Daredevil/Arrow (TV) vs Captain America (MCU)

@nickzambuto: So Malcolm didn't really beat Nyssa early Season 3 because he only flipped her then ran away, right? That fight must be PIS, since Nyssa beat him later.

You can go ahead and speculate all you want, Cyrus won that fight. Oliver wouldn't have been in any shape to fight him, especially without his bow. Cyrus still got away. Oliver couldn't stop him.

@stormdriven: Headcanon is cool but on the battle board we need to go by facts. Ollie was down but not out. Fight never reached a conclusion.

@nickzambuto: Then let's look at what happened. Cyrus hit him into the crates and left. Oliver didnt get up. Ergo, Cyrus won. The fight ended. That's the conclusion.

But the reason Oliver didn't get up has nothing to do with Cyrus. If I was there and pushed Oliver into that shelf, he also wouldn't have gotten up. It was bad luck, not being outmatched.

@benk111: Thanks for posting that vid!! That is one of the best scenes on TV IMHO!

I agree Steve in a good fight... His meta human status, skill and experience I think would just be too much for the team. We'll see about DD in season 2 though.

@nickzambuto: It had EVERYTHING to do with Cyrus. Cyrus smacked him into the freakin crates. It would have been bad luck if a bucket had fallen on Oliver's head and knocked him out. The syringes didn't just happen to stab Oliver out of nowhere. He was forced into them. No different than if Cyrus had picked him up and thrown him onto a bed of spikes.

Let me ask you this. If I'm fighting someone, I punch them in the face which causes them to fall and hit their head shutting off the lights, did I win the fight or not?

Like I said, if Cyrus did it purposely it would be a win, but he did it completely by accident, ergo Ollie lost by bad luck. If not for those syringes Ollie would have crawled around in pain until he thought about Tommy, and it would have gone exactly like their third encounter, where Ollie proved he was better all along.

I'm afraid I don't understand your example, if they hit their head and the light turned off, they wouldn't be defeated, the lights would just be off.

@nickzambuto: It doesn't matter what Cyrus intended to happen. Because the syringes sticking out of Oliver's leg were a direct result of Cyrus's smack. Also, isn't your assumption about the result without the needles head cannon?

Damn you lmao. I meant if I was winning a fight, I throw a punch, the other person falls (still conscious), then hits their head and THAT knocks them out, did I or did I not win that fight?

Your example is entirely different. In your example, you are knocking your opponent out. In Arrow, Gold did not knock Ollie out, the syringes did.

@nickzambuto: But my punch didn't knock my opponent out, just like Cyrus didn't knock Oliver out. My opponent hitting his head knocked him out, just like the syringes knocked Oliver out.

My punch only caused him to hit something that ended up knocking him out. Cyrus's hit caused Oliver to end up with syringes in his leg, knocking him out. See what I'm saying?

Your opponent falling unconscious was a direct result of the force of your attack. In Arrow, Cyrus Gold had nothing to do with it, replace him with anyone, replace him with me, so long as Ollie falls into that shelf, he gets overdosed.

I think what Nick is saying is Oliver didn't lose the fight because he was out matched but because of environmental factors (the syringes). So while Cyrus did win it wasn't because he was better than Oliver.

@nickzambuto:

Your opponent falling unconscious was a direct result of the force of your attack. In Arrow, Cyrus Gold had nothing to do with it, replace him with anyone, replace him with me, so long as Ollie falls into that shelf, he gets overdosed.

So let me get this straight. If you shove Oliver into those syringes, and he gets knocked out, you don't win the fight?

I can agree with that, but to chalk the fight up to PIS and claim Gold didn't win the fight at all is what I'm arguing.

An honorable man can not call that a win, no siree. It's more like cheating.

I didn't say it was PIS, I said it wasn't a true win.

I mean if you want to argue semantics... OK, Ollie lost that fight. But considering the circumstances surrounding it, I really don't think that "loss" means anything.

@nickzambuto:

An honorable man can not call that a win, no siree. It's more like cheating.

But you didn't know they were there, so you wouldn't be intentionally cheating :P

You basically said it was PIS btw:

It's basically PIS because the writers couldn't have the fight between them be decided just yet.

And it's not arguing semantics, it's arguing the difference between two different outcomes.

Regardless of all that, a loss is still a loss.

Nah.

I think it's just a fight of if Arrow can recognize Cap is metahuman or not in the opening of the fight.

If he does, it's a severe majority for the team.

If he doesn't, it's a severe majority for Cap.

So I could say with an easy conscience that the team wins 8-10/10... but I could very easily be convinced the opposite.

I believe that Arrow recognizes that Cap is a metahuman quickly and easily the large majority of the time.

After watching Age of Ultron, Steve stomps.

If it is current, as in Al Sa-Him arrow, i'll take cap 8/10, down from 10/10 if it is normal arrow

Cap he was powerful in the movie.

Steve takes this.

Steve punches them both through the ozone layer. After AoU, seeing him trading hits with vibranium form Ultron confirms that peak human isn't even close to describing how superhuman Captain America really is in the MCU.

Pre-AoU, i would have seen the team taking a few encounters out of ten.

But after seeing cap tanking ultron's hits, i see cap winning 10/10.

The Ultron that Steve fought was pre-vibranium but still really impressive and very superhuman.

Would be a good fight, but I see Cap winning since he's superior to both in reflexes, experience and he stronger by a good margin.

daredevil nonfactor so it's basically an Arrow vs Capt scenario in long range fight goes to Ollie but since this is a close combat tyoe of scenario Steve takes this at least 7/10 times.

Cap wins 7/10 imo due to shield and hearsay of additional experience from AoU.

Daredevil is too realistic, I believe his batons would do little to Cap, since Cap is wearing his own armor as well, and if Daredevil hit Cap, he might hurt himself.

It would only take a couple of strikes or a direct shield bash to end Matt.

I've only watched clips from Arrow, and like 1 episode, but I can see him surviving longer than Daredevil, since he has some range. I feel like he'd be able to hold cap for a few moments, but I think it would only take a shield throw, which could richoete off of surroundings and hit Oliver a couple of times. And with that, one solid kick could put Oliver down.

I see Oliver and Daredevil lasting a couple of minutes with Steve.

I would say cap but i can imagine the team winning, daredevil distracts cap (murdoks knows how to take a beating ) while oliver waits for the moments to throw at trick arrow to his face.

Cap 6.5/10

in winter soldier sam wilson calculated steve ran 13 miles in half an hour Cap charges in and beats both in a good fight.

Team 5.1/10 times

Neither pose a threat individually

2 x 0 = 0

Cap should take this after a good fight.