@neongamewave: None of those feats have been retconned, and Mephisto was created to be a character on that level, Silver Surfer: Judgment Day shows that, and I showed Lord Nekron creating his own Cosmos which means Universe stated ON PANEL and he created a infinite space and numerous dimensions, which is above what Mundus did, and he is below Mephisto since his powers were given by Satannish which is equal to Mephisto.
@neongamewave: None of those feats have been retconned, and Mephisto was created to be a character on that level, Silver Surfer: Judgment Day shows that, and I showed Lord Nekron creating his own Cosmos which means Universe stated ON PANEL and he created a infinite space and numerous dimensions, which is above what Mundus did, and he is below Mephisto since his powers were given by Satannish which is equal to Mephisto.
I can show you instances of Mephisto losing to the Marvel Earth heroes and none of those retconned feats would matter. Also those are previous and past events you are talking about I know he gave SS and Dr. Doom trouble but that wasn`t current Mephisto who easily lost to the weaker female Ghost Rider in his own realm and Ghost Rider fans have agreed with me that Dante is on GR`s level. Mundus created a dimension filled with stars and Mephisto is not consistent he`s lost to demons lower than him such as Black Heart also there are many Marvel characters who have created cosmos. Where are Mephisto`s feats for creating life, stars and dimensions? Your only powerscaling at this point and by your logic Beyonder would be the same your not accepting the fact that they have been retconned.
I can show you instances of Mephisto losing to the Marvel Earth heroes and none of those retconned feats would matter. Also those are previous and past events you are talking about I know he gave SS and Dr. Doom trouble but that wasn`t current Mephisto who easily lost to the weaker female Ghost Rider in his own realm and Ghost Rider fans have agreed with me that Dante is on GR`s level. Mundus created a dimension filled with stars and Mephisto is not consistent he`s lost to demons lower than him such as Black Heart also there are many Marvel characters who have created cosmos. Where are Mephisto`s feats for creating life, stars and dimensions? Your only powerscaling at this point and by your logic Beyonder would be the same your not accepting the fact that they have been retconned.
And I can show some of them like Dr.Doom taking blasts from Celestials and from The Watcher, as well damaging them, Silver Surfer fighting beings that are embodiments of entire universes, like I said, it's not that that simple, and if my memory doesn't fail, CadenceV2, which is one of the most knowledgeable people of Ghost Rider almost all the time disagreed with you about Ghost Rider vs Dante.
Ghost Rider was always above Mephisto in power, so much that Mephisto even needed to depower depower Zarathos in first time:
Gallery
And Black Heart was never on Mephisto level, he only defeat him when he had all the power of Hell, on normal circumstances, he would get stomped just like this:
Gallery
And is a valid power scaling, do you liking or not.
I can show you instances of Mephisto losing to the Marvel Earth heroes and none of those retconned feats would matter. Also those are previous and past events you are talking about I know he gave SS and Dr. Doom trouble but that wasn`t current Mephisto who easily lost to the weaker female Ghost Rider in his own realm and Ghost Rider fans have agreed with me that Dante is on GR`s level. Mundus created a dimension filled with stars and Mephisto is not consistent he`s lost to demons lower than him such as Black Heart also there are many Marvel characters who have created cosmos. Where are Mephisto`s feats for creating life, stars and dimensions? Your only powerscaling at this point and by your logic Beyonder would be the same your not accepting the fact that they have been retconned.
And I can show some of them like Dr.Doom taking blasts from Celestials and from The Watcher, as well damaging them, Silver Surfer fighting beings that are embodiments of entire universes, like I said, it's not that that simple, and if my memory doesn't fail, CadenceV2, which is one of the most knowledgeable people of Ghost Rider almost all the time disagreed with you about Ghost Rider vs Dante.
Ghost Rider was always above Mephisto in power, so much that Mephisto even needed to depower depower Zarathos in first time:
Gallery
And Black Heart was never on Mephisto level, he only defeat him when he had all the power of Hell, on normal circumstances, he would get stomped just like this:
Gallery
And is a valid power scaling, do you liking or not.
Mephisto has been hurt by Zarathos and you ignored the fact that Black Heart has challenged Mephisto before also Black Panther, Daredevil, Thor, Hulk and other Marvel Heroes have done the same. Me and CadenceV2 have debated before but he played favorites if your not aware he thought Dante out of all people couldn`t beat Ghost Rider but Yusuke can and I have debated with other GR experts before. Another thing is, your ignoring the fact that this makes Mephisto very inconsistent and you still haven`t shown what he can do that puts him above Mundus so the power-scaling is false when you have a character that is fluctuating a lot of the times. The reason why certain characters haven`t been able to take care of Mephisto like GR has is because they lack the right equipment such as demonic and supernatural weapons. Dante has that, the power, the feats and experience that says he would beat Mephisto, Zarathos, Black Heart, Daimon, Satannish and etc.
Now although you bring up great arguments and your debating is awesome.
Mephisto has been hurt by Zarathos and you ignored the fact that Black Heart has challenged Mephisto before also Black Panther, Daredevil, Thor, Hulk and other Marvel Heroes have done the same. Me and CadenceV2 have debated before but he played favorites if your not aware he thought Dante out of all people couldn`t beat Ghost Rider but Yusuke can and I have debated with other GR experts before. Another thing is, your ignoring the fact that this makes Mephisto very inconsistent and you still haven`t shown what he can do that puts him above Mundus so the power-scaling is false when you have a character that is fluctuating a lot of the times. The reason why certain characters haven`t been able to take care of Mephisto like GR has is because they lack the right equipment such as demonic and supernatural weapons. Dante has that, the power, the feats and experience that says he would beat Mephisto, Zarathos, Black Heart, Daimon, Satannish and etc.
Now although you bring up great arguments and your debating is awesome.
I`ll say this again and one last time:
Classic does not equal current.
When amped by the Hell, Panther had prep, and the own writer of that issue apologize for that IIRC, against Daredevil was one of his first appearances and the same also was able to damage one of other Hell-Lords too, Thor was able to damage Galactus too and Mephisto was mostly holding back since he said something like that to Surfer, Hulk was busted Dimensions apart with just his fists, and just because he have low ones doesn't mean all his career is with just this feats, which you keep ignoring.
I have, three times, and I wanna see them saying that Dante beat Ghost Rider
Also..................
''Dante has that, the power, the feats and experience that says he would beat Mephisto, Zarathos, Black Heart, Daimon, Satannish and etc.''
I really can't believe that, Dr.Strange is more capable than Dante when is about Supernatural powers, yet he failed against all this guys.
And no way in hell Dante beat Satannish, his powers were compared to The Shaper of Worlds himself and there's three occasions that show his superiority to the Odin level beings Surtur and Ymir, Dante is not even touching him, he is not a jobber like Mephisto.
And unless you prove, Classic=Current, nor Mephisto or Loki powers was retconned.
Mephisto has been hurt by Zarathos and you ignored the fact that Black Heart has challenged Mephisto before also Black Panther, Daredevil, Thor, Hulk and other Marvel Heroes have done the same. Me and CadenceV2 have debated before but he played favorites if your not aware he thought Dante out of all people couldn`t beat Ghost Rider but Yusuke can and I have debated with other GR experts before. Another thing is, your ignoring the fact that this makes Mephisto very inconsistent and you still haven`t shown what he can do that puts him above Mundus so the power-scaling is false when you have a character that is fluctuating a lot of the times. The reason why certain characters haven`t been able to take care of Mephisto like GR has is because they lack the right equipment such as demonic and supernatural weapons. Dante has that, the power, the feats and experience that says he would beat Mephisto, Zarathos, Black Heart, Daimon, Satannish and etc.
Now although you bring up great arguments and your debating is awesome.
I`ll say this again and one last time:
Classic does not equal current.
When amped by the Hell, Panther had prep, and the own writer of that issue apologize for that IIRC, against Daredevil was one of his first appearances and the same also was able to damage one of other Hell-Lords too, Thor was able to damage Galactus too and Mephisto was mostly holding back since he said something like that to Surfer, Hulk was busted Dimensions apart with just his fists, and just because he have low ones doesn't mean all his career is with just this feats, which you keep ignoring.
I have, three times, and I wanna see them saying that Dante beat Ghost Rider
Also..................
''Dante has that, the power, the feats and experience that says he would beat Mephisto, Zarathos, Black Heart, Daimon, Satannish and etc.''
I really can't believe that, Dr.Strange is more capable than Dante when is about Supernatural powers, yet he failed against all this guys.
And no way in hell Dante beat Satannish, his powers were compared to The Shaper of Worlds himself and there's three occasions that show his superiority to the Odin level beings Surtur and Ymir, Dante is not even touching him, he is not a jobber like Mephisto.
And unless you prove, Classic=Current, nor Mephisto or Loki powers was retconned.
You keep stating the same thing all over again... He did but it doesn`t change the fact that it happened also and the fact that the Daredevil instance happened furthers this fact. He he has but also has other and lesser Marvel characters another thing is that killemall who is an extremely knowledgeable and talented debater, he also posted context that showed that Galactus wasn`t fully fed and that Mephisto did not hurt him also Mephisto was scared that Galactus would consume his realm this also contradicts with a lot of other things you said. He has but my point remains clear that even Earth Level Heroes have done the same as even the cosmic ones and I`m not ignoring when Mephisto has more lower feats.
You haven`t even posted a single feat that shows him creating stars or a dimension. Mephisto gains power from his realm and the contracts that he makes he has trouble bringing back dead people and to even ruin Peter Parker`s wedding but you have Mundus who can bring back the dead and make the living, and your ignoring not me.
Check the Dante vs Ghost Rider thread. Some agreed or believe that he either stalemates Ghost Rider or at least beats him.
No he hasn`t... Strange has beaten Nightmare who is above Mephisto and he has beaten plenty of Hell Lords a lot of these events have context to them. Dr. Strange also lost to Ghost Rider who used the Penance Stare, see where I`m going with this? Many characters have trouble with Hell Lords because of their lack of the supernatural and this goes back to classic vs current.
Maybe not some of the specific Hell Lords but I was making a point. Nightmare, Dormammu, Surtur and etc would stomp him but not Mephisto, Black Heart or Zarathos. Also Mundus` dimension was almost universal level so it is comparable and Dante beat Hell Lords in the Shin Tensei Megami universe which accounts for a lot so yes, he could compete with Marvel`s best, your going off of power scale.
And I already proven so as I don`t need to do so again since your response is going to be same which tells me that there is no need for me to respond.
You keep stating the same thing all over again... He did but it doesn`t change the fact that it happened also and the fact that the Daredevil instance happened furthers this fact. He he has but also has other and lesser Marvel characters another thing is that killemall who is an extremely knowledgeable and talented debater, he also posted context that showed that Galactus wasn`t fully fed and that Mephisto did not hurt him also Mephisto was scared that Galactus would consume his realm this also contradicts with a lot of other things you said. He has but my point remains clear that even Earth Level Heroes have done the same as even the cosmic ones and I`m not ignoring when Mephisto has more lower feats.
It was one of the first appearances in his comics, he wasn't stabilized yet, just like the Living Tribunal, and even Backheat was an enemy of Deredevil during that time, and you're ignoring a lot of context, Mephisto was afraid after Galactus began absorbing his Dimension, and for each Earth Heroes who fought with Mephisto, I bet I can find at last one superior feat to Dante.
You haven`t even posted a single feat that shows him creating stars or a dimension. Mephisto gains power from his realm and the contracts that he makes he has trouble bringing back dead people and to even ruin Peter Parker`s wedding but you have Mundus who can bring back the dead and make the living, and your ignoring not me.
I posted Lord Nekron doing the same and more, and he's below Mephisto, and it's cute, but Mephisto already brought people from dead without contracts, and it's funny you mention ''One More Day' where he erase the memory of every being on 616, including Cosmic Entities too.
Check the Dante vs Ghost Rider thread. Some agreed or believe that he either stalemates Ghost Rider or at least beats him.
No he hasn`t... Strange has beaten Nightmare who is above Mephisto and he has beaten plenty of Hell Lords a lot of these events have context to them. Dr. Strange also lost to Ghost Rider who used the Penance Stare, see where I`m going with this? Many characters have trouble with Hell Lords because of their lack of the supernatural and this goes back to classic vs current.
Bullshi#t, Strange won the first time, the rest was pretty much on Nightmare's favor and Stephen did stomp The Defenders and The Avengers together with Ghost Rider as a memeber, as well that when he changed of body with Blaze, he was defeating Ghost Rider with just his fists.
Maybe not some of the specific Hell Lords but I was making a point. Nightmare, Dormammu, Surtur and etc would stomp him but not Mephisto, Black Heart or Zarathos. Also Mundus` dimension was almost universal level so it is comparable and Dante beat Hell Lords in the Shin Tensei Megami universe which accounts for a lot so yes, he could compete with Marvel`s best, your going off of power scale.
And so was Lord Nekron's DimensionS, and as far I know that game is non-canon.
And I already proven so as I don`t need to do so again since your response is going to be same which tells me that there is no need for me to respond.
Sure, If you actually did prove something, which you didn't
EOS Naruto means chapter 700 so I'm gonna leave this on the back burner until I've seen everything that has a direct correlation to the "canon" story before I can make an accurate decision and that I'm gonna be using the last feats as soon as it gets translated(subbed) but word around the street is that toneri(the villain naruto fights) is moon lvl in dc.
As of right now he could potentially stop at 1 due to Freddy being nigh unbeatable in his own realm.
Healing factor: both have great regenerative capabilities.
Durability-Hulk has better durability.
Strenght-Hulk is stronger physically this is fact no one's debating that at least I don't think they are(lol).
Speed-Hulk is a slow brick who could not tag Dante if he was missing his entire right leg with solely his base speed not mention he has time manipulation and transformations that amp stats.
Hax-Hulk has no such attribute he is a brute who relies heavily on overpowering his opponent, but Dante on the other hand has blade called yamamoto that can cut through space basically ignoring durability this plays a big role in Hulk's overall downfall.
In short this comes down to Dante's superior stats of speed, haxxx, and intelligence overpowering the dumb slow brick(hulk).
@gokuss4z: I do agree dante is overrated\wanked but even he could beat Hulk O_o c'mon also it does not matter how impressive it was or was not because the ability stated supersedes the feats shown especially if it has enough showings that don't totally discredit\hyperbolize the initial statement....that's like saying an omnipotent only teleported so therefore that's all there capable of.
You know, I once thought that Supes would beat Dante, but after looking at this thread, Dante would definitely beat Supes. Oh and Dante wrecks Ghost Rider.
@vintage_spiderman: But Hulk has also Punched through a time storm.I just don't think Dante has the necessary power to put Hulk down permanently.
Weaker characters have hurt Hulk many times and Dante certainly does have the feats to say he can hurt Hulk with his magical weapons which ignore conventional durability.
Dante cannot beat Ghost Rider, but I believe Yuske could, Yuske would also decimate Dante too. Just Sayain.
Yes he can. How? Ghost Rider can be harmed by holy weaponry, magic and another GR in which Dante has access to both of the first two facts. Yusuke`s magic could potentially KO a GR but Dante outclasses Yusuke in every way. He`s faster, more skilled, more hax and etc. How does Yusuke compete with someone who can stop time, create clones of himself, slice through dimensions, create supernovas (Beowulf as said by the authors in the MANUALS which are the handbooks for video games/Lore) and I can keep going...
It seems to me that a lot of people haven`t played a lot of the DMC games they have either played one or two of the games and only can recall some of his feats.
@granitesoldier: I know hulk is stronger than naruto and sasuke but he's definitely slower and lacks versality and numbers so how could he possibly be a bigger threat to Dante?
@vintage_spiderman: Hulk is really not THAT slow. He's outrun explosions and tagged characters of Spider-Man speed. Hulk being slow is a misconception of people who don't follow him very much. Is he Superman speed? No. Does he need to be? No, because neither is Dante.
Hulk's thunderclaps alone would be enough. Rulk hit Hulk with a blow that caused a nuclear mushroom cloud, and basically no-showed it. He put Rulk down with a thunderclap afterward. Dante doesn't have Rulk durability. So even if Hulk finds himself having trouble tagging Dante, the thunderclap is a go-to move. He uses it all the time. And no, it wasn't World Breaker or World War Hulk that did this.
@vintage_spiderman: Hulk is really not THAT slow. He's outrun explosions and tagged characters of Spider-Man speed. Hulk being slow is a misconception of people who don't follow him very much. Is he Superman speed? No. Does he need to be? No, because neither is Dante.
Hulk's thunderclaps alone would be enough. Rulk hit Hulk with a blow that caused a nuclear mushroom cloud, and basically no-showed it. He put Rulk down with a thunderclap afterward. Dante doesn't have Rulk durability. So even if Hulk finds himself having trouble tagging Dante, the thunderclap is a go-to move. He uses it all the time. And no, it wasn't World Breaker or World War Hulk that did this.
In comparison to Dante he is. Dante is already hypersonic+ - lightspeed and he can STOP time itself. Spiderman is nothing compared to Dante who can shoot bullets out of the air, react to lasers consistently throughout his showings, run passed re-entry levels (Mach 25+) and etc.
No they would not. Because Dante has tanked supernova energies (as confirmed in the Lore) from Beowulf who also can Thunderclap and Dante has tanked asteroids, meteorites, lightning, explosions from Mundus and much more another thing is his healing factor has been proven to being better than Wolverine`s, Deadpool`s and even Hulk`s. Dante doesn`t need that level of durability when his healing factor is better and his Devil Trigger form feeds off of magic so the way he functions is more unique than how Rulk functions, and Dante can fly.
Out of curiosity how many of the DMC games have you played and how much do you know of the DMC Lore?
@neongamewave: by solid feats, I feel Yuske is faster, more skilled, and over all more powerful. A unsupported statement of super nova like attack is as bad as a unsupportive claim that Ameritsu fire crap from Naruto burns hotter than the sun but takes many seconds to burn up a single person? It's BS.
Anyway I know your stance on DMC as you known mine on GR and Yuske. I played all four games and found them lacking.
@neongamewave: by solid feats, I feel Yuske is faster, more skilled, and over all more powerful. A unsupported statement of super nova like attack is as bad as a unsupportive claim that Ameritsu fire crap from Naruto burns hotter than the sun but takes many seconds to burn up a single person? It's BS.
Anyway I know your stance on DMC as you known mine on GR and Yuske. I played all four games and found them lacking.
By your opinion but by facts you are incorrect. Dante has been entering re-entry speeds, keeping up with hypersonic teleporters since DMC3 and Vergil was as impressive as Hei. Not true it is said by the author/creators so it is true and it is a small concentrated supernova which is believable in the DMC universe. Dante is far more skilled with weapons he instantly masters and he`s more creative also Yusuke may seem more powerful because of stats and raw power but Dante has displayed more. That`s Naruto not DMC.... That is hyperbole for sure but there`s no evidence to say DMC`s case is the same.
And I have question how is Yusuke getting through something he can`t touch (Doppelganger)?
@vintage_spiderman: while that sounds good to a fan, it still shows the written statement of it is hyperbole, just as the Super Nova force Beuwolf attacks are.
@neongamewave: Dante is barely high tier from solid feats. Your not changing my opponion of it now anymore than DMC debaters have tried way back.
The only hax Dante has that is worth debating is the Time Stop Quicksikver, and that's a special gear he ONLY had in one game, hardly standard.
Again that is something you have yet not proven. Fair enough but your not saying anything new or of value that would validate your position which is why I question it and I wonder how much you actually know.
It is standard for him lol. He absorbed it into his soul and he has Bangle of Time if you want to argue that it is non-canon even though it has a Lore and a story element then he has Chrono Heart which also affects time by its own dilation. Dante has more hax gears such as Royal Guard which heals him, reflects, energy, physical and fast paced attacks back at the opposition with extra times the force and it grants him Dreadnaught form. He has Doppelganger which is invulnerable to harm and it has all of his abilities, and Cerberus should also count since its way colder than typical ice.
So how does Yusuke win when you didn`t even respond or counter my points?
Not true it is said by the author/creators so it is true and it is a small concentrated supernova which is believable in the DMC universe.
Nothing never happened on that level throughout the series so its false.
That doesn`t mean the author is not credible though if they stated that it is supernova level then it is its not like Amaterasu especially since its concentrated supernatural energy. And your bias is very clear, so I would think your logic is very false....
@neongamewave: Dante is barely high tier from solid feats. Your not changing my opponion of it now anymore than DMC debaters have tried way back.
The only hax Dante has that is worth debating is the Time Stop Quicksikver, and that's a special gear he ONLY had in one game, hardly standard.
Again that is something you have yet not proven. Fair enough but your not saying anything new or of value that would validate your position which is why I question it and I wonder how much you actually know.
It is standard for him lol. He absorbed it into his soul and he has Bangle of Time if you want to argue that it is non-canon even though it has a Lore and a story element then he has Chrono Heart which also affects time by its own dilation. Dante has more hax gears such as Royal Guard which heals him, reflects, energy, physical and fast paced attacks back at the opposition with extra times the force and it grants him Dreadnaught form. He has Doppelganger which is invulnerable to harm and it has all of his abilities, and Cerberus should also count since its way colder than typical ice.
So how does Yusuke win when you didn`t even respond or counter my points?
Look dude, I can write 5 pages why Dante feats are over wanked, hard to quantify, and simply why Yusuke would stomp Dante's face. Fact is other than the whole Quicksilver argument or Dante needs his borther's sword argument for one lucky Dimension cut, there is nothing he can really do. Dante use of quicksilver is a p!$$ poor argument in itself as it is NOT STANDARD gear at all. if it was he would have start the game with it, and would have kept it in the anime, books, and other 3 games which he didnt. But Dante Fanboys know their character cannot win without against half the foes he fights on the vs forum. Its sad.
@neongamewave: Dante is barely high tier from solid feats. Your not changing my opponion of it now anymore than DMC debaters have tried way back.
The only hax Dante has that is worth debating is the Time Stop Quicksikver, and that's a special gear he ONLY had in one game, hardly standard.
Again that is something you have yet not proven. Fair enough but your not saying anything new or of value that would validate your position which is why I question it and I wonder how much you actually know.
It is standard for him lol. He absorbed it into his soul and he has Bangle of Time if you want to argue that it is non-canon even though it has a Lore and a story element then he has Chrono Heart which also affects time by its own dilation. Dante has more hax gears such as Royal Guard which heals him, reflects, energy, physical and fast paced attacks back at the opposition with extra times the force and it grants him Dreadnaught form. He has Doppelganger which is invulnerable to harm and it has all of his abilities, and Cerberus should also count since its way colder than typical ice.
So how does Yusuke win when you didn`t even respond or counter my points?
Look dude, I can write 5 pages why Dante feats are over wanked, hard to quantify, and simply why Yusuke would stomp Dante's face. Fact is other than the whole Quicksilver argument or Dante needs his borther's sword argument for one lucky Dimension cut, there is nothing he can really do. Dante use of quicksilver is a p!$$ poor argument in itself as it is NOT STANDARD gear at all. if it was he would have start the game with it, and would have kept it in the anime, books, and other 3 games which he didnt. But Dante Fanboys know their character cannot win without against half the foes he fights on the vs forum. Its sad.
You could but it wouldn`t prove a thing it would only show the bias on your part since you wouldn`t be the first or the last to try to degrade Dante. Which you still haven`t proven and I am not convinced also what does this have to do with countering my points again? The Quicksilver argument is valid as its an ability that is apart of Dante`s power set and the fact that you cannot deal with that fact shows your level of bias also what are you talking about?? Dante doesn`t need Yamato his swords Rebellion and Force Edge can kill Yusuke they have the damage output to say they can kill him and their not conventional weapons their magically enhanced so it would go through his durability also Yusuke`s piercing damage durability isn`t that good... I could easily point out several instances and your argument is very poor, predictable and misguided. The reason why he didn` have that ability at the beginning is because he fought Geryon the Timesteed later in the story and in the anime why would he use it if he doesn`t need it? And the reason why he did not have it in DMC4, DMC2 and DMC1 is because they were made in different time periods also the developers confirmed that because of gameplay mechanics they restricted some of Dante`s abilities which is why Nero was introduced in DMC4 also when your talking about a composite Dante or game character in general you wouldn`t leave out a single ability especially one with a canon cutscene.
So again how does Yusuke win and how much do you really know about Dante?
@neongamewave: look bro to bro, I respect ya on other things in the past, but I always have and always will think your bias for Dante is as strong as my own for Ghost Rider.
I have had this talk with ya before and not doing so again.
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