#101 Posted by Mercy_ (92634 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_ said:
" @spidey 15 said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" @Goldfinch: The fight you referenced is not from the mainstream universe. That's Earth 1610; the Ultimate universe. "
Shhhh.... "
Ur face? :P "
LMAO. Nicely played. 
Moderator
#102 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" @spidey 15 said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" @Goldfinch: The fight you referenced is not from the mainstream universe. That's Earth 1610; the Ultimate universe. "
Shhhh.... "
Ur face? :P "
LMAO. Nicely played.  "
When the dark one will be summoned, it won't be nice. 
I hope you know on who i'm referring to, when i say dark one.... 
=P
#103 Edited by Mercy_ (92634 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15: Whispers. Spike?   
 
Edit: YOU'RE A TOP POSTER IN THE BATTLE FORUM NOW!!! CONGRATS!
Moderator
#104 Posted by Goldfinch (235 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:

" @spidey 15 said:

" Cap still wins though...=P "

No argument there. "
 
However, this fight between Cap and Black Panther like Morpheus said is not from the mainstream universe. That's Earth 1610; the Ultimate universe.  And it's 5/10 between Cap and DD as well between Cap and Black Panther 5/10 and between DD and Black Panther 5/10, there is no way, there is no proof to think otherwise, but enough proof to think like this.  
And the most objective answer is that we can't know who would win until writers write their fair fight to the end.  
There is no other option than this-everything else is the subject to fanboyism. 
You said that you think Black Panther is just smarter and more physically dominant than Daredevil.I  think they are equally skilled. Cap and DD are also more or less equally skilled, but DD has advantage with his superhuman senses.   
DD KOing Cap in Avengers mansion NOT A BAD WRITING, IT WAS A MATTER OF CIRCUMSTANCES (i made a mistake), but also Cap was surprised as well that DD could see him in that dark room.   
 
P.S. I can't post more than 5 messages per a day on this forum, so if I don't respond today, I'll respond tomorrow.  
#105 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
" @spidey 15: Whispers. Spike?    Edit: YOU'RE A TOP POSTER IN THE BATTLE FORUM NOW!!! CONGRATS! "
Yup. Who else could be??? =P 
 
HEEEYYYY, YOU ARE RIGHT!!! 
I'M A TOP POSTER.....RESPECT 8-)
#106 Posted by Mercy_ (92634 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15: Mr. Bob. ;) He's become a plague. Haven't seen him lately, though. Not since alcohol bob.  
 
Bows down before him. 
Moderator
#107 Posted by Goldfinch (235 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15 said:
" @Goldfinch:  
It's not fanboyism to say that cap or DD wins. If you have an opinion, it is based on what you have seen from either character. And Steve Rogers have accomplished better skill feats and better physical feats.  
 
And the scans that you have posted are not from contest of champions. It's from Ultimate universe. You can understand that from cap's costume as well. 
 
=] 
 
@Morpheus_ said:
" @Goldfinch: The fight you referenced is not from the mainstream universe. That's Earth 1610; the Ultimate universe. "
Shhhh.... "
 
I'm sorry but how can you tell anything from their so-called fights? 
They never truly fought in a fair fight, and you have never seen from either character, which might imply who would win. None is going to win until Marvel chooses who would be the ultimate winner. 
For now it's 5/10 for each. 
#108 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch said:
" @Vance Astro said:

" @spidey 15 said:

" Cap still wins though...=P "

No argument there. "
 
However, this fight between Cap and Black Panther like Morpheus said is not from the mainstream universe. That's Earth 1610; the Ultimate universe.  And it's 5/10 between Cap and DD as well between Cap and Black Panther 5/10 and between DD and Black Panther 5/10, there is no way, there is no proof to think otherwise, but enough proof to think like this.   And the most objective answer is that we can't know who would win until writers write their fair fight to the end.   There is no other option than this-everything else is the subject to fanboyism.  You said that you think Black Panther is just smarter and more physically dominant than Daredevil.I  think they are equally skilled. Cap and DD are also more or less equally skilled, but DD has advantage with his superhuman senses.    DD KOing Cap in Avengers mansion NOT A BAD WRITING, IT WAS A MATTER OF CIRCUMSTANCES (i made a mistake), but also Cap was surprised as well that DD could see him in that dark room.     P.S. I can't post more than 5 messages per a day on this forum, so if I don't respond today, I'll respond tomorrow.   "
It's not really 5/10 with DD and Cap. 
Cap has shown better skill feat as well as better physical stats. If you combined that with his shield and you can see cap having the advantage. 
Saying that cap wins without being shown in comics, it's not based on fanboyism, it's based on what ON panel evidence we have seen. And cap has better ON panel feats in terms of skills and physical stats. 
We don't have to wait for a writer to make a fair fight when we can already know, who should logically wins by judging their feats. Also if you wait for a writer to make a fair fight between Cap and DD, the winner would still be cap anyway, because...you know...he is cap. 
 
Also, no circumstances where in the fight in Avengers mansion. It was just bad writing. Cap being KOed because he was thrown, Her being Koed from the shield( lol ) etc... 
 
@The Dark Huntress said:
" @spidey 15: Mr. Bob. ;) He's become a plague. Haven't seen him lately, though. Not since alcohol bob.  
 
Bows down before him.  "
Neither Spike has appeared...yaaayyy
#109 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch said:
" @spidey 15 said:
" @Goldfinch:  
It's not fanboyism to say that cap or DD wins. If you have an opinion, it is based on what you have seen from either character. And Steve Rogers have accomplished better skill feats and better physical feats.  
 
And the scans that you have posted are not from contest of champions. It's from Ultimate universe. You can understand that from cap's costume as well. 
 
=] 
 
@Morpheus_ said:
" @Goldfinch: The fight you referenced is not from the mainstream universe. That's Earth 1610; the Ultimate universe. "
Shhhh.... "
 I'm sorry but how can you tell anything from their so-called fights?  They never truly fought in a fair fight, and you have never seen from either character, which might imply who would win. None is going to win until Marvel chooses who would be the ultimate winner.  For now it's 5/10 for each.  "
I didn't tell anything from their " so called fights ". My opinion is only based on what i have seen from these characters. 
And if i'm going to wait for what winners, the Marvel will give me, then the obvious winner between Spider-man and Firelord, it's spider-man. Even if Firelord should stomp the hell out of him. 
=]
#110 Posted by Nefarious (18861 posts) - - Show Bio

CA wins. 

#111 Posted by RamsesII (199 posts) - - Show Bio

CAPTAIN AMERICA 
he wins because he can take anything dare devil blows 
 
*DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT HIM BENDING STEEL OR FLIPPING A LIMOSINE BECAUSE HE IS ONLY STRONG AS A PEAK HUMAN NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS ALL THAT WAS BAD WRITEING*
#112 Posted by cosmos10040 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@ ramsesll 
 
Cap cannot take a nerve strike to his throat!!! unless hes a robot! Most of the fights, DD holds back or is not 100%. While at the same time Cap was either 100% or not holding back, except that time DD was brainwashed or something at that cemetary.
#113 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

first avenger

#114 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch said:
However, this fight between Cap and Black Panther like Morpheus said is not from the mainstream universe. That's Earth 1610; the Ultimate universe.  And it's 5/10 between Cap and DD as well between Cap and Black Panther 5/10 and between DD and Black Panther 5/10, there is no way, there is no proof to think otherwise, but enough proof to think like this.   And the most objective answer is that we can't know who would win until writers write their fair fight to the end.   There is no other option than this-everything else is the subject to fanboyism.  You said that you think Black Panther is just smarter and more physically dominant than Daredevil.I  think they are equally skilled. Cap and DD are also more or less equally skilled, but DD has advantage with his superhuman senses.    DD KOing Cap in Avengers mansion NOT A BAD WRITING, IT WAS A MATTER OF CIRCUMSTANCES (i made a mistake), but also Cap was surprised as well that DD could see him in that dark room.     P.S. I can't post more than 5 messages per a day on this forum, so if I don't respond today, I'll respond tomorrow.   "
I'm not going to respond to this.I think we are all agreed here on who wins.There is really no point in dragging this out. 
I also don't know what a fight with Black Panther has do with me or anything I said but...whatever.
Moderator
#115 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio
@RamsesII said:
" CAPTAIN AMERICA he wins because he can take anything dare devil blows  *DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT HIM BENDING STEEL OR FLIPPING A LIMOSINE BECAUSE HE IS ONLY STRONG AS A PEAK HUMAN NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS ALL THAT WAS BAD WRITEING* "
You broke the ridiculous meter.
Moderator
#116 Posted by Goldfinch (235 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:

" @Goldfinch said:

However, this fight between Cap and Black Panther like Morpheus said is not from the mainstream universe. That's Earth 1610; the Ultimate universe.  And it's 5/10 between Cap and DD as well between Cap and Black Panther 5/10 and between DD and Black Panther 5/10, there is no way, there is no proof to think otherwise, but enough proof to think like this.   And the most objective answer is that we can't know who would win until writers write their fair fight to the end.   There is no other option than this-everything else is the subject to fanboyism.  You said that you think Black Panther is just smarter and more physically dominant than Daredevil.I  think they are equally skilled. Cap and DD are also more or less equally skilled, but DD has advantage with his superhuman senses.    DD KOing Cap in Avengers mansion NOT A BAD WRITING, IT WAS A MATTER OF CIRCUMSTANCES (i made a mistake), but also Cap was surprised as well that DD could see him in that dark room.     P.S. I can't post more than 5 messages per a day on this forum, so if I don't respond today, I'll respond tomorrow.   "
I'm not going to respond to this.I think we are all agreed here on who wins.There is really no point in dragging this out. I also don't know what a fight with Black Panther has do with me or anything I said but...whatever. "
I didn't agree an here is why: Like Cosmos said 
Most of the fights, DD holds back or is not 100%. While at the same time Cap was either 100% or not holding back, except that time DD was drugged by Death-Stalker at that cemetery.  So, if DD was holding back and was not 100% either physically or mentally or simply wasn't focused on the fight between him and Cap, how do you know who's going to win? 
We have never seen an actual fight between DD and Cap when they are both fresh and not holding back at all. 
Your comment, please. 
#117 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch said:
I didn't agree an here is why: Like Cosmos said  Most of the fights, DD holds back or is not 100%. While at the same time Cap was either 100% or not holding back, except that time DD was drugged by Death-Stalker at that cemetery.  So, if DD was holding back and was not 100% either physically or mentally or simply wasn't focused on the fight between him and Cap, how do you know who's going to win?  We have never seen an actual fight between DD and Cap when they are both fresh and not holding back at all.  Your comment, please.  "
Daredevil doesn't hold back 100% of the time.In fact he hasn't even held back 100% of the time against Captain America.The time he was drugged and the time he fought Cap and the Avengers he wasn't holding back also the first time they ever fought Daredevil wasn't holding back then either.He was actually trying to hurt Cap.He didn't like Cap when the first met, he called him a show off.It was Cap in that instance that held back on Daredevil...and Daredevil ended up fleeing the fight.I don't know what holding back has to do with anything but Captain America IS a better fighter than Daredevil and always has been he's also physically dominant over Daredevil and that is why he can beat Daredevil in this setting.Battle forums aren't based on what happens when these characters actually fight.It's a comparison of their stats and feats overall to determine who should be the superior combatant.Which in this case is Captain America.We've seen plenty of ACTUAL fights between DD and Captain America they are just mostly poorly written.
Moderator
#118 Posted by sevennames27 (1583 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @Goldfinch said:
I didn't agree an here is why: Like Cosmos said  Most of the fights, DD holds back or is not 100%. While at the same time Cap was either 100% or not holding back, except that time DD was drugged by Death-Stalker at that cemetery.  So, if DD was holding back and was not 100% either physically or mentally or simply wasn't focused on the fight between him and Cap, how do you know who's going to win?  We have never seen an actual fight between DD and Cap when they are both fresh and not holding back at all.  Your comment, please.  "
Daredevil doesn't hold back 100% of the time.In fact he hasn't even held back 100% of the time against Captain America.The time he was drugged and the time he fought Cap and the Avengers he wasn't holding back also the first time they ever fought Daredevil wasn't holding back then either.He was actually trying to hurt Cap.He didn't like Cap when the first met, he called him a show off.It was Cap in that instance that held back on Daredevil...and Daredevil ended up fleeing the fight.I don't know what holding back has to do with anything but Captain America IS a better fighter than Daredevil and always has been he's also physically dominant over Daredevil and that is why he can beat Daredevil in this setting.Battle forums aren't based on what happens when these characters actually fight.It's a comparison of their stats and feats overall to determine who should be the superior combatant.Which in this case is Captain America.We've seen plenty of ACTUAL fights between DD and Captain America they are just mostly poorly written. "

I do not think you are taking into account all of DDs almost mistical Ninja powers.
#119 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio
@sevennames27 said:
" @Vance Astro said:
" @Goldfinch said:
I didn't agree an here is why: Like Cosmos said  Most of the fights, DD holds back or is not 100%. While at the same time Cap was either 100% or not holding back, except that time DD was drugged by Death-Stalker at that cemetery.  So, if DD was holding back and was not 100% either physically or mentally or simply wasn't focused on the fight between him and Cap, how do you know who's going to win?  We have never seen an actual fight between DD and Cap when they are both fresh and not holding back at all.  Your comment, please.  "
Daredevil doesn't hold back 100% of the time.In fact he hasn't even held back 100% of the time against Captain America.The time he was drugged and the time he fought Cap and the Avengers he wasn't holding back also the first time they ever fought Daredevil wasn't holding back then either.He was actually trying to hurt Cap.He didn't like Cap when the first met, he called him a show off.It was Cap in that instance that held back on Daredevil...and Daredevil ended up fleeing the fight.I don't know what holding back has to do with anything but Captain America IS a better fighter than Daredevil and always has been he's also physically dominant over Daredevil and that is why he can beat Daredevil in this setting.Battle forums aren't based on what happens when these characters actually fight.It's a comparison of their stats and feats overall to determine who should be the superior combatant.Which in this case is Captain America.We've seen plenty of ACTUAL fights between DD and Captain America they are just mostly poorly written. "
I do not think you are taking into account all of DDs almost mistical Ninja powers. "
He doesn't have any mystical ninja powers.His only "powers" are superhuman senses.
Moderator
#120 Posted by Goldfinch (235 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: 
I want the proof that Cap proved more skillful than DD, and what issue. 
And holding back does have a lot with fight. if one side is holding back and the other side is not holding back. there will be significant difference in fight. There is also issue where Cap tried to hurt DD, so your point is a moot point. Where are the proofs? 
 
Daredevil 43: Daredevil is drugged, and Captain America is holding back and pleading with him to stop. They fight more or less evenly until the drugs wear off and DD flees.

Daredevil 155: A delirious Daredevil gets the drop on the Avengers in the dark, momentarily taking down Beast and Captain America, and stunning Herc.

Captain America 243: Captain America is drugged, DD is holding back. Fight was in Caps favour before he broke free from the mind control.

Captain America 375, Streets of Poison: Captain America is drugged, DD is off his game. DD dodges a bit before Captain America two shots him.

Daredevil and Captain America: Dead on Arrival: Daredevil is drugged and hallucinating, Cap is holding back. They fight for a few pages until Cap lets himself get tackled, then shoots up DD with the cure.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 

#121 Posted by Alurvelve (3634 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch said:
"Daredevil 43: Daredevil is drugged, and Captain America is holding back and pleading with him to stop. They fight more or less evenly until the drugs wear off and DD flees. Daredevil 155: A delirious Daredevil gets the drop on the Avengers in the dark, momentarily taking down Beast and Captain America, and stunning Herc. Captain America 243: Captain America is drugged, DD is holding back. Fight was in Caps favour before he broke free from the mind control. Captain America 375, Streets of Poison: Captain America is drugged, DD is off his game. DD dodges a bit before Captain America two shots him. Daredevil and Captain America: Dead on Arrival: Daredevil is drugged and hallucinating, Cap is holding back. They fight for a few pages until Cap lets himself get tackled, then shoots up DD with the cure.                           "
Everything here would lead to the conclusion that Cap gets the advantage.
#122 Posted by Goldfinch (235 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: 
 Daredevil has better reflexes then Cap and his reactions go way beyond anything Cap has shown.
Cap has him with Strength and both have equally great skill, but Daredevil's propensity to go for nerve centers that can KO people with Superhuman durability don't make me think Cap has much of a chance in a straight fight. And DD could/would do it inside the battle field against Cap if neither is holding back. 
 
 

 
#123 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch said:
" @Vance Astro:  I want the proof that Cap proved more skillful than DD, and what issue.  And holding back does have a lot with fight. if one side is holding back and the other side is not holding back. there will be significant difference in fight. There is also issue where Cap tried to hurt DD, so your point is a moot point. Where are the proofs?   Daredevil 43: Daredevil is drugged, and Captain America is holding back and pleading with him to stop. They fight more or less evenly until the drugs wear off and DD flees. Daredevil 155: A delirious Daredevil gets the drop on the Avengers in the dark, momentarily taking down Beast and Captain America, and stunning Herc. Captain America 243: Captain America is drugged, DD is holding back. Fight was in Caps favour before he broke free from the mind control. Captain America 375, Streets of Poison: Captain America is drugged, DD is off his game. DD dodges a bit before Captain America two shots him. Daredevil and Captain America: Dead on Arrival: Daredevil is drugged and hallucinating, Cap is holding back. They fight for a few pages until Cap lets himself get tackled, then shoots up DD with the cure.                           "
You have to be joking with this post.
Moderator
#124 Posted by Alurvelve (3634 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch said:
"Daredevil has better reflexes then Cap and his reactions go way beyond anything Cap has shown."
Not likely. They are both extremely close in those areas. If anything Cap would have the advantage based off showings.
#125 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch said:
" @Vance Astro:   Daredevil has better reflexes then Cap and his reactions go way beyond anything Cap has shown. Cap has him with Strength and both have equally great skill, but Daredevil's propensity to go for nerve centers that can KO people with Superhuman durability don't make me think Cap has much of a chance in a straight fight. And DD could/would do it inside the battle field against Cap if neither is holding back.      "
Where do you get this stuff? Seriously...
Moderator
#126 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve said:
" @Goldfinch said:
"Daredevil has better reflexes then Cap and his reactions go way beyond anything Cap has shown."
Not likely. They are both extremely close in those areas. If anything Cap would have the advantage based off showings. "
Actually their reflexes are equal. But DD is better dodger due to his agility and radar that allowes him to read moves. But their reaction time is generally on the same level.
=]
#127 Posted by Goldfinch (235 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: 
 
No, I'm not joking with my posts at all correct them if they are wrong. 
#128 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch said:
" @Vance Astro:   No, I'm not joking with my posts at all correct them if they are wrong.  "
There's alot to correct.I don't know if I care that much.
Moderator
#129 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@Goldfinch:
Cap beats DD
#130 Posted by Alurvelve (3634 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15 said:
"Actually their reflexes are equal. But DD is better dodger due to his agility and radar that allowes him to read moves. But their reaction time is generally on the same level. =] "
Again going off of showings the part I put in bold is very debatable. Both have impressive feats. What makes the distinct difference is something you, yourself mentioned. While Daredevil does his dodging he not only has his agility and acrobatic prowess. But he also has that radar sense to help him out. However. Steve does not have any such ability and does similar feats to avoid dangers. Therefor a logical conclusion is that Cap is a better dodger due to he can achieve the same level feats with less.
#131 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve said:
" @spidey 15 said:
"Actually their reflexes are equal. But DD is better dodger due to his agility and radar that allowes him to read moves. But their reaction time is generally on the same level. =] "
Again going off of showings the part I put in bold is very debatable. Both have impressive feats. What makes the distinct difference is something you, yourself mentioned. While Daredevil does his dodging he not only has his agility and acrobatic prowess. But he also has that radar sense to help him out. However. Steve does not have any such ability and does similar feats to avoid dangers. Therefor a logical conclusion is that Cap is a better dodger due to he can achieve the same level feats with less. "
Not really. DD has shown to be better dodger actually. Their showings are similar, because both of them are constantly dodging bullets. But what it matters is the way they dodge them. 
Here in that scan, DD is dodging bullets in a way that the shooters think that DD are reading their minds and that he knows what they will do before they do it. These are results of his ability to read moves due to his radar.  


Here, DD is catching a projectile from Bullseye without seeing it coming( well he can not see anyway ). In cap's case, if he should be able to catch or dodge the projectile, he should see it in order to do it. But thanks to his radar, DD has a lot better awareness so he has better chances of dodging something than cap does. So you can see that he is a better dodger. 


 To sum up. 
Cap has similar dodging feats with DD of dodging bullets and other stuff like that. According to showings, their reflexes should be on a similar level. But DD has better chances of dodging something due to his radar that increase his awareness and it can also gives him the ability to predict moves. In order for cap to dodge something, he has to see it coming. In DD's case, he is already aware if an attack is coming, so you can see that he has better chances of dodging something. So he is a better dodger than cap. 
=]
#132 Posted by PowerHerc (81712 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap stomps.
#133 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc said:
" Cap stomps. "
He wins but it is not a stomp at all. 
=]
#134 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

Caps

#135 Posted by PirateKing69 (4290 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap's win in a close match imo

#136 Posted by Alurvelve (3634 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15 said:
"According to showings, their reflexes should be on a similar level. But DD has better chances of dodging something due to his radar that increase his awareness and it can also gives him the ability to predict moves. In order for cap to dodge something, he has to see it coming. In DD's case, he is already aware if an attack is coming, so you can see that he has better chances of dodging something. So he is a better dodger than cap. =] "
Put in bold the important part.
Just because he has his radar sense and therefor a better awareness of his surroundings. Does not equal to him being the better dodger, this is speculation on your part. Not actual fact. When it comes to bullets Cap's feats outshine DD, and there are more instances of it.
#137 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve said:
" @spidey 15 said:
"According to showings, their reflexes should be on a similar level. But DD has better chances of dodging something due to his radar that increase his awareness and it can also gives him the ability to predict moves. In order for cap to dodge something, he has to see it coming. In DD's case, he is already aware if an attack is coming, so you can see that he has better chances of dodging something. So he is a better dodger than cap. =] "
Put in bold the important part. Just because he has his radar sense and therefor a better awareness of his surroundings. Does not equal to him being the better dodger, this is speculation on your part. Not actual fact. When it comes to bullets Cap's feats outshine DD, and there are more instances of it. "
According to the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Master Edition they ARE equal in reflexes. 
Cap's bullet timing feats DO NOT out shine Daredevil's.
Moderator
#138 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve said:
" @spidey 15 said:
"According to showings, their reflexes should be on a similar level. But DD has better chances of dodging something due to his radar that increase his awareness and it can also gives him the ability to predict moves. In order for cap to dodge something, he has to see it coming. In DD's case, he is already aware if an attack is coming, so you can see that he has better chances of dodging something. So he is a better dodger than cap. =] "
Put in bold the important part. Just because he has his radar sense and therefor a better awareness of his surroundings. Does not equal to him being the better dodger, this is speculation on your part. Not actual fact. When it comes to bullets Cap's feats outshine DD, and there are more instances of it. "
Since when it's speculation when i have actually shown you scans that proves my point? 
I would like to see cap dodging something when he is not aware that is coming. 
In DD's case, unless something screw his radar sense, he is always aware of the attack that is coming. He can not be taken by surprise while cap can be. 
I would like to see what instances outshine those of DD's. Because i have never seen any occasion where a shooter was so impressed by Cap's dodging, that he actually thought that he was even reading his mind or something.  
I'm still trying to understand how the guy who has the reaction time that allows him to deflect bullets from point blank and he is always aware of an incoming attack will be an inferior dodger to a character that dodges only what he sees. I don't think that makes any sense. 
=[
#139 Posted by Alurvelve (3634 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
"According to the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Master Edition they ARE equal in reflexes."
Which I have agreed with.
 
@Vance Astro said:
"Cap's bullet timing feats DO NOT out shine Daredevil's. "
Want to make sure we're not being too technical with how this is written. So I'll explain my side in a bit more detail to make sure we see eye to eye as this has come up with Cap Vs Bats before.
 
When I count Caps dodging feats I include all the ones in which he uses his shield as well. Deflection etc. So if we are counting feats that include Steve using the shield. Yes I believe he not only has more feats. Better a better consistency with them as well. However. If we are not counting feats using the shield his showings become slim pickings as he is typically with it.
 
@spidey 15 said:
"Since when it's speculation when i have actually shown you scans that proves my point?"
No you did not. You posted two scans which in all honesty are not above Caps own skill level.
 
@spidey 15 said:
"I'm still trying to understand how the guy who has the reaction time that allows him to deflect bullets from point blank and he is always aware of an incoming attack will be an inferior dodger to a character that dodges only what he sees. I don't think that makes any sense. =[ "
We have seen Cap dodge and deflect bullets at point blank range as well. Among other things, which can be seen as ridiculous. Such as him out pacing a bullet fired from the Red Skull in a room, beating it to it's target. Cap is full of feats like this. But I'm going to stop here. If not just because 1) This fight obviously has a clear winner. 2) I honestly don't care enough to debate this further as I don't want to track down scans I've posted for 3 years on these boards to prove my point.
#140 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve said:
@Vance Astro said:
"Cap's bullet timing feats DO NOT out shine Daredevil's. "
Want to make sure we're not being too technical with how this is written. So I'll explain my side in a bit more detail to make sure we see eye to eye as this has come up with Cap Vs Bats before.
 
When I count Caps dodging feats I include all the ones in which he uses his shield as well. Deflection etc. So if we are counting feats that include Steve using the shield. Yes I believe he not only has more feats. Better a better consistency with them as well. However. If we are not counting feats using the shield his showings become slim pickings as he is typically with it.
You are aware that blocking and dodging are two different things though right? It's alot easier to put something in the way of a bullet rather than to move your entire body out of the way.I've seen Daredevil deflect bullets.So I'm not really seeing what Cap has done that Daredevil couldn't.I don't know where you're getting the consistency stuff from either.Daredevil's bullet dodging feats have been high level and on that same level since day one.He was deflecting bullets with his billy clubs since Daredevil #1.
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#141 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve:  

No you did not. You posted two scans which in all honesty are not above Caps own skill level.  
 


Show me a scan where cap actually dodge or even catch something without looking at it then we might consider that cap is as good dodger as DD. 
Also i have never seen cap dodging bullets in a way that his opponents thought that he was reading their minds. 
  
 

  We have seen Cap dodge and deflect bullets at point blank range as well. Among other things, which can be seen as ridiculous. Such as him out pacing a bullet fired from the Red Skull in a room, beating it to it's target. Cap is full of feats like this. But I'm going to stop here. If not just because 1) This fight obviously has a clear winner. 2) I honestly don't care enough to debate this further as I don't want to track down scans I've posted for 3 years on these boards to prove my point. 
 


And that's why their reaction times is at equal levels. Nothing cap has done that " outshine " DD's reaction feats. 
Outrunning a bullet? Bad writing, 
Spider-man while he was swinging( everyone knows that when he swings, he moves extremely fast ) barely outrun bullets. And somehow cap who does not even have super human speed, let alone on spidey's level, manage to outrun it?  
 There is no reason to post scans, because there is no scan that proves that he is better dodger than DD.  
You can have a shooter that he might be like 100 meters away or even further and try to shot DD. He will fail because DD would already be aware where he is and when he will shot. 
Too bad that cap has nothing that allows him to do it. 
So, you can see that DD is a better dodger. He has the abilities to dodge attacks that cap would never be aware that are coming. 
=]
#142 Posted by Alurvelve (3634 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
"You are aware that blocking and dodging are two different things though right?"
Yes I am aware of that. Which is why I explained myself further. Because when I made the statement that based off of showings/feats Cap's outshines (perhaps too strong of a word) DD's. 
 
@Vance Astro said:
"I've seen Daredevil deflect bullets.So I'm not really seeing what Cap has done that Daredevil couldn't.I don't know where you're getting the consistency stuff from either.Daredevil's bullet dodging feats have been high level and on that same level since day one.He was deflecting bullets with his billy clubs since Daredevil #1. "
Consistency as in every time you turn around there is a scan or feat of Cap dodging/deflecting something. I'm not downplaying DD's agility or acrobatics. Just imo IF I had to choose who has better feats based off showings.I would say Cap. Otherwise I would say they are too close to call.
#143 Posted by Alurvelve (3634 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15 said:

"There is no reason to post scans, because there is no scan that proves that he is better dodger than DD.  "




 Pay close attention of not only how close the shooter is. But two where deflected while the third was dodged/avoided











I scan that has been seen a million times here I am sure.




Cap has also moved fast enough and with enough 'stealth' to disappear from in front of his attackers This of course is just the tip of the iceberg . With the dozens of feats I have posted over the years here.
#144 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve: Nothing of these scans outshine what DD has done. 

















And again, DD has all the abilities that make him a better dodger than Cap, Bruce and other characters. 
DD can read moves and that allows him to know where the shooter is aiming and when he will shot. 
He also does not even have to see where the attack is coming from because he is already aware where it is. He can basically dodge without even looking at the attack. 
Nothing of these applies to Cap. He just reacts to what he sees. 
DD reacts at things that cap would never be able to see because he is not aware that are coming or where are they coming from. 
So, who do you think is a better dodger. The guys that knows where ans when the shooter will shot and that can reacts to things without even looking at them? 
Or the guys who has to see the attack in order to dodge it? 
 
Also, your last scan shows moving speed, not reaction. This is what we are debate here. 
 
Btw, are you Andferne? 
=]
#145 Posted by Alurvelve (3634 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15 said:
" Nothing of these scans outshine what DD has done. 
And nothing shown above is above Cap's level. Going back to what I said (and this is putting dodging/deflecting out right avoiding danger) they are too close to call. However if I did have to make a decision based off of feats. Then I would say Cap.
 
@spidey 15 said:
"Btw, are you Andferne? =] "
This account is not. However saying that the person behind this account is. But if course that is going off the basis that, that is my name. Which in all honestly it is not. Say the real technical answer would be no. But of course I could be saying all of this because I am completely bored out of my mind and have not ate yet. Which means I'm trying to procrastinate to keep from working on one of my projects that I should be doing instead.
#146 Posted by Mercy_ (92634 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve said:

 
@spidey 15 said:
"Btw, are you Andferne? =] "
This account is not. However saying that the person behind this account is. But if course that is going off the basis that, that is my name. Which in all honestly it is not. Say the real technical answer would be no. But of course I could be saying all of this because I am completely bored out of my mind and have not ate yet. Which means I'm trying to procrastinate to keep from working on one of my projects that I should be doing instead. "
Andy, you're going out of your mind. :P
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#147 Posted by Alurvelve (3634 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress: Possibly. I just keep putting off this module because I know how huge of a project it's going to be. The amount of time it'll take to complete it is going to be insane. With all the writing, power scaling, hooks, etc etc. >_>
 
Maybe I'll go grab a bite. Cookies sounds enticing.
#148 Posted by Mercy_ (92634 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve: Stop throwing your cookies in my face. 
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#149 Posted by Alurvelve (3634 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress: Heck no. I still got like a dozen of them left from last night.
#150 Posted by Mercy_ (92634 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve: Now you're just being spiteful and trying to make me jealous. 
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