Dante vs Death vs Kratos

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NeonGameWave

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#101  Edited By NeonGameWave

@reikai said:

@neongamewave:

Yes he did, it was a light based laser beam even when you read the DMC 2 Prep-point Novel its further referenced since Dante encounters Mundus again in another reality and has grown so strong that his attacks seem like nothing to him, their energy attacks but it doesn`t change the fact that their lasers and lasers are light-speed.

At no point is it stated as a laser beam, nor mentioned in DMC1 to be "light energy". And if you have said novel, then by all means whip it out and give us a quote. I mean I've read the two official novels by Capcom, and the manga, and played DMC1-3, watched all of 4's cutscenes and the entire animated series, and no sign of Mundus since the 1st game.

It is a laser beam it fired and represented itself as a laser beam would be showcased, fair enough, so have I and the novel is canon, I believe its Devil May Cry: Volume 2, I`ll see if I can resource it somewhere.

Claiming them to be lasers isn't the same as them being lasers. Unless it specifically says that, then they're not lasers.

Their lasers and even if their not lasers by the standard you afford them it doesn`t change the fact that they are in fact light energy moving at light speed.

The difference between Arius and Beowulf as light-users is significant because my point was that Dante actually dodged a full blown light engaged attack, Beowulf did in fact channel light energy but he used it primarily for brute force offense and defense, Arius utilized it differently

You do realize your explanation makes no sense as it shouldn't matter if Beowulf was using it for brute force or not that if he's using Light Energy then he should be moving at lightspeed regardless, yet we know for a fact that's not happening.Neither is Arius lightspeed. There is no indication at any point in those fights, both Dante and Lucia side, that he is anything remotely close to lightspeed.

It made perfect sense considering I have DMC 3 and DMC 2, I completed both, Beowulf did not even utilize the light energy for movement he used his own beast-based mobility he moved on his legs and used animal instincts he utilized light energy in the form of the gauntlets in all honesty your point wouldn`t make sense about him supposed to be moving at a certain rate of speed when it was already confirmed in-game, in-lore and in common knowledge that the energy strikes were being used within the gauntlets its like saying why isn`t Runner running as fast as light when he`s using an item that formulates itself as a stored vehicle for that mechanism to be put to use.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree, but I really like and respect your reasoning :)

@106me:

Light = heat = energy.

No, it doesn't. Light is a form of energy, but does not specifically generate heat

to dodge a laser or any form of light (not aim dodging), you have to be FTL

Not really no. And claiming it's lightspeed isn't the same as having evidence to prove that claim. As of yet I've seen none beyond saying it's "Light Energy", which has been another term for Holy Energy in DMC and most other fictions. Saying Light Energy is lightspeed is the same as saying every Paladin in WoW has Lightspeed attacks because their spells/abilities use Light Energy.

Dr. Light (Villain) in Teen Titans uses Light Energy yet all of his attacks aren't remotely lightspeed and get dodged all the time. If we followed that line of reasoning then every Ki attack in DB/Z is lightspeed because it generates heat and appears as forms of light and must therefore be lightspeed, even though this isn't remotely proven until much later in the series.

How is Sora stronger than Dante? He's literally outclassed in every ability by Dante, maybe save for his elemental magic abilities.

Sora and Riku both have actual laser dodging/deflecting feats, and besting an actual reality warper in the form of Anslem. Dante is still cooler, but Sora is just haxed.

but developers make up what's cost effective and what's not, so we won't know for sure.

The unfortunate truth is that most Dev and Companies will put out a product to make their money back asap, and adding in "extra features" would be unnecessary unless they see something is selling well enough, then they just put it in as DLC content so they can make players pay more for what otherwise would've already been in the game.

It's also unfortunate that many games are pushed out before they're completed and fleshed out, which is the bane of many an MMO as well as Single-Player games that could've been epic, but ended up garbage because the Devs and Company owners decided to just push it out to make a quick buck. Like what happened with Duke Nukem: Forever. They changed almost nothing from how it was being made 10yrs earlier before Gearbox bought the license for it and when they put it out with minor tweeks it was just a load of crap.

And a lot of RPG's could be a lot better, but most companies rely on making them look pretty than giving us a decent story. Older RPG's tend to have far better stories than most current ones, and there are some RPG's that would've been better off just being done as a CGI animated series as opposed to a game, since you spend most of the time Watching cutscenes than playing the game, like with Xenosaga. Not that I didn't enjoy it, but you did more sitting and watching than actually playing.

I can name 20 heralds who aren't lightspeed. And besides, I was refering to combat speed, and not even Superman is lightspeed in combat

Pre-52 he was. Mongul the 2nd taught him to release his mental restraints and could fight at lightspeed, and pushed beyond that to even fighting with Wonder Woman in flight while moving at 8xLightspeed.

Also, all Galactus Heralds are FTL. You could say someone has Herald level power, but then they'd have to be Star Busters and above. Given any G-Herald can ignite a supernova.

If you don't believe Dante is lightspeed, that's fine

It's simply that I'm looking for Definitive Evidence of this than suggesting and assuming that using the term "light energy" automatically make things Lightspeed, when that is not the case and nothing in the games, manga or novels that I have read would indicate anything like this.

It's why I don't say Death is a lightspeeder just because Angels in Darksiders use Light energy in all their weapons and magic and say because he dodged their cannonfire and rifles would mean he's lightspeed. From what I observed in games, comics and the Novel, that is simply not indicated nor even implied. So there's no way I'd even try to claim that.

Not even when Archon Lucien used the Rod of Arafel to spread Light across the region to destroy the darkness surrounding the distant city in Lostlight, or when he used it as a weapon against Death during their fight.

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Mercules

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#102  Edited By Mercules

I came to argue for Dante and Death because I truly believe Kratos doesn't quite match up. Don't be mistaken, he's a thug in all senses but I think he's just simply outmatched here. Anyways, I digress, I came to argue for D&D but @reikai has that pretty much covered. @106me has also thrown in awesome arguments. Both will get a follow/sub from me for being calm, respectable, mature arguers (I don't know any other way to word it.)

I do want to add (I don't quite think it matters at this point) that Death has fought creatures older than heaven and hell. I.e. Makers. War killed four extremely powerful eldritch monsters from the abyss. (The four guardians or w/e) and Death is incredibly more powerful than War. Death is nigh invulnerable and that's with out his reaper form or the seals being broken. I think Death could take Dante in his reaper form with the seals broken. Otherwise I'd give to Dante 6/10. Also like Reikai has said, Death's combat experience is pretty much untouched in comparison to Kratos or Dante.

Take this with a pinch of salt though. I know more about GoW and DS then DMC. So I'm not studied up on my Dante.

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Morbid_Pyro

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@batman242: yup I made this thread and choose the winner ! Got a prob with that? It's my opinion.

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MethoKi

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@batman242: yup I made this thread and choose the winner ! Got a prob with that? It's my opinion.

It shows that no matter how good people like @reikai, @neongamewave, and @106me's arguments were, you'd still pick Kratos and say he'd beat them both.... which is being biased. Especially when you're making ridiculous and ludicrous claims and not supporting them with not even a shred of proof or evidence and denying all facts and feats practically being thrown in your face.

I don't have a problem in the slightest. You want to be ignorant, so be it.

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Morbid_Pyro

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#105  Edited By Morbid_Pyro

@batman242: don't judge me because you don't know me and I support them all I don't need to do so cause imo I think Kratos wins that doesn't mean I'm right! that's my opinion it's either you accept it or not it's your choice.

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MethoKi

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@batman242: don't judge me because you don't know me and I support them all I don't need to do so cause imo I think Kratos wins that doesn't mean I'm right! that's my opinion it's either you accept it or not it's your choice.

Who was judging you? I surely wasn't. If you felt as if I was, I apologize.
When I said ignorant, I simply meant the fact that you ignored all logic and still sided with Kratos. Again, I'm sorry.

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Morbid_Pyro

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#107  Edited By Morbid_Pyro

@batman242: Fist bump I respect you for what you just posted bro ^^ and these kind of people are easily forgiven and I consider you as a real man for those kind words that you said ^^ and for that I choose Dante looool haha just kidding I might change my mind but till now I'm still sticking with Kratos ^^

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106me

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#108  Edited By 106me

@reikai:

I know I didn't cover all the points I promised I would cover, but I spent a lot of time on the last post I was going to make about this, and everytime I would come to this thread I would get in a bad mood and leave. So, finally, here it is.

No, it doesn't. Light is a form of energy, but does not specifically generate heat

Directly? No, but because of efficiency and energy transfering and several other factors, it does. But a whole book can be wrote about that and since is is irrelavent I won't go into that.

Sora and Riku both have actual laser dodging/deflecting feats, and besting an actual reality warper in the form of Anslem.

Well, first of all, that was actually Xemnas.

Second, that wasn't an FTL feat. Ethereal is not a laser, it's actually Diethyl Ether. Diethyl Ether is an organic compound in the ether class (obviously) and is a very hot, flammable, liquid. It's also colorless and odorless, which makes sense on why people may think of Diethyl Ether as almost an "other worldly" or "ghostly" object, which gets us to Ethereal.

So, Sora and Riku were not reflecting or blocking lasers, they were parrying Diethyl Ether.

but Sora is just haxed.

I disagree. The only thing from preventing Sora to be just another generic final fantasy character with fancy magic is his keyblade, IMO.

You could say someone has Herald level power, but then they'd have to be Star Busters and above. Given any G-Herald can ignite a supernova.

I disagree. If that were the case, then logically Hulk vs Spiderman, or B.E. Iron Man vs Spiderman would be a good fight (because the Hulk and B.E. Iron Man would both be considered Meta by those standards). This is not really relevant though.

It's simply that I'm looking for Definitive Evidence of this than suggesting and assuming that using the term "light energy" automatically make things Lightspeed, when that is not the case and nothing in the games, manga or novels that I have read would indicate anything like this.

@neongamewave: I think you might be interested for this part.

Loading Video...

This is my main point for why Dante (DMC 2) is lightspeed. Arius was emitting something before he launched his light projectile. It was emitting different colors. This is an interesting observation, because what that was, is known to us as refraction. Refraction (in light) is when light waves traveling from one medium to another change direction, while maintaing a constant frequency. Thus, it reveals different colors in a rainbow-like manor. (This is a really simplified version of refraction, but so that other, less mature, users can understand this, I have simplified this the best I can).

So what Dante was reacting to was most certainly a light attack, because of the light refraction Arius was emitting.

Now, before I finish, I know this is somewhat underwhelming considering the hype I gave it, but I am unable to re-post everything I was going to post originally.. I also know that this looks rushed compared to my previous post, but for now, this is all I am able to post until I get more motivation for finishing this battle thread. I would also like to request that if you are going to deny Dante's lightspeed feat, which is fine, but please provide evidence proving why it wouldn't be a light attack without comparing it to another game.

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NeonGameWave

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@106me: You make phenomenal arguments also I really respect and admire the way you shaped your explanations regarding Dante and the fact that he is lightspeed as I agree :)

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deactivated-5cc9f423d4bb9

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Death vs Dante = 50:50

Kratos > Dante + Death

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106me

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leonkarlen123

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Round 1 Kratos

Round 2 Kratos stomps Dante. Maybe Death to but The Schyte vs Blade of Olympus is arguable...

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Jmarshmallow

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@106me: You guys have been making some great arguments, you, @reikai and @neongamewave.

I've been trying to stay out of this, because I've enjoyed watching all of you guys go at it.

But when someone tries to debunk MY guy, then I have to step in! xD

Sora is most definitely, without a doubt, FTL. His reaction speeds at least.

I liked your take on how the Ethereal Blades weren't actual lasers, but a very specific chemical compound. Very smart my friend.

However, I must disagree. Your summary is pure speculation, as it never once calls those blades Diethyl Ether.

In fact, the game states the exact opposite of your claims. In the scene where Xemnas summons the omnidirectional assault, read the quest-hint text box in the top left corner.

Then you shall understand Nonbeliever! :)

Jmarshmallow

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NeonGameWave

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#114  Edited By NeonGameWave

@106me: @jmarshmallow: @reikai @nickzambuto@colliderz

For more proof on why Dante is indeed lightspeed and has always had the potential to unlock this speed as hinted within earlier installments when he was already confirmed as being massively hypersonic as I have another observation that furthers the fact that lasers actually exist within the world of DMC and its understanding, is by keen knowledge the Damned Rook of the Damned Chessmen the dimensional demon chess pieces that challenge Dante during the events of DMC 3.

The Damned Rook specifically is noted and confirmed as having the ability to shoot lasers, actual lasers! And lasers move at the speed of light, it legitimately even produces the sound of lasers too! Many might argue that it is gameplay mechanics but that is not true in any sense, Dante actually has demonstrated his back-up of breakthrough truth in the cutscenes that coincide concisely with that of the lore itself and his overall character to always having the personalized speed to be classified as someone who can achieve lightspeed.

Loading Video...

0:45 - 0:48

The Damned Rook is also slow, but is very powerful and can summon other pieces. Like a real rook, it can only move horizontally or vertically, but it can also switch places with the Damned King when it castles. It attacks by opening up its body and firing lasers down its lanes of movement.

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Jmarshmallow

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#115  Edited By Jmarshmallow

@neongamewave: Oh, don't get me wrong mate.

It is my firm belief that Dante reacts at lightspeed.

I was just defending Sora xD

By I never even thought about the Damned Rook.

Well played Neon, well played.

Jmarshmallow

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The_Titan_Lord

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Dante.

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106me

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#117  Edited By 106me

@neongamewave: That's smart finding that enemy file. It authenticates his lightspeed achievements. I really gotta give you credit for finding all these enemy files. I just wouldn't even know where to start with them. :)

@106me: You guys have been making some great arguments, you, @reikai and @neongamewave.

I've been trying to stay out of this, because I've enjoyed watching all of you guys go at it.

But when someone tries to debunk MY guy, then I have to step in! xD

Sora is most definitely, without a doubt, FTL. His reaction speeds at least.

I liked your take on how the Ethereal Blades weren't actual lasers, but a very specific chemical compound. Very smart my friend.

However, I must disagree. Your summary is pure speculation, as it never once calls those blades Diethyl Ether.

In fact, the game states the exact opposite of your claims. In the scene where Xemnas summons the omnidirectional assault, read the quest-hint text box in the top left corner.

Then you shall understand Nonbeliever! :)

Jmarshmallow

lol Sorry, I just had to prove to Rekai how people can differentiate who is lightspeed and who is not. Actually, I was expecting @reikai to be the one to throw in the in-game description argument (to which, I may or may not have had a certain counter). I'm actually a fan of Sora too and know all about KH, I just had to prove my point.

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Jmarshmallow

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@106me: Ah, I see.

Continue! xD

Jmarshmallow

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EzioRenzo

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@morbid_pyro: You know, if you didnt believe Dante could win, there is much ways to put it.

Dante got Yamato, simply a haxx weps cuz he can slash dimensions and space.

Dante have royal guard invincibility, Dreadnaught, rendering all attacks are useless in a matter of time though(RG Gauge).

Dante got majin form, read the DMC3 manga or play DMC2 to put the power on words.

Dante have the Amulets, Keys to Hell.

And finally, Dante have the powers of his father, Sparda, after unlocking the power of his pops sword.

get my point across?

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ComputerAssistedBiologicalAugmentedLifeform

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I_Am_Lightning

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Dante Sparda

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ComputerAssistedBiologicalAugmentedLifeform

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Death stomps

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colliderz

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Dante stomps big time

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ElderSkaar

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Kratos at full power has the power of the gods, he was standing at what? Like 200 ft tall or more and the blade of olympus wiped out armies and titans with just swings.

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ComputerAssistedBiologicalAugmentedLifeform

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@elderskaar: Death had killed countless powerful beings in the game, the greek gods are punks.

Dante is stronger than Kratos, ya know.

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ElderSkaar

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@elderskaar: Death had killed countless powerful beings in the game, the greek gods are punks.

Dante is stronger than Kratos, ya know.

stronger like physically stronger? Kratos has resisted being crushed by Cronos who is a mountain sized being, easily a 10.000 ton feat

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ComputerAssistedBiologicalAugmentedLifeform

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@elderskaar: Think again, bigger does not mean stronger.

Death powered with Seven seals will be a godstomp.

Loading Video...

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I_Am_Lightning

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Dante due to time stop and hax powers.

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ElderSkaar

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@computerassistedbiologicalaugm: All he did was cutting of some mechanical beasts arm in that trailer, Kratos killed a being 20 times that ones size here. And this is not even Kratos at his full power.

Loading Video...

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Direflash

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#131  Edited By Direflash

@elderskaar:

And what Kratos did? Jumped around one slowass giant and went inside of him to stap a vital organs?? Sorry but that is a empty feat against a foe who is durable, strong and fast as Death. Marks nothing really in here.

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ComputerAssistedBiologicalAugmentedLifeform

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@elderskaar: Death in his Reaper Mode is extremely powerful, and almost invulnerable to fight against.

Death also has time manipulation like Dante, and he can't stand against the Seven Seals Death.

Because it is when Death is absolutely almost-omnipotent for his destiny to destroy and kill.

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ElderSkaar

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@elderskaar:

And what Kratos did? Jumped around one slowass giant and went inside of him to stap a vital organs?? Sorry but that is a empty feat against a foe who is durable, strong and fast as Death. Marks nothing really in here.

He is not slow, he just looks slow because he is so big. What did Kratos do?

  • Falling over 300 ft unharmed
  • Held away from being crushed by one arm
  • Smashed diamond to pieces with his gloves
  • Made superhuman leaps
  • Stabbed through his ultra thick layer of flesh and skin
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Direflash

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#134  Edited By Direflash

@elderskaar:

It is still slow, the distance is only greater so there is much more reaction time. You call that leap from the hand to another somehow great feat amongst these three? Cronos was no even half serious when he hold Kratos on his fingertips.

Seriously GoW bossbattles are not that impressive as they seem. Mostly he is just dodgin the attacks, leaping place to another and slashing vital points. His strenght is surely great, but that really does not go the same againts the regular mobs. Fighting giant like that who can't even lay hand on you is not really the same as going against someone with huge strikinpower and who can tag you and lay 10 strikes on you in few seconds.

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ElderSkaar

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@direflash: What are you talking about? Cronos wanted to kill Kratos because he had slain Gaia, hear his mad tone as well he speak with. You think Death can slay a mountain sized titan without attacking the weak poknts? Your drunk

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Direflash

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@elderskaar:

Well he sounds at first overly arrogant, so it seems he is not going at fullest in the begining of the fight.

And no, Im not saying he can do that, but im sure both Death and Dante could kill Cronos as well. Im just making comparisons about fighting against a slow chunck or someone who really can lay a finger on you multiple times.

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adamTRMM

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Dam, I'd read that titke-crossover.

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ElderSkaar

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@elderskaar:

Well he sounds at first overly arrogant, so it seems he is not going at fullest in the begining of the fight.

And no, Im not saying he can do that, but im sure both Death and Dante could kill Cronos as well. Im just making comparisons about fighting against a slow chunck or someone who really can lay a finger on you multiple times.

Just for a thought.. Kratos is not slow as people seem to think he is, the Boots of Hermes allows him to blitz enemies in blur speed, also he is pretty acrobatic making flips and stuffs.

Loading Video...

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ProfZ

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Why are people bringing up feats outside of Darksiders 2, DMC 4, or God of War 1? That's what the OP says, not composite so we assume he just means those games.

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MeleeGod

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Death wins via no seals

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106me

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Ha ha, I totally forgot about this thread. The nostalgia is real. :')

Better re-post the scene since the video seems to be gone.

Loading Video...

@meleegod said:

Death wins via no seals

1) Don't bump a thread without putting any significant thought into your post.

2) Seals are featless so far.

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Flyingcliffs

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#142  Edited By Flyingcliffs

Kratos > Dante > Death

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Shinjiro

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NinjaWarrior268

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Either Death or Dante

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MeleeGod

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Death

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