#151 Edited by TheGrayGhost (740 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9:

So basically ypu cant disprove it

the first is throat chop . thats not pressure pointing

the seconds vs a nobody big guy . Dd hs like 5 of those

The fct that you could only find 1 pp scn over SEvENty five years of batman really only holds up my point

When the weight he is carrying is specified as 1000 pounds while standard limo weighs 3 TONS I think I need to be the one sying "seriously?"

If it was EXACtlY adapted from the comic show me the scan. otherwise non canon

Batman failed to save Damian! because he couldnt get out of a safe! that must mean talia is superior right!?

lol saying that dd is not bullet timer just because he failed to stop a bullet. heck Batman is not a " quick rusher" beccquse he cant take away the gins of crooks before they fire every single time!

that sort of no limits fallacy just doesnt work

Tim drake has BEATEN cass. thats the sort of thing we call PiS. besides even in his PiSful stalwmate Cass and bats were both drugged and not really at peak

My argument for prep is same

1'. Batman does NOT always carry all his Lol ful tech shown

2. It doesnt really qork vs top draws

3,. DD ppoints him before he can use any of it

LOL how are u even qualified to argue about dD given ypur first sentence was " i dont really read much dD"

and that goes for the vst majority of peoplw here who wouldnt know Matt murdock from lester

tell you what i am really busy for the next 4 days . qhy dont you all build up your arguments till then and i will be back on the 28th expectin much better arguments and better scans becuse the quality is now degrading to " batman can take punches from superman"

until then

Merry Christmas!

#152 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
#153 Posted by GhostRavage (8827 posts) - - Show Bio

@matchesmalone21: He's not, i would say his best is around 1 ton, perhaps slightly above it, like 1.2 tons.

And to be honest, I've never seen Daredevil stalemating Hulk... But i can assure you, if he did it, it was an horrendously written instance...

#154 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8663 posts) - - Show Bio
#155 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8663 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegrayghost: Batman took punch from Superman in Detective Comics 5 and oly have survived due the new version of Venom,but you already knew that...and keep ignoring.

#156 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: In terms of physicality, I'd rank Daredevil to be just about equal to Cap, if not a little more capable.

Moderator
#157 Edited by Wolverine08 (41107 posts) - - Show Bio

@matchesmalone21: He's not, i would say his best is around 1 ton, perhaps slightly above it, like 1.2 tons.

And to be honest, I've never seen Daredevil stalemating Hulk... But i can assure you, if he did it, it was an horrendously written instance...

Steve is a 1 ton enhanced human.

Online
#158 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8663 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: This is not Daredevil in the first scan.......is that guy tha wear suit that resemble Wolverine and classic Daredevil suit. Demolish man... something like that.

#159 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8663 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: Another question @thegrayghost sya Nightwing and Timothy have beaten Cassandra Cain,can you remember where this happened?

About a that feat he flip over a limo,what do you think?

#160 Posted by GhostRavage (8827 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: I think cap has more strength feats than Daredevil, IIRC Ed Brubaker said he's not a peak human but slightly above it. In terms of potential i'd say Caps hands down.

#161 Posted by GhostRavage (8827 posts) - - Show Bio

@matchesmalone21: You're right :), Im looking for strength feats since im just versed with Waid and Bendis's runs, and i don't recall anything with strength besides pushing a limo...

#162 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: I think cap has more strength feats than Daredevil, IIRC Ed Brubaker said he's not a peak human but slightly above it. In terms of potential i'd say Caps hands down.

I wasn't referring to strength feats alone, which Cap is easily more present with, but in terms of the entire package. At least based on their most recent interactions.

Moderator
#163 Edited by GhostRavage (8827 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: Overall Daredevil is more agile and a better acrobat in my eyes. As well as having a faster combat speed. But in physical attributes i think Caps takes it.

@wolverine08 1 ton alone? I thought that if exerting him self he could lift more. And i got it wrong, i meant to say Daredevil as a half toner or slightly above, since i took tons as 1000 pounds, not 2000 pounds :)

#164 Edited by Delcar (104 posts) - - Show Bio

let's be honest, without an extensive prep time, batman is just another ninja, and daredevil had experience fighting against all the hand and elektra

#165 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8663 posts) - - Show Bio

@delcar said:

let's be honest, without an extensive prep time, batman is just another ninja, and daredevil had experience fighting against all the hand and elektra

Batman fight against the League of Assasins and many others secret organizations,aliens,metahumans,clayface ....so your point is? Another ninja with 200 different fighting styles,master detective and strategist/tactician,expert driver,playboy billionaire,philantropist,tech builder (he build some weapons and Brother Eye)...i never seen a ninja like that

Not to mention most of his fights in new 52 are without prep,funny isn't?

#166 Posted by DigitalShooter9 (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9 said:

@kidman560 said:

@digitalshooter9 said:

@kidman560 said:

@digitalshooter9: there is so much wrong with your post that i actually had to go beat my head against a wall for a second

How about you point out the mistakes and correct me... I would really appreciate that.....

lets start off with you saing Batman actually beat Green Lantern or could fight him or whatever you said. now let me lay out what we have here.

Batman is:

Peak Human

knows a bunch of Martial Arts

is the worlds Greatest Detective

Green Lantern is:

A guy who can create anything he imagines

has beaten Superman on more that 2 occasions

and is a planetary threat

now based on these facts there is no way Batman even hurting a Green Lantern is a viable feat. thats problem #1 when you get back to me we will go on to problem # 2

Oh my god.... Did you even read what I wrote? Or do you even know what I am talking about?........

Just to make things clear I was talking about the infamous one punch incident... I am guessing you have never heard of it.... It is an incident where Guy Gardner pisses batman off and challenges him to a fist fight... he then removes his ring to look though. And... he gets one shotted by batman handily... This is a great feat for batman as all green lanterns receive a very intense training in order to receive their rings.... But, I never said batman defeated a GL with their ring on.... It is debatable whether he can with prep though..... But as for this, I think you've banged your head on the wall for no reason... :D

Here are the scans of Guy getting one shotted.......

lol you are using that scan that one... omg im dying... that was... hold on... that was at a time where Guy Gardner was being written as a joke. you are using that. where Guy Garder was

A. Not Ready

B. Not in Fighting capability

C. being written as a joke

lol i take back what i said your post is hopeless

First of all, that WAS canon and what you said about Guy being not ready and not in fighting capability is completely wrong. In fact, guy was the one who attacked batman and if he wasn't feeling ready, he would't have done that... Assuming you have no knowledge on the GL's I would like to tell you that all Gl's are in fighting capability as they HAVE to go through a rough training camp to obtain their ring... AND how do you know that was a joke? Guy is always known for being a douche......

And I am sorry if your favourite character getting humiliated by batman pissed you off. Perhaps you should ameliorate your rage somewhere else, possibly you can continue to hitting your head on the wall....

#167 Edited by DigitalShooter9 (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9:

So basically ypu cant disprove it

the first is throat chop . thats not pressure pointing

Stop bs ing, it is perfectly pressure pointing. Throat chopping come one can kill them as far as I know and Batman wouldn't do that.....

the seconds vs a nobody big guy . Dd hs like 5 of those

The fct that you could only find 1 pp scn over SEvENty five years of batman really only holds up my point

Finding those took me like 2 minutes or something, I am not putting any effort into this whatsoever as you are in complete denial.

When the weight he is carrying is specified as 1000 pounds while standard limo weighs 3 TONS I think I need to be the one sying "seriously?"

Do you think a ceiling wigs less than a limo??? Who said that it was 1000lbs

If it was EXACtlY adapted from the comic show me the scan. otherwise non canon

I don't have the scans for that......

Batman failed to save Damian! because he couldnt get out of a safe! that must mean talia is superior right!?

Damian was killed as a result of his fight with the heretic, what the heck are you talking about?

lol saying that dd is not bullet timer just because he failed to stop a bullet. heck Batman is not a " quick rusher" beccquse he cant take away the gins of crooks before they fire every single time!

that sort of no limits fallacy just doesnt work

Tim drake has BEATEN cass. thats the sort of thing we call PiS. besides even in his PiSful stalwmate Cass and bats were both drugged and not really at peak

My argument for prep is same

1'. Batman does NOT always carry all his Lol ful tech shown

He can absolutely mop the floor with DD with his most basic equipments. An explosive batarang would do the trick. DD might dodge it, but he will get caught in the explosion.

2. It doesnt really qork vs top draws

3,. DD ppoints him before he can use any of it

What do think the DD is? The flash or something? I am telling you, they both have peak human speed and DD is a slight faster thats all. He isn't pointing batman or anything. Batman can counter all of DD's moves as he has the superior skill.

LOL how are u even qualified to argue about dD given ypur first sentence was " i dont really read much dD"

Trust me, I read more DD than you read batman.......

and that goes for the vst majority of peoplw here who wouldnt know Matt murdock from lester

tell you what i am really busy for the next 4 days . qhy dont you all build up your arguments till then and i will be back on the 28th expectin much better arguments and better scans becuse the quality is now degrading to " batman can take punches from superman"

Please, no, just no, despite you being the ONLY one in the entire thread that thinks DD wins, you still act like my arguments are crap. I really don't want to return to this... Especially after you saying that Dd can STOMP BATMAN WHEN HE HAS PREP IF HE DOESN"T USE SONICS. For gods sake, batman with prep will absolutely murderstomp DD. If you didn't know batman is a master at exploiting weaknesses. By the time 15 minutes are over, Batman will not only know about D's blindness and senses, but also will know about his identity, where he lives, who he works with every single other thing. And after that he will use the sonics... But really, batman doesn't need prep nor sonics in reality.... Whatever, It looks like I am wasting my time here, no matter what I bring up, you seem to be in denial. How about we do something like this. For that 4 days, read daredevil, yes right read daredevil. AFTER READING DD, you probably will at least think he can't stalemate the hulk.

until then

Merry Christmas!

#168 Posted by Delcar (104 posts) - - Show Bio
#169 Edited by silent_bomber (1603 posts) - - Show Bio

What constitutes standard gear for Batman? is there an agreed selection?

and no lists of every item he's ever used in the last 70 years please

#170 Edited by VeganDiet (1028 posts) - - Show Bio

Ya know, with all the talk of Daredevil being a bullet time and Batman being only an aim dodger, I feel this scan is fairly relevant.

#171 Edited by matchesmalone21 (8663 posts) - - Show Bio

@delcar: Your logic is funny...Because Batman is way above Dardevil in many categorries,except physical.

#172 Edited by matchesmalone21 (8663 posts) - - Show Bio

@silent_bomber: Basically standart gears is constitute of equipments that are used most,differently than used in prep battles...especial gears.

So the countless kinds of Batrangs,Grapplin Gun,Tasers

#173 Posted by Wolverine08 (41107 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegandiet: Well, Matt has literally batted bullets away using his billy club during the beginning of his career in his Man Without Fear origin story. So I do find that scan constituting of Daredevil somewhat underestimating himself.

Online
#174 Posted by VeganDiet (1028 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegandiet: Well, Matt has literally batted bullets away using his billy club during the beginning of his career in his Man Without Fear origin story. So I do find that scan constituting of Daredevil somewhat underestimating himself.

Oh I'm aware of Daredevil being capable of batting away bullets, but that coupled with this --->

Proves that Daredevil is hardly the bullet swatting machine that guy is trying to paint him as.

#175 Edited by kidman560 (7577 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560 said:

@digitalshooter9 said:

@kidman560 said:

@digitalshooter9 said:

@kidman560 said:

@digitalshooter9: there is so much wrong with your post that i actually had to go beat my head against a wall for a second

How about you point out the mistakes and correct me... I would really appreciate that.....

lets start off with you saing Batman actually beat Green Lantern or could fight him or whatever you said. now let me lay out what we have here.

Batman is:

Peak Human

knows a bunch of Martial Arts

is the worlds Greatest Detective

Green Lantern is:

A guy who can create anything he imagines

has beaten Superman on more that 2 occasions

and is a planetary threat

now based on these facts there is no way Batman even hurting a Green Lantern is a viable feat. thats problem #1 when you get back to me we will go on to problem # 2

Oh my god.... Did you even read what I wrote? Or do you even know what I am talking about?........

Just to make things clear I was talking about the infamous one punch incident... I am guessing you have never heard of it.... It is an incident where Guy Gardner pisses batman off and challenges him to a fist fight... he then removes his ring to look though. And... he gets one shotted by batman handily... This is a great feat for batman as all green lanterns receive a very intense training in order to receive their rings.... But, I never said batman defeated a GL with their ring on.... It is debatable whether he can with prep though..... But as for this, I think you've banged your head on the wall for no reason... :D

Here are the scans of Guy getting one shotted.......

lol you are using that scan that one... omg im dying... that was... hold on... that was at a time where Guy Gardner was being written as a joke. you are using that. where Guy Garder was

A. Not Ready

B. Not in Fighting capability

C. being written as a joke

lol i take back what i said your post is hopeless

First of all, that WAS canon and what you said about Guy being not ready and not in fighting capability is completely wrong. In fact, guy was the one who attacked batman and if he wasn't feeling ready, he would't have done that... Assuming you have no knowledge on the GL's I would like to tell you that all Gl's are in fighting capability as they HAVE to go through a rough training camp to obtain their ring... AND how do you know that was a joke? Guy is always known for being a douche......

And I am sorry if your favourite character getting humiliated by batman pissed you off. Perhaps you should ameliorate your rage somewhere else, possibly you can continue to hitting your head on the wall....

you havent been here very long so its ok i forgive you but

1. my favorite character is Gambit (followed by Hyperion) in fact DD doesnt even make the top 15. less insults more facts

2. Genis-Vell destroying a universe is canon doesnt mean it is

A. Logical

B. Necessary

but it happens

try to prove a point that will matter for example batmans main weapon is stealth but he wont be able to use this against Daredevil because daredevil has radar sense that is just as good if not better than Spider Mans "Spidey Sense"

Daredevil was trained by an expert Martial Artist and is one of the most acrobatic people in Marvel. DD is more agile than nightwing and batman has said the Nightwing is more agile than himself. So DD is more agile than batman

Daredevil has beaten plenty of people that are stronger than him like the kingpin, the Rhino and others.

So i fail to see how he is getting humiliated in this fight but as a new guy i am sure you are smarter and more experienced than me so educate me

#176 Edited by silent_bomber (1603 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@vegandiet: Well, Matt has literally batted bullets away using his billy club during the beginning of his career in his Man Without Fear origin story. So I do find that scan constituting of Daredevil somewhat underestimating himself.

Oh I'm aware of Daredevil being capable of batting away bullets, but that coupled with this --->

Proves that Daredevil is hardly the bullet swatting machine that guy is trying to paint him as.

I think Daredevil has probably batted 20 odd bullets away for every one he missed, at least.

He's been batting bullets away since Stan Lee days

#177 Posted by saiyan_earthling (5441 posts) - - Show Bio

Give Batman prep=Game Over

#178 Edited by matchesmalone21 (8663 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9 said:

@kidman560 said:

@digitalshooter9 said:

@kidman560 said:

@digitalshooter9 said:

@kidman560 said:

@digitalshooter9: there is so much wrong with your post that i actually had to go beat my head against a wall for a second

How about you point out the mistakes and correct me... I would really appreciate that.....

lets start off with you saing Batman actually beat Green Lantern or could fight him or whatever you said. now let me lay out what we have here.

Batman is:

Peak Human

knows a bunch of Martial Arts

is the worlds Greatest Detective

Green Lantern is:

A guy who can create anything he imagines

has beaten Superman on more that 2 occasions

and is a planetary threat

now based on these facts there is no way Batman even hurting a Green Lantern is a viable feat. thats problem #1 when you get back to me we will go on to problem # 2

Oh my god.... Did you even read what I wrote? Or do you even know what I am talking about?........

Just to make things clear I was talking about the infamous one punch incident... I am guessing you have never heard of it.... It is an incident where Guy Gardner pisses batman off and challenges him to a fist fight... he then removes his ring to look though. And... he gets one shotted by batman handily... This is a great feat for batman as all green lanterns receive a very intense training in order to receive their rings.... But, I never said batman defeated a GL with their ring on.... It is debatable whether he can with prep though..... But as for this, I think you've banged your head on the wall for no reason... :D

Here are the scans of Guy getting one shotted.......

lol you are using that scan that one... omg im dying... that was... hold on... that was at a time where Guy Gardner was being written as a joke. you are using that. where Guy Garder was

A. Not Ready

B. Not in Fighting capability

C. being written as a joke

lol i take back what i said your post is hopeless

First of all, that WAS canon and what you said about Guy being not ready and not in fighting capability is completely wrong. In fact, guy was the one who attacked batman and if he wasn't feeling ready, he would't have done that... Assuming you have no knowledge on the GL's I would like to tell you that all Gl's are in fighting capability as they HAVE to go through a rough training camp to obtain their ring... AND how do you know that was a joke? Guy is always known for being a douche......

And I am sorry if your favourite character getting humiliated by batman pissed you off. Perhaps you should ameliorate your rage somewhere else, possibly you can continue to hitting your head on the wall....

you havent been here very long so its ok i forgive you but

1. my favorite character is Gambit (followed by Hyperion) in fact DD doesnt even make the top 15. less insults more facts

2. Genis-Vell destroying a universe is canon doesnt mean it is

A. Logical

B. Necessary

but it happens

try to prove a point that will matter for example batmans main weapon is stealth but he wont be able to use this against Daredevil because daredevil has radar sense that is just as good if not better than Spider Mans "Spidey Sense"

Daredevil was trained by an expert Martial Artist and is one of the most acrobatic people in Marvel. DD is more agile than nightwing and batman has said the Nightwing is more agile than himself. So DD is more agile than batman

Daredevil has beaten plenty of people that are stronger than him like the kingpin, the Rhino and others.

So i fail to see how he is getting humiliated in this fight but as a new guy i am sure you are smarter and more experienced than me so educate me

1) Stealth as main weapon? During New 52 he barely use his stealth abilities preferring straight up combat.I understand that is only an example.

2) So as Batman is trained by several martial artists in use of several types of weapons.

3) Since the beginning of his new solo title Nightwing demonstrated acrobatic skill on par with Dardevil,even matching with Saiko.

4) He's not getting humiliated in this fight. Daredevil has the speed and radar sense as advantage,but Batman also have advantages as the batsuit's durability,fighting skills and detective skills,which could use to deduct Matt skills.

#179 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8663 posts) - - Show Bio

@saiyan_earthling: He doesn't need prep....Batman have already defeated enemies without it. This a old and dumb thing.

#180 Edited by TheGrayGhost (740 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

Eh I really cant afford to make a long post now and I said i Would be back on 28 but since moderators are getting involved

i would like to point out that I was saying sARcastically DD could stalemate hulk without venom .

yes sir could you please explain to matchesmalone the meaning of PIS as he is now claiming batman can take punches from Superman (which is just bad writing even with venom)

the hulk dd fight happened in millers early issues circa 170

and now sir I too have complaints to make that matchesmalone is using arguments like batman wins because he is "international" while dd is street level. do you think batman beats spiderman then?

digitalshooter is just angry. he is using movies as proof now

a limo weighs 3 tons

even considering he lifted 1.5 tons, there were at least 3 people inside

batman has failed to lift 600 pounds in canon

And to the all those people who are posting scans of DD getting shot and saying he isnt a bullet timer....do you want me to post scans of Batman getting shot and saying he is not an aim dodger?

Heck for that matter do you want me to post scans of Harley hitting Batman on the head and then point out

1. Batman is NOT even peak human, he cant even dodge a mallet let alone bullets lol

2. LOL Batman gonna have his ass handed to him by the likes of Shiva and Deathstroke if he cant even handle Harley .lol Batman is useless!

There is a reason I am counting HIGH END CONSISTENT FEATS ONLY. Which is why I am disregarding Batman's one nerve strike in a blue moon vs some nobody in comparision to DD's far greater proficiency vs the likes of Logan and Punisher

I am not lowballing Bruce at all. I am giving him his exact stats as shown in comics. Bruce same as Cap is a peak human, in fact one of the best, and better than 99% other humans in DC

However there is the absolute elite one percent containing the likes of Cass Cain, Matt and Elektra which is vastly superior to even Comic book peak humans and have the feats to prove they are superior too

Oh and the guy who was saying Batman's armour was indestructible, heres Talon breaking it against a brick wall

and NOT a knife at least not on that instance. If you have read CoO , you will know what Batman's suit looks like after that wall smash

so for all of Batman's tech and 'invulnerable suits' his tech really doesnt hold up that well vs top tiers

and please could you ask these two to actaully show canon feats rather " i ASSUME.....cause batman"

that would be all

until the 28th

merry christmas

#181 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

Eh I really cant afford to make a long post now and I said i Would be back on 28 but since moderators are getting involved

i would like to point out that I was saying sARcastically DD could stalemate hulk without venom .

yes sir could you please explain to matchesmalone the meaning of PIS as he is now claiming batman can take punches from Superman (which is just bad writing even with venom)

the hulk dd fight happened in millers early issues circa 170

and now sir I too have complaints to make that matchesmalone is using arguments like batman wins because he is "international" while dd is street level. do you think batman beats spiderman then?

digitalshooter is just angry. he is using movies as proof now

a limo weighs 3 tons

even considering he lifted 1.5 tons, there were at least 3 people inside

batman hs failed to lift 600 pounds in canon

and please could you ask these two to actaully show canon feats rather " i ASSUME.....cause batman"

that would be all

until the 28th

merry christmas

Alrighty then!

You made a claim that Daredevil could stalemate Hulk with venom? As in the same venom that Bane utilizes? You did so sarcastically, but to what end? I'm not sure if you were just fooling around or trying to aggravate the other user here :/

And yes, you would be correct in stating that Batman could NEVER take a hit from Superman on his best day. It's not even a fair fight, despite how you look at it. To add onto that, I don't know what you guys mean by Batman being "international"? To answer your following question no, Spider-Man would walk all over Batman, prep or not. Spider-Man can't even be considered street-level at many points and if he was, he would be at the top of the ladder. Batman couldn't hope to reach those heights.

As for this limo feat, I'm not sure what you guys are referring to. Could you provide a scan of Daredevil interacting with the limo to back up said strength feat? Additionally, Batman has canonically lifted/supported one thousand pounds, stated his leg press is roughly 2500 pounds and supported debris weighing well over a ton:

Hope this helps, Merry Christmas!

Moderator
#182 Posted by TheGrayGhost (740 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: sorry ...im on my iphone so ignore the spelling errors

Firstly i made no such claims. the other people were making absurd claims like batman can beat DD because he can take punches from supes . so i sarcastically replied if that sort of logic. works DD jas stalemated hulk, wothout any steroids too!

i wanted to draw yoir attention to some of the rubbish arguments flying about including batman wins because he is "international"

i absolutely disgree with the stupidity of both this and the superman claims

which is why I was using hulk to showcase i dont count that sort of PIS

also feats from movies re being used so , I wanted you to point out thats not allowed

the limo feat is from bendis' run when at least 3 people are buying drugs in a limo (mgh) and dd flips it over on its hood from an erect postion

batman has canonically failed to lift 600 pounds

another complaint, that 1000 pound feat looks pre crisis. people are switching between pre and post crisis feats at will

batman has also "said" 10 eyed man is the most dngerous in the world.

statements just made on panel without feats to prove them should not be accepted

even if we do count that, a leg press is not the same as a standing lift

which is something batman failed to do. canonically failing to lift 600 pounds

DD has from a standing position flipped over a limo

thats 3 tons vs 1000 pounds at best

Sorry but this has GOT to be my last post for a while

the limo scan links are in previous posts

merry christmas!

#183 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegrayghost: Indeed, the first lifting feat, in which he supports the ceiling is from 1979, a few years before the crisis occurred if I remember correctly. The other in which he supports the debris is from Detective Comics #617, which released in the 90's. Now, you can attempt to dispute that it was "pre crisis", not post crisis and what not. Although, Batman is quite possibly the most consistent character among the reboots and lacks any real notable changes to his history as opposed to characters like Superman, Aquaman or Green Lantern.

So truthfully, while you may attempt to dispute his feats, I'd argue he's been far more consistent with his strength than Daredevil has ever been, aside from a scan in which he was tossing around a 400 lb barbell with ease and your proposed limo lifting feat which I'd still love to see a scan for.

Oh and just as a heads up, I'm not backing up either character here nor am I taking sides. I am merely attempting to clear up the confusion. Again, enjoy your Christmas!

Moderator
#184 Edited by matchesmalone21 (8663 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

Eh I really cant afford to make a long post now and I said i Would be back on 28 but since moderators are getting involved

i would like to point out that I was saying sARcastically DD could stalemate hulk without venom .

yes sir could you please explain to matchesmalone the meaning of PIS as he is now claiming batman can take punches from Superman (which is just bad writing even with venom)

the hulk dd fight happened in millers early issues circa 170

and now sir I too have complaints to make that matchesmalone is using arguments like batman wins because he is "international" while dd is street level. do you think batman beats spiderman then?

digitalshooter is just angry. he is using movies as proof now

a limo weighs 3 tons

even considering he lifted 1.5 tons, there were at least 3 people inside

batman has failed to lift 600 pounds in canon

And to the all those people who are posting scans of DD getting shot and saying he isnt a bullet timer....do you want me to post scans of Batman getting shot and saying he is not an aim dodger?

Heck for that matter do you want me to post scans of Harley hitting Batman on the head and then point out

1. Batman is NOT even peak human, he cant even dodge a mallet let alone bullets lol

2. LOL Batman gonna have his ass handed to him by the likes of Shiva and Deathstroke if he cant even handle Harley .lol Batman is useless!

There is a reason I am counting HIGH END CONSISTENT FEATS ONLY. Which is why I am disregarding Batman's one nerve strike in a blue moon vs some nobody in comparision to DD's far greater proficiency vs the likes of Logan and Punisher

I am not lowballing Bruce at all. I am giving him his exact stats as shown in comics. Bruce same as Cap is a peak human, in fact one of the best, and better than 99% other humans in DC

However there is the absolute elite one percent containing the likes of Cass Cain, Matt and Elektra which is vastly superior to even Comic book peak humans and have the feats to prove they are superior too

Oh and the guy who was saying Batman's armour was indestructible, heres Talon breaking it against a brick wall

and NOT a knife at least not on that instance. If you have read CoO , you will know what Batman's suit looks like after that wall smash

so for all of Batman's tech and 'invulnerable suits' his tech really doesnt hold up that well vs top tiers

and please could you ask these two to actaully show canon feats rather " i ASSUME.....cause batman"

that would be all

until the 28th

merry christmas

@deranged_midget: Can you talk with him,he's starting to derailing this thread and misleading people with nosenses.

@thegrayghost: No one says the armor is indestructible...I've said that 3 times to and you keep misleading people. I only said the armor is highly resistant against fire,acid,bullets and eletric based attacks and also I' ve posted scans to prove.

Also I've said the armor was pierced by materials that are harder than the suit itself...I've to repost my previous comments..so can you stop to derailling this thread?

#185 Edited by matchesmalone21 (8663 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegrayghost said:

@deranged_midget:

Eh I really cant afford to make a long post now and I said i Would be back on 28 but since moderators are getting involved

i would like to point out that I was saying sARcastically DD could stalemate hulk without venom .

yes sir could you please explain to matchesmalone the meaning of PIS as he is now claiming batman can take punches from Superman (which is just bad writing even with venom)

the hulk dd fight happened in millers early issues circa 170

and now sir I too have complaints to make that matchesmalone is using arguments like batman wins because he is "international" while dd is street level. do you think batman beats spiderman then?

digitalshooter is just angry. he is using movies as proof now

a limo weighs 3 tons

even considering he lifted 1.5 tons, there were at least 3 people inside

batman hs failed to lift 600 pounds in canon

and please could you ask these two to actaully show canon feats rather " i ASSUME.....cause batman"

that would be all

until the 28th

merry christmas

Alrighty then!

You made a claim that Daredevil could stalemate Hulk with venom? As in the same venom that Bane utilizes? You did so sarcastically, but to what end? I'm not sure if you were just fooling around or trying to aggravate the other user here :/

And yes, you would be correct in stating that Batman could NEVER take a hit from Superman on his best day. It's not even a fair fight, despite how you look at it. To add onto that, I don't know what you guys mean by Batman being "international"? To answer your following question no, Spider-Man would walk all over Batman, prep or not. Spider-Man can't even be considered street-level at many points and if he was, he would be at the top of the ladder. Batman couldn't hope to reach those heights.

As for this limo feat, I'm not sure what you guys are referring to. Could you provide a scan of Daredevil interacting with the limo to back up said strength feat? Additionally, Batman has canonically lifted/supported one thousand pounds, stated his leg press is roughly 2500 pounds and supported debris weighing well over a ton:

Hope this helps, Merry Christmas!

Mate his trying to misleading people since the first post. I never say Batman wins because his ''international'' or beat Spiderman (something I never says in this thread,you can look in my previous posts),what I tried to says Batman is a really experienced character dealing with small crime,to interantion crime and alien treats something he does in a common day.

I keep posting plenty of canon feats (You can see in previous pages) and he keeps ignoring.

#186 Posted by DigitalShooter9 (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

Eh I really cant afford to make a long post now and I said i Would be back on 28 but since moderators are getting involved

i would like to point out that I was saying sARcastically DD could stalemate hulk without venom .

yes sir could you please explain to matchesmalone the meaning of PIS as he is now claiming batman can take punches from Superman (which is just bad writing even with venom)

the hulk dd fight happened in millers early issues circa 170

and now sir I too have complaints to make that matchesmalone is using arguments like batman wins because he is "international" while dd is street level. do you think batman beats spiderman then?

digitalshooter is just angry. he is using movies as proof now

a limo weighs 3 tons

even considering he lifted 1.5 tons, there were at least 3 people inside

batman has failed to lift 600 pounds in canon

Are you trolling with us or something? how about YOU tell me how it is canon... Which issue? Whose run?

And to the all those people who are posting scans of DD getting shot and saying he isnt a bullet timer....do you want me to post scans of Batman getting shot and saying he is not an aim dodger? Go for it......

Heck for that matter do you want me to post scans of Harley hitting Batman on the head and then point out

Didn't you say she only does that because of PIS??

1. Batman is NOT even peak human, he cant even dodge a mallet let alone bullets Again, it is called PIS, as you even said yourself.

You don't even know batman.....

2. LOL Batman gonna have his ass handed to him by the likes of Shiva and Deathstroke if he cant even handle Harley .lol Batman is useless! He can't handle harley? I am beginning to question your slightest knowledge of batman...

FYI- Batman never gets his ass handed to him by DS, in fact, he always gives DS HELL whenever they fight. he even one shotted death stroke on one instance for gods sake... get your shit together. You don't even know batman(even DD for that matter) so stop lowballing him. Batman is useless? DD is BLIND for god's sake... You know I like DD but right now you are dis interesting me from him, honest. You think batman is useless, tell me, does DD have 1/100th the resources batman does? DD's super powers are so sad, he is basically spiderman without anything except the spider sense.... Batman is a core member of the Justice League, what is DD again? DD has the lamest villains ever (except bullseye and kingpin). He barely wins against kingpin who peter parker crippled so easily in the prison fight, it is not even funny. What villains does DD have again? Stilt man? lady bullseye? the owl? purple man? typhoid mary? the jester?(failed joker ripoff, lol), leap frog?, ani men?, man-bull?, mandrill?. "A hero is only as good as the villain he faces" As they say...

Plus batman can win against DD so fast it isn't even funny, all your arguments so far relate to real world physics who never apply to comic books. You know if real world physics applied to the comic book world, there would be a massive earth destroying explosion every time superman punched darkseid.......

There is a reason I am counting HIGH END CONSISTENT FEATS ONLY. Which is why I am disregarding Batman's one nerve strike in a blue moon vs some nobody in comparision to DD's far greater proficiency vs the likes of Logan and Punisher. If Dd can point Logan so can batman, I don't see your point...

I am not lowballing Bruce at all. I am giving him his exact stats as shown in comics. Bruce same as Cap is a peak human, in fact one of the best, and better than 99% other humans in DC

However there is the absolute elite one percent containing the likes of Cass Cain, Matt and Elektra which is vastly superior to even Comic book peak humans and have the feats to prove they are superior too- Take Matt out of that list...

Oh and the guy who was saying Batman's armour was indestructible, heres Talon breaking it against a brick wall

and NOT a knife at least not on that instance. If you have read CoO , you will know what Batman's suit looks like after that wall smash

so for all of Batman's tech and 'invulnerable suits' his tech really doesnt hold up that well vs top tiers

DD isn't top tier for that matter......

and please could you ask these two to actaully show canon feats rather " i ASSUME.....cause batman"

that would be all

until the 28th

merry christmas

#187 Posted by Delcar (104 posts) - - Show Bio

#188 Posted by DigitalShooter9 (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@delcar said:

Just as canon as what you posted......With better art style and a lot more accuracy...

#191 Posted by patrat18 (9566 posts) - - Show Bio

With prep Batman stomps. Without he wins 8/10.

#192 Posted by TheGrayGhost (740 posts) - - Show Bio

DISCLAIMER:

1. All quotes used here are directly as quoted by you. I literally copy pasted your own quotes. The relevant comment numbers have been given

2. Since you objected to my use of "real world logic" , I'm only using "comic book logic" now, ie I am not making any assumptions but directly using scans from comics

Lets start at the very beginning

SPEED

Comment no 50

DD might have superhuman senses but he has normal human speed (not even peak human) while batman has peak human speed.........So DD isn't outspending batman or dodging all his attacks. They are about equally matched in that area

First you said Batman's speed= DD's speed and only DD's superhuman senses will allow him to keep up

Comment no 111

Assuming both Batman and Daredevil are peak human, their speed are roughly equal.

At this point you are saying Batman's speed= DD's speed . However

Comment no 130

Your first flaw is to think that DD wins because of his speed. DD might be faster, but there is no whole lot of difference. If DD dodges bullets, so does batman. Both can dodge each other and DD having slightly superior speed is balanced out by batmans slightly superior strength and more superior skill

Comment no 167

What do think the DD is? The flash or something? I am telling you, they both have peak human speed and DD is a slight faster thats all.

And now you think DD is faster.

So we already know that you are prone to changing your mind and aren't really sure of DD's actual speed, seemingly changing your mind halfway through the thread

STRENGTH

Comment no 50

you are saying that matt(whose physical stats are inferior to bruce's)can do it?

First off, he once knocked Guy Gardner (Who was a green lantern and received intense green lantern training) out with one punch. I know it is funny and all but it is canon and when you actually think about it, All GL's receive training that is more intense than DD. I really don't know how DD can get smacked by Batman and not get KO'd.

Comment no 58

But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by both batman and captain america

At this point you are saying Batman can "smack him and KO him". Then you note that DD's physicals are outclassed by Bruce.

Comment no 130

Your first flaw is to think that DD wins because of his speed. DD might be faster, but there is no whole lot of difference. If DD dodges bullets, so does batman. Both can dodge each other and DD having slightly superior speed is balanced out by batmansslightly superior strength and more superior skill

You trying to make arguments on their h2h is more than all right.

But once again you change your mind halfway through the thread , but that's not really surprising anymore is it? we already know that you are unsure, heck you have NO IDEA about DD's actual stats and are just making it all up as you listen to OTHER PEOPLE tell you about DD. We already know you don't read DD and are just basing your stats for him on approximations of what you have heard.

In this case you went from DD being outclassed and "smacked" by Batman to Batman being his slight superior and me making an argument on their h2h being "more than all right"

COMPARISON WITH OTHER CHARACTERS

Comment no 55

Cap is enhanced, MATT isn't how can he possibly be stronger faster and more durable? Dude are you trolling?

You are saying DD is slower than Cap now.

Comment no 58

But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by both batman and captain america

And now you are saying Batman and Cap Am outclass him physically

Comment no 129

Batman can stalemate cap in h2h.... It has been accepted by a lot of people that their fights could go either way...

But here you are saying Batman= Captain America! Remember this is your claim!


Mathematically substituting Batman= Captain America in comment no 58, we get

Comment no 58

But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by both batman and Batman

OR

Comment no 58

But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by batman

However we already know that you have NO IDEA about DD's actual speed and are just relying on other's opinions to get a ROUGH ESTIMATE of waht it actually is. We already know you have a fickle mind and are prone to changing your own opinion. So now lets look at a later post.

Comment no 130

Your first flaw is to think that DD wins because of his speed. DD might be faster, but there is no whole lot of difference. If DD dodges bullets, so does batman. Both can dodge each other and DD having slightly superior speed is balanced out by batmans slightly superior strength and more superior skill

Substituting Batman= Captain America here, we get

Comment no 130

Your first flaw is to think that DD wins because of his speed. DD might be faster, but there is no whole lot of difference. If DD dodges bullets, so does Captain America .Both can dodge each other and DD having slightly superior speed is balanced out byCaptain America s slightly superior strength and more superior skill

Remember these are YOUR claims not mine!

Now lets take a closer look at the Cap and Batman comparision

Comment no 82

Your another flaw is to think that batman and captain america are the same. Now, one could argue that they are, but they really are a lot different. First of all, captain america is no where as skilled as batman. Batman is basically a master in every singe form of martial arts. DD might toy with cap(Which is too unlikely in reality) but he cannot do the same thing to someone who actually knows how to fight with 127 different martial art styles.

Here you say Batman wins vs DD because he is > DD

Then you say that DD might toy with Cap meaning DD> Cap

So basically you are saying Batman is superior to Cap as

Batman> DD--------------(1)

DD > Cap-------------------(2)

Using (1) and (2) we get,

Batman> Cap

This directly contradicts the following statement

Comment no 129

Batman can stalemate cap in h2h.... It has been accepted by a lot of people that their fights could go either way...

The only thing consistent about you is your inconsistency. Pity you used "might beat Cap" rather than surely beat Cap. Then I would have nailed you on that too. Now moving on

Comment no 96

He hasn't received about a quarter of the martial arts training bruce did, neither has he stalemated top martial artists in marvel universe as far as I know.

Well clearly you dont know much, do you? Here's a list off the top of my head BESIDES the Spidey Villains I already listed

Wolverine, Captain America, Punisher, Beast,Black Widow, Elektra, Bullseye, Iron Fist till he used IF, Black Panther, Taskmaster, Sabretooth......

Comment no 129

When has he beaten Cap? As I have said, batman can stalemate cap whereas DD can give him a good fight... As for wolverine, Dd can hold him off at most for a limited time until he gets torn apart.

Well ignoring some of the other inconsistencies, what you said is really NOT supported by comics AT ALL..just to give two examples:

And oh, here's the Wolverine bloodlusted and mind controlled by Hydra fight. Basically him and dozens of other ninjas invade Matt's house.....and naturally lose despite Matt HOLDING BACK

After the impaling , Wolverine of course regains his mind blah blah... if you want the whole fight just ask me. It involves DD kicking Wolvie through the walls of a room and fighting off dozens of ninjas at the same time .

SOME OTHER MISCONCEPTIONS

Comment no 112

Again, you provide no evidence and just make up feats for DD.... Plus, I really don't see how DD can take on any Spiderman villains assuming he get's his ass handed to him by the fat ass king pin quite regularly....

Kingpin was/is a Spiderman villain......

And if you call the man who ripped off people's limbs with handshakes and crushed their skulls with his bare hands a "fat ass" ......wow I mean. I dunno . Just read Marvel. Once in a while. In fact just read anything other than Batman once in a while...

Comment no 50

First off, he once knocked Guy Gardner (Who was a green lantern and received intense green lantern training) out with one punch. I know it is funny and all but it is canon and when you actually think about it, All GL's receive training that is more intense than DD. I really don't know how DD can get smacked by Batman and not get KO'd.

The fact that you think Guy Gardner is a skilled fighter.......wow. Just wow. Read some DC stuff too man.

#193 Edited by TheGrayGhost (740 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9:

Well now that we have already established that you are unsure/ have NO IDEA about DD's feats and are just going by hearsay, and also that you have not read anything other than Batman in your entire life, not to mention the fact that you are fickle and prone to changing your opinion at will, often directly contradicting yourself in the process.......let us take a look at your latest pile of fanboy inspired rubbish.

Are you trolling with us or something? how about YOU tell me how it is canon... Which issue? Whose run?

What? You made the claim that its non canon not me. Its your job to prove why its non canon. I am assuming its canon just like I am assuming everything else posted on this thread is canon. Why should it NOT be canon other than you claiming it to be? Batman is the most published character in either Marvel or DC so the overwhelming probability is that it is canon somewhere sometime. Only you THINK its non canon. Pray tell me why you THINK its non canon? You are the one making the claim. Its your job to prove it. If you cant, the feat stands and it IS CANON. Or do you have NO idea how debates work? Your claim. Your job to prove it.

Didn't you say she only does that because of PIS??

Again, it is called PIS, as you even said yourself.

Wow...I think you have some self esteem issues here. Its all right. Take a deep breath. Calm down. Thats EXACTLY what I said. See? You were right. Stop worrying. You are NOT always wrong.

You don't even know batman.....

He can't handle harley? I am beginning to question your slightest knowledge of batman...

And there you go....just when I was praising you. Tell me one thing. Do you or do you NOT understand simple English? Because if you do, why in the hell would you think I was suggesting Harley could beat Batman?

Again since you wont even understand this sentence let me rewrite that for you explaining what I actually meant.

Harley CANNOT touch Batman. Just like villains like jester and bullets CANNOT even touch Matt. But yes things like that HAVE happened in comics.

But I am NOT COUNTING STUFF LIKE THAT!

So I am asking you to NOT count stuff like the likes of jester hitting Matt just like I am not counting the likes of Harley hitting Bruce . These are low showings and products of inconsistent/bad writing

FYI- Batman never gets his ass handed to him by DS, in fact, he always gives DS HELL whenever they fight. he even one shotted death stroke on one instance for gods sake... get your shit together. You don't even know batman(even DD for that matter) so stop lowballing him. Batman is useless? DD is BLIND for god's sake... You know I like DD but right now you are dis interesting me from him, honest. You think batman is useless, tell me, does DD have 1/100th the resources batman does? DD's super powers are so sad, he is basically spiderman without anything except the spider sense.... Batman is a core member of the Justice League, what is DD again? DD has the lamest villains ever (except bullseye and kingpin). He barely wins against kingpin who peter parker crippled so easily in the prison fight, it is not even funny. What villains does DD have again? Stilt man? lady bullseye? the owl? purple man? typhoid mary? the jester?(failed joker ripoff, lol), leap frog?, ani men?, man-bull?, mandrill?. "A hero is only as good as the villain he faces" As they say...

So wait you are saying Batman wins because he has cooler villains?

Again ....how does Batman being a member of the JL affect this fight in any way? Or are you saying the same thing as Matches Malone and saying he wins because he is "international"?

So you are saying Matt sucks because he is "barely" able to do what Spider Man does? What Spider Man does. Are you sure this is the same spiderman that we are talking about? The one that is leagues above Daredevil, Batman or 99% other street levellers?

If its the same guy, I count that as a point in favour of Matt even if he is "barely able to do what Spider Man does". "Barely able to do what Spiderman does" is really out of Bruce's league.

Even ignoring all the PIS where Matt doesnt really use his speed and gets into grappling matches with Kingpin, he ususally still wins these days.

But really the best part of your post was "Batman wins because he has cooler villains and he is in the Justice League"

So basically you are saying Batman wins because he is "cooler". Wow really the impartial and logical debater, arent you?

And oh given your poor understanding of English, that last bit was sarcasm.

If Dd can point Logan so can batman, I don't see your point...

Nope. Batman cant pressure point Logan unless he has feats for doing it vs opponents on that level.

However there is the absolute elite one percent containing the likes of Cass Cain, Matt and Elektra which is vastly superior to even Comic book peak humans and have the feats to prove they are superior too- Take Matt out of that list...

Nope shant. Matt has all the feats required to be on that list. Bruce doesnt. He comes in the next list. The Peak human list. Bruce just doesnt have the feats to put him alongside the absolute elite. He does have more fanboys than all the rest put together though.

Stop bs ing, it is perfectly pressure pointing. Throat chopping come one can kill them as far as I know and Batman wouldn't do that.....

Oh noes! That can't possibly happen! If he did THAT the person would die! That cant possibly happen!(sob) My hero can't kill....

Thats a throat chop same as Ric Flair chopping a man in the ring saying "whoooo!" Except its to the throat. Obviously. And no it doesnt kill unless you are really looking to kill. Ever watched a game of soccer? Even Basketball? Hands and wrists clash with the throats of players many a time. Nobody dies. Heck Batman has hit people in the throat plenty of times himself.

Finding those took me like 2 minutes or something, I am not putting any effort into this whatsoever as you are in complete denial.

By all means search all you want. Batman has not pressure pointed anyone even remotely important and I seriously doubt the one or two guys that he did Pressure point even have a wiki entry. ON THE DC WIKIA

Do you think a ceiling wigs less than a limo??? Who said that it was 1000lbs

Well firstly he only held a couple of beams and not the entire thing and secondly

Doing some calculations:

New Roof:

Timberline shingle 73lb / 33.3 ft sq = 2.21 lb/sq ft (

Lifetime Timberline Natural Shadow Weathered Wood Shingles-0603737 at The Home Depot

)

3/4 plywood = 2.3 lb sq ft (

What is weight per square foot of Plywood

)

2000 sq ft roof x (2.3 lbs sq ft plywood + 2.21 Shingle) = 9020 lbs

Original Roof:

Wet Cedar shakes weigh 3lb/ sq ft x 2000 sq ft = 6000 lb

Dry cedar shakes weigh 2 lbs/ sq ft = 4000 Lb

Even taking an upper limit , its 6000 pounds or still less than 3 tons

But thats beside the point really as clearly those roofs didnt weigh all that much given Batman's failure to bench 600 pounds thus directly contradicting our ASSUMPTIONS.

Its assumptions vs facts stated on panel. Yeah I am gonna go with facts here.

He can absolutely mop the floor with DD with his most basic equipments. An explosive batarang would do the trick. DD might dodge it, but he will get caught in the explosion.

DD bats away bullets consistently. Why the hell would he dodge it? He would send it flying back and kill Bruce with his own Batarang

What do think the DD is? The flash or something? I am telling you, they both have peak human speed and DD is a slight faster thats all. He isn't pointing batman or anything. Batman can counter all of DD's moves as he has the superior skill.

According to comics when written consistently with regards to the characters true speed, DD toys with Cap and one shots Logan before he can even steady his claws.

As for Bruce.....

So yeah when comics are written consistently( and by that I mean as close to real life logic as possible) and characters display their actual speeds which they are displaying in their own titles, the difference between bullet timers and aim dodgers is huge and yes , for all intents and purposes they could be Flash level fast RELATIVE to an aim dodger

Please, no, just no, despite you being the ONLY one in the entire thread that thinks DD wins, you still act like my arguments are crap. I really don't want to return to this... Especially after you saying that Dd can STOMP BATMAN WHEN HE HAS PREP IF HE DOESN"T USE SONICS. For gods sake, batman with prep will absolutely murderstomp DD. If you didn't know batman is a master at exploiting weaknesses. By the time 15 minutes are over, Batman will not only know about D's blindness and senses, but also will know about his identity, where he lives, who he works with every single other thing. And after that he will use the sonics... But really, batman doesn't need prep nor sonics in reality.... Whatever, It looks like I am wasting my time here, no matter what I bring up, you seem to be in denial. How about we do something like this. For that 4 days, read daredevil, yes right read daredevil. AFTER READING DD, you probably will at least think he can't stalemate the hulk.

As I have already pointed out, most people here wouldnt know Lester from Wilson Fisk or Ms Natchois , so me being the only one saying DD wins doesnt really bother me at all.

Exploiting "weaknesses". Again your English skills are questionable. Read the OP again.

Round 1:

No one is aware of who they're fighting (surprise fight basically)

Each get 10 min of prep

Win by K.O

Standard gear

Round 2:

Both are aware of each others fighting skills (only)

Each get 15 min of prep

Win by K.O/nearly killed

Daredevil is using a staff from his billy club

Batman has 1 smoke grenade, 3 batarangs and a grappling gun

Fight takes place in gladiator arena in Rome.

GO!

So there you go. Nobody knows each others' weaknesses and Batman has what he has. DD curbstomp both rounds

And lastly knowing DD's secret identity isnt really something important. Heck even the FBI knew his identity, That hardly gave any of them an advantage. And oh if you would actually reread what I actually wrote, you would find that I called the DD Hulk fight PIS.

IN CONCLUSION

I THINK you are incapable of looking at this debate objectively having never read DD and being a huge Batman fan. You frequently change your own mind about the character's feats and do not even attempt to justify your claims with scans and proof

In fact your reaction to me posting a scan was saying it was non canon and then pretty much admitting you said so despite never actually having read the comic. This is the most damning evidence of all. Why would you say it was non canon without even pretending to know something about it?

Unless you had already made up your mind. Which is backed by statements like Batman winning because he has " cooler villains"

With all due respect I think you are a fanboy and are not even pretending to look at this debate objectively .

Now that I have shown the many inconsistencies in your posts, I think its in the best interests of all if you could just quietly leave this debate and let actual neutrals debate.

Good Bye

#194 Posted by DigitalShooter9 (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

DISCLAIMER:

1. All quotes used here are directly as quoted by you. I literally copy pasted your own quotes. The relevant comment numbers have been given

2. Since you objected to my use of "real world logic" , I'm only using "comic book logic" now, ie I am not making any assumptions but directly using scans from comics

Lets start at the very beginning

SPEED

Comment no 50

DD might have superhuman senses but he has normal human speed (not even peak human) while batman has peak human speed.........So DD isn't outspending batman or dodging all his attacks. They are about equally matched in that area

First you said Batman's speed= DD's speed and only DD's superhuman senses will allow him to keep up

Comment no 111

Assuming both Batman and Daredevil are peak human, their speed are roughly equal.

At this point you are saying Batman's speed= DD's speed . However

Comment no 130

Your first flaw is to think that DD wins because of his speed. DD might be faster, but there is no whole lot of difference. If DD dodges bullets, so does batman. Both can dodge each other and DD having slightly superior speed is balanced out by batmans slightly superior strength and more superior skill

Comment no 167

What do think the DD is? The flash or something? I am telling you, they both have peak human speed and DD is a slight faster thats all.

And now you think DD is faster.

So we already know that you are prone to changing your mind and aren't really sure of DD's actual speed, seemingly changing your mind halfway through the thread

STRENGTH

Comment no 50

you are saying that matt(whose physical stats are inferior to bruce's)can do it?

First off, he once knocked Guy Gardner (Who was a green lantern and received intense green lantern training) out with one punch. I know it is funny and all but it is canon and when you actually think about it, All GL's receive training that is more intense than DD. I really don't know how DD can get smacked by Batman and not get KO'd.

Comment no 58

But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by both batman and captain america

At this point you are saying Batman can "smack him and KO him". Then you note that DD's physicals are outclassed by Bruce.

Comment no 130

Your first flaw is to think that DD wins because of his speed. DD might be faster, but there is no whole lot of difference. If DD dodges bullets, so does batman. Both can dodge each other and DD having slightly superior speed is balanced out by batmansslightly superior strength and more superior skill

You trying to make arguments on their h2h is more than all right.

But once again you change your mind halfway through the thread , but that's not really surprising anymore is it? we already know that you are unsure, heck you have NO IDEA about DD's actual stats and are just making it all up as you listen to OTHER PEOPLE tell you about DD. We already know you don't read DD and are just basing your stats for him on approximations of what you have heard.

In this case you went from DD being outclassed and "smacked" by Batman to Batman being his slight superior and me making an argument on their h2h being "more than all right"

COMPARISON WITH OTHER CHARACTERS

Comment no 55

Cap is enhanced, MATT isn't how can he possibly be stronger faster and more durable? Dude are you trolling?

You are saying DD is slower than Cap now.

Comment no 58

But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by both batman and captain america

And now you are saying Batman and Cap Am outclass him physically

Comment no 129

Batman can stalemate cap in h2h.... It has been accepted by a lot of people that their fights could go either way...

But here you are saying Batman= Captain America! Remember this is your claim!

Mathematically substituting Batman= Captain America in comment no 58, we get

Comment no 58

But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by both batman and Batman

OR

Comment no 58

But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by batman

However we already know that you have NO IDEA about DD's actual speed and are just relying on other's opinions to get a ROUGH ESTIMATE of waht it actually is. We already know you have a fickle mind and are prone to changing your own opinion. So now lets look at a later post.

Comment no 130

Your first flaw is to think that DD wins because of his speed. DD might be faster, but there is no whole lot of difference. If DD dodges bullets, so does batman. Both can dodge each other and DD having slightly superior speed is balanced out by batmans slightly superior strength and more superior skill

Substituting Batman= Captain America here, we get

Comment no 130

Your first flaw is to think that DD wins because of his speed. DD might be faster, but there is no whole lot of difference. If DD dodges bullets, so does Captain America .Both can dodge each other and DD having slightly superior speed is balanced out byCaptain America s slightly superior strength and more superior skill

Remember these are YOUR claims not mine!

Now lets take a closer look at the Cap and Batman comparision

Comment no 82

Your another flaw is to think that batman and captain america are the same. Now, one could argue that they are, but they really are a lot different. First of all, captain america is no where as skilled as batman. Batman is basically a master in every singe form of martial arts. DD might toy with cap(Which is too unlikely in reality) but he cannot do the same thing to someone who actually knows how to fight with 127 different martial art styles.

Here you say Batman wins vs DD because he is > DD

Then you say that DD might toy with Cap meaning DD> Cap

So basically you are saying Batman is superior to Cap as

Batman> DD--------------(1)

DD > Cap-------------------(2)

Using (1) and (2) we get,

Batman> Cap

This directly contradicts the following statement

Comment no 129

Batman can stalemate cap in h2h.... It has been accepted by a lot of people that their fights could go either way...

The only thing consistent about you is your inconsistency. Pity you used "might beat Cap" rather than surely beat Cap. Then I would have nailed you on that too. Now moving on

Comment no 96

He hasn't received about a quarter of the martial arts training bruce did, neither has he stalemated top martial artists in marvel universe as far as I know.

Well clearly you dont know much, do you? Here's a list off the top of my head BESIDES the Spidey Villains I already listed

Wolverine, Captain America, Punisher, Beast,Black Widow, Elektra, Bullseye, Iron Fist till he used IF, Black Panther, Taskmaster, Sabretooth......

Comment no 129

When has he beaten Cap? As I have said, batman can stalemate cap whereas DD can give him a good fight... As for wolverine, Dd can hold him off at most for a limited time until he gets torn apart.

Well ignoring some of the other inconsistencies, what you said is really NOT supported by comics AT ALL..just to give two examples:

And oh, here's the Wolverine bloodlusted and mind controlled by Hydra fight. Basically him and dozens of other ninjas invade Matt's house.....and naturally lose despite Matt HOLDING BACK

After the impaling , Wolverine of course regains his mind blah blah... if you want the whole fight just ask me. It involves DD kicking Wolvie through the walls of a room and fighting off dozens of ninjas at the same time .

SOME OTHER MISCONCEPTIONS

Comment no 112

Again, you provide no evidence and just make up feats for DD.... Plus, I really don't see how DD can take on any Spiderman villains assuming he get's his ass handed to him by the fat ass king pin quite regularly....

Kingpin was/is a Spiderman villain......

And if you call the man who ripped off people's limbs with handshakes and crushed their skulls with his bare hands a "fat ass" ......wow I mean. I dunno . Just read Marvel. Once in a while. In fact just read anything other than Batman once in a while...

Comment no 50

First off, he once knocked Guy Gardner (Who was a green lantern and received intense green lantern training) out with one punch. I know it is funny and all but it is canon and when you actually think about it, All GL's receive training that is more intense than DD. I really don't know how DD can get smacked by Batman and not get KO'd.

The fact that you think Guy Gardner is a skilled fighter.......wow. Just wow. Read some DC stuff too man.

You shouldn't be allowed in batman battles......

#195 Posted by DigitalShooter9 (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

DISCLAIMER:

1. All quotes used here are directly as quoted by you. I literally copy pasted your own quotes. The relevant comment numbers have been given

2. Since you objected to my use of "real world logic" , I'm only using "comic book logic" now, ie I am not making any assumptions but directly using scans from comics

Lets start at the very beginning

SPEED

Comment no 50

DD might have superhuman senses but he has normal human speed (not even peak human) while batman has peak human speed.........So DD isn't outspending batman or dodging all his attacks. They are about equally matched in that area

First you said Batman's speed= DD's speed and only DD's superhuman senses will allow him to keep up

Comment no 111

Assuming both Batman and Daredevil are peak human, their speed are roughly equal.

At this point you are saying Batman's speed= DD's speed . However

Comment no 130

Your first flaw is to think that DD wins because of his speed. DD might be faster, but there is no whole lot of difference. If DD dodges bullets, so does batman. Both can dodge each other and DD having slightly superior speed is balanced out by batmans slightly superior strength and more superior skill

Comment no 167

What do think the DD is? The flash or something? I am telling you, they both have peak human speed and DD is a slight faster thats all.

And now you think DD is faster.

So we already know that you are prone to changing your mind and aren't really sure of DD's actual speed, seemingly changing your mind halfway through the thread

STRENGTH

Comment no 50

you are saying that matt(whose physical stats are inferior to bruce's)can do it?

First off, he once knocked Guy Gardner (Who was a green lantern and received intense green lantern training) out with one punch. I know it is funny and all but it is canon and when you actually think about it, All GL's receive training that is more intense than DD. I really don't know how DD can get smacked by Batman and not get KO'd.

Comment no 58

But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by both batman and captain america

At this point you are saying Batman can "smack him and KO him". Then you note that DD's physicals are outclassed by Bruce.

Comment no 130

Your first flaw is to think that DD wins because of his speed. DD might be faster, but there is no whole lot of difference. If DD dodges bullets, so does batman. Both can dodge each other and DD having slightly superior speed is balanced out by batmansslightly superior strength and more superior skill

You trying to make arguments on their h2h is more than all right.

But once again you change your mind halfway through the thread , but that's not really surprising anymore is it? we already know that you are unsure, heck you have NO IDEA about DD's actual stats and are just making it all up as you listen to OTHER PEOPLE tell you about DD. We already know you don't read DD and are just basing your stats for him on approximations of what you have heard.

In this case you went from DD being outclassed and "smacked" by Batman to Batman being his slight superior and me making an argument on their h2h being "more than all right"

COMPARISON WITH OTHER CHARACTERS

Comment no 55

Cap is enhanced, MATT isn't how can he possibly be stronger faster and more durable? Dude are you trolling?

You are saying DD is slower than Cap now.

Comment no 58

But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by both batman and captain america

And now you are saying Batman and Cap Am outclass him physically

Comment no 129

Batman can stalemate cap in h2h.... It has been accepted by a lot of people that their fights could go either way...

But here you are saying Batman= Captain America! Remember this is your claim!

Mathematically substituting Batman= Captain America in comment no 58, we get

Comment no 58

But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by both batman and Batman

OR

Comment no 58

But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by batman

However we already know that you have NO IDEA about DD's actual speed and are just relying on other's opinions to get a ROUGH ESTIMATE of waht it actually is. We already know you have a fickle mind and are prone to changing your own opinion. So now lets look at a later post.

Comment no 130

Your first flaw is to think that DD wins because of his speed. DD might be faster, but there is no whole lot of difference. If DD dodges bullets, so does batman. Both can dodge each other and DD having slightly superior speed is balanced out by batmans slightly superior strength and more superior skill

Substituting Batman= Captain America here, we get

Comment no 130

Your first flaw is to think that DD wins because of his speed. DD might be faster, but there is no whole lot of difference. If DD dodges bullets, so does Captain America .Both can dodge each other and DD having slightly superior speed is balanced out byCaptain America s slightly superior strength and more superior skill

Remember these are YOUR claims not mine!

Now lets take a closer look at the Cap and Batman comparision

Comment no 82

Your another flaw is to think that batman and captain america are the same. Now, one could argue that they are, but they really are a lot different. First of all, captain america is no where as skilled as batman. Batman is basically a master in every singe form of martial arts. DD might toy with cap(Which is too unlikely in reality) but he cannot do the same thing to someone who actually knows how to fight with 127 different martial art styles.

Here you say Batman wins vs DD because he is > DD

Then you say that DD might toy with Cap meaning DD> Cap

So basically you are saying Batman is superior to Cap as

Batman> DD--------------(1)

DD > Cap-------------------(2)

Using (1) and (2) we get,

Batman> Cap

This directly contradicts the following statement

Comment no 129

Batman can stalemate cap in h2h.... It has been accepted by a lot of people that their fights could go either way...

The only thing consistent about you is your inconsistency. Pity you used "might beat Cap" rather than surely beat Cap. Then I would have nailed you on that too. Now moving on

Comment no 96

He hasn't received about a quarter of the martial arts training bruce did, neither has he stalemated top martial artists in marvel universe as far as I know.

Well clearly you dont know much, do you? Here's a list off the top of my head BESIDES the Spidey Villains I already listed

Wolverine, Captain America, Punisher, Beast,Black Widow, Elektra, Bullseye, Iron Fist till he used IF, Black Panther, Taskmaster, Sabretooth......

Comment no 129

When has he beaten Cap? As I have said, batman can stalemate cap whereas DD can give him a good fight... As for wolverine, Dd can hold him off at most for a limited time until he gets torn apart.

Well ignoring some of the other inconsistencies, what you said is really NOT supported by comics AT ALL..just to give two examples:

And oh, here's the Wolverine bloodlusted and mind controlled by Hydra fight. Basically him and dozens of other ninjas invade Matt's house.....and naturally lose despite Matt HOLDING BACK

After the impaling , Wolverine of course regains his mind blah blah... if you want the whole fight just ask me. It involves DD kicking Wolvie through the walls of a room and fighting off dozens of ninjas at the same time .

SOME OTHER MISCONCEPTIONS

Comment no 112

Again, you provide no evidence and just make up feats for DD.... Plus, I really don't see how DD can take on any Spiderman villains assuming he get's his ass handed to him by the fat ass king pin quite regularly....

Kingpin was/is a Spiderman villain......

And if you call the man who ripped off people's limbs with handshakes and crushed their skulls with his bare hands a "fat ass" ......wow I mean. I dunno . Just read Marvel. Once in a while. In fact just read anything other than Batman once in a while...

Comment no 50

First off, he once knocked Guy Gardner (Who was a green lantern and received intense green lantern training) out with one punch. I know it is funny and all but it is canon and when you actually think about it, All GL's receive training that is more intense than DD. I really don't know how DD can get smacked by Batman and not get KO'd.

The fact that you think Guy Gardner is a skilled fighter.......wow. Just wow. Read some DC stuff too man.

I never said batman wins because he is cooler.

BUT, you said that Batman is useless, and I showed you that DD is the one who is actually useless when compared to batman. Simple as that. Even you think that batman is cooler than DD, has the better villains and all. But you still call him useless...

#196 Posted by TheGrayGhost (740 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9: You shouldn't be allowed in batman battles......

I should.......I should say sorry.....

Look I am sorry if I humiliated you there but man, this thread is a week old.

Let it go son. Breathe

#197 Edited by UNKNOWNUSER101 (337 posts) - - Show Bio

Can anyone check out my ult cap vs gorgon match

#198 Posted by TheGrayGhost (740 posts) - - Show Bio

@unknownuser101: Wow that's ....uh out of the blue. Just out of curiosity what relation does your ult cap vs gorgon match have with Daredevill vs Batman?

#199 Posted by UNKNOWNUSER101 (337 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegrayghost: sorry but i couldn't bump my thread again and at least it's closely related to this thread as it involves street levellers. If you can comment id appreciate.

#200 Edited by DigitalShooter9 (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9:

Well now that we have already established that you are unsure/ have NO IDEA about DD's feats and are just going by hearsay, and also that you have not read anything other than Batman in your entire life, not to mention the fact that you are fickle and prone to changing your opinion at will, often directly contradicting yourself in the process.......let us take a look at your latest pile of fanboy inspired rubbish.

Are you trolling with us or something? how about YOU tell me how it is canon... Which issue? Whose run?

What? You made the claim that its non canon not me. Its your job to prove why its non canon. I am assuming its canon just like I am assuming everything else posted on this thread is canon. Why should it NOT be canon other than you claiming it to be? Batman is the most published character in either Marvel or DC so the overwhelming probability is that it is canon somewhere sometime. Only you THINK its non canon. Pray tell me why you THINK its non canon? You are the one making the claim. Its your job to prove it. If you cant, the feat stands and it IS CANON. Or do you have NO idea how debates work? Your claim. Your job to prove it.

Didn't you say she only does that because of PIS??

Again, it is called PIS, as you even said yourself.

Wow...I think you have some self esteem issues here. Its all right. Take a deep breath. Calm down. Thats EXACTLY what I said. See? You were right. Stop worrying. You are NOT always wrong.

You don't even know batman.....

He can't handle harley? I am beginning to question your slightest knowledge of batman...

And there you go....just when I was praising you. Tell me one thing. Do you or do you NOT understand simple English? Because if you do, why in the hell would you think I was suggesting Harley could beat Batman?

Again since you wont even understand this sentence let me rewrite that for you explaining what I actually meant.

Harley CANNOT touch Batman. Just like villains like jester and bullets CANNOT even touch Matt. But yes things like that HAVE happened in comics.

But I am NOT COUNTING STUFF LIKE THAT!

So I am asking you to NOT count stuff like the likes of jester hitting Matt just like I am not counting the likes of Harley hitting Bruce . These are low showings and products of inconsistent/bad writing

FYI- Batman never gets his ass handed to him by DS, in fact, he always gives DS HELL whenever they fight. he even one shotted death stroke on one instance for gods sake... get your shit together. You don't even know batman(even DD for that matter) so stop lowballing him. Batman is useless? DD is BLIND for god's sake... You know I like DD but right now you are dis interesting me from him, honest. You think batman is useless, tell me, does DD have 1/100th the resources batman does? DD's super powers are so sad, he is basically spiderman without anything except the spider sense.... Batman is a core member of the Justice League, what is DD again? DD has the lamest villains ever (except bullseye and kingpin). He barely wins against kingpin who peter parker crippled so easily in the prison fight, it is not even funny. What villains does DD have again? Stilt man? lady bullseye? the owl? purple man? typhoid mary? the jester?(failed joker ripoff, lol), leap frog?, ani men?, man-bull?, mandrill?. "A hero is only as good as the villain he faces" As they say...

So wait you are saying Batman wins because he has cooler villains?

Again ....how does Batman being a member of the JL affect this fight in any way? Or are you saying the same thing as Matches Malone and saying he wins because he is "international"?

So you are saying Matt sucks because he is "barely" able to do what Spider Man does? What Spider Man does. Are you sure this is the same spiderman that we are talking about? The one that is leagues above Daredevil, Batman or 99% other street levellers?

If its the same guy, I count that as a point in favour of Matt even if he is "barely able to do what Spider Man does". "Barely able to do what Spiderman does" is really out of Bruce's league.

Even ignoring all the PIS where Matt doesnt really use his speed and gets into grappling matches with Kingpin, he ususally still wins these days.

But really the best part of your post was "Batman wins because he has cooler villains and he is in the Justice League"

So basically you are saying Batman wins because he is "cooler". Wow really the impartial and logical debater, arent you?

And oh given your poor understanding of English, that last bit was sarcasm.

If Dd can point Logan so can batman, I don't see your point...

Nope. Batman cant pressure point Logan unless he has feats for doing it vs opponents on that level.

However there is the absolute elite one percent containing the likes of Cass Cain, Matt and Elektra which is vastly superior to even Comic book peak humans and have the feats to prove they are superior too- Take Matt out of that list...

Nope shant. Matt has all the feats required to be on that list. Bruce doesnt. He comes in the next list. The Peak human list. Bruce just doesnt have the feats to put him alongside the absolute elite. He does have more fanboys than all the rest put together though.

Stop bs ing, it is perfectly pressure pointing. Throat chopping come one can kill them as far as I know and Batman wouldn't do that.....

Oh noes! That can't possibly happen! If he did THAT the person would die! That cant possibly happen!(sob) My hero can't kill....

Thats a throat chop same as Ric Flair chopping a man in the ring saying "whoooo!" Except its to the throat. Obviously. And no it doesnt kill unless you are really looking to kill. Ever watched a game of soccer? Even Basketball? Hands and wrists clash with the throats of players many a time. Nobody dies. Heck Batman has hit people in the throat plenty of times himself.

Finding those took me like 2 minutes or something, I am not putting any effort into this whatsoever as you are in complete denial.

By all means search all you want. Batman has not pressure pointed anyone even remotely important and I seriously doubt the one or two guys that he did Pressure point even have a wiki entry. ON THE DC WIKIA

Do you think a ceiling wigs less than a limo??? Who said that it was 1000lbs

Well firstly he only held a couple of beams and not the entire thing and secondly

Doing some calculations:

New Roof:

Timberline shingle 73lb / 33.3 ft sq = 2.21 lb/sq ft (

Lifetime Timberline Natural Shadow Weathered Wood Shingles-0603737 at The Home Depot

)

3/4 plywood = 2.3 lb sq ft (

What is weight per square foot of Plywood

)

2000 sq ft roof x (2.3 lbs sq ft plywood + 2.21 Shingle) = 9020 lbs

Original Roof:

Wet Cedar shakes weigh 3lb/ sq ft x 2000 sq ft = 6000 lb

Dry cedar shakes weigh 2 lbs/ sq ft = 4000 Lb

Even taking an upper limit , its 6000 pounds or still less than 3 tons

But thats beside the point really as clearly those roofs didnt weigh all that much given Batman's failure to bench 600 pounds thus directly contradicting our ASSUMPTIONS.

Its assumptions vs facts stated on panel. Yeah I am gonna go with facts here.

He can absolutely mop the floor with DD with his most basic equipments. An explosive batarang would do the trick. DD might dodge it, but he will get caught in the explosion.

DD bats away bullets consistently. Why the hell would he dodge it? He would send it flying back and kill Bruce with his own Batarang

What do think the DD is? The flash or something? I am telling you, they both have peak human speed and DD is a slight faster thats all. He isn't pointing batman or anything. Batman can counter all of DD's moves as he has the superior skill.

According to comics when written consistently with regards to the characters true speed, DD toys with Cap and one shots Logan before he can even steady his claws.

As for Bruce.....

So yeah when comics are written consistently( and by that I mean as close to real life logic as possible) and characters display their actual speeds which they are displaying in their own titles, the difference between bullet timers and aim dodgers is huge and yes , for all intents and purposes they could be Flash level fast RELATIVE to an aim dodger

Please, no, just no, despite you being the ONLY one in the entire thread that thinks DD wins, you still act like my arguments are crap. I really don't want to return to this... Especially after you saying that Dd can STOMP BATMAN WHEN HE HAS PREP IF HE DOESN"T USE SONICS. For gods sake, batman with prep will absolutely murderstomp DD. If you didn't know batman is a master at exploiting weaknesses. By the time 15 minutes are over, Batman will not only know about D's blindness and senses, but also will know about his identity, where he lives, who he works with every single other thing. And after that he will use the sonics... But really, batman doesn't need prep nor sonics in reality.... Whatever, It looks like I am wasting my time here, no matter what I bring up, you seem to be in denial. How about we do something like this. For that 4 days, read daredevil, yes right read daredevil. AFTER READING DD, you probably will at least think he can't stalemate the hulk.

As I have already pointed out, most people here wouldnt know Lester from Wilson Fisk or Ms Natchois , so me being the only one saying DD wins doesnt really bother me at all.

Exploiting "weaknesses". Again your English skills are questionable. Read the OP again.

Round 1:

No one is aware of who they're fighting (surprise fight basically)

Each get 10 min of prep

Win by K.O

Standard gear

Round 2:

Both are aware of each others fighting skills (only)

Each get 15 min of prep

Win by K.O/nearly killed

Daredevil is using a staff from his billy club

Batman has 1 smoke grenade, 3 batarangs and a grappling gun

Fight takes place in gladiator arena in Rome.

GO!

So there you go. Nobody knows each others' weaknesses and Batman has what he has. DD curbstomp both rounds

And lastly knowing DD's secret identity isnt really something important. Heck even the FBI knew his identity, That hardly gave any of them an advantage. And oh if you would actually reread what I actually wrote, you would find that I called the DD Hulk fight PIS.

IN CONCLUSION

I THINK you are incapable of looking at this debate objectively having never read DD and being a huge Batman fan. You frequently change your own mind about the character's feats and do not even attempt to justify your claims with scans and proof

In fact your reaction to me posting a scan was saying it was non canon and then pretty much admitting you said so despite never actually having read the comic. This is the most damning evidence of all. Why would you say it was non canon without even pretending to know something about it?

Unless you had already made up your mind. Which is backed by statements like Batman winning because he has " cooler villains"

With all due respect I think you are a fanboy and are not even pretending to look at this debate objectively .

Now that I have shown the many inconsistencies in your posts, I think its in the best interests of all if you could just quietly leave this debate and let actual neutrals debate.

Good Bye

Where, just where did I say batman wins because he has cooler villains?

You making stuff up?

I did say that batman has cooler villains so he is more interesting as an answer to you saying batman is useless... But where the hell did I say batman wins THIS FIGHT because he has cooler villains?? Point it out....