Daken vs Winter Soldier

Daken vs Winter Soldier

Gallery

Location: Baxter Building

Rules

• Both morals on(in character)
• Standard equipment
• Time Limit: 15 minutes
• Win by K.O. only
• No bystanders
• Not allowed to leave battlefield arena
• Starting Distance: 6 feet

What happens when the time limit runs out?

Daken should win this because of the starting distance.

daken

Daken.

This is almost spite against Bucky.. The pheromones should kick in almost instantly with that starting distance.

That and the only possible way for Bucky to win is with a knockout punch with his bionic arm. Daken could have any number of ways to bleed him 'til he passes out.

Bucky is a beast lately. I have to give him props.

He had Wolverine on the ropes in the latest issue of Winter Soldier. Got the drop on Logan while being hunted by him, riddled him with bullets, then while Logan's stitching himself back together walks up to him with a naked blade ready to carve from him a pound of flesh.

Wolverine was essentially saved by Hawkeye's intervention. Can't wait for next issue, as WS goes after Daredevil while Wolverine moves to stop him ...

WS has a hell of a chance against Daken if given the proper scenario. This scenario is set up to see him die pretty much though.

Daken definitely.

@Soothing_Sounds said:

What happens when the time limit runs out?

They both die.

@gunmetalgrey said:

This is almost spite against Bucky.. The pheromones should kick in almost instantly with that starting distance.

That and the only possible way for Bucky to win is with a knockout punch with his bionic arm. Daken could have any number of ways to bleed him 'til he passes out.

But Daken took some shots from the Thing. Bucky ain't knocking him out. Daken wins this.

@madrid_san: @gunmetalgrey: What if I made their physical abilities the same?

Than it is not truely a fight between WS and Daken. Maybe change the distance? That would give WS a better chance but I honestly think he is outmatched either way.

Daken should win,,the setting favors him well,,but in all fairness if you changed the starting distance and stipulations regarding leaving the small space allotted this could go in buckys favor,,plus his bionic arm could score a knockout

He is not knocking out Daken. He took several hits from Thing and he was still consious.

@madrid_san said:

He is not knocking out Daken. He took several hits from Thing and he was still consious.

He took a hit from the Thing. One face smash from a very pissed off one. Unless they had another encounter I don't know about.

Online Now I didn't remember if it was one or 2 but regardless he took a hit from Thing so Bucky doesn't have it in him to KO Daken especially with a one shot

@god_spawn: Would it be a fairer battle to make both opponent's physical attributes the same?

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Bucky is a beast lately. I have to give him props.

He had Wolverine on the ropes in the latest issue of Winter Soldier. Got the drop on Logan while being hunted by him, riddled him with bullets, then while Logan's stitching himself back together walks up to him with a naked blade ready to carve from him a pound of flesh.

Wolverine was essentially saved by Hawkeye's intervention. Can't wait for next issue, as WS goes after Daredevil while Wolverine moves to stop him ...

WS has a hell of a chance against Daken if given the proper scenario. This scenario is set up to see him die pretty much though.

Daken definitely.

@xxxddd:

I wouuld like to build off of your post Super Soldier if you do not mind. I will give my input as it seems I am the Bucky expert. My credentials? See my respect thread for him which I recently updated.

http://www.comicvine.com/bucky-barnes/29-40470/bucky-barnes-respect-thread/92-662398/

Now for my 2 cents on the topic. Without bias and putting my credibility on the line as a debater here.

First, here is this topic done in multiple different scenarios:

http://www.google.com/search?q=daken+vs+bucky&rlz=1C1SKPC_enUS344US344&aq=f&oq=daken+vs+bucky&sugexp=chrome,mod=0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&rlz=1C1SKPC_enUS344US344&q=+site:comicvine.com+daken+vs+bucky&sa=X&ei=3baVUOLWJuaeiQKO-4DoBA&ved=0CDYQrQIwAQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=370f63a028220be6&bpcl=37189454&biw=1280&bih=685

I have debated and posted here where I had believed that Daken takes a majority against Bucky.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/captain-americabucky-vs-wolverinedaken/684467/?page=2

Since then I have changed my opinion on the matter. I believe depending on the scenario of a fight set up, Bucky could actually beat Daken with prep and if he is not holding back.

In this scenario for instance he will lose.

This scenario:

They start off too close and Bucky has nothing he can use against Daken pheromones. Bucky will lose this fight. But according to some users, they think of it as a spite. I do not think it will be a spite and I think Bucky will actually do fairly well.

@gunmetalgrey said:

This is almost spite against Bucky.. The pheromones should kick in almost instantly with that starting distance.

That and the only possible way for Bucky to win is with a knockout punch with his bionic arm. Daken could have any number of ways to bleed him 'til he passes out.

Why it isn't a spite. Due to these two showings:

1. Bucky fought against Iron Hand while being drugged and he was hallucinating. He then proceeded to fight against Baron Zemo Jr who had a super powered exoskeleton while still being drugged.

Baron Zemo was prepped for this fight, had traps and a power suit. Bucky was also drugged and was hallucinating. Bucky still bests him in combat.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/CA_609_018.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/CA_609_022.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/CA_609_023.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/CA_609_027.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/CA_609_029.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/CA_609_030.jpg

Zemo even had prep and traps set up for Bucky and Bucky got Zemo in a position of mercy. Yes, Bucky ends up losing because Zemo cheated, but Bucky is obviously holding back and pretty much won. He could have pounded Zemo's face with is metal arm or shot him in the head. Which takes me to my next part.

So the pheromones will cause Bucky to lose, but would it be a spite? I do not believe so. I think Bucky would still be able to fight against Daken and defend himself with his superhuman arm. His arm is capable of many superhuman feats and he uses to to defend himself where his durability is vulnerable.

So I will say Bucky losses in this scenario.

Scenario with prep and with their gear and good start distance.

In this kind of scenario, I use to give Daken the majority due to pheromones and I still do in a random encounter. But without pheromones and with their gear Bucky will take it. Even with pheromones and the slightest amount of prep I think Bucky will take it. Here is what his gear can do.

EQUIPMENT
Mechanical arm:

Capable of punching through metal, the narrator says the whole robot is made of metal:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/ca-16-016.jpg

Bucky slices AK-47 in half with arm throwing the shield:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/CaptainAmerica046Zone-Avengerpg19.jpg

Not impressive enough? Lets Bucky cut through Robots Leg using shield, not at the joint area either:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60545/2097751-prv8580_pg3.jpg

Rips through metal easily:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/ca-23-003.jpg

Arm can be detached and controlled. Has smart enough AI to navigate through SHIELD headquarters and free Bucky

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/CA_33_DCP_0005.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/CA_33_DCP_0007.jpg

Capable of releasing an EMP to destroy electronics.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/CA_33_DCP_0015.jpg

Rips through bottom of SHIELD car.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/13.jpg

SHIELD Special Handgun:

As of San Diego Comic Con 2012, I got a chance to hang out with Steve Epting, the man that drew Captain America for 8 years and handled the majority of Bucky's run. He confirmed with me that the handgun is not a luger. It is a modified version of Nick Fury's handgun. He went down the line of saying "why would I give Bucky a german handgun? That just doesn't make sense."

Although never revealed, Bucky’s handgun resembles that of Nick Fury’s special handgun. It is most likely not a luger like everyone suspects:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60545/2113996-fx19650lg.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60545/2114003-captain_america_vol_5_36_textless.jpg

Mockingbird comments on Lugers kick:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/new_avengers_56_005.jpg

Handgun winds Ares giving Bucky enough time to escape:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/AresDurability02.jpg

Handgun can be equipped with explosive rounds strong enough to blow up an Assault rifle into pieces:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/WinterSoldier04014.jpg

handgun can only be used by Bucky. Explodes otherwise:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/WinterSoldier04016.jpg

Captain America Suit

Bullet proof and impact resistant:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/024.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/025.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/CA_36_DCP06.jpg

Captain America Shield

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_America's_shield

http://marvel.wikia.com/Captain_America's_Shield

Winter Soldier Suit

Impact resistant, security jammers and most likely bullet proof as well:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/17.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/WinterSoldier04012.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/Winter-Soldier-002-08.jpg

First of all, every feat you see in my respect thread is Bucky holding back. That is him with morals and against opponents that can die. Bucky is a smart tactician. If he fought Daken with the slightest prep, he would find ways to neutralize his pheromones affects and stealthy come around Daken's senses like he has to Wolverine on a few occasions.It is in Bucky's nature to due these kinds of things, this is him in character and he says so himself in the scans below, that this is what he's good at and this is what he does.

Bucky with prep outsmarts Wolverine (with Adamantium) and nearly beats him to death if it wasn’t for the Adamantium and healing factor. Good thing he had backup or Wolverine would have killed him.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-009.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-010.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-011.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-012.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-013.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-014.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-015.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-016.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-017.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-018.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-019.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-020.jpg

This encounter is still Bucky with morals. This is him with his memories. He didn't want to harm Wolverine more than he has here.

Bucky leads Wolverine on a random dead trail and then jumps him from the side. He once again overcomes Wolverines senses. The fight is interpreted when Clint Barton fires and arrow, but Bucky cuts the arrow in half in midair. I don't know if he is brainwashed, but I will update this post when I find out. I'm sure he isn't, but he's acting and pretending. Notable feat is that he cut the arrow with his none mechanical hand showing that he can catch Clint's arrows without his mechanical arm.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Clint%20Barton%20Wolverine%20and%20Daredevil/WinterSolider-Zone-002.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Clint%20Barton%20Wolverine%20and%20Daredevil/WinterSolider-Zone-003.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Clint%20Barton%20Wolverine%20and%20Daredevil/WinterSolider-Zone-004.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Clint%20Barton%20Wolverine%20and%20Daredevil/WinterSolider-Zone-009.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Clint%20Barton%20Wolverine%20and%20Daredevil/WinterSolider-Zone-010.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Clint%20Barton%20Wolverine%20and%20Daredevil/WinterSolider-Zone-015.jpg

Real quick, in Wolverine's defense this is not a low durability showing for him. Remember Bucky's handgun is not a normal handgun. It was capable of winding Ares. Mocking bird made comment on its kick meaning that it is some sort of high velocity rounds. So Wolverine taking 6 of those hits isn't a low showing at all. But next is Wolverine's comment to Clint on how Bucky has been holding back all this time.

So in this scenario, I think Bucky would defeat Daken with his gear. Daken might have those pheromones and healing factor, but Bucky has sleeping gas, explosive rounds, high velocity rounds and his mechanical arm. If Bucky is not holding back and shot a few explosive rounds into Daken then Daken would probably be KOed.

Conclusion

So I just wanted to add my 2 cents in on different scenarios. The overall majority of the time Daken will defeat Bucky due to pheromones, but without pheromones or a little prep Bucky is fully capable of taking a majority over Daken and overcoming Daken's advantages.

Daken. He doesn't even need his pheromones and hardly uses them anyway.

@god_spawn said:

Daken. He doesn't even need his pheromones and hardly uses them anyway.

In this scenario I agree with you. What about with equipment and a little prep or no prep without pheromones? Without pheromones, I think their fight will go a lot like Frank Castle's fight with him except Daken won't get as many hits, Bucky's arm will block a lot of his slashes and Bucky's gear is more deadly than Frank's because of the HG and arm. I think Bucky will do 2 times better than Frank did and get a KO on Daken if he landed an explosive round and hit him with with his mechanical arm.

@SlimJ87D: Daken was horrendously underwritten against Castle so that is a bad measure in comparison, but the end result with Daken being batter would still be the same though. With a bit of prep, sure Bucky could win. He has the gear and his best bets are explosives. Sleep or nerve gases are useless against the Wolverines so that is something you should take out though. Bucky and Daken have a comparable level of skill, both are incredibly intelligent in combat and both have aces that will make differences. Bucky has the arm for blocking, strong blows and electric shock and explosives for game changers and KO's while Daken has his port slash technique which could end Bucky before he blinks.

@SlimJ87D: I still think Wolverine is a bit superior to Daken as Steve is to Bucky. So Logan marginally unless it's an all out battle which would be given to Daken due to pheromones and port slash.

.

@SlimJ87D: I still think Wolverine is a bit superior to Daken as Steve is to Bucky. So Logan marginally unless it's an all out battle which would be given to Daken due to pheromones and port slash.

@SlimJ87D: No prob, bro.

@SlimJ87D: No prob, bro.

@SlimJ87D: Easily a top tier. But I think the same could be said for Steve and Bucky too. I feel at this point Bucky has more room to grow while Steve doesn't and Bucky has really done nothing but grow over the years. They had to expand Wolverine recently by giving knowledge on how to defeat even aliens considering how he dealt with Kid Gladiator. Unless Steve gets something like that, Bucky has the potential to pass him up.

I'm going to have to give it to Daken. As much as I love Winter Soldier, I'm not going to back him up because of it. I will give Winter Soldier that he has had a severe amount of training, older than Daken if I am correct considering he killed his birth mother. Resulting from the distance he could get some shots, some combo kicks, but Daken's pharamones would screw with him, and Daken ends up winning.

@SlimJ87D: Fair enough.

@SlimJ87D: Thank you for your input.

Daken

Bump

Pheromone manipulation ftw.

Without would be a more interesting and closer battle.