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#1 Posted by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio

VS.

Talked about this in the Elektra and Punisher thread, thought this would be a better debate.

Here's the situation:

The U.S. government has found out that Bruce Wayne is spying on them and they have sent in Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow to gather intel. Meanwhile SHIELD has also noticed Bruce's prying eyes and seek to learn more about the information. With their usual agents and assets spread thin they decide to call in Elektra and Daredevil to get the job done. Meeting each other within Wayne Manor they mistake the others for enemies and begin a no holds barred fight to the death (or KO). They begin 50 feet apart on opposite sides of the room pictured below. The boundaries are the Manor itself. If anyone leaves the building they are disqualified from the battle. Naturally all combatants are in character.

#2 Posted by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio

Not a single argument?

#3 Posted by ChildoftheAtom (485 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with elektra and daredevil. It would be a wicked foght

#4 Posted by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with elektra and daredevil. It would be a wicked foght

My thoughts exactly. It would be a long, drawn out hell of a battle, though I think the Joe Ninjas would win.

#5 Posted by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Edited by MonsterStomp (15184 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm always keen to back the ninja's.

It'll be a good fight, but I think Matt would be more of a challenge than Elektra.

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#7 Posted by Wolverine08 (38002 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel that Elektra s something of a weak link here. Matt can easily go one on one with either guy here, but not se if I'd say the same for Elektra.

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#8 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde said:

Not a single argument?

They locked the other thread so I figured I would answer your question about Elektra's scream being used in this thread (if that's okay?).

I am going with no, she hasn't used it more than once although it's been suggested. Suggested does not equate definite so I am not going to waste anyone's time in arguing over what "looks like" and "could be" etc. She has demonstrated some definite chi-based abilities that can be described as telekinetic though.

As for this fight -- I say it's brutal. Physically and skill-wise, this is a really great match up. If Elektra has access to her telepathy, etc, then it would be unfair in Team One's favour.

#9 Edited by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel that Elektra s something of a weak link here. Matt can easily go one on one with either guy here, but not se if I'd say the same for Elektra.

Really?

#10 Edited by MonsterStomp (15184 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:
Matt can easily go one on one with either guy here

I wouldn't say "easily". These ninja's are master combatants of their respective universe. Its arguable who'd win.

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#11 Posted by GraniteSoldier (6668 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde said:

@childoftheatom said:

I'm going with elektra and daredevil. It would be a wicked foght

My thoughts exactly. It would be a long, drawn out hell of a battle, though I think the Joe Ninjas would win.

I agree. I'm siding with the ninjas again. I honestly think Snake Eyes can take Daredevil in a very, very long fight. I think Storm Shadow can take Elektra as well, again a long fight (although not as close or long as Snake vs Devil). On the flip, I don't see Elektra fairing as well against Snake as I do against Shadow. Shadow should go 50/50 against Matt, perhaps even edge slightly. I think it boils down to the Joes will end up in the eventual 2 v 1, and it's all down hill for the Marvel team from there.

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#12 Edited by Wolverine08 (38002 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@wolverine08 said:

I feel that Elektra s something of a weak link here. Matt can easily go one on one with either guy here, but not se if I'd say the same for Elektra.

Really?

Physicality is the problem here in my opinion. She has the means to hang quite well skill wise, but I think Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow bring an edge with their own physicals. Granted, everyone here is superhuman like every regular comic book human is, but Snake and Shadow are playing around with what would be considered superhuman even for a comic book human here.

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#13 Posted by Wolverine08 (38002 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:
Matt can easily go one on one with either guy here

I wouldn't say "easily". These ninja's are master combatants of their respective universe. Its arguable who'd win.

I didn't say it wasn't arguable. Just that Matt most definitely has what it takes to hang with, or possibly beat either Joe here. It would most definitely be a hard fight.

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#14 Posted by ChildoftheAtom (485 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde: i feel like DD is just a much better fighter with his physicals and powers it would be hard for them to even tag him. there speed is about equal so they can get him a few times but other than that DD can take either. Elektra will go more even with either and possibly lose but if u back her into a corner they would have to deal with silent scream or telepathy. Still she is the deadliest assassin in the world by a wide margin.

#15 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@wolverine08 said:

I feel that Elektra s something of a weak link here. Matt can easily go one on one with either guy here, but not se if I'd say the same for Elektra.

Really?

Physicality is the problem here in my opinion. She has the means to hang quite well skill wise, but I think Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow bring an edge with their own physicals. Granted, everyone here is superhuman like every regular comic book human is, but Snake and Shadow are playing around with what would be considered superhuman even for a comic book human here.

Elektra is incredibly strong, if that's what you mean by physicality?

#16 Posted by Wolverine08 (38002 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@wolverine08 said:

@lykopis said:

@wolverine08 said:

I feel that Elektra s something of a weak link here. Matt can easily go one on one with either guy here, but not se if I'd say the same for Elektra.

Really?

Physicality is the problem here in my opinion. She has the means to hang quite well skill wise, but I think Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow bring an edge with their own physicals. Granted, everyone here is superhuman like every regular comic book human is, but Snake and Shadow are playing around with what would be considered superhuman even for a comic book human here.

Elektra is incredibly strong, if that's what you mean by physicality?

I've seen her strength feats actually and she is indeed quite strong, but my point was that the Joes are step up physically. If I had to compare them to anyone physically, I'd place them by a low level superhuman like Captain America. Even Daredevil is arguably outclassed physically here, and he's made a career out of batting away bullets with his billy club after they have been fired. I'm pretty sure @lunacyde can give a more comprehensive break down of their physicals.

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#17 Edited by GraniteSoldier (6668 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

@wolverine08 said:
Matt can easily go one on one with either guy here

I wouldn't say "easily". These ninja's are master combatants of their respective universe. Its arguable who'd win.

I didn't say it wasn't arguable. Just that Matt most definitely has what it takes to hang with, or possibly beat either Joe here. It would most definitely be a hard fight.

Without his radar, Matt wouldn't fair nearly as well. I think Matt's good, but definitely not on Snake's tier. His radar sense is a big help here. It's let him hang with guys above him plenty of times in the past.

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#18 Posted by Wolverine08 (38002 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@monsterstomp said:

@wolverine08 said:
Matt can easily go one on one with either guy here

I wouldn't say "easily". These ninja's are master combatants of their respective universe. Its arguable who'd win.

I didn't say it wasn't arguable. Just that Matt most definitely has what it takes to hang with, or possibly beat either Joe here. It would most definitely be a hard fight.

Without his radar, Matt wouldn't fair nearly as well. I think Matt's good, but definitely not on Snake's tier. His radar sense is a big help here. It's let him hang with guys above him plenty of times in the past.

Not in Snake's in what category if I may ask? Haven't seen anything that makes him more skilled, has better reflexes, or stronger than Matt.

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#19 Edited by GraniteSoldier (6668 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Matt isn't nearly as aggressive. I am talking about tier of a fighter. Matt may be near Snake's skill, but Matt is a much "easier going" (for lack of a better term) fighter. Snake goes for the quick, clean take down. He's more aggressive, and doesn't hold back nearly as much. He isn't prone to arrogance or underestimating an opponent. He's in his own tier in his own universe, with Storm Shadow being the number 2. Matt's reflexes always seem to be an implication of his radar sense (from what of read). He's obviously fast, but he's reacting to things before they happen. Hearing the pulling of a trigger, the swing of a bat, the spacial distortion that occurs with such movements, and is reacting to an event before it happens (like spider-sense in a way). That's Matt's x-factor to contend with Snake. Here, obviously, he has it; but without it I think he'd still put up a good fight, it'd just be a bit more one-sided.

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#20 Edited by MonsterStomp (15184 posts) - - Show Bio

IDW unfortunately suffers from top tier fighters, but that shouldn't really take away anything from Snake or Storm. I know more about Snake Eyes than Storm, but Snake has beaten people around his level before. Actually, Snake almost always beats people on his level, including Storm Shadow. Both ninja's can casually deflect bullets like Wade Wilson was doing on X-Men: Origins. Their stealth is unparalleled. I've seen Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow disappear within the midst of combat and appear all over the place like they had some crazy teleportation abilities. Their lethality and loose morals also give them an edge. These guys don't toy around, like ever.

Obviously I'm going for the ninja's but it'd be a very close fight.

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#21 Posted by Wolverine08 (38002 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: I wouldn't say that it's a lack of aggression per say, it's just that Matt has a top tier fighting style based around an extreme amount of avoidance and agility in his hands. He'll be trying to take you down, but it's more in a fluid, ballerina like way in comparison to someone like lets say Wolverine who just straight bulldogs his way into opponents. Fair point about the Radar Sense/reflexes though. Matt even noted in his Man Without Fear series by Frank Miller that he feels bullets before they reach him, giving him the split second edge needed.

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#22 Posted by GraniteSoldier (6668 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Well Snake shares many similarities with Daredevil in combat (hence why the fight would be AWESOME) in that he's very mobile and acrobatic (although not as flashy as Matt). He just doesn't use it to wear an opponent down like Daredevil, he doesn't really need to, he shanks you. In the face. It hurts. It would be a great fight though between two weapon masters. Snake and his blades vs Daredevil and his escrima sticks (I know their billy clubs, but escrima sounds better).

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#23 Edited by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@lykopis said:

@wolverine08 said:

@lykopis said:

@wolverine08 said:

I feel that Elektra s something of a weak link here. Matt can easily go one on one with either guy here, but not se if I'd say the same for Elektra.

Really?

Physicality is the problem here in my opinion. She has the means to hang quite well skill wise, but I think Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow bring an edge with their own physicals. Granted, everyone here is superhuman like every regular comic book human is, but Snake and Shadow are playing around with what would be considered superhuman even for a comic book human here.

Elektra is incredibly strong, if that's what you mean by physicality?

I've seen her strength feats actually and she is indeed quite strong, but my point was that the Joes are step up physically. If I had to compare them to anyone physically, I'd place them by a low level superhuman like Captain America. Even Daredevil is arguably outclassed physically here, and he's made a career out of batting away bullets with his billy club after they have been fired. I'm pretty sure @lunacyde can give a more comprehensive break down of their physicals.

Understood. Considering everyone's skills here, saying it would come down to who can last the longest is fair. It would get boring after the first few days though. :P

#24 Edited by hyperbertha (1273 posts) - - Show Bio

@childoftheatom said:

I'm going with elektra and daredevil. It would be a wicked foght

This.

and I'm very glad you mentioned tp and Silentscream. You're so much smarter than so many others in a particular thread i can link...... :)

#25 Posted by hyperbertha (1273 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@wolverine08 said:

@lykopis said:

@wolverine08 said:

@lykopis said:

@wolverine08 said:

I feel that Elektra s something of a weak link here. Matt can easily go one on one with either guy here, but not se if I'd say the same for Elektra.

Really?

Physicality is the problem here in my opinion. She has the means to hang quite well skill wise, but I think Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow bring an edge with their own physicals. Granted, everyone here is superhuman like every regular comic book human is, but Snake and Shadow are playing around with what would be considered superhuman even for a comic book human here.

Elektra is incredibly strong, if that's what you mean by physicality?

I've seen her strength feats actually and she is indeed quite strong, but my point was that the Joes are step up physically. If I had to compare them to anyone physically, I'd place them by a low level superhuman like Captain America. Even Daredevil is arguably outclassed physically here, and he's made a career out of batting away bullets with his billy club after they have been fired. I'm pretty sure @lunacyde can give a more comprehensive break down of their physicals.

Understood. Considering everyone's skills here, saying it would come down to who can last the longest is fair. It would get boring after the first few days though. :P

xD I think I'll need to copy paste all my comments from that other thread here too. Then we'll see who disrespects Elektra.

#26 Posted by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio

@hyperbertha:

There is no Elektra disrespect here. Everyone thus far has said it would be a brutal and exciting fight. Some think the Joes edge it and some think Elektra and DD scrape by with a win. If you care to engage in debate I am completely open to it.

As for the silent scream I have already explained why it isn't to be used in debate here. Storm Shadow and Snake-Eyes also have rare special abilities like hypnotizing enemies, a "death touch" that kills enemies with a single blow among other things, but I'm not going to resort to saying they use these abilities because they don't consistently show them in fights.

#27 Edited by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde:

Physically and martial arts wise there is nothing Elektra can do that the ninjas couldn't match.

#29 Posted by MonsterStomp (15184 posts) - - Show Bio

@an_hour_of_wolves

Storm Shadow deflects all of Helix's shots. Keep in mind, Helix can access limitless tactical possibilities in seconds. She has stated that she never misses.

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#30 Edited by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by MonsterStomp (15184 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde: Its possible that the scan I posted wasn't of Storm Shadow deflecting bullets. Looks like Helix was just sizing him up. But Storm Shadow clearly had intentions of deflecting bullets. Never mind, thanks for the back up :)

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#32 Posted by Cable_Extreme (7940 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2

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#33 Posted by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde: Its possible that the scan I posted wasn't of Storm Shadow deflecting bullets. Looks like Helix was just sizing him up. But Storm Shadow clearly had intentions of deflecting bullets. Never mind, thanks for the back up :)

Yeah, from my understanding what that was showing was that with Helix's abilities she could tell no matter where she shot he would deflect it. IN some ways that scan is actually better maybe lol.

#34 Edited by An_Hour_of_Wolves (3 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice try guys but bullets from an automatic assault rifle travel much faster than handgun bullets.

#35 Edited by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice try guys but bullets from an automatic assault rifle travel much faster than handgun bullets.

Using that logic she also had more time to see them given she was at greater distance.

#36 Posted by MonsterStomp (15184 posts) - - Show Bio

@an_hour_of_wolves: Maybe the rate of fire, but bullets don't move faster. Plus, Helix has to be one of the best sharpshooters in IDW.

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#37 Edited by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio
@monsterstomp said:

@an_hour_of_wolves: Maybe the rate of fire, but bullets don't move faster. Plus, Helix has to be one of the best sharpshooters in IDW.

Actually it is true that in general rifle bullets do travel faster than handgun bullets due to their shape, size, the aspects of their cartridges, and the amount of powder in the cartridges. However it doesn't make a significant enough difference to give Elektra an edge here, especially when Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow have dodges gunfire from sources with bullets that travel just as fast if not faster than the Elektra example.

#38 Posted by MonsterStomp (15184 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp:

Can I add that in that scan A.) He chops off the head of a B.A.T. with his bare hands. B.) Just prior to this he was subjected to a process that would leave a normal human unable to move for hours.

#40 Posted by MonsterStomp (15184 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde: You don't have to tell me ;P

The androids were also ordered to kill him if he flinches and Snake just outright blitzed the suckers, haha.

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#41 Edited by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp:

Also here's the scan I wanted the other night of him disappearing on Helix.

#42 Posted by IcePrince_X (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

I am siding with Matt and Elektra here, though it will be a long battle.

#43 Posted by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio

I am siding with Matt and Elektra here, though it will be a long battle.

Why?

#44 Posted by IcePrince_X (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

Storm vs Elektra = Elektra: they have the same skill set but speed wise and her tp gives Elektra the edge.

Daredevil vs Snake = near draw but put elektra in the fight it will tilt to the marvel team.

Also marvel team has enough fight experience with ninjas and martial artists some of which even has mystical powers.

#45 Edited by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio

@iceprince_x:

How often does Elektra utilize her TP? How much of an edge can it give her? What are some fights vs skilled martial artists where she has used it and how much did it help her?

Snakes and Storm are not standard ninjas. snake-Eyes cut through ninjas who are the same level as the typical ninjas DD and Elektra face, and they were literally like children to him. I can post the scan later if needed.

#46 Posted by MonsterStomp (15184 posts) - - Show Bio

Also marvel team has enough fight experience with ninjas and martial artists.

These are not your typical martial artists. Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow are the finest ninja's in their clan.

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#47 Edited by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio

Finest ninjas....he'll finest fighters in their world. These two are both considered more dangerous and valuable than a nuke. An old master said SE had the greatest mastery of form and magnitude of chi he's ever seen. The Cyborg ninjas considered Storm Shadow a level 10 threat, and Snake was off the charts.

#48 Edited by Wolverine08 (38002 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil solos.

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#49 Edited by IcePrince_X (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde: not like the silent scream you eternally despised lol. But she had used it in more than one fight and in different comic books.

@monsterstomp I acknowledge snake and storm as they are but Elektra is also the best of her clan and Daredevil has fought characters more powerful than him and win. Same with Elektra...this is actually a close fight.

#50 Posted by Lunacyde (17609 posts) - - Show Bio