.  "
I don't have a clue what he's talking about.As far as I know Cap has not only never "effortlessly" taken down Daredevil he's never beaten him in a fair fight either.Maybe it happened during Tree of Knowledge.I think there was a fight that Daredevil and Cap had during that arc...but i'm doubting that's what it is. 
 
@Alurvelve said:
I'm well aware of DD's feats. 
Have you seen the one where he disappears in front of three Hydra gunman? 
#192 Posted by Alurvelve (3669 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alexander Hillcrest said:
"Have you seen the one where he disappears in front of three Hydra gunman?  "
You are aware that Cap has disappeared from in front of people as well.
#193 Edited by Alexander Hillcrest (72 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve said:

" @Alexander Hillcrest said:

"Have you seen the one where he disappears in front of three Hydra gunman?  "
You are aware that Cap has disappeared from in front of people as well. "
No..but Daredevil reappeared behind them.
#194 Posted by CaptainRodgers (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

Alexander is right , Cap wouldn't beat Daredevil 10/10 or 9/10 .  
 
But Cap is a more skilled fighter , no he has never defeated DD in a fair fight but that doesn't mean in a fair fight he'd lose . 
 
Cap has far more experience , a small factor in some peoples opinion but i think combat experience at is it 1000 years ? may be 100 , one of the two , i'd say that may come in useful. 
 
Cap is superior physically , i'd say they are a fair match at agility perhaps , but strength and pure speed i'd say Cap is the superior . 
  
In the end i say Cap wins a good fight , maybe 6 or 7/10
#195 Posted by comicdude23 (11904 posts) - - Show Bio
@CaptainRodgers said:
"Alexander is right , Cap wouldn't beat Daredevil 10/10 or 9/10 .   But Cap is a more skilled fighter , no he has never defeated DD in a fair fight but that doesn't mean in a fair fight he'd lose .  Cap has far more experience , a small factor in some peoples opinion but i think combat experience at is it 1000 years ? may be 100 , one of the two , i'd say that may come in useful.  Cap is superior physically , i'd say they are a fair match at agility perhaps , but strength and pure speed i'd say Cap is the superior .   In the end i say Cap wins a good fight , maybe 6 or 7/10 "

This
#196 Posted by Goldfinch (285 posts) - - Show Bio
@CaptainRodgers said:
" Alexander is right , Cap wouldn't beat Daredevil 10/10 or 9/10 .   But Cap is a more skilled fighter , no he has never defeated DD in a fair fight but that doesn't mean in a fair fight he'd lose .  Cap has far more experience , a small factor in some peoples opinion but i think combat experience at is it 1000 years ? may be 100 , one of the two , i'd say that may come in useful.  Cap is superior physically , i'd say they are a fair match at agility perhaps , but strength and pure speed i'd say Cap is the superior .   In the end i say Cap wins a good fight , maybe 6 or 7/10 "
I'm sorry but these are so evenly matched with all of their advantages or disadvantages that it is 5/10. 
#197 Posted by CaptainRodgers (1658 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch:
by "these" do you mean the characters or my points. 
 
i disagree , i'd say Cap is the superior martial artist, it's always been that way . 
He's also stronger ,faster and has greater stamina , DD is his equal in terms of agility , both being peak human. 
 Cap has far ,far more combat experience than DD. 
His sheild i've thus far gone without mentioning but it is still a deadly weapon. 
 
I really don't see where Cap faulters here, DD's sonar and superior senses perhaps but other than that i think Cap is the winner , by about 6/10 maybe 7/10 if it's a long fight , we both agree it wouldn't be easy for either so as the fight goes on DD will tire alot quicker than  Cap , giving him a better chance every minute the fight continues.
#198 Posted by spidey 15 (17884 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch said:
" @spidey 15 said:
" @Goldfinch: I don't really think Cap without the shield would make much of a difference. Indeed, the fight will be more even and a lot closer, but i think cap's skills and physical stats, still give him greater advantage.  But in the scenario without the SSS, I would certainly give this to DD.  Thor should take a clear majority over Hulk, IMO. And it would be better if you don't start the thread. Just use the search function and search for that. =] "
What makes you think Cap with shield has great advantage against DD with billy club?  Cap with shield has yet to beat DD with billy club in a fair fight. 50/50 for each.  "
I don't think that the shield is what gives cap that advantage. IMO, cap's physical stats and superiority in skills are enough. It will be just a lot harder and closer fight. 
I don't have to see cap with the shield beating DD in a fair fight in order to assume that he can do it without it. Also there are instance where he was tagged by the shield and DD took it like it was nothing. That's pretty much bad writing. One hit from the shield should be enough to at least slow him down. 
=]
#199 Posted by spidey 15 (17884 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alexander Hillcrest:
 

Disagreed.Those extremely hard blows that Cap has used to cut through metal and hurt metahumans are attacks that Cap won't be able to pull off.Daredevil has already proven that throwing a shield at him as a bad idea and the amount of force he would have to swing to duplicate attacks like that...he would have to swing his hardest which will give Daredevil more time to dodge then it would if he is just dodging punches.Daredevil can fight dirty if he wants to.The last person he fought with morals off will never walk again.   
 


I never said that cap would throw the shield. Cap already knows about DD's abilities IIRC so he should know that this is a wrong tactic. 
I was talking about punching him with the shield. Cap has already done that and the only reason that  DD was not even slow down by that is bad writing, IMO. 
=] 
 
 

 (I'm assuming you are Vance)   


 
He is, check his gallery...=P 
#200 Posted by Alexander Hillcrest (72 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15 said:
I never said that cap would throw the shield. Cap already knows about DD's abilities IIRC so he should know that this is a wrong tactic. 
I was talking about punching him with the shield. Cap has already done that and the only reason that  DD was not even slow down by that is bad writing, IMO. 
=] 
I know you didn't.I'm saying in order for Cap to kill Daredevil with his shield he would either have to swing it his hardest or throw it.Neither of which are going to work out for him. 
I know you were talking about punching with the shield but even when punching he still has to swing his arms.Jabbing is preferable against Daredevil because that gives him less time to counter or dodge.  
 
@CaptainRodgers said:
" @Goldfinch: by "these" do you mean the characters or my points.  i disagree , i'd say Cap is the superior martial artist, it's always been that way . He's also stronger ,faster and has greater stamina , DD is his equal in terms of agility , both being peak human.  Cap has far ,far more combat experience than DD. His sheild i've thus far gone without mentioning but it is still a deadly weapon.  I really don't see where Cap faulters here, DD's sonar and superior senses perhaps but other than that i think Cap is the winner , by about 6/10 maybe 7/10 if it's a long fight , we both agree it wouldn't be easy for either so as the fight goes on DD will tire alot quicker than  Cap , giving him a better chance every minute the fight continues. "
Cap's stamina and combat experience are two things that will help him none against Daredevil.