#51 Posted by Shawnbaby (10867 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren: so this where you claim Batman is the number one street leveller in the DCU right cause I sure claim Cass is no1exceot when Val shows up..

So about right now I expect to see those scans were Batman smirks as bullets pass imches from his face and he dodges at the last moment. Yup I am sure Batman stablemating Peak Cass Cain is up there with all of his other feats including getting hammered unconscious by Deathstroke andthen Cassie sstablemating DS while holding onto a disk with one hand or turning his own swotd on him or beating down Shiva in a couple of panels

Of course them fighting evenly is highly consistent with Batman's other fights with her right, oh wait he wasn't trying . But now that was of course Cassie can't read his body anymore cuz when Batman get angry he punch faster than Deathstroke , Shiva , Nightwing amd of course bullets right?

Whenever Cass has lost or even stablemated they have at least TRIED to give an explanation be it Slades body beimg something she can't read or Tim fighting with "no style" .

But nope. Batman is so much fasyer than Deathstroke he stalemates her in a fight. Because of course he has shown the speed to move faster than a bullet after its fired so MANY times

So you are saying Batman is better than Shiva, DS and Cass right? That must be exactly what you are saying

Good Day

Anyone else want to see Bruce and Cass "Stable Mating"?

#52 Posted by TheGrayGhost (979 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9: DD can only sense with his meta senses the reaction part is all his training. Reactions which Batman has never actually shown

The fact that ypu think GLS have more training than Matt makes me wonder how much you know about him

You do know right Batman only lost un Knightfall as he was mentally and physicallybroken. The aactual breaking happened before Bane physically broke his back

As shown by Batman beating Bane on Venom later. Bane on Venom is still only peak human or marginally stronger

Croc is a joke. Huntresd ths thrashed him in the sewers

Matt is both stronger , faster and more durable than Cap

#53 Posted by TheGrayGhost (979 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: Ha ha very funny. Told you its difficult to type on my phone and I have slower connection to boot

Please ignore the spelling errors and focus on the content instead

#54 Edited by Shawnbaby (10867 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegrayghost said:

@digitalshooter9: DD can only sense with his meta senses the reaction part is all his training. Reactions which Batman has never actually shown

The fact that ypu think GLS have more training than Matt makes me wonder how much you know about him

You do know right Batman only lost un Knightfall as he was mentally and physicallybroken. The aactual breaking happened before Bane physically broke his back

As shown by Batman beating Bane on Venom later. Bane on Venom is still only peak human or marginally stronger

Croc is a joke. Huntresd ths thrashed him in the sewers

Matt is both stronger , faster and more durable than Cap

He really isn't.

#55 Posted by DigitalShooter9 (1807 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9: DD can only sense with his meta senses the reaction part is all his training. Reactions which Batman has never actually shown

The fact that ypu think GLS have more training than Matt makes me wonder how much you know about him

You do know right Batman only lost un Knightfall as he was mentally and physicallybroken. The aactual breaking happened before Bane physically broke his back

As shown by Batman beating Bane on Venom later. Bane on Venom is still only peak human or marginally stronger - definitely not Bane on venom is a lot stronger than peak human, new 52 venom arguably makes him stronger than cap.

Croc is a joke. Huntresd ths thrashed him in the sewers

New 52 Croc held his own against new 52 bane who wrecked batman.......

Matt is both stronger , faster and more durable than Cap- Cap is enhanced, MATT isn't how can he possibly be stronger faster and more durable? Dude are you trolling?

#56 Posted by TheGrayGhost (979 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: You will also note that Matt has become on a consistent basis, far faster than his Born Again days while Cap has remained the same . Its like saying Cap would beat Iron Fist today just because he did all those years ago. He clearly cannot

Besides writers say a lot of things on panel which is not supported by feats in comics . Otherwise 10 eyed man would be the most dangerous man in DC earth and Mjolnir would "shatter planets like pebbles"

I go only by High end consistent feats. As of now, DD has consistently portrayed speed and strength beyond Captain America including that toying with the shield feat

At this juncture his many feats place Matt firmly above Captain as one of the Elite MA artists in Marvel

#57 Edited by Shawnbaby (10867 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: You will also note that Matt has become on a consistent basis, far faster than his Born Again days while Cap has remained the same . Its like saying Cap would beat Iron Fist today just because he did all those years ago. He clearly cannot

Besides writers say a lot of things on panel which is not supported by feats in comics . Otherwise 10 eyed man would be the most dangerous man in DC earth and Mjolnir would "shatter planets like pebbles"

I go only by High end consistent feats. As of now, DD has consistently portrayed speed and strength beyond Captain America including that toying with the shield feat

At this juncture his many feats place Matt firmly above Captain as one of the Elite MA artists in Marvel

But this was supported by feats. Steve Ran past Matt faster than Matt could track. And with Matt's Radar Sense...that's saying something. It's on panel...it's not a statement that isn't backed up by any feats.

#58 Posted by DigitalShooter9 (1807 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: You will also note that Matt has become on a consistent basis, far faster than his Born Again days while Cap has remained the same . Its like saying Cap would beat Iron Fist today just because he did all those years ago. He clearly cannot

Besides writers say a lot of things on panel which is not supported by feats in comics . Otherwise 10 eyed man would be the most dangerous man in DC earth and Mjolnir would "shatter planets like pebbles"

I go only by High end consistent feats. As of now, DD has consistently portrayed speed and strength beyond Captain America including that toying with the shield feat

At this juncture his many feats place Matt firmly above Captain as one of the Elite MA artists in Marvel

Dude, i like daredevil too but honestly, you are pushing this to the point of bullshitting. I mean it was all tolerable until you started saying DD is superior to Caps in speed, strength etc. But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by both batman and captain america, want to say otherwise and change what the majority thinks, post scans of DD lifting a car or being faster than Cap or whatever it is that you are arguing and most important of all, say it clearly why you think Dd should win, this is a fight, not a bullet dodging contest for gods sake! So far all I have understood from you was that DD is a bullet timer and should win the fight. the rest you said, I don't even want to argue......

#59 Edited by Shawnbaby (10867 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9 said:

@thegrayghost said:

@shawnbaby: You will also note that Matt has become on a consistent basis, far faster than his Born Again days while Cap has remained the same . Its like saying Cap would beat Iron Fist today just because he did all those years ago. He clearly cannot

Besides writers say a lot of things on panel which is not supported by feats in comics . Otherwise 10 eyed man would be the most dangerous man in DC earth and Mjolnir would "shatter planets like pebbles"

I go only by High end consistent feats. As of now, DD has consistently portrayed speed and strength beyond Captain America including that toying with the shield feat

At this juncture his many feats place Matt firmly above Captain as one of the Elite MA artists in Marvel

Dude, i like daredevil too but honestly, you are pushing this to the point of bullshitting. I mean it was all tolerable until you started saying DD is superior to Caps in speed, strength etc. But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by both batman and captain america, want to say otherwise and change what the majority thinks, post scans of DD lifting a car or being faster than Cap or whatever it is that you are arguing and most important of all, say it clearly why you think Dd should win, this is a fight, not a bullet dodging contest for gods sake! So far all I have understood from you was that DD is a bullet timer and should win the fight. the rest you said, I don't even want to argue......

Well...as to the car incident I think I know what he's referring to...but DD didn't so much lift the car as he did roll it over.

For comparison...this is what lifting a car looks like.

Personally, I would say that by feats Matt is indeed Peak Human and roughly on par with Batman, while Cap is just a little big more than peak human.

#60 Edited by DigitalShooter9 (1807 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9 said:

@thegrayghost said:

@shawnbaby: You will also note that Matt has become on a consistent basis, far faster than his Born Again days while Cap has remained the same . Its like saying Cap would beat Iron Fist today just because he did all those years ago. He clearly cannot

Besides writers say a lot of things on panel which is not supported by feats in comics . Otherwise 10 eyed man would be the most dangerous man in DC earth and Mjolnir would "shatter planets like pebbles"

I go only by High end consistent feats. As of now, DD has consistently portrayed speed and strength beyond Captain America including that toying with the shield feat

At this juncture his many feats place Matt firmly above Captain as one of the Elite MA artists in Marvel

Dude, i like daredevil too but honestly, you are pushing this to the point of bullshitting. I mean it was all tolerable until you started saying DD is superior to Caps in speed, strength etc. But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by both batman and captain america, want to say otherwise and change what the majority thinks, post scans of DD lifting a car or being faster than Cap or whatever it is that you are arguing and most important of all, say it clearly why you think Dd should win, this is a fight, not a bullet dodging contest for gods sake! So far all I have understood from you was that DD is a bullet timer and should win the fight. the rest you said, I don't even want to argue......

Well...as to the car incident I think I know what he's referring to...but DD didn't so much lift the car as he did roll it over.

For comparison...this is what lifting a car looks like.

Personally, I would say that by feats Matt is indeed Peak Human and roughly on par with Batman, while Cap is just a little big more than peak human.

Well I don't think flipping a car is by anyways the same as lifting it. Also I believe batman can also flip car, I have seen him bench press something around a ton...IDK how much strength it requires but I am sure he can at least flip a car so no way DD out powers Batman.....

#61 Edited by Shawnbaby (10867 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9 said:

@shawnbaby said:

@digitalshooter9 said:

@thegrayghost said:

@shawnbaby: You will also note that Matt has become on a consistent basis, far faster than his Born Again days while Cap has remained the same . Its like saying Cap would beat Iron Fist today just because he did all those years ago. He clearly cannot

Besides writers say a lot of things on panel which is not supported by feats in comics . Otherwise 10 eyed man would be the most dangerous man in DC earth and Mjolnir would "shatter planets like pebbles"

I go only by High end consistent feats. As of now, DD has consistently portrayed speed and strength beyond Captain America including that toying with the shield feat

At this juncture his many feats place Matt firmly above Captain as one of the Elite MA artists in Marvel

Dude, i like daredevil too but honestly, you are pushing this to the point of bullshitting. I mean it was all tolerable until you started saying DD is superior to Caps in speed, strength etc. But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by both batman and captain america, want to say otherwise and change what the majority thinks, post scans of DD lifting a car or being faster than Cap or whatever it is that you are arguing and most important of all, say it clearly why you think Dd should win, this is a fight, not a bullet dodging contest for gods sake! So far all I have understood from you was that DD is a bullet timer and should win the fight. the rest you said, I don't even want to argue......

Well...as to the car incident I think I know what he's referring to...but DD didn't so much lift the car as he did roll it over.

For comparison...this is what lifting a car looks like.

Personally, I would say that by feats Matt is indeed Peak Human and roughly on par with Batman, while Cap is just a little big more than peak human.

Well I don't think flipping a car is by anyways the same as lifting it. Also I believe batman can also flip car, I have seen him bench press something around a ton...IDK how much strength it requires but I am sure he can at least flip a car so no way DD out powers Batman.....

Most I've ever seen Batman bench is 1000 lbs (1/2 ton). I have no doubt that Batman can also flip a car...as I said...I believe Bruce and Matt to be on par with each other.

Also, I never stated that flipping a car was the same as lifting it...in fact I went so far as to show the difference between the two.

#62 Posted by DigitalShooter9 (1807 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9 said:

@shawnbaby said:

@digitalshooter9 said:

@thegrayghost said:

@shawnbaby: You will also note that Matt has become on a consistent basis, far faster than his Born Again days while Cap has remained the same . Its like saying Cap would beat Iron Fist today just because he did all those years ago. He clearly cannot

Besides writers say a lot of things on panel which is not supported by feats in comics . Otherwise 10 eyed man would be the most dangerous man in DC earth and Mjolnir would "shatter planets like pebbles"

I go only by High end consistent feats. As of now, DD has consistently portrayed speed and strength beyond Captain America including that toying with the shield feat

At this juncture his many feats place Matt firmly above Captain as one of the Elite MA artists in Marvel

Dude, i like daredevil too but honestly, you are pushing this to the point of bullshitting. I mean it was all tolerable until you started saying DD is superior to Caps in speed, strength etc. But, note that DD is by no means peak human, his physicals are outclassed by both batman and captain america, want to say otherwise and change what the majority thinks, post scans of DD lifting a car or being faster than Cap or whatever it is that you are arguing and most important of all, say it clearly why you think Dd should win, this is a fight, not a bullet dodging contest for gods sake! So far all I have understood from you was that DD is a bullet timer and should win the fight. the rest you said, I don't even want to argue......

Well...as to the car incident I think I know what he's referring to...but DD didn't so much lift the car as he did roll it over.

For comparison...this is what lifting a car looks like.

Personally, I would say that by feats Matt is indeed Peak Human and roughly on par with Batman, while Cap is just a little big more than peak human.

Well I don't think flipping a car is by anyways the same as lifting it. Also I believe batman can also flip car, I have seen him bench press something around a ton...IDK how much strength it requires but I am sure he can at least flip a car so no way DD out powers Batman.....

Most I've ever seen Batman bench is 1000 lbs (1/2 ton). I have no doubt that Batman can also flip a car...as I said...I believe Bruce and Matt to be on par with each other.

Also, I never stated that flipping a car was the same as lifting it...in fact I went so far as to show the difference between the two.

I know you didn't, just wanted to point out my opinion..

#63 Posted by Zijuun (854 posts) - - Show Bio

@zijuun said:

Daredevil stomps both rounds.

Huh?

@zijuun said:

Daredevil stomps both rounds.

Pics or it didn't happen.

=I *Adds a little more sarcasm to my last post. *

#64 Posted by thecoolest (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza said:

1)One thing I find is that people constantly under-estimate Daredevil on Comic vine. 2)Its a surprise fight, so Batman probably wont know about DDs sonic weakness. 3)Still think Batman wins but on a sort of 60/40 basis.....I think it will be tough. 4)DD has a good record against capable opponents like Captain America, Wolverine and Spiderman...

1)It depends on the person, there are people that underestimate Wolverine for instance and say that even Nightwing would take him down, but there are also trolls like Klandicar (VERY POSSIBLY AKA porlos) that say that Wolverine could kill Wonder Woman, Doomsday and the Sinestro Corps. There are people that overrate and people that underrate Matt, this is valid for pretty much any character.

2)True, but Bats carries sonic granades with him all the time.

3)Yes, it won't be easy, but I give Bats a majority of 9/10 in both rounds (but it's debatable).

4)All of them are holding back whenever they fight DD, and Batman has beaten 4 (maybe five) White Martians at the same time, given Deathstroke a good fight (and Slade is at least on pair with Cap and Wolvie considering that he fought people that could tear any street-leveler apart with ease) etc. And fighting against guys that are holding back isn't very impressive, heck, Spider-man has fought the Avengers (including Thor) because they were holding back.

#65 Posted by GhostRavage (9194 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby:

He really isn't.

Well...

He fought an angry Captain America and pretty much dodge every single hit besides one and even in that moment he managed to end in a "ready stance" to keep dodging. So i think they're pretty much equal as far as combat speed goes. Performing agility feats like climbing and running obviously goes for Captain America because of the serum.

Just sayin'

#66 Posted by generator2000 (1140 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Since Batman has better gear and time to prepare, I give it to Batman.

Round 2: Pick One. I can't think of a winner. Either could win.

#67 Edited by thecoolest (298 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that Batman is stronger than Matt and that this is one of the reasons for what he wins:

#68 Posted by CF12793 (2993 posts) - - Show Bio

lol, why are people even baiting the "Dd is stronger than Cap" troll? He doesn't have a single merit of credit in his argument, just ignore him.

#69 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8980 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren:The only time Batman beat Cass was without her powers

Unless you are stating something from her later Godawful runs

In which case Nightwing also stablemated her and Tim Drake outright beat her meaning he is better than both of them right?

If you mean THAT version of Cassie Matt murderstomps her

Mate,you don't anything abaout Batman.

Where Cassandra Cain got powers? Nowhere. She never had powers,Cass have a natural ability to read the body language of a person to the point,she's capable to predict the next movement.

Where Timothy and Nightwing beat her? Never.

#71 Posted by patrat18 (10174 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce both rounds.

#72 Posted by philkelly96 (55 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say Batman wins.

Daredevil would not go down without a fight but Bats has lots of ways to win.

I've seen people say daredevil has lots of strength but (I may be wrong) I've heard bats could lift around a ton.

Bats knows EVERY type of fighting style there is and has mastered it.

He has sonic Batarangs which straight up f*ck DDs ears and head.

Batman has dodged a bullet after it was short without looking. It was shot behind him and before it got to him he tilted his head and it missed.

But the main reason he wins is because.......... HE'S THE GOD DAMNED BATMAN!!!!

#73 Posted by TheGrayGhost (979 posts) - - Show Bio

Well among all the other rubbish flying around here that scan looks pre crisis I may be wrong though

because poat crisis Batman definitely tried and FAILED to lift 600 pounds

Not that it particularly matters

And average car weighs 1000 Kg

A limo weighs three TONS

So Batman tried and FAILED to lift half a ton

Now since Daredevil didn't actually lift the limo just flipped it over , I'd still say he lifted 1.5 tons

So now my attitude can be to call you all trolls since you can't even check up on your own facts

Or my attitude could be the same as it has been through out this thread, ie to try and convince people WHY DD wins

He's stronger

The bullet time speed matters because THAT is his reaction speed in an actual fight when someone is trying to kill him

His speed is to hear the sound of a bullet whizzing through the air , shot by a person behind him, turn around and bat back the bullet through that person's arm

His speed is to take an entire round of shots from a pistol at point blank range and bat it left and right before thumping the guy

I know Wolverine and Cap Am are famous characters and everyone has seen the movies but how well do you know these characters in the comics?

In the comics Cap doesn't do anything particularly above what Batman does on a regular basis. Both are peak humans barring that time in between when Cap was so powered up he threw a stone block bigger than him up to a skyscraper . Or the time he survived a point blank ground zero grenade

That's just PIS however

For the last 10 years or so Cap has been consistently shown to be Batman level and nothing like thr kind of Stuff DD pulls off

which is why DD toyed around with him and stalemated a feral Wolverine. Which is actually a low showing for DD given the likes of Elektra have beaten Logan who again does NOT display any kind of Spider man level speed like EVER. (Cue Wolverine fan boys)

That's even without mentioning DDs pressure point nerve cluster one shotting feats

I mean sure I may be trolling. But I seem to be the only one coming up with consistent evidence to support my facts

At least that Moderator guy TRIED to put up an argument

Your arguments all amount upto LOL Batman or LOL Cap Am and are not in any way supported by what is actually shown in comics

#74 Edited by MonsterStomp (19296 posts) - - Show Bio

^ *shakes head*

Online
#75 Posted by Wolverine08 (43685 posts) - - Show Bio
#76 Posted by MonsterStomp (19296 posts) - - Show Bio

What and this thread hasn't already been done?

Online
#77 Posted by Wolverine08 (43685 posts) - - Show Bio

I mean sure I may be trolling.

Oh no, you're definitely trolling.

#78 Posted by godzilla44 (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

are people comparing DD strength to caps

#79 Edited by TheGrayGhost (979 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow.

Even after I said please present feats to show otherwise the response is a facepalm?

The best strength feat for Cap is that weightlifting feat where he lifted 1100 something. If its pounds it doesn't matter if its KG then DD has still lifted more

Dd has fought using a blue mail box as a weapon even jumping with it at one point. He has bent prison bars and Punched through concrete.

Even if you are claiming Cap is equal in strength DD still wins due to his far greater speed and lol ful pressure point feats

It says in the Forum rules itself that you should not answer with things like "Batman duh". But provide a reasonable and logical argument complete with scans and context if possible.

What I am saying is in the time it took to search for and post that meme you could easily have posted a scan proving me otherwise( unless such a scan doesn't exist... )

Is it necessary to be rude at every instance? Or are you just diverting attention from the lack of feats for the concerned characters?

#80 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8980 posts) - - Show Bio

Well among all the other rubbish flying around here that scan looks pre crisis I may be wrong though

because poat crisis Batman definitely tried and FAILED to lift 600 pounds

Not that it particularly matters

And average car weighs 1000 Kg

A limo weighs three TONS

So Batman tried and FAILED to lift half a ton

Now since Daredevil didn't actually lift the limo just flipped it over , I'd still say he lifted 1.5 tons

So now my attitude can be to call you all trolls since you can't even check up on your own facts

Or my attitude could be the same as it has been through out this thread, ie to try and convince people WHY DD wins

He's stronger

The bullet time speed matters because THAT is his reaction speed in an actual fight when someone is trying to kill him

His speed is to hear the sound of a bullet whizzing through the air , shot by a person behind him, turn around and bat back the bullet through that person's arm

His speed is to take an entire round of shots from a pistol at point blank range and bat it left and right before thumping the guy

I know Wolverine and Cap Am are famous characters and everyone has seen the movies but how well do you know these characters in the comics?

In the comics Cap doesn't do anything particularly above what Batman does on a regular basis. Both are peak humans barring that time in between when Cap was so powered up he threw a stone block bigger than him up to a skyscraper . Or the time he survived a point blank ground zero grenade

That's just PIS however

For the last 10 years or so Cap has been consistently shown to be Batman level and nothing like thr kind of Stuff DD pulls off

which is why DD toyed around with him and stalemated a feral Wolverine. Which is actually a low showing for DD given the likes of Elektra have beaten Logan who again does NOT display any kind of Spider man level speed like EVER. (Cue Wolverine fan boys)

That's even without mentioning DDs pressure point nerve cluster one shotting feats

I mean sure I may be trolling. But I seem to be the only one coming up with consistent evidence to support my facts

At least that Moderator guy TRIED to put up an argument

Your arguments all amount upto LOL Batman or LOL Cap Am and are not in any way supported by what is actually shown in comics

Daredevil didn't lifted the car.... Flip over is tottaly different to lift.

So you want scans of Batman strength? More recently?

Lifts and holds up a large beam from a collapsed building enabling the trapped monks under it to get out. These beam types usually weigh between 800-1000Ibs or more (Batman Annual #21)

#81 Posted by MonsterStomp (19296 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegrayghost

Batman is around Captain America's level of strength, which is a non factor unless these combatants engage in grapples. Batman has some king striking power, such as breaking Killer Croc's leg and breaking through rocket resistant glass (both able to endure explosive force). Batman also makes good use of nerve strikes, he used them in his first fight with Talon (or attempted to) while holding back and trying to make his hits look lucky (as it was Bruce fighting Talon and not Batman). Batman also has comparable speed to Daredevil, if not faster. Batman blitzed three thugs where time seemed still (view the aquarium fish tank in the background, not a single fish moved from its position while Batman was blitzing the men). Not to mention, Batman has appeared and disappeared on super human beings such as Superman, Captain Atom and Andrew Bennet.

Who cares if Daredevil has fought with a blue mail box? There isn't a mail box present.

Online
#82 Posted by DigitalShooter9 (1807 posts) - - Show Bio

Well among all the other rubbish flying around here that scan looks pre crisis I may be wrong though

because poat crisis Batman definitely tried and FAILED to lift 600 pounds

Not that it particularly matters

And average car weighs 1000 Kg

A limo weighs three TONS

So Batman tried and FAILED to lift half a ton

When? Where?

Now since Daredevil didn't actually lift the limo just flipped it over , I'd still say he lifted 1.5 tons


He flipped a limo that was sideways, even an average guy can do that if he really tries, he just pushed the limo , didn't lift anything. Also I have never seen batman fail lifting half a pound, prove it or it is bs.

So now my attitude can be to call you all trolls since you can't even check up on your own facts

Or my attitude could be the same as it has been through out this thread, ie to try and convince people WHY DD wins

He's stronger

The bullet time speed matters because THAT is his reaction speed in an actual fight when someone is trying to kill him.


Dodging a bullet isn't the same as dodging punch, especially for DD.. You see DD hears a bullet leave the gun which allows him to speculate the trajectory and dodge it. But a punch doesn't make the loud sound of a bursting gun. Logically, it is harder for DD to feel where a punch is coming from than to see where a bullet is coming from as a punch is much more silent. Especially if he is fighting batman as he is silent and stealthy as hell. His punches are harder for DD to speculate. Now Dd can definitely dodge batman's punches to some extent, but him dodging a loud sniper bullet isn't the same thing as him dodging batman's stealthy punch as dd purely relays on hearing. Especially if batman uses sonics right off the bat, then DD will be a punching bag.

His speed is to hear the sound of a bullet whizzing through the air , shot by a person behind him, turn around and bat back the bullet through that person's arm

His speed is to take an entire round of shots from a pistol at point blank range and bat it left and right before thumping the guy

I know Wolverine and Cap Am are famous characters and everyone has seen the movies but how well do you know these characters in the comics?

In the comics Cap doesn't do anything particularly above what Batman does on a regular basis. Both are peak humans barring that time in between when Cap was so powered up he threw a stone block bigger than him up to a skyscraper . Or the time he survived a point blank ground zero grenade

That's just PIS however

For the last 10 years or so Cap has been consistently shown to be Batman level and nothing like thr kind of Stuff DD pulls off

which is why DD toyed around with him and stalemated a feral Wolverine. Which is actually a low showing for DD given the likes of Elektra have beaten Logan who again does NOT display any kind of Spider man level speed like EVER. (Cue Wolverine fan boys)

That's even without mentioning DDs pressure point nerve cluster one shotting feats

I mean sure I may be trolling. But I seem to be the only one coming up with consistent evidence to support my facts

At least that Moderator guy TRIED to put up an argument

Your arguments all amount upto LOL Batman or LOL Cap Am and are not in any way supported by what is actually shown in comics

Your another flaw is to think that batman and captain america are the same. Now, one could argue that they are, but they really are a lot different. First of all, captain america is no where as skilled as batman. Batman is basically a master in every singe form of martial arts. DD might toy with cap(Which is too unlikely in reality) but he cannot do the same thing to someone who actually knows how to fight with 127 different martial art styles. Batman can just sit down countering all of DD's attacks and KO him when he get's tired. DDs physicals might be close to peak human, but skill-wise they aren't equally matched. I know DD also knows nerve strikes and all but lets get real, his training is no where near Bruce's. If you want to see feats of Bruce in his martial arts training, check out the beginning of the recent zero year story arc, he is shown to defeat hundreds of opponents on an icy arena in Norway, all by himself in h2h. Note that he is fighting without any clothes on his top in a freezing weather. That also shows off his durability. To be honest I really don't think Dd could have survived what Bruce did there. Fighting countless men in freezing weather for 24 hours without killing any of them. And winning..... Cant post scans right now but someone could share them.....

#83 Edited by TheGrayGhost (979 posts) - - Show Bio

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/batman-vs-captain-america-arm-wrestle-703614/matchesmalone21:

Ordinarily I would accept your argument about the beams

However this is an estimate even according to you

I don't know how to post images on the phone s I have linked this page

Please ignore everything else and just see the scan

Which directly contradicts your estimation

#84 Posted by Elzio1 (120 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman has the edge in fighting skill, he's more tactical and cunning, and his standard gear can change everything in the fight, Daredevil's only advantage here is his reflexes and agility.

Tough fight, but I can picture more scenarios where Batman would win due to his versatility. The Dark Knight takes this 7/10

#85 Posted by TheGrayGhost (979 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9: The limo was NOT already sideways. He still lifted it ans turned it full cycle with AT LEAST 3 people inside( not including the driver)

If limo flipping was so easy , punks would have been flipping limos all over the countty

The thing weighs 3 tons

Even considering half that weight, it massively surpasses anything batman has ever done

To put it into perspective Big Show weighs about 500 pounds

Batman could barely bench that. You DO know the difference between pounds and Kg

Right?

Again Daredevil has easily lifted a 400 pound barbell and used THAT as a weapon swinging it like a bat( the weight is given on panel)

I realise you don't read much Daredevil but you do know his main power right? His RADAR senses( FYI he's batted away bullets without it too)

Radar so he realises when an object is moving from many feet away? Radar so good a guy had to get up on a helicopter many blocks away just so he cannot detect the sniper ? And he only failed THEN as he was fighting Bullseye

Sneak up on him? Dude. DD can hear the heartbeat of a person 50 feet away. And his more insane stuff involve across entire blocks and hearing a man's heart stop 2 floors below him. Sneaking up is NOT an option without PIS( Superman can hear Green arrow halfway across the world and can't hear batman, gimme a break)

Er. DD can bat away bullets after they are fired at point blank range and can't stop a punch?

Why would Batman use a sonic when he doesn't know anything other than DdS fighting style? How many times does he use one in his random fights?

More importantly how is he going to get the chance to use one before Dd pressure points him?given DD has shown speed Batman Has NEVER shown unless you are going to use FISH as an eg like that...um fanboy before you.

Batman has better striking power? Lol wut? Even Cap Am fans agree DDs nerve strikes and striking power exceed Cap Am

Tell me when did Batman ever punch through concrete?

Again you seem to lowball Marvel Characters. Cap Am is as skilled as Batman maybe a little less certainly no huge gulf.

DD is one of the absolute top bracket elite MA artists in Marvel. I won't say he is more or less skilled than Bruce( he seems to be more) but yeah there is again no noticeable gap

You seem to be switching between new52 and post crisis . Please clarify which version you want to use.

Batman can't counter DDs one shot nerve strikes simply because he has never shown that kind of a speed in comics

Batman fighting in freezing weather in zero year is highly impressive. DD has fought an entire prison ( AFTER BENDING OPEN HIS CAGE BARS) and 100 members of the Yakuza armed to the teeth with guns, knives and bats without killing any of them. And winning

#86 Posted by Jmarshmallow (8919 posts) - - Show Bio

#thatawkwardmomentwhen This thread suddenly devolves into a Cap vs. Batman vs. Daredevil Thread.

Seriously people. This is why we can't have nice things.

Oh, and Bruce wins both rounds. Daredevil's slightly looser morals allow him to hang with Bats on any good day, but never beat him.

Jmarshmallow

#87 Posted by TheGrayGhost (979 posts) - - Show Bio

@elzio1: Did you not just see the difference in strength with Batman failing to bench even 600 pounds?

DD flips limos, punches through concrete, bends prison bars

Again I don't think people are getting exactlyWHAT the speed difference means

Allow me to demonstrate

Me: Die Batman fanboys!

You: Not a chance ! I am going to demonstrate that your argument about speed hardly matters at all. And jist to rub in the irony I am going to use this stick to show how it doesn't matter you DD fanboy!

Me: I am not...whatever. get ready I am going to shoot.

You: bring it! I am going to bat it away

(Shoots)

You: Alas ! Who knew bullets could move so mind numbingly fast. And now I bleed. Oh how I bleed...

Batman: shoot me now punk!

(Shoots)

me: arrghh...who knew it would be so difficult to shoot someone moving through the shadows and jumping like crazy!

Batman: thats because I can woth my many years of practice see your aim and guess which way to dodge. See the moment YOU raise YOUR arm, I am already moving. Nvm the times someone like Deadshot hit me anyway. ....

Me: ah...now I see

The difference in bullet timing and aim dodging is HUGE. One involves reacting to a PERSON. The other involves reacting to a BULLET. See Batman can of courde move faster than the vast majority of people can aim. HIS reflexes are BETTER than THEIRS

DD on the other hand outright reacts to BULLETS. There is no human element involved any more. There is no chance of being faster than your opponent. There is noscope for human error any more.

It is get out of the way of the bullet or die. You need to be FASTER than the BULLET

So when a person outright reacts in time to hit back the bullet with precision , he is doing WAY better than the person who is moving his body faster than the other guy is adjusting his aim, moving his own arm/finger

#88 Edited by TheGrayGhost (979 posts) - - Show Bio

Again to put things in perspective

Not exactly accurate but

Usain Bolt moves 100 m in about 10 sec

A bullet moves 9 km in 10s

That's the gulf between human speed and bullet speed although I wager reaction speed is going to be much faster

#89 Edited by karimamin (53 posts) - - Show Bio

DD is going to wish he never messed with The Batman! DD loses both rounds in under 30 seconds unless Batman decides to be honorable and fight blind folded himself. Then it may take a minute.

#90 Edited by Thewhitecrownofphoenix_stormforever (445 posts) - - Show Bio

This sounds a little bit in batmans favor

#91 Edited by matchesmalone21 (8980 posts) - - Show Bio

@elzio1: Did you not just see the difference in strength with Batman failing to bench even 600 pounds?

DD flips limos, punches through concrete, bends prison bars

Again I don't think people are getting exactlyWHAT the speed difference means

Allow me to demonstrate

Me: Die Batman fanboys!

You: Not a chance ! I am going to demonstrate that your argument about speed hardly matters at all. And jist to rub in the irony I am going to use this stick to show how it doesn't matter you DD fanboy!

Me: I am not...whatever. get ready I am going to shoot.

You: bring it! I am going to bat it away

(Shoots)

You: Alas ! Who knew bullets could move so mind numbingly fast. And now I bleed. Oh how I bleed...

Batman: shoot me now punk!

(Shoots)

me: arrghh...who knew it would be so difficult to shoot someone moving through the shadows and jumping like crazy!

Batman: thats because I can woth my many years of practice see your aim and guess which way to dodge. See the moment YOU raise YOUR arm, I am already moving. Nvm the times someone like Deadshot hit me anyway. ....

Me: ah...now I see

The difference in bullet timing and aim dodging is HUGE. One involves reacting to a PERSON. The other involves reacting to a BULLET. See Batman can of courde move faster than the vast majority of people can aim. HIS reflexes are BETTER than THEIRS

DD on the other hand outright reacts to BULLETS. There is no human element involved any more. There is no chance of being faster than your opponent. There is noscope for human error any more.

It is get out of the way of the bullet or die. You need to be FASTER than the BULLET

So when a person outright reacts in time to hit back the bullet with precision , he is doing WAY better than the person who is moving his body faster than the other guy is adjusting his aim, moving his own arm/finger

Again talking about Daredevil strength's/striking feats....besides Batman have countless and better feats.

Breaks through a brick wall (Detective Comics 8,New 52)

Ripping out prison bars (Long Hallowen 8)

Bends the barrel of gun.

Want more?

The only person that looks like a fanboy it's you

#92 Edited by TheGrayGhost (979 posts) - - Show Bio

@matchesmalone21:

Again you keep ignoring the biggest factor here which is a lolful difference in speed despite me devoting an entire thread to expound on just HOW much of a gulf there is

Again you keep flipping in and out of new52 and post crisis at will

Bricks are not the same thing as concrete

Ripping out bars shows the bars were fixed loose

Bending the nose of a shotgun is not the same as bending the bars of a prison specially designed to keep in metas

Even disregarding all that Batman has been shown on panel to fail to lift 600 pounds

Daredevil outright flipped a limo and used a 400 g barbell like a bo staff

#93 Posted by TheGrayGhost (979 posts) - - Show Bio

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/51084/1798374-1287698_addbw_super.jpgttp://

static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/51084/1798372-1287707_ddw_super.jpg

I had hoped to end this debate without having to resort to nerve strikes but it seens I will have to start posting them

here your oh so invincible wolverine goes down in one shot

#94 Posted by explodingpineapple (837 posts) - - Show Bio

Might have to say Batman both rounds.

#96 Posted by DigitalShooter9 (1807 posts) - - Show Bio

@digitalshooter9: The limo was NOT already sideways. He still lifted it ans turned it full cycle with AT LEAST 3 people inside( not including the driver) I need scans showing that the limo wasn't already sideways.

If limo flipping was so easy , punks would have been flipping limos all over the countty

I dont see your point

The thing weighs 3 tons

I don't see how the thing is involved here, and he really isn't anywhere near 3 tons. I have seen spiderman flip him like he is a bag of dirt(It was post crisis but whatever) Sure spiderman can lift 3 tons but not flip something as big as the thing and 3 tons. I am getting off-topic here, but what does this have to do with DD in any way?

Even considering half that weight, it massively surpasses anything batman has ever done

To put it into perspective Big Show weighs about 500 pounds

Batman could barely bench that. You DO know the difference between pounds and Kg

Do you even know the slightest about batman? I don't see what makes you think batman can't bench more than 500 pounds... he HAS benched a lot more than that.

Right?

Again Daredevil has easily lifted a 400 pound barbell and used THAT as a weapon swinging it like a bat( the weight is given on panel)

I realise you don't read much Daredevil but you do know his main power right? His RADAR senses( FYI he's batted away bullets without it too)

Radar so he realises when an object is moving from many feet away? Radar so good a guy had to get up on a helicopter many blocks away just so he cannot detect the sniper ? And he only failed THEN as he was fighting Bullseye

Sneak up on him? Dude. DD can hear the heartbeat of a person 50 feet away. And his more insane stuff involve across entire blocks and hearing a man's heart stop 2 floors below him. Sneaking up is NOT an option without PIS( Superman can hear Green arrow halfway across the world and can't hear batman, gimme a break)

Er. DD can bat away bullets after they are fired at point blank range and can't stop a punch?

Why would Batman use a sonic when he doesn't know anything other than DdS fighting style? How many times does he use one in his random fights? You know that sonics work on everyone right? It would just be a LOT more deadly on DD.

More importantly how is he going to get the chance to use one before Dd pressure points him? Igiven DD has shown speed Batman Has NEVER shown unless you are going to use FISH as an eg like that...um fanboy before you.

I have never seen batman get pressure pointed, not even by the top martial artists he fought. I don't see how DD can pressure point someone who has MUCH superior skills. There really is no significant speed difference between the two.

Batman has better striking power? Lol wut? Even Cap Am fans agree DDs nerve strikes and striking power exceed Cap Am Is that why everyone (especially Cap fans) is calling you a troll right now??

Tell me when did Batman ever punch through concrete? He did, many times. Matchesmalone just posted a scan of him demolishing a brick wall.. They might not be same, but if he can do it on a brick wall with ease, he really won't struggle on concrete..

Again you seem to lowball Marvel Characters. Cap Am is as skilled as Batman maybe a little less certainly no huge gulf. He hasn't received about a quarter of the martial arts training bruce did, neither has he stalemated top martial artists in marvel universe as far as I know.

DD is one of the absolute top bracket elite MA artists in Marvel. I won't say he is more or less skilled than Bruce( he seems to be more) but yeah there is again no noticeable gap

You seem to be switching between new52 and post crisis . Please clarify which version you want to use. Both versions can beat DD, especially with prep...

Batman can't counter DDs one shot nerve strikes simply because he has never shown that kind of a speed in comics

As someone mentioned it before, he has blitzed a couple of people and he uses those goddamn nerve strikes at LEAST as much as DD does.

Batman fighting in freezing weather in zero year is highly impressive. DD has fought an entire prison ( AFTER BENDING OPEN HIS CAGE BARS) and 100 members of the Yakuza armed to the teeth with guns, knives and bats without killing any of them. And winning- That is a good feat, but no where near what batman's done. First of all, bruce took on a lot more than 100 people(supposedly the whole Norway until no one who was able to fight was left. And that really is a lot more than 100) He did it for 24 hours in the freezing weather and in the end, everyone thought he was a demon.

#97 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8980 posts) - - Show Bio

@matchesmalone21:

Again you keep ignoring the biggest factor here which is a lolful difference in speed despite me devoting an entire thread to expound on just HOW much of a gulf there is

Again you keep flipping in and out of new52 and post crisis at will

Bricks are not the same thing as concrete

Ripping out bars shows the bars were fixed loose

Bending the nose of a shotgun is not the same as bending the bars of a prison specially designed to keep in metas

Even disregarding all that Batman has been shown on panel to fail to lift 600 pounds

Daredevil outright flipped a limo and used a 400 g barbell like a bo staff

@bigcimmerian @killemall: Could you teach this guy about DD?

#98 Edited by BigCimmerian (8583 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegrayghost said:

@matchesmalone21:

Again you keep ignoring the biggest factor here which is a lolful difference in speed despite me devoting an entire thread to expound on just HOW much of a gulf there is

Again you keep flipping in and out of new52 and post crisis at will

Bricks are not the same thing as concrete

Ripping out bars shows the bars were fixed loose

Bending the nose of a shotgun is not the same as bending the bars of a prison specially designed to keep in metas

Even disregarding all that Batman has been shown on panel to fail to lift 600 pounds

Daredevil outright flipped a limo and used a 400 g barbell like a bo staff

@bigcimmerian @killemall: Could you teach this guy about DD?

I can teach him that Batman is casually bench pressing at least 1200 lbs without spoter lol.

#99 Posted by Elzio1 (120 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegrayghost: dude, no need to be rude, let's make this a polite discussion, you don't have to agree with me, but you should respect another person's opinion. just sayin'

Now, of course DD has the advantadge in speed, but that is his ONLY advantadge, they both have the same strengh, and Batman is more CUNNING, has a better FIGHTING SKILL, and has an overall best GEAR. Bruce also has a huge striking power, just look at some feats:

Batman is able to knock down Killer Croc with ONE PUNCH
The Dark Knight can kick down a steel door easily.

Batman is no slouch when it comes down to agility, he has impressive feats of speed, so it won't be hard for him to hit Daredevil as you think.

He was able to steal the weapons of three henchmen before they could even react

#100 Posted by TDK_1997 (14985 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman over and over again every darn time.